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Wow, what has happened to HBO

T

tboyer

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Sep 25, 2002
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Two years ago some of us made the mistake of watching "Vinyl," an incoherent string of cliche-laden dialogue and incomprehensible story. HBO wasted $100 million on it.

But now they've broken that record with "Westworld." They've now spent well in excess of $100 million and made a second season that was probably even worse than than the dreadful 1st season. The book is good, it's a great science fiction premise, hard to believe they could botch it so badly. You could make a highlight reel of the stupidest lines and it would run 2 hours. I don't think I've ever seen so many excellent actors hired to say so much bilious nonsense.

Bad screenplays are bad; bad screenplays that are pompous and self-important are worse. And bad screenplays that are so stupid they think they're answering the fundamental questions of life and existence -- it becomes unintentional comedy.

I just wonder how HBO got here. They basically invented the dramatic series, but I guess now they're unable to hire the right screenwriting and directing talent to pull it off. There is so much great TV right now and not very much of it on HBO unfortunately.
 
tboyer said:
Two years ago some of us made the mistake of watching "Vinyl," an incoherent string of cliche-laden dialogue and incomprehensible story. HBO wasted $100 million on it.

But now they've broken that record with "Westworld." They've now spent well in excess of $100 million and made a second season that was probably even worse than than the dreadful 1st season. The book is good, it's a great science fiction premise, hard to believe they could botch it so badly. You could make a highlight reel of the stupidest lines and it would run 2 hours. I don't think I've ever seen so many excellent actors hired to say so much bilious nonsense.

Bad screenplays are bad; bad screenplays that are pompous and self-important are worse. And bad screenplays that are so stupid they think they're answering the fundamental questions of life and existence -- it becomes unintentional comedy.

I just wonder how HBO got here. They basically invented the dramatic series, but I guess now they're unable to hire the right screenwriting and directing talent to pull it off. There is so much great TV right now and not very much of it on HBO unfortunately.
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It's a Nolan thing.
 
tboyer said:
Two years ago some of us made the mistake of watching "Vinyl," an incoherent string of cliche-laden dialogue and incomprehensible story. HBO wasted $100 million on it.
Click to expand...

Excellent summary of "Vinyl".
Just bad and unwatchable.
 
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tboyer said:
Two years ago some of us made the mistake of watching "Vinyl," an incoherent string of cliche-laden dialogue and incomprehensible story. HBO wasted $100 million on it.

But now they've broken that record with "Westworld." They've now spent well in excess of $100 million and made a second season that was probably even worse than than the dreadful 1st season. The book is good, it's a great science fiction premise, hard to believe they could botch it so badly. You could make a highlight reel of the stupidest lines and it would run 2 hours. I don't think I've ever seen so many excellent actors hired to say so much bilious nonsense.

Bad screenplays are bad; bad screenplays that are pompous and self-important are worse. And bad screenplays that are so stupid they think they're answering the fundamental questions of life and existence -- it becomes unintentional comedy.

I just wonder how HBO got here. They basically invented the dramatic series, but I guess now they're unable to hire the right screenwriting and directing talent to pull it off. There is so much great TV right now and not very much of it on HBO unfortunately.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I *liked* the first season and was curious about a second, but staring at all the unwatched episodes from S2 on my DVR and I just couldn't bring myself to care enough to get started. I loved the cast and ambitious storytelling, but quit caring about the characters at the end when I sort of didn't see any real end game for most of them, and moreover, just didn't care. I think the massive success of GoT has emboldened HBO to take a chance on these kinds of investments and I'm grateful, because every now and then you get something like True Detective (Season 1), Silicon Valley, The Leftovers, and Girls; the downside is Westworld S2 and Vinyl. I do have high hopes for the HBO mini-series 'Sharp Objects' which is based on the book by Gillian 'Gone Girl' Flynn and stars Amy Adams; this will be a self-contained story arc and while I think stretching the rather slim book out 10-12 episodes, I do think it'll be juicy enough to resonate with a lot of viewers (similar material to TD S1).

