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Yikes! Forbes ranks Penn State as the 408th best in the nation

No doubt Brandon Short and the amazing trustees will strongly protest this attempt to undermine the program.

Can't wait for all to chime in about how this is a bogus rating.
 
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No doubt Brandon Short and the amazing trustees will strongly protest this attempt to undermine the program.

Can't wait for all to chime in about how this is a bogus rating.
I don't know the rating methodology used but assuming it has been consistent, PSU has dropped like a stone. One has to assume one or all of the following:

  • complete and total mismanagement of the Sandusky situation.
  • COVID lockdown mismanagement (but I don't think it is all that different than other schools higher ranked)
  • Complete mismanagement of the governance of the university
And I don't know Mr. Short from Ms. Long but he "didn't start this fire".
 
As I was tooling around the data, it struck me that one could make a case for Va having one of the best public systems in the country, particularly adjusting for population. 4 publics in the top 100, second only to CA with 12 (which has 4x the population)
 
As I was tooling around the data, it struck me that one could make a case for Va having one of the best public systems in the country, particularly adjusting for population. 4 publics in the top 100, second only to CA with 12 (which has 4x the population)
I found this to be pretty bogus:

Forbes American Leaders List (15%)

The Forbes American Leaders List is part of what sets Forbes’s rankings apart from the crowd. The list aims to gauge the leadership and entrepreneurial success of a college’s graduates. To do this, we count how many listmakers each school produced on the most recent Forbes 30 Under 30, Forbes 400, Richest Self-Made Women and Most Powerful Women lists. We also count the undergraduate alma maters of members of the Presidential cabinet, Supreme Court, Congress and sitting governors, as well as winners of the MacArthur Fellowship, Nobel Prize, Breakthrough Prize, Lasker Prize, Fields Prize, Academy Awards, Oscars, Tony’s, NAACP Awards, Guggenheim Fellowship, Presidential Medals, Pulitzer Prizes, and major sport all-stars. This measure is weighted at 15%.​
First, many of these "lists" are pay-to-play. Second, anyone graduating from an Ivy League school has a huge head start in making the 30 under age 30 list. And many of these awards really almost require you to get the pedigree and networking insider connections to make such lists.
 
I don't know the rating methodology used but assuming it has been consistent, PSU has dropped like a stone. One has to assume one or all of the following:

  • complete and total mismanagement of the Sandusky situation.
  • COVID lockdown mismanagement (but I don't think it is all that different than other schools higher ranked)
  • Complete mismanagement of the governance of the university
And I don't know Mr. Short from Ms. Long but he "didn't start this fire".
IMO, the Sandusky situation is the main problem. The stink from that situation still hasn't gone away. The kids who are going to college now were around 6-10 years old when the situation broke and the it remained in the media for years after the scandal broke. They grew up and forumulated their opinions of colleges while the scandal was at its height.
 
My god… 408th? How in heck does anyone try to explain that? What have they been ranked in previous Forbes ratings? I’ve never heard of a Forbes top 500 list but.

I also recently saw a list of schools with top donations for the athletic departments the other day and PSU was ranked #25… and supposedly they have the largest alumni base. I think the total was around $350m.

Clearly money isn’t coming in for a reason and a 408 ranking in anything doesn’t help.

Baron and his cabal really torpedoed this once wonderful school in so many areas.
 
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I found this to be pretty bogus:

Forbes American Leaders List (15%)

The Forbes American Leaders List is part of what sets Forbes’s rankings apart from the crowd. The list aims to gauge the leadership and entrepreneurial success of a college’s graduates. To do this, we count how many listmakers each school produced on the most recent Forbes 30 Under 30, Forbes 400, Richest Self-Made Women and Most Powerful Women lists. We also count the undergraduate alma maters of members of the Presidential cabinet, Supreme Court, Congress and sitting governors, as well as winners of the MacArthur Fellowship, Nobel Prize, Breakthrough Prize, Lasker Prize, Fields Prize, Academy Awards, Oscars, Tony’s, NAACP Awards, Guggenheim Fellowship, Presidential Medals, Pulitzer Prizes, and major sport all-stars. This measure is weighted at 15%.​
First, many of these "lists" are pay-to-play. Second, anyone graduating from an Ivy League school has a huge head start in making the 30 under age 30 list. And many of these awards really almost require you to get the pedigree and networking insider connections to make such lists.
Sure one can always quibble with methods. But uva, va tech, William and Mary, and mason are four pretty solid publics
 
No doubt Brandon Short and the amazing trustees will strongly protest this attempt to undermine the program.

Can't wait for all to chime in about how this is a bogus rating.
And you seriously think PSU is the 408th ranked college? Scranton and Juniata are better schools, really. Think about that.
 
