Wrestle Offs

[slushhead]

So is the 197 starter a coaches decision? Does Cael give each one a few matches to see who emerges? More wrestle-offs? How do you guys see it playing out?

Unfortunately, if they are as close as it sounds, then we're probably looking at another Rasheed-Morelli or Lawson-Gingrich scenario.

Wait, let me rephrase . . . I would not be surprised if we're looking at another Rasheed-Morelli or Lawson-Gingrich scenario.

 

[dunkej01]

Unfortunately, if they are as close as it sounds, then we're probably looking at another Rasheed-Morelli or Lawson-Gingrich scenario.

Wait, let me rephrase . . . I would not be surprised if we're looking at another Rasheed-Morelli or Lawson-Gingrich scenario.

what do you bet message board banter will roller coaster around bonus points. let me rephrase, when Raptor rolls up some big match points and cutch remains steady eddy and they trade tournament Ws the interwebs will be offering all kinds of advice from their keyboards.

 

[jrd23psu]

Unfortunately, if they are as close as it sounds, then we're probably looking at another Rasheed-Morelli or Lawson-Gingrich scenario.

Wait, let me rephrase . . . I would not be surprised if we're looking at another Rasheed-Morelli or Lawson-Gingrich scenario.

If it's that close I would bet we see Cutch as the starter. Sort of the known vs the unknown coupled with the fact that Cutch has two years of starting experience to Cassar's zero.

 

[jack66]

5 reason why; Heil , Jack, Meredith, Ashnault, McKenna. Few more: Eierman, Yianni

I have a different take on 141. All those names are familiar because every year they are in the title hunt, but the fact that Heil has lost just one match in two years tells me the overall talent level as not that great. DH is hard to score on, but I don't think he dominates unless the field is somewhat average.

Two years ago Meredith came out of nowhere to reach the finals, last year DiCamillo wrestled his way into the finals. IMO, 141 is ripe for a talented young wrestler to work his way up the rankings.

 

[slushhead]

what do you bet message board banter will roller coaster around bonus points. let me rephrase, when Raptor rolls up some big match points and cutch remains steady eddy and they trade tournament Ws the interwebs will be offering all kinds of advice from their keyboards.

Precisely why I fear a Rasheed-Morelli II.

 

[dunkej01]

Precisely why I fear a Rasheed-Morelli II.

with all this talent, it may be the new normal.

 

[greenmanRD]

If 197 is that close, I would expect them both to wrestle at Keystone and the Scuffle. Last man standing will get the nod.

As for the depth of 141, there is obviously a lot of talent in this class. I think there's an interesting perspective that maybe it's not as good as we think it is given Bryce Meredith in 2016 and George DiCamillo last season.

However, I tend to think of this the other way, in that all these guys are really talented but close to each other. The only one with separation is Dean Heil (and I think it is nearly impossible to argue he hasn't separated himself from this pack). There is room for Lee, Red, and Yianni to breakthrough, but they have to reach a high level quickly to do it.

 

[dunkej01]

As for the depth of 141, there is obviously a lot of talent in this class. I think there's an interesting perspective that maybe it's not as good as we think it is given Bryce Meredith in 2016

 

[greenmanRD]

I said all these guys are really talented, so I find you quoting my post to be peculiar.

 

[dunkej01]

I said all these guys are really talented, so I find you quoting my post to be peculiar.

nothing about you. I saw that tweet earlier in the week but forgot to drag it over. seeing your post with Bryces name, sparked some grey matter. had nothing to do with you or your post.

 

[nerfstate]

Definitely don't envy coaches having to make these types of decisions, it can't ever be easy to weigh someone who's been a big time leader on your team against a talented youngster.

As for the debate at hand, I can see both sides. Imagine a Zain-free 149. T-Shirt looked GREAT as a freshman, Sorenson would seem to be a monster.... That said, you don't avoid a loss in D1 for as long as Heil has without having some talent--it's all relative (as evidenced by my belief every spring that our US team is unstoppable, but that only being proven for the first time this year).