 
I liked Season 1 of Westworld. In a lot of ways it is like GOT. Multiple storylines told over different timelines so the show is not linear, and enough secrets/twists to generate discussion among fans about what it all means. Each scene and piece of dialogue is important to figure out what is going on. As is usually case, Season 2 tried to up the ante with even more secrets and twists meant for you go back and watch previous episodes. If you aren't willing to put in the effort and just want to watch linear storytelling without complex characters, Westworld isn't for you. That said, I found Season 2 overly complicated and meandering. The finale threw so much at the viewer that it was pretty much incomprehensible.
 
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canuckhal said:
I liked Season 1 of Westworld. In a lot of ways it is like GOT. Multiple storylines told over different timelines so the show is not linear, and enough secrets/twists to generate discussion among fans about what it all means. Each scene and piece of dialogue is important to figure out what is going on. As is usually case, Season 2 tried to up the ante with even more secrets and twists meant for you go back and watch previous episodes. If you aren't willing to put in the effort and just want to watch linear storytelling without complex characters, Westworld isn't for you. That said, I found Season 2 overly complicated and meandering. The finale threw so much at the viewer that it was pretty much incomprehensible.
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In preparation for S2 of Westworld, I actually rewatched S1 and it held up very well, once I knew how the multiple timelines were going to play out. I thought S2 started out quite promisingly, but I have to agree that S2 did not wrap up well at all. I don't think a rewatch of S2 will help, either.

I will probably tune in to S3 of Westworld, but I'm not eagerly anticipating the next season. The show should be better than it is.
 
Good pt, when HBO is on it's definitely on. True Detective S1 and Big Little Lies were lots of fun, I grew to like Leftovers -- it seemed to be asking important questions without seeming self important. You're right, it's good they swing for the fences and inevitably they will miss sometimes.

I have high hopes for Sharp Objects as well -- I would watch Amy Adams read the phone book.


Midnighter said:
Yeah, I *liked* the first season and was curious about a second, but staring at all the unwatched episodes from S2 on my DVR and I just couldn't bring myself to care enough to get started. I loved the cast and ambitious storytelling, but quit caring about the characters at the end when I sort of didn't see any real end game for most of them, and moreover, just didn't care. I think the massive success of GoT has emboldened HBO to take a chance on these kinds of investments and I'm grateful, because every now and then you get something like True Detective (Season 1), Silicon Valley, The Leftovers, and Girls; the downside is Westworld S2 and Vinyl. I do have high hopes for the HBO mini-series 'Sharp Objects' which is based on the book by Gillian 'Gone Girl' Flynn and stars Amy Adams; this will be a self-contained story arc and while I think stretching the rather slim book out 10-12 episodes, I do think it'll be juicy enough to resonate with a lot of viewers (similar material to TD S1).

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Billions is the best show on TV now but it’s not HBO. Ray Donovan is a close second although last season went a bit weird. Curb Your Enthusiasm and Veep are HBO’s best and they are both very good. I still miss the Sopranos and Deadwood.
 
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Nitwit said:
Billions is the best show on TV now but it’s not HBO. Ray Donovan is a close second although last season went a bit weird. Curb Your Enthusiasm and Veep are HBO’s best and they are both very good. I still miss the Sopranos and Deadwood.
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I felt the same about Billions that I did about Westworld, but I didn't even finish Billions. I felt like Giamatti's weird sex predilections were just too contrived and distracting. Love Malin Akerman though....

malinrotator.jpg
 
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Nitwit said:
Billions is the best show on TV now but it’s not HBO. Ray Donovan is a close second although last season went a bit weird. Curb Your Enthusiasm and Veep are HBO’s best and they are both very good. I still miss the Sopranos and Deadwood.
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I liked the first two seasons of Billions. I'm finding the third to be a bore.
 
Midnighter said:
I felt the same about Billions that I did about Westworld, but I didn't even finish Billions. I felt like Giamatti's weird sex predilections were just too contrived and distracting. Love Malin Akerman though....

malinrotator.jpg
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sounds like you havent heard of Elliot Spitzer!!!

Anyone watching Successions? So far I like it!
 
Nitwit said:
Billions is the best show on TV now but it’s not HBO. Ray Donovan is a close second although last season went a bit weird. Curb Your Enthusiasm and Veep are HBO’s best and they are both very good. I still miss the Sopranos and Deadwood.
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not a fan of GOT???

Ray was a great show but the last season was terrible IMO

I found Abbey to be essential to story line of Ray trying to balance his personal & professional life & demons
 
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sluggo72 said:
sounds like you havent heard of Elliot Spitzer!!!