I remember a few folks thumbing their nose at FSU over Big Ten speculation last week. Clueless🤣
 
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And you seriously think PSU is the 408th ranked college? Scranton and Juniata are better schools, really. Think about that.
I don’t know the cost of the other schools you mention, but if cost is a factor in the ranking, that might be a major component on why PSU is ranked in the crapper.
 
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This poll could be faulty but it seems like PSU has gone backwards in several polls.
Maybe that's what happens when the people who have led this school for the past decade and longer have done everything to make it into something for which it never was intended and should not be. This school needs to stop trying to be Berkley East and start focusing on what it's supposed to be, a Land Grant school in the middle of PA.

By the way, the school that PSU is playing on Saturday also is in a terrible financial state like PSU, and thus their President, Gordon Gee, who used to run OSU and currently makes a salary of $800,000.00 a year, intends to cut several programs, including many foreign languages, and lay off many employees. I hate to see any erstwhile employee lose a job, but it's so obvious that many of these mega universities have been so mismanaged and have lost their purpose. Also, a lot of these schools, including PSU, have declining enrollments, and I really believe that their ridiculous Covid policies have contributed to that. Therefore, their reaping what they've sown.
 
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Maybe that's what happens when the people who have led this school for the past decade and longer have done everything to make it into something for which it never was intended and should not be. This school needs to stop trying to be Berkley East and start focusing on what it's supposed to be, a Land Grant school in the middle of PA.

By the way, the school that PSU is playing on Saturday also is in a terrible financial state like PSU, and thus their President, Gordon Gee, who used to run OSU and currently makes a salary of $800,000.00 a year, intends to cut several programs, including many foreign languages, and lay off many employees. I hate to see any erstwhile employee lose a job, but it's so obvious that many of these mega universities have been so mismanaged and have lost their purpose. Also, a lot of these schools, including PSU, have declining enrollments, and I really believe that their ridiculous Covid policies have contributed to that. Therefore, their reaping what they've sown.
How many DEI employees do we have? How many people working in the department of Empathy, Awareness, and Compassion? How many majors in these types of things? All of this stuff adds cost but I don't think it leads to better careers.

I know this is going on at all major universities these days and I certainly want students to be treated fairly. But it seems that the focus is on this things more than things like science, technology, and business. If my kid wants to be a chemist I want them to go to a school that focuses on that, not on the politically correct stuff.
 
How many DEI employees do we have? How many people working in the department of Empathy, Awareness, and Compassion? How many majors in these types of things? All of this stuff adds cost but I don't think it leads to better careers.

I know this is going on at all major universities these days and I certainly want students to be treated fairly. But it seems that the focus is on this things more than things like science, technology, and business. If my kid wants to be a chemist I want them to go to a school that focuses on that, not on the politically correct stuff.
I went to Ohio university’s orientation last year. In 1.5 days of meetings I never hear the word career, job or grades once. It was pretty shocking.

They had the largest frosh class in history and ended up with the largest drop out percentage in the schools history.
 
How many DEI employees do we have? How many people working in the department of Empathy, Awareness, and Compassion? How many majors in these types of things? All of this stuff adds cost but I don't think it leads to better careers.

I know this is going on at all major universities these days and I certainly want students to be treated fairly. But it seems that the focus is on this things more than things like science, technology, and business. If my kid wants to be a chemist I want them to go to a school that focuses on that, not on the politically correct stuff.
Two days ago, I was listening to John Steigerwald's local Pittsburgh radio show on my way home from work, and he had a guest on to talk about the WVU situation. The guest told him that Stanford now has an incredible number of DEI type of employees compared to the ratio of students at that school, and I'm sure that that now is the situation at many of these schools.
 
Go Woke, Go Broke.....Maybe the new class of Freshman, oooops I can't say that. Maybe the group of first year students can turn it around.
I don’t think that is the singular answer as every school in the nation has gone woke. If you read the article, they measured career success to cost of education. That is why so many’ connected’ schools still score well.

At PSU specifically, the school continued to spend like drunken sailors even in the JS aftermath. The cost for the school is out of line with career success
 
I don’t think that is the singular answer as every school in the nation has gone woke. If you read the article, they measured career success to cost of education. That is why so many’ connected’ schools still score well.

At PSU specifically, the school continued to spend like drunken sailors even in the JS aftermath. The cost for the school is out of line with career success
You are probably right, although it surley doesn't help. We had a professor that ****s dogs in the park for fun....you think things like that helps the cause?
 
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I don’t think that is the singular answer as every school in the nation has gone woke. If you read the article, they measured career success to cost of education. That is why so many’ connected’ schools still score well.