Edit: not positing that Lee is the next Zain Train (or that Cassar is the next Mark Hall), but I suppose it's at least possible. Good thing we have actual competition coming up to suss it out!

 

[RoarLions1]

141 is deep, and the champ will have earned the individual National Championship. I struggle, frankly, with comparing weight classes and saying this one's strong, this one's weak, and so on.

Keeping it simple, winning a NC is an incredible accomplishment, regardless of someone's opinion about the strength of a weight class. Winning two (2) is many times over, an incredible feat. Heil is on the cusp of being a 3-timer, something only 30 guys have accomplished all-time (counting 3 and 4-timers)!!

As far as 141, whoever goes for us has more than just Heil, Jack, Meredith, Eierman, McKenna, and Thorn to deal with. Even if Ashnault can't go, there's also Prince, Smith, Gasca, Diehl, Alber, Storr, Red, among others. I guess imo, that's pretty deep.

 

[matter7172]

Obviously all the guys at 141 are talented, and there is no clear favorite. I don't think Heil is a clear favorite even though he is the favorite, imo. But I could see him losing to any number of guys. Otoh, if you think about how these guys would do at 149, for example, I think the best they would do would be third, maybe. Lower is more likely.

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

If the Lee/Cortez result is accurate that makes for a very interesting decision for the staff and Cortez:

1. Start Lee now, go all in and pull the shirt
2. Have Lee wrestle in Opens and the Scuffle and make a decision in January
3. If you are Cortez and got handled by that score, do you decide to wrestle in Opens and transfer out for the Spring. Do you try to go 133? If beaten that handily by Lee, unless you can make 133, you are looking at a college career of never wrestling a full season.

No. 1 seems rather unlikely, as there is no need to make an immediate decision. Same the Mark Hall situation last season. No. 2 is probably what will happen.

Regarding No. 3, it would appear that Cortez at 133 is also unlikely, as indicated by the transfer of Keener to fill the lineup at that weight. This is unfortunate, as Cortez at 133 would probably be PSU's strongest lineup. Not worth speculating about a possible transfer at this point, IMO. That type of stuff always sorts itself out.

 

[LemonPie]

If it's that close I would bet we see Cutch as the starter. Sort of the known vs the unknown coupled with the fact that Cutch has two years of starting experience to Cassar's zero.

Things we know about Cutch:

0-4 in All-American matches

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Things we know about Cutch:

0-4 in All-American matches

You’ll get crap for that bit of truth, but yeah. I certainly hope he’ll get over the hump, but if Cassar is better, I want him in there - experience or not. We need serious points at that weight unless Nick Lee matches the hype. If the latter is the case, that goes a long way to counterbalancing the Buckeyes offseason moves and improvement for us at 197 is not as crucial

 

[Lyons212]

No. 1 seems rather unlikely, as there is no need to make an immediate decision. Same the Mark Hall situation last season. No. 2 is probably what will happen.

Regarding No. 3, it would appear that Cortez at 133 is also unlikely, as indicated by the transfer of Keener to fill the lineup at that weight. This is unfortunate, as Cortez at 133 would probably be PSU's strongest lineup. Not worth speculating about a possible transfer at this point, IMO. That type of stuff always sorts itself out.

I would go with Lee starting the year as a redshirt and make a decision after the Scuffle. Does anyone know if Lee as a redshirt could wrestle at the Keystone Classic? I don't recall any of our redshirts such as Hall wrestling there last year.

 

[RoarLions1]

I would go with Lee starting the year as a redshirt and make a decision after the Scuffle. Does anyone know if Lee as a redshirt could wrestle at the Keystone Classic? I don't recall any of our redshirts such as Hall wrestling there last year.

