Word out there is that PSU is ruining college wrestling.

[JOESTROSSER]

you think??greatest 6 yr run in NFL history how many rules changes because this team was so damn good!

Patriots 4 super bowls in 5 years with 3 wins was impressive as well. Especially in the salary cap era. They also won 3 in 4 years a little over 10 years before that.

 

[Crusher1950]

Why don’t they say that for Alabama football ?

 

[mcpat]

I get your point but am LMAO that you chose the Steelers. Hahahaha

Not alive in the 70s?

 

[Random4598375]

PSU is revolutionizing college wrestling, not ruining it. They are ruining the Iowa/Gable model. That’s it. Adapt or die.

 

[PAgeologist]

PSU is revolutionizing college wrestling, not ruining it. They are ruining the Iowa/Gable model. That’s it. Adapt or die.

Yep. And TNT are stuck in that model and unable or unwilling to change. Kids realize that practice and prep don't have to be a complete beat down of your body.

With Cael's model, you go into March better prepared, in better health, and with much more energy. Quite honestly, it's not that difficult to figure out. I'm amazed that no other team can come close to replicating it. OK St with the weight cutting. TnT with beating the hell out of everyone and the handfight mindset. And who knows what is going on in Columbus.

If anyone starts to get it, I hope it's ISU or NCST. Anyone that kicks Iowa further down the ladder.

 

[js8793]

i've got no problem. no one seemed worried when iowa was cleaning up decades ago. you want to get better, work harder

this is just not true. there were plenty of people who thought the iowa dynasty was bad for wrestling. we also see it in other sports, especially college football.

 

[AgSurfer]

So PSUs success is ruining the sport? It's seems I have heard these kinds of musings before

Word has it, many educational institutions believe A, B, C,... Grades are stigmatizing the lesser performing student's, and lowering self esteem.

As a result, some institutions are enacting reforms. SATs are being rejected as entry criteria and classes are moving back to pass-fail grades to address these concerns.

I'll choose sit back and watch what happens, with my bowl of popcorn, but to be clear this movie doesn't contain much suspense.

The left's mindset has been creeping into sports for a long time as well. Equality of outcomes for them trumps, equality of opportunity. The illusion of fairness far more important than applauding excellence.

When developing remedies, they are masters at focusing on the symptom's rather than the causes.

Why do I pollute this post with politics? We all need to remain vigilant to the creep that is molding the thinking within even the best of us. The American dream was always built upon opportunity and individual drive and excellence. It should always be recognized, appreciated and applauded. And yes, not everyone can be excellent at every thing. Some people are just plain better. I am accomplished at my work, while at the same time surrounded by armies of people smarter, better, richer and more accomplished. My view, in 99% of the cases they simply earned their success and deserve the rewards.

The cause of PSU being so dominant is plain and simple. It's Cael. The man and his methods. If one is to view PSU as ruining collegiate wrestling, one should first acknowledge the admission that Cael is simply better than everyone else.

Any program or fanbase that believes PSU is ruining the sport is admitting their coach and his program is second tier. The only real remedy is to find someone better than who they have now, or for their current coaches to change the way they go about developing their program. NIL and facilities can help but both address symptoms and not the cause, and ultimately the cause, which is tied back to excellence will win out.

As a PSU fan I am 100% invested in the knowledge that Cael is a once in a several generation manifestation of excellence. This era will end someday and I remain thankful every day that we are basking in greatness that is likely fleeting. Cael will leave someday, and in his wake leave shoes impossible to fill. True, he will also leave behind a legacy that will influence the future in very positive ways for this program as well. An athelete and coaching tree and methods that can be leveraged. A NLWC that will carry forward, Bo's gym, M2 and other manifestations of his vision firm a whole ecosystem that will support PSU going forward. No doubt PSU's program will remain strong for decades to come, but when he iCael s gone, one way or another the pendulum will inexorably swing backwards. How far the pendulum swings is up to the excellence of his successor. Generally, nature can only exist at the extreme upper end of the bell curve for so long.

Admittedly, it will be great for the sport for another program rise to challenge Cael's in the coming years, setting up a powerful and exciting rivalry. Make no mistake however, Cael will adapt to whatever changes made to throttle back PSUs success. Cael is a winner, and winners win no matter the challenge. A legitimate rival will only come if Iowa, tOSU or one of the other program's ups their game, significantly.

Incredible facilities and bags of cash can buy a lot of top talent, many of whom will end up underachieving in an otherwise inferior environment.

I always appreciate the short and concise responses on this forum. 😁

 

[bourbon n blues]

The narrative out there is that PSU is becoming too dominant and that it is hurting the sport.

I disagree, but I have my biases. What say you?

Not for me.🙂🙂😎😎

 

[nitlion6]

this is just not true. there were plenty of people who thought the iowa dynasty was bad for wrestling. we also see it in other sports, especially college football.

College football? Alabama stomps through everybody, instead of whinning about the unfairness of Alabama being better than us Georgia hires Kirby Smart and Kirby does what Nick does. He hires an unbelievable staff, they out recruit, out coach and out do everybody in everything and low and behold Georgia is now king.

If someone wants Penn State to stop dominating college wrestling they need to step up. Until then, Penn State is king, long live the king.

 

[bourbon n blues]

I always appreciate the short and concise responses on this forum. 😁

I turbo mega likes it, nailed it.

 

[bourbon n blues]

PSU is officially a college wrestling dynasty, just like Oklahoma State and Iowa have been at times in the past. Their previous reigns did 'ruin' the sport. Times change, the sport evolves and programs rise and fall.
My hopes going forward are the following:
1) Cael retires in the (far) future with the greatest number of coaching championships all-time
2) Future Iowa reaches current OSU status - basically irrelevant on the national stage. If you want to hear a beaten down fan base that knows it has no hope of a natty read 34 and Counting
3) Sooner rather than later a PSU team obliterates the team scoring record at Nationals (maybe this year - come on Nagao, come to Penn State!)
4) Head Coach Taylor and Associate Head Coaches Brooks and Dake lead PSU to their 35th team title (and then some more for good measure)

 

[82bordeaux]

there were plenty of people who thought the iowa dynasty was bad for wrestling.

It was.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Why don’t they say that for Alabama football ?

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Not alive in the 70s?

Probably an Eagles fan.

 

[KidDagger]

The narrative out there is that PSU is becoming too dominant and that it is hurting the sport.

I disagree, but I have my biases. What say you?

It’s mainly going hurt the smaller programs that spends time and resources developing their best guys only for them to later get poached.. could lead to some smaller programs getting cut in the future.

 

[RB-Old]

When dynasties come up in sports other programs copy them and get better. Look at the coaching trees in the NFL, guys coached for Walsh and then became successful head coaches, now it's happening with Belicheck. Pep Guardiola is the best coach in European Football and his proteges currently lead La Liga, English Premier League (though not for long) and the Championship. Now guys like Mark Hall and Pearsall are at Penn, Cenzo has been at Stanford, Ed Ruth is in Illinois and it will continue to be that way.

The problem is that big programs like Iowa, OSU and Ohio State think they'll figure it out on their own. What are the chances of TnT learning something new when they haven't learned anything in over a decade?

 

[KidDagger]

When dynasties come up in sports other programs copy them and get better. Look at the coaching trees in the NFL, guys coached for Walsh and then became successful head coaches, now it's happening with Belicheck. Pep Guardiola is the best coach in European Football and his proteges currently lead La Liga, English Premier League (though not for long) and the Championship. Now guys like Mark Hall and Pearsall are at Penn, Cenzo has been at Stanford, Ed Ruth is in Illinois and it will continue to be that way.

The problem is that big programs like Iowa, OSU and Ohio State think they'll figure it out on their own. What are the chances of TnT learning something new when they haven't learned anything in over a decade?

The thing with professional sports dynasty is usually there is some sort of salary cap or checks and balances in place..

imagine if all the big market teams were able to get all the best draft picks and spend more money to trade for all the best players on top.. fans of the smaller market teams would probably stop watching that product.

 

[tullfan68]

Patriots 4 super bowls in 5 years with 3 wins was impressive as well. Especially in the salary cap era. They also won 3 in 4 years a little over 10 years before that.

yea but like I said diff rules they play back in the 70s and those rules Steelers would crush them!

 

[mcpat]

The thing with professional sports dynasty is usually there is some sort of salary cap or checks and balances in place..

imagine if all the big market teams were able to get all the best draft picks and spend more money to trade for all the best players on top.. fans of the smaller market teams would probably stop watching that product.

In pro sports, there is salary cap on how much the team can pay. Like a scholarship limit in college sports.

In pro sports, there is no limit to how much the athlete can make on their own through endorsements though. And a NYC athlete is typically going to have a higher profile for endorsements than a Buffalo athlete. Like NIL earnings potential is better at some places than others.

And as an aside, the salary cap in pro sports typically can be exceeded if the franchise is willing to pay a luxury tax to do so.

 

[Split shot]

College football? Alabama stomps through everybody, instead of whinning about the unfairness of Alabama being better than us Georgia hires Kirby Smart and Kirby does what Nick does. He hires an unbelievable staff, they out recruit, out coach and out do everybody in everything and low and behold Georgia is now king.

If someone wants Penn State to stop dominating college wrestling they need to step up. Until then, Penn State is king, long live the king.

Here here, long live the king. I like it. A lot !!!

 

[KidDagger]

In pro sports, there is salary cap on how much the team can pay. Like a scholarship limit in college sports.

In pro sports, there is no limit to how much the athlete can make on their own through endorsements though. And a NYC athlete is typically going to have a higher profile for endorsements than a Buffalo athlete. Like NIL earnings potential is better at some places than others.

And as an aside, the salary cap in pro sports typically can be exceeded if the franchise is willing to pay a luxury tax to do so.

Yep and in pro sports, usually the worst teams gets next year’s top draft picks and vice versa.. they want to keep most teams balanced and all fan bases engaged.. so when there is a dynasty it’s even more impressive.

 

[nitlion6]

The thing with professional sports dynasty is usually there is some sort of salary cap or checks and balances in place..

imagine if all the big market teams were able to get all the best draft picks and spend more money to trade for all the best players on top.. fans of the smaller market teams would probably stop watching that product.

Salary caps? You mean like scholarship limits?

 

[Split shot]

The thing with professional sports dynasty is usually there is some sort of salary cap or checks and balances in place..

imagine if all the big market teams were able to get all the best draft picks and spend more money to trade for all the best players on top.. fans of the smaller market teams would probably stop watching that product.

Oh, I don't know. I still watch the Pirates.

 

[nitlion6]

Salary caps? You mean like scholarship limits?

I posted this response prior to reading cat's. IOU a white claw. Not sure where to buy such a thing, but I will find one. Even if I have to get my wife and daughters to sneak one out of the women's auxiliary meeting.

 

[KCLion]

The thing with professional sports dynasty is usually there is some sort of salary cap or checks and balances in place..

imagine if all the big market teams were able to get all the best draft picks and spend more money to trade for all the best players on top.. fans of the smaller market teams would probably stop watching that product.

Well - that does happen in baseball now.

 

[Zjocko]

you mean like OK ST back in the day or iowa when gable was there?no one was whining then!

They probably were... they just didnt have a platform to share their tears with everybody.

 

[KidDagger]

Well - that does happen in baseball now.

Don’t really watch baseball but heard they made some rule changes to make the game more fast paced and more enjoyable for the fans to watch.

 

[KCLion]

Don’t really watch baseball but heard they made some rule changes to make the game more fast paced and more enjoyable for the fans to watch.

By late June, if not sooner, I’d guess at least 10 stadiums will average less than 10k fans per game.

 

[Love the lions]

So PSUs success is ruining the sport? It's seems I have heard these kinds of musings before

Word has it, many educational institutions believe A, B, C,... Grades are stigmatizing the lesser performing student's, and lowering self esteem.

As a result, some institutions are enacting reforms. SATs are being rejected as entry criteria and classes are moving back to pass-fail grades to address these concerns.

I'll choose sit back and watch what happens, with my bowl of popcorn, but to be clear this movie doesn't contain much suspense.

The left's mindset has been creeping into sports for a long time as well. Equality of outcomes for them trumps, equality of opportunity. The illusion of fairness far more important than applauding excellence.

When developing remedies, they are masters at focusing on the symptom's rather than the causes.

Why do I pollute this post with politics? We all need to remain vigilant to the creep that is molding the thinking within even the best of us. The American dream was always built upon opportunity and individual drive and excellence. It should always be recognized, appreciated and applauded. And yes, not everyone can be excellent at every thing. Some people are just plain better. I am accomplished at my work, while at the same time surrounded by armies of people smarter, better, richer and more accomplished. My view, in 99% of the cases they simply earned their success and deserve the rewards.

The cause of PSU being so dominant is plain and simple. It's Cael. The man and his methods. If one is to view PSU as ruining collegiate wrestling, one should first acknowledge the admission that Cael is simply better than everyone else.

Any program or fanbase that believes PSU is ruining the sport is admitting their coach and his program is second tier. The only real remedy is to find someone better than who they have now, or for their current coaches to change the way they go about developing their program. NIL and facilities can help but both address symptoms and not the cause, and ultimately the cause, which is tied back to excellence will win out.

As a PSU fan I am 100% invested in the knowledge that Cael is a once in a several generation manifestation of excellence. This era will end someday and I remain thankful every day that we are basking in greatness that is likely fleeting. Cael will leave someday, and in his wake leave shoes impossible to fill. True, he will also leave behind a legacy that will influence the future in very positive ways for this program as well. An athelete and coaching tree and methods that can be leveraged. A NLWC that will carry forward, Bo's gym, M2 and other manifestations of his vision firm a whole ecosystem that will support PSU going forward. No doubt PSU's program will remain strong for decades to come, but when he iCael s gone, one way or another the pendulum will inexorably swing backwards. How far the pendulum swings is up to the excellence of his successor. Generally, nature can only exist at the extreme upper end of the bell curve for so long.

Admittedly, it will be great for the sport for another program rise to challenge Cael's in the coming years, setting up a powerful and exciting rivalry. Make no mistake however, Cael will adapt to whatever changes made to throttle back PSUs success. Cael is a winner, and winners win no matter the challenge. A legitimate rival will only come if Iowa, tOSU or one of the other program's ups their game, significantly.

Incredible facilities and bags of cash can buy a lot of top talent, many of whom will end up underachieving in an otherwise inferior environment.

No need to apologize to the left. If they can’t win fairly, they change the rules or smear the winners. In life and in sports. These are the same folks that promote men competing against women in order to ensure they can compete. They pioneered restrictor plates in NASCAR racing so that everybody has a chance to win. And, they sought to limit the number of weight classes in Olympic wrestling (an original Olympic sport) so that others can win medals in artistic dance, skate boarding and pogo sticks. Sad.

 

[RB-Old]

Well - that does happen in baseball now.

Yeah but baseball kind of disproves the theory. Sure the Yankees and Dodgers are good but the best record in baseball belongs to the Rays. If you have good scouts and draft properly you can win championships. It's the same with PSU, they have the best coaches and know what kids to recruit.

 

[KCLion]

Yeah but baseball kind of disproves the theory. Sure the Yankees and Dodgers are good but the best record in baseball belongs to the Rays. If you have good scouts and draft properly you can win championships. It's the same with PSU, they have the best coaches and know what kids to recruit.

Rays may win but like the Royals and Pirates, the best will take big contracts with the money teams.

I’m not agreeing that PSU is in any way ruining college wrestling, I’m just saying that the draft and cap don’t change the dynamics.

The better players usually go where they can win (however they define win).

 

[tullfan68]

Oh, I don't know. I still watch the Pirates.

damn my team is the reds they stink!

 

[BrockBronson]

This my friends is a DYNASTY! Haters gonna hate, like brands says

 

[KidDagger]

This my friends is a DYNASTY! Haters gonna hate, like brands says

PSU deserve everything they get, they develop the best wrestlers and most proven.. is PSU ruining college wrestling??… no, but I believe the portal (where top teams can poach anyone from smaller programs) can hurt the sport..

For example, if I’m cal poly coaching staff and develop a guy like Truax and know any future guy I develop can be plucked away it will feel deflating.. what’s the motivation?? Likewise, if I’m a cal poly fan and see no hope for the team future I’m probably going to stop showing up to the matches and being a cal poly fan.. and less fans and revenue could equal programs being cut..

 

[KCLion]

PSU deserve everything they get, they develop the best wrestlers and most proven.. is PSU ruining college wrestling??… no, but I believe the portal (where top teams can poach anyone from smaller programs) can hurt the sport..

For example, if I’m cal poly coaching staff and develop a guy like Truax and know any future guy I develop can be plucked away it will feel deflating.. what’s the motivation?? Likewise, if I’m a cal poly fan and see no hope for the team future I’m probably going to stop showing up to the matches and being a cal poly fan.. and less fans and revenue could equal programs being cut..

Will all of those Cal Poly now be tuning in to the Big Network to see him wrestle in best wrestling conference?

 

[KidDagger]

Will all of those Cal Poly now be tuning in to the Big Network to see him wrestle in best wrestling conference?

Can’t imagine they would be too thrilled if they did..

 

[jack66]

At least in Pro sports, players can't enter free agency until they have honored their contract.

Immediate eligibility through the portal, in conjunction with NIL, has made this the wild west in college sports.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

The thing with professional sports dynasty is usually there is some sort of salary cap or checks and balances in place..

imagine if all the big market teams were able to get all the best draft picks and spend more money to trade for all the best players on top.. fans of the smaller market teams would probably stop watching that product.

Collegiate wrestling had a firm salary cap, if you haven't been watching over the past decade. It's 9.9 scholys, and within that standard. Cael built his dynasty.

Suriano was one of the first to challenge the 1 year waiting period on transfers, and won. That one hurt only PSU.

NIL and the portal both post date what Cael had put in motion. Historically, only Iowa exceeded the "salary cap" creating an unfair disparity, and benefited with championships.

 

[Cowbell Man]

The Will Lewan fan club has entered the chat.

Only the fan club. Will is still considering it.

 

[PSUer1989]

No need to apologize to the left. If they can’t win fairly, they change the rules or smear the winners. In life and in sports. These are the same folks that promote men competing against women in order to ensure they can compete. They pioneered restrictor plates in NASCAR racing so that everybody has a chance to win. And, they sought to limit the number of weight classes in Olympic wrestling (an original Olympic sport) so that others can win medals in artistic dance, skate boarding and pogo sticks. Sad.