At PSU specifically, the school continued to spend like drunken sailors even in the JS aftermath. The cost for the school is out of line with career success
Even at schools like Harvard and the other Ivy League schools, other than getting a diploma with that school's name on it, which admittedly means a lot but probably no longer should, are these kids getting that much better of an education than a kid who goes to a Grove City? I've always believed that one can get a good education at almost any institution of higher learning if you put the time into it and take advantage of what that school has to offer.

You're right about the outrageous spending at a lot of these places. There clearly needs to be more oversight; they're continuing to spend despite declining enrollment and bloated staff. Also, these schools have to cut the totally unnecessary programs and classes that many students, especially frosh, are obligated to attend, and I think that we all know what kind of programs and classes they are.
 
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PSU was inside the top-100 in this same ranking just a few years ago. It seems that the branch campuses and world campus were included in the data this year.
 
How many DEI employees do we have? How many people working in the department of Empathy, Awareness, and Compassion? How many majors in these types of things? All of this stuff adds cost but I don't think it leads to better careers.

I know this is going on at all major universities these days and I certainly want students to be treated fairly. But it seems that the focus is on this things more than things like science, technology, and business. If my kid wants to be a chemist I want them to go to a school that focuses on that, not on the politically correct stuff.
I remember a couple months back when on one of the boards we were talking about the alumni nominees to the BoT. I remember saying I couldn't support the candidates supported by PS4US because their public statement talked about diversity, equity pay for employees and climate change. I said I didn't see one word about controlling costs, or the quality of education which were both going the wrong way. I was roundly criticized by some who insisted their is nothing wrong about the quality of education and it had not slipped at all. Well.....?
 
I remember a couple months back when on one of the boards we were talking about the alumni nominees to the BoT. I remember saying I couldn't support the candidates supported by PS4US because their public statement talked about diversity, equity pay for employees and climate change. I said I didn't see one word about controlling costs, or the quality of education which were both going the wrong way. I was roundly criticized by some who insisted their is nothing wrong about the quality of education and it had not slipped at all. Well.....?
unfortunately, the board members that the public gets to vote on are meaningless. The board is stacked with appointees from govt and other sources. They rule the BOT by cabal. People like Short and Lubrano and Demlion are meaningless.
 
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Behind PA schools like Juniata and the University of Scranton (but we did beat Susquehanna and Ursinus!).

Penn ranked 8th, Pitt ranked 235, Grove City at 225.


“I very much appreciate those words. You know this is the first Board meeting I have ever been to in 33 years so if I look a little shocked and scared, bear with me, I really do appreciate this. I would hope maybe on this occasion since I’ve never addressed a Board meeting, to maybe share some thoughts with you as to where we are and what I hope we can get done here at the University. It pleases me, obviously, to happen to be part of the Number One football team. I am pleased also that it happened at this time in Dr. Oswald’s career that he could leave feeling that he finally got it done. Having been a former coach, he knows how tough it is to get on top of the pile and everything else. It pleases me in a lot of ways. But after having said that, and I’m going to be very frank with you, and I may say some things here that maybe I should not, but it does give me an opportunity to tell you how I feel and what I want to do and what kind of contributions I’d like to make to this institution as I stay on. You know, obviously, all of us are disappointed in the newspaper reports that some of our academic departments are not rated very high. That bothers me. It bothers me to see Penn State football be Number One and then to pick up a newspaper several weeks later and we find we don’t have many of our disciplines rated up there with the other institutions in the country. I want to share just a couple of things with you and I hope you’ll understand where I’m coming from.

“I think this is a magic time for Penn State. Dr. Oswald has said this, and I have felt it, and I think he is probably more attuned to it than anybody. There has never been a time when Penn State has been more united or proud. Now maybe it’s unfortunate that it takes a Number One football team to do that. I don’t think we can lose the opportunities that this moment presents to us, and I don’t mean in athletics. I’m not even concerned about the athletic aspects of where we are, I think we can handle that and make sure that we can maintain the kind of teams that you people like to see and you can be proud of and identify with the type of students and the type of football players we get. But I think we have got somehow to start right now. I think Dr. Oswald came to us at a time that we absolutely had to retrench in some areas and he has done a magnificent job for us. I for one want to thank him for what he has done for intercollegiate athletics. We would not be Number One in athletics if it had not been for his cooperation. Every time I ever went to him he never said no to me. I’d like to be on record as having said that. Maybe once in a while there has been somebody in between us that has not presented my case accurately, but anytime I have had an opportunity to sit with him and discuss some things that we needed, he’s never said no to me. I don’t think we’d be where we are if it hadn’t happened that way. But I go back to a fact that we are in a national situation that I have never felt as I have felt now.

“I have been all over the country in the last few weeks. I have been in Florida, been in California, I’ve been in airports in Chicago and Atlanta, you name it, and I’ve been there recruiting and doing some other things trying to capitalize on the position that you have when you’ve had success and trying to make some corrections in what we have and the abuses of the intercollegiate program. Some of the thoughts that I have expressed–and I don’t mean to make this a testimonial of Dr. Oswald–but he was one of the people that came up with the ideas that we had to raise the level for scholarship. He was one of the Council of the American Council of Education, one of the select committee, that came up with the standards that we proposed out on the Coast and I’ve gotten a lot of publicity for having made some speeches out there, but it was Dr. Oswald and some other college Presidents who got together and proposed those standards. But everywhere I’ve gone I’ve heard nothing but, ‘boy, Penn State, Penn State, what a great bunch of people, what a great institution,’ and all of those things.


“So we do have a magic moment and we have a great opportunity, and I think we have got to start right now to put our energies together to make Penn State not only Number One, but I think we’ve got to start to put our energies together to make this a Number One institution by 1990. I don’t think that’s an unfounded or a way-out objective. I think we need some things. I talk to you now as a faculty member. I talk to you as somebody who has spent 33 years at Penn State, who has two daughters at Penn State, who probably will have three sons at Penn State, who has a wife that graduated from Penn State, who has two brother-in-laws that graduated from Penn State, and I talk to you as somebody I think who knows a little bit about what’s going on. Who has recruited against Michigan, Stanford, UCLA, who has recruited against Notre Dame, Princeton, Yale, and Harvard and who has had to identify some things that they have that are better than we have and has had to identify some of our problems. I talk to you as somebody that I think knows a little bit about what’s going on in the other guys, and I think a little bit about what’s going on here. We need chairs. We need money so that we can get some stars. We need scholarship money. We need scholarship money to get scholars who can be with the stars so that the stars will come in and have some people around that can stimulate them and they can be stimulated by the stars. We need a better library–better libraries would be a better way to put it–so that the stars and the scholars have the tools to realize their potential. We need an environment of dissent and freedom of speech and freedom to express new and controversial ideas. Basically, this Board is in a lot of ways reactionary because you are more conservative than anything else. That is not a criticism of you as individuals, but I think that’s a fair criticism of The Pennsylvania State University Board of Trustees for the 33 years that I have known them going back to Jim Milholland who was acting Chairman and President when I first came. We need more controversy, we need more freedom, we need more people to come to us with different ideas, we need more minorities. I am constantly fighting the battle, ‘we don’t have enough blacks; we don’t have enough minorities’ everywhere I go, and I don’t have the answers to it, but I’m giving you some impressions. We can’t be afraid, too reactionary to new and disturbing ideas; however, we can’t do some of the things all at once. I think that Dr. Oswald and the new President and Ted Eddy, our Provost, have got to sit down–I’m probably not speaking in turn, I’m probably way out of whack, I’m probably on a page that I probably shouldn’t be on but I feel so strongly about it I want to say it–to sit down and put down some priorities. We have some excellent departments. And I know because when I get out in the field we have some excellent departments that can be absolutely outstanding in a relatively short time. We also have some departments that are absolutely lousy and we have lazy profs who are only concerned with tenure and only concerned with getting tenure for some of their mediocre colleagues.

“Alright, now I’m telling you how I feel about it and I may be all wet. But I’ve dealt with all of them, and a lot of these latter groups. Some of these people in the latter group would make Happy Valley Sleepy Hollow if we let them. It’s certainly not invigorating. We’ve got a new President and I think that he and Dr. Oswald need to sit down and have to probably make some tough decisions.

“Pirandello, the brilliant Italian playwright–I suppose brilliant and Italian is redundant–wrote a play ‘Six Characters in Search of an Author’, in which the characters of an unfinished play come to life and then they try to finish the play. Well, I believe that Penn State has not necessarily all of a sudden come to life. That would be an unfair criticism of all of the great things that have been done here in the 33 years that I have been here. But I think it’s more alive today than at any time in 33 years that I’ve been here. I think it’s well organized, and I think it’s got thrust and wants to pursue. It’s alive but it’s looking. I think we are not looking for bricks and mortar–and most of you people are businessmen–and we are not looking for GSA money. I think we are looking for the soul of this institution. The soul may be an overstatement, but I’m not sure I’m overstating the case. I think we’re literally looking for a soul. Who we are, what we are, and I think that basically comes down to soul. We need to find out soul. We need vibrant, aggressive, