Willie's Comments on RBY and DeSanto match

[crockster]

Enjoy Willie Saylor"s comments on RBY and his match with DeSanto he posted just on Rofkin tonight. Some honest commentary, which I happen to agree with.
"
"133 -


"As far as the wrestling itself I thought it was all RBY. The injury occurred so early that it's difficult to know if this is a match that replicates itself or if DeSanto was 'off' the entire time thereafter. But I'll say this - these two guys WILL get in that position again. Watch Daton-Gilman, who always get in the head-to-feet position. Watch Bull-Cenzo, who always end up in upper body. RBY will find that angle and cradle again. It wasn't coincidence that he found it twice this dual. Furthermore, I don't think it's entirely a match up thing. It is in the sense that DeSanto shoots so often which provides RBY that many more opportunities in that position. But RBY is just flat out amazing at chasing the corner to the cradle position. He did a very similar thing to Ridge Lovett last week."


"I'll go as far as saying RBY will be my pick next time they hit. I'll also say RBY is a finalist contender now."

"Andrew Spey (Flo) said he's not counting the RBY-DeSanto match which is mind boggling."

 

[Hotshoe]

I keep hearing HR whine about trying to intentionally hurt AD, that RBY grabbed his toes. Well, I don't exact know how one grabs the toe from the side of the foot. Watch the video, he grabs the side of the foot with his left hand while then trying to pull the leg out. That is not an illegal move. So people are now saying you cannot pull on a leg to maneuver an opponent?

 

[slushhead]

I keep hearing HR whine about trying to intentionally hurt AD, that RBY grabbed his toes. Well, I don't exact know how one grabs the toe from the side of the foot. Watch the video, he grabs the side of the foot with his left hand while then trying to pull the leg out. That is not an illegal move. So people are now saying you cannot pull on a leg to maneuver an opponent?

I thought his grab of the foot, at one critical moment in the sequence, was rather toecentric, but if you say you're not seeing it, I'll look again when I get a chance. I'm reserving comment on the legality or intent, as I'd just be speculating.

 

[slushhead]

Enjoy Willie Saylor"s comments on RBY and his match with DeSanto he posted just on Rofkin tonight. Some honest commentary, which I happen to agree with.
"
"133 -


"As far as the wrestling itself I thought it was all RBY. The injury occurred so early that it's difficult to know if this is a match that replicates itself or if DeSanto was 'off' the entire time thereafter. But I'll say this - these two guys WILL get in that position again. Watch Daton-Gilman, who always get in the head-to-feet position. Watch Bull-Cenzo, who always end up in upper body. RBY will find that angle and cradle again. It wasn't coincidence that he found it twice this dual. Furthermore, I don't think it's entirely a match up thing. It is in the sense that DeSanto shoots so often which provides RBY that many more opportunities in that position. But RBY is just flat out amazing at chasing the corner to the cradle position. He did a very similar thing to Ridge Lovett last week."


"I'll go as far as saying RBY will be my pick next time they hit. I'll also say RBY is a finalist contender now."

"Andrew Spey (Flo) said he's not counting the RBY-DeSanto match which is mind boggling."

Between RBY and Gross, methinks DeSanto is going to have to focus on some cradle training this next month.

 

[Lyons212]

I keep hearing HR whine about trying to intentionally hurt AD, that RBY grabbed his toes. Well, I don't exact know how one grabs the toe from the side of the foot. Watch the video, he grabs the side of the foot with his left hand while then trying to pull the leg out. That is not an illegal move. So people are now saying you cannot pull on a leg to maneuver an opponent?

Intentionally trying to hurt DeSanto? Given his background and history, I guess they don't see the irony in that statement on HR.

 

[El-Jefe]

The first cradle had 3 distinct steps:
1. RBY turned the foot with his left hand. The grip was on the side but a little high, and fans often generalize anatomy.
2. RBY pulled the foot with both hands. Right hand was around the ankle.
3. RBY released the foot with both hands and locked the cradle.

Ref had a very good angle of the entire sequence and did not stop the action at Step 1 or at Step 2. He stopped action only during the cradle itself -- which would've been the least painful/damaging step, with DeSanto's foot released and off the mat.

The 2nd cradle never got below the knee.

Two other points:

Willie is right -- this will happen again. The 1-arm stance took away all of DeSanto's offense except the sweep single at RBY's right leg. DeSanto did try a throw-by which RBY out-quicked for a takedown. RBY's defense leaves no other attack points. One might call this genius coaching, except we all know Cael Can't Coach.

Also, watch the background at 1:30 video time -- over RBY's shoulder is dude in a red hoodie with a glorious Joe Dirt mullet.