-- Tournament scoring, just like B1G's or NCAA's
-- Up to 20 wrestlers, 1 scorer per weight class
-- No redshirts
-- 1 day tournament
-- Held at the Palestra
-- Covered by Flo last year

Solid, if unremarkable, tournament last year. Look for the same in 2017.

Here's a little taste of last year, including a move that made my top-3 during 2016-17.

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/1015847-jason-nolf-is-one-wild-dude#.Wfnghf7D_cc

 

[tikk10]

Regardless of who goes at 197 I'm encouraged, for Cassar's sake, that he's at least on par with Cutch. We've had no real indication of where he is for two years now and if he's wrestling Matt that close, I'm thinking he can beat a lot of D1 guys right now. Too early to extrapolate farther than that, but it's good enough news that he's ready to go if need be.

And if Lee nearly tech'd Cortez, it's an understatement to suggest he's ready to go too. I wonder how those points were scored too.

Of the four non-AA "question marks," 141 and 197 were the most promising and the outlook for both weights probably improves a tick with this news.

125 and 133 will probably remain unclear for awhile. I tend to think Cortez at 133 has more upside than Keener only b/c before he got hurt, in his limited run last year, Cortez was getting bonus points, but am happy to see whoever go.

 

[PSUAllTheWay]

The problem we have at 197 is a good one. Cassar has a history of injury issues so even if he wins the spot, Cutch will be standing by and ready to step back in if something unfortunate happens. #depthwins

 

[tikk10]

Here's a little taste of last year, including a move that made my top-3 during 2016-17.

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/1015847-jason-nolf-is-one-wild-dude#.Wfnghf7D_cc

I think you're probably referring to the roll against Bethea, but I'd forgotten completely about what he did against Wentzel. Ref should've started counting there, he earned those back points, regardless of how weird it looked.

 

[El-Jefe]

The problem we have at 197 is a good one. Cassar has a history of injury issues so even if he wins the spot, Cutch will be standing by and ready to step back in if something unfortunate happens. #depthwins

If Cassar wins the spot, his backup has 3 wins over NCAA finalists.

If Mouse wins, his backup is a freestyle JR world team member.

 

[El-Jefe]

I think you're probably referring to the roll against Bethea, but I'd forgotten completely about what he did against Wentzel. Ref should've started counting there, he earned those back points, regardless of how weird it looked.

Wasn't that also the bloody nose one-armed headlock match?

 

[NittanyChris]

Not sure it makes sense to compare the Hall and Lee situations. The plan for Hall, all along, was to redshirt during his freshman year. That plan changed.
Lee, on the other hand, moved to State College a year early to start training and get here in the room. Perhaps his plan is to not redshirt this year at all.
If he indeed beat Cortez 14-1, it seems he is ready to compete immediately.

 

[tikk10]

Wasn't that also the bloody nose one-armed headlock match?

I think that was Illinois, against Kyle Langenderfer.

 

[dunkej01]

Not sure it makes sense to compare the Hall and Lee situations. The plan for Hall, all along, was to redshirt during his freshman year. That plan changed.
Lee, on the other hand, moved to State College a year early to start training and get here in the room. Perhaps his plan is to not redshirt this year at all.
If he indeed beat Cortez 14-1, it seems he is ready to compete immediately.

When we figure out what to do for big bro, lets spend some time helping lil bro. I feel his pain.

 

[RoarLions1]

I think that was Illinois, against Kyle Langenderfer.

Yes, plug finally taped in place.

Though I believe the image (can't find it) of Nolf's bloody face happened at the Classic.

 

[PSUisawesome]

We will just have to find out. How many predicted Cenzo as NCAA champ? Nick Lee is exciting, has great upside and we will see how he does. I suspect he does better than you and others might think.

For whatever it's worth CP thinks he will be top four in March.

 

[Ja1339]

Someone posted on FOS that it went 6-4 Cassar and 5-3 Cutch.

Wouldn't an odd number of matches make more sense?

 

[El-Jefe]

Wouldn't an odd number of matches make more sense?

Maybe that's not all? Ohio State held its tanoffs over 2 days.

 

[SpikingWhamos]

I think that was Illinois, against Kyle Langenderfer.

No, that was a different Nolf bloody nose. The headlock was vs Wentzel at Keystone

Headlock happens at ~:20 here, Nolf realizes he's bleeding and holds his nose to prevent the stoppage around :45
http://www.flowrestling.org/video/1...ason-nolf-penn-state-vs-jake-wentzel-pitt#t=1

 

[pawrestlersintn]

No, that was a different Nolf bloody nose. The headlock was vs Wentzel at Keystone

Headlock happens at ~:20 here, Nolf realizes he's bleeding and holds his nose to prevent the stoppage around :45
http://www.flowrestling.org/video/1...ason-nolf-penn-state-vs-jake-wentzel-pitt#t=1

Seconds before that, it appeared that Nolf was going to use Wentzel's hand to stop the bleeding.

 

[Bob_Anderson]

Regardless of who goes at 197 I'm encouraged, for Cassar's sake, that he's at least on par with Cutch. We've had no real indication of where he is for two years now and if he's wrestling Matt that close, I'm thinking he can beat a lot of D1 guys right now. Too early to extrapolate farther than that, but it's good enough news that he's ready to go if need be.

And if Lee nearly tech'd Cortez, it's an understatement to suggest he's ready to go too. I wonder how those points were scored too.

Of the four non-AA "question marks," 141 and 197 were the most promising and the outlook for both weights probably improves a tick with this news.

125 and 133 will probably remain unclear for awhile. I tend to think Cortez at 133 has more upside than Keener only b/c before he got hurt, in his limited run last year, Cortez was getting bonus points, but am happy to see whoever go.

is it too late for Cortez to give 133 a go this year, certification wise? not an expert in these matters.

 

[johnstownsteel]

Wouldn't an odd number of matches make more sense?

Same person said there will be a third match on Friday.

 

[RoarLions1]

is it too late for Cortez to give 133 a go this year, certification wise? not an expert in these matters.

Not sure what you're asking, though I'll give an answer. If it doesn't help, just ask again...

Each rostered wrestler is required to have their initial assessment done by today, November 1st. Their lowest allowable weight, by rule, should already be calculated. Whether Cortez can go 133 or not is already determined.

 

[tikk10]

Not sure what you're asking, though I'll give an answer. If it doesn't help, just ask again...

Each rostered wrestler is required to have their initial assessment done by today, November 1st. Their lowest allowable weight, by rule, should already be calculated. Whether Cortez can go 133 or not is already determined.

I think he's asking if anyone knows whether Cortez has certified for 133. I don't know myself, I only know that some numbers were published online, I forget where, but I didn't bother looking because some people pointed out that those numbers might not be reliable.

 

[Bob_Anderson]

I think he's asking if anyone knows whether Cortez has certified for 133. I don't know myself, I only know that some numbers were published online, I forget where, but I didn't bother looking because some people pointed out that those numbers might not be reliable.

yes, this is what I was asking. sorry for the confusion. trying to do too many things at once.

 

[RoarLions1]

I think he's asking if anyone knows whether Cortez has certified for 133. I don't know myself, I only know that some numbers were published online, I forget where, but I didn't bother looking because some people pointed out that those numbers might not be reliable.

It's on Track, though I found the numbers unreliable. They appeared to place each wrestler into the weight class where they actually weighed, not the calculated lowest allowable weight.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

I'll throw a theory out there.

Cortez saw the writing on the wall and was already starting the descent. And, that contributed to the lopsided wrestle-off.

 

[johnstownsteel]

I'll throw a theory out there.

Cortez saw the writing on the wall and was already starting the descent. And, that contributed to the lopsided wrestle-off.

I thought this as well.