Anyone watching Successions? So far I like it!
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Yeah, but still - it's distracting either way. I like the cat/mouse game better and they got away from that.
 
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wbcincy said:
I really enjoyed Barry on HBO which was new this year. Granted I'm a huge Bill Hader fan. It was a good combo of humor and drama with an interesting premise.
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Also note Hiro Murai, 'Atlanta' director/producer/co-creator, did two episodes for Barry. Gonna have to check them out.
 
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Midnighter said:
GoT = GOAT

game-of-thrones-drogon-ant.gif
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its funny, I had been trying to get my father in law to start watching it. He's a 70 year old, Italian ex Philly cop - so you can imagine its not his typical genre of show

on fathers day we were headed to breakfast. he gets in my car, looks at me with an almost embarrassed looked on his face and says "I tried to watch that Game of Thrones this week ............. Im on season 3 episode 4" LOL

another one hooked!
 
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tboyer said:
Two years ago some of us made the mistake of watching "Vinyl," an incoherent string of cliche-laden dialogue and incomprehensible story. HBO wasted $100 million on it.

But now they've broken that record with "Westworld." They've now spent well in excess of $100 million and made a second season that was probably even worse than than the dreadful 1st season. The book is good, it's a great science fiction premise, hard to believe they could botch it so badly. You could make a highlight reel of the stupidest lines and it would run 2 hours. I don't think I've ever seen so many excellent actors hired to say so much bilious nonsense.

Bad screenplays are bad; bad screenplays that are pompous and self-important are worse. And bad screenplays that are so stupid they think they're answering the fundamental questions of life and existence -- it becomes unintentional comedy.

I just wonder how HBO got here. They basically invented the dramatic series, but I guess now they're unable to hire the right screenwriting and directing talent to pull it off. There is so much great TV right now and not very much of it on HBO unfortunately.
Click to expand...

I know nothing about the series and I dumped HBO years ago, nevertheless I'm elated to hear that they still suck hard. Thank you.
 
GOT is funny for me. I like it but do not find it to be outstanding. I keep trying to find out what I am missing.

I give all the series a chance. I watched girls and thought after maybe the first season it wasn't worth watching but I kept with it even though I didn't particularly like it. I watched Vinyl and was ok with it. I didn't find it to be the abomination that many did. West World was solid in Season 1. I agree with the thought that it became too complicated and fragmented.

HBO has that Sunday night audience that it counts on and I am admittedly one of them. One HBO show that rarely gets mentioned that I liked was OZ. I haven't watched it in years. I will have to go back to see if it holds up.
 
Still in State College said:
GOT is funny for me. I like it but do not find it to be outstanding. I keep trying to find out what I am missing.

I give all the series a chance. I watched girls and thought after maybe the first season it wasn't worth watching but I kept with it even though I didn't particularly like it. I watched Vinyl and was ok with it. I didn't find it to be the abomination that many did. West World was solid in Season 1. I agree with the thought that it became too complicated and fragmented.

HBO has that Sunday night audience that it counts on and I am admittedly one of them. One HBO show that rarely gets mentioned that I liked was OZ. I haven't watched it in years. I will have to go back to see if it holds up.
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I think the thing with GoT that got people hooked/caught them off guard was a) how well developed the characters are/became, and b) how much restraint the show has. GoT is an exercise in patience and rewards those who are willing to play the long game. It's why S's 1-4 are the best - no one got what they wanted (save maybe Littlefinger) and viewers kept wanting more and more. This is in addition to the political/military maneuvering, straining of familial bonds/loyalties, and philosophical implications of pragmatism. All this happens under the methodical march of the 'threat from the North', and by S6, you see everyone has been playing the wrong game.
 
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I'm also not a fan of shows where all main characters are reprehensible.

Westworld S2 was awful. Last night's finale was completely idiotic. So may things being said and done that were stupid. It seemed like every two minutes I was pointing out another instance of stupidity or impossibility.
 
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Still in State College said:
HBO has that Sunday night audience that it counts on and I am admittedly one of them. One HBO show that rarely gets mentioned that I liked was OZ. I haven't watched it in years. I will have to go back to see if it holds up.
Click to expand...


I just went thru some old HBO series to see how they held up a few months back.
The Wire seemed even better than I remember.
Deadwood was just as good, probably even better.
Rome was as good as it was originally.
Boardwalk Empire was as good if not a little better than I remembered.
The Sopranos didn't hold up as well. Still good but not as good as I remember.
OZ, which I was a big fan of, sucked. I made it thru about 4 episodes and just didn't go any further. It seemed campy, although it seems that's where a lot of great actors got their big break.

As to S2 of Westworld, the finale was garbage and I mostly liked season 2 up until then. Maeve had all the potential to takeover the season and just went out with a whimper. The finale came across rushed like they were just trying to get it over with and tie up loose ends. It was s**t.
 
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Sorry to bust all the naysayers here, but I actually like Westworld quite a bit. I liked season 1 better because it was easier for me to follow, but if you were willing to put in the time and effort to follow and research season 2, you could get a lot out of it.

Part of me thinks that they were trying to pull off what game of thrones has done in some respects. GoT is by far the best show on TV right now, and a big reason why is the loyalty of super fans. Just go to YouTube and there's an endless stream of theory, prediction and review content. I think Westworld has done a great job of getting that type of group to get on board with the show. Evidence of this is how they build in nuggets to their promos and trailers, they have a fake Delos website with nuggets, etc. I think where Westworld fails is that if someone isn't going to go the extra mile to understand the show and consume the content, its just really really hard to follow. Casual viewers might not like the show and that's a problem if you are burning $100 million a season.

As for GoT, there's entirely two different levels to watch that show. You can be super into it and understand the depth, or you can casually watch it from the surface, and both will give you a positive impression. They also have been careful to have an end in mind and stick to it, which I think raises the bar a little more rather than getting stale (a la Walking Dead). That's what makes it a uniquely strong show.
 
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LongJakk said:
I'm also not a fan of shows where all main characters are reprehensible.

Westworld S2 was awful. Last night's finale was completely idiotic. So may things being said and done that were stupid. It seemed like every two minutes I was pointing out another instance of stupidity or impossibility.
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Agree. I know many people loved The Shield but I could never get into for that exact reason.
I mean I get "torn" or "flawed" characters but not flat out reprehensible ones.
 
LafayetteBear said:
Hey Midnighter: Did you see that Jon Snow (Kit Harrington) married Ygritte the Wilder (Rose Leslie) over the weekend? Ygritte's real life parents apparently own a castle in Scotland. Good for him.

https://my.xfinity.com/video/game-o...ie-tie-the-knot/1263311427793/Comcast/ABCNews
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I did! Very happy for them; she was great (though I first noticed her on Downton Abbey) and I was sorry to see her go. I'll note Rose Leslie could probably make a claim for the Iron Throne - her Scottish ancestry is about as blueblood as it gets....


Leslie was born to a noble family in Aberdeen, Scotland.[4] She was raised at Lickleyhead Castle in Aberdeenshire, her family's 15th century ancestral seat.[5] Her father, Sebastian Arbuthnot-Leslie, is the Aberdeenshire Chieftain of Clan Leslie. Her mother is Candida Mary Sibyl "Candy" Leslie (née Weld) of Clan Fraser, whose maternal great-grandfather was Simon Fraser, 13th Lord Lovat, and descendant of Charles II of Scotland and England.[6] Another great grandfather of Candy Leslie (née Weld) was Frederick Weld, the sixth Prime Minister of New Zealand. Her family currently resides at the 12th century Warthill Castle in Scotland's Old Rayne.[7][8][9] Her great-great grandfather was Don Guillermo de Landa y Escandon, who served as Mayor of Mexico City,[10] and she is also cousin-in-law to the British historian, William Dalrymple (FRAS).[11] Leslie's ancestors include French Huguenot Ambrose Lisle March Phillipps De Lisle, politician Charles March-Phillipps and MP James Grimston, 3rd Earl of Verulam.

She was educated at Rayne North School in Aberdeenshire and then the private school Millfield in Street, Somerset,[12] before spending three years at the London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art.[13]

No flags!

24-rose-leslie.jpg


Clan Leslie Crest & Coat of Arms

190px-Clan_member_crest_badge_-_Clan_Leslie.svg.png


200px-Leslie_arms.svg.png
 
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