 

[86PSUPaul]

Quick question on RBY, after his match he almost seemed to take a victory lap around to a shared entrance where AD was leaving too. Was that the regular route for our wrestlers, I don’t remember them showing any other wrestlers leaving like that I remember. He was pumped up!
Did our wrestlers have that long route all day and was it a shared entrance for both teams? Seems strange.

 

[Hotshoe]

The first cradle had 3 distinct steps:
1. RBY turned the foot with his left hand. The grip was on the side but a little high, and fans often generalize anatomy.
2. RBY pulled the foot with both hands. Right hand was around the ankle.
3. RBY released the foot with both hands and locked the cradle.

Ref had a very good angle of the entire sequence and did not stop the action at Step 1 or at Step 2. He stopped action only during the cradle itself -- which would've been the least painful/damaging step, with DeSanto's foot released and off the mat.

The 2nd cradle never got below the knee.

Two other points:

Willie is right -- this will happen again. The 1-arm stance took away all of DeSanto's offense except the sweep single at RBY's right leg. DeSanto did try a throw-by which RBY out-quicked for a takedown. RBY's defense leaves no other attack points. One might call this genius coaching, except we all know Cael Can't Coach.

Also, watch the background at 1:30 video time -- over RBY's shoulder is dude in a red hoodie with a glorious Joe Dirt mullet.

Thank you. I've watched this film a minimum of 20 times and slowed it down on my tv. Toes are at the end of the foot and his hand never goes there. Like you said, he grabs the side of the foot.

 

[El-Jefe]

If you look into the tunnel, you'll see the Iowa guys going into one doorway and RBY going into the other.

Guessing that RBY wanted to hit the locker room bike before cooling down. The match itself was much shorter than the interruptions.

 

[El-Jefe]

Thank you. I've watched this film a minimum of 20 times and slowed it down on my tv. Toes are at the end of the foot and his hand never goes there. Like you said, he grabs the side of the foot.

It was close -- almost as close as Bo pinning himself with the spladle.

 

[4INSBU]

It was close -- almost as close as Bo pinning himself with the spladle.

View embedded media

That never gets old

 

[4INSBU]

I keep hearing HR whine about trying to intentionally hurt AD, that RBY grabbed his toes. Well, I don't exact know how one grabs the toe from the side of the foot. Watch the video, he grabs the side of the foot with his left hand while then trying to pull the leg out. That is not an illegal move. So people are now saying you cannot pull on a leg to maneuver an opponent?

Question from non-technical wrestling fan - Why would grabbing the toes be bad or illegal?

 

[Hotshoe]

Question from non-technical wrestling fan - Why would grabbing the toes be bad or illegal?

It's about putting a wrestler in "dangerous or near dangerous" position. RBY didn't do that. He simply pulled on the foot to gain access to the leg. Wrestlers grab feet and toes all the time. Many times it leads to stalemates.

 

[Hotshoe]

It was close -- almost as close as Bo pinning himself with the spladle.

View embedded media

Beautiful. Better find.

 

[1032004]

Question from non-technical wrestling fan - Why would grabbing the toes be bad or illegal?

No one cares about grabbing toes. The debate is that what is illegal is pulling something “away from the normal range of motion.” I don’t think what RBY did was illegal, but I think it caused the injury.

 

[PSU Mike]

Question from non-technical wrestling fan - Why would grabbing the toes be bad or illegal?

Nothing per se. But the foot can essentially act as a lever, and a force in the wrong direction applied at the toes yields more torque than if applied mid-foot.

 

[PSU Mike]

A few questions/comments around the cast discussed in this thread. Did RBY choose down against Lovett? For a guy with a fresh knee tweak, what position would generally best protect it until it felt a little better? If there were a position that you choose other than the best position to protect it, what criteria would make you select that position?

 

[jrd23psu]

I keep hearing HR whine about trying to intentionally hurt AD, that RBY grabbed his toes. Well, I don't exact know how one grabs the toe from the side of the foot. Watch the video, he grabs the side of the foot with his left hand while then trying to pull the leg out. That is not an illegal move. So people are now saying you cannot pull on a leg to maneuver an opponent?

The real crybabies are HR who cannot fathom their guy got worked. Iowa fans think anything a guy does that neutralizes what their guy does is unfair.

 

[nitlion6]

At the end of this whole discussion is this little tidbit. DeSanto shows no distress in either sequence until cradles are locked and he is being put to his back.
It is obvious, RBY had the cradle too tight. Next thing you know on HR someone will explain how RBY continously applying that cradle too tight making DeSanto cry out, "stop it, stop it, it's too tight" should be called stalling on RBY.

 

[Callthestall]

When I watched live, I yelled out , not once but twice. "He cried out".
I still think that's what he did.
Question, If he was on his back can ref still award the 4 for stopped action before nearfall points are actually awarded?
I thought High school put that on books a couple of years ago.

 

[WildTurk]

There has been a lot more cry babies here than on HR as of late. JMO

 

[Chickenman Testa]

There has been a lot more cry babies here than on HR as of late. JMO

No one cries as bad as Ironbird - not even a 13 year old girl who can’t go to the Taylor Swift concert

 

[Ski]

There has been a lot more cry babies here than on HR as of late. JMO

You know the old saying, “opinions are like HR, full of assh0les”.

 

[WildTurk]

No one cries as bad as Ironbird - not even a 13 year old girl who can’t go to the Taylor Swift concert

He is pretty brutal. I agree

 

[WildTurk]

You know the old saying, “opinions are like HR, full of assh0les”.

Classy

 

[82bordeaux]

There has been a lot more cry babies here than on HR as of late. JMO

Turk,
What's your definition of "as of late"? There are over 300 posts on the subject spread over 4 or 5 threads on HR. These are partisan boards. The posts are generally partisan.
But the "Ped State" posts and the like over there are beyond crybabies. I'd try to raise my level above Rutgers if I were an Iowa fan rather than wallow with them.

 

[bigs22]

There has been a lot more cry babies here than on HR as of late. JMO

It’s a close race in my opinion. That dual was a board apocalypse. Both places have been bad, but since Friday they’ve been brutal with the whining, excuses, complaints, justifications, name calling, and trolling.

 

[WildTurk]

Turk,
What's your definition of "as of late"? There are over 300 posts on the subject spread over 4 or 5 threads on HR. These are partisan boards. The posts are generally partisan.
But the "Ped State" posts and the like over there are beyond crybabies. I'd try to raise my level above Rutgers if I were an Iowa fan rather than wallow with them.

Crybabies exist on both boards. The Sandusky crap will never go away. Something you just have to deal with. Like I've said time and time again, learn to get a filter for that crap and ignore it.

 

[1032004]

At the end of this whole discussion is this little tidbit. DeSanto shows no distress in either sequence until cradles are locked and he is being put to his back.
It is obvious, RBY had the cradle too tight. Next thing you know on HR someone will explain how RBY continously applying that cradle too tight making DeSanto cry out, "stop it, stop it, it's too tight" should be called stalling on RBY.

This is false particularly on the first one. The whistle was being blown at almost exactly the same time as the cradle being locked up which means he "cried out" prior to it being locked up.

 

[Wilco43]

AD's actions had the appearance of a panic attack. The last time they wrestled it was apparent to me RBY figured AD out by the end of the match. AD knew it and the hype and circumstance of wrestling in that environment was too much. When his worst fears came true he snapped. Anyone can see the kid has some issues. Demonizing either of these kids is just wrong. I believe wrestling is the best sport for developing all the best traits. AD has not only improved as a wrestler and his on mat antics have lessened. I can't imagine how he could get up and go to class today. Everyone needs to get behind this kid.

 

[82bordeaux]

Crybabies exist on both boards. The Sandusky crap will never go away. Something you just have to deal with. Like I've said time and time again, learn to get a filter for that crap and ignore it.

Turk,
I think most of us here are beyond letting the Sandusky crap bother us. But we still shake our heads when we see grown adults throw it around.
I was primarily questioning your opinion that there were more crybabies here than HR(on the RBY/Desanto issue). My math didn't calculate it the same way.

 

[El-Jefe]

Crybabies exist on both boards. The Sandusky crap will never go away. Something you just have to deal with. Like I've said time and time again, learn to get a filter for that crap and ignore it.

A Penn Stater's reaction or non-reaction to Sandusky poo flinging does not change the fact that it is poo flinging.

Some people will always resort to that poo flinging, and it says more about them than us.

 

[Hotshoe]

Defending HR. Is this a joke? Have you seen the posts? Do you have a mod? No. Hey, how is RBY's former teammate? Hear he has the inside scoop on maliciousness and dirty wrestling. Gtfooh.

 

[Flying_Tiger]

There has been a lot more cry babies here than on HR as of late. JMO

 

[82bordeaux]

Defending HR. Is this a joke? Have you seen the posts? Do you have a mod? No. Hey, how is RBY's former teammate? Hear he has the inside scoop on maliciousness and dirty wrestling. Gtfooh.

Exactly when did RBY get the reputation of being a "dirty wrestler"? I don't recall hearing any of that talk before this past weekend. I've always viewed him as a speed and athleticism based wrestler rather than working opponents over. I just don't get where it is coming from.

 

[El-Jefe]

Exactly when did RBY get the reputation of being a "dirty wrestler"? I don't recall hearing any of that talk before this past weekend. I've always viewed him as a speed and athleticism based wrestler rather than working opponents over. I just don't get where it is coming from.

Psychologists call it projection.

 

[Random4598375]

As far as the RBY-DeSanto match goes, there are several things that I believe are true:

* DeSanto wasn't "faking" the injury.
* Nothing RBY did constituted an illegal or PD move, just an unfortunate accident.
* DeSanto was not in any particular danger either time the match was stopped.

The thing that is unfair about what happened is that RBY gets a pinning combination locked up in a position that is clearly no longer dangerous in any way even if DeSanto was hurt earlier in the combination, and the match is stopped anyway. The first time, it seemed like RBY lost at least 4 points and possibly a fall for no real reason. It seems like in that situation, if a wrestler (or coach) wants a match stopped for an injury when there is no head injury and no illegal or potentially dangerous hold involved, it should be an automatic injury default at that point. If the wrestler wants to continue in the match, he should have to fight out of the situation and wait for a break in the action to get treatment for the injury. Obviously, if the injury is a head injury or if the hold is illegal or potentially dangerous, the stoppage has to be immediate, but otherwise, why should it be?

After the second time, obviously DeSanto couldn't continue and did default anyway, so that's the way it turned out in the end, but if he had been able to continue and won by less than 4, the match would have been potentially decided by stopping for an injury where the wrestler was in no danger of further injury but was in gave danger of being turned and losing big points, which seems wrong.

In the end, I think everyone is most concerned about people's health and well-being, so I wish DeSanto all the best to make a full recovery and see him in the B1Gs and NCAAs.

If this has already been beaten to death, I apologize, I haven't been around much this weekend to read all of the aftermath.

 

[Hotshoe]

Exactly when did RBY get the reputation of being a "dirty wrestler"? I don't recall hearing any of that talk before this past weekend. I've always viewed him as a speed and athleticism based wrestler rather than working opponents over. I just don't get where it is coming from.

Ask armbar, he knows. So do the rest obviously. Ya know, it's one think to joke about wrestlers, it another thing to blatantly lie about them and make sh&t up. I edited posts here the other day regarding AD, and they were nothing remotely close to what's being said regarding RBY. There's simply no reason for it.

 

[Hotshoe]

As far as the RBY-DeSanto match goes, there are several things that I believe are true:

* DeSanto wasn't "faking" the injury.
* Nothing RBY did constituted an illegal or PD move, just an unfortunate accident.
* DeSanto was not in any particular danger either time the match was stopped.

The thing that is unfair about what happened is that RBY gets a pinning combination locked up in a position that is clearly no longer dangerous in any way even if DeSanto was hurt earlier in the combination, and the match is stopped anyway. The first time, it seemed like RBY lost at least 4 points and possibly a fall for no real reason. It seems like in that situation, if a wrestler (or coach) wants a match stopped for an injury when there is no head injury and no illegal or potentially dangerous hold involved, it should be an automatic injury default at that point. If the wrestler wants to continue in the match, he should have to fight out of the situation and wait for a break in the action to get treatment for the injury. Obviously, if the injury is a head injury or if the hold is illegal or potentially dangerous, the stoppage has to be immediate, but otherwise, why should it be?

After the second time, obviously DeSanto couldn't continue and did default anyway, so that's the way it turned out in the end, but if he had been able to continue and won by less than 4, the match would have been potentially decided by stopping for an injury where the wrestler was in no danger of further injury but was in gave danger of being turned and losing big points, which seems wrong.

In the end, I think everyone is most concerned about people's health and well-being, so I wish DeSanto all the best to make a full recovery and see him in the B1Gs and NCAAs.

If this has already been beaten to death, I apologize, I haven't been around much this weekend to read all of the aftermath.

Hell no, it isn't finished. I just put a new pair of shoes on this horse. Ride the piss out of it.

 

[Cowbell Man]

Psychologists call it projection.

Or perhaps the handspring kick to the head attempt at NCAA’s. Hard to erase that image and subsequent departure from Drexel.

I’d say it’s less of a dirty wrestler and more of the struggle to deal with adversity and sometimes success.

On the rest of this topic of toes and ankles and illegal or potentially dangerous. At no point did RBY execute an illegal move. In addition, at no point did RBY execute a potentially dangerous move. And exactly what was the injury? Gibbons and Johnson failed to find one, at one point thinking there was an eye poke or head thing. There was no limp exactly 2 steps after the end of match handshake.

The other question about points awarded is somewhat tricky. The ref would have had to decide NF points were imminent to award the points. It appears he did not. Otherwise 2 would be awarded. In HS a tap out injury used to result in an additional point past the number of counts made in the NF position. So a NF 2 would be a 3 and NF 3 would be 4. With the rule changes to NF 2 and NF4 I do not know if that would make 3 and 5 but I suspect the tap out would still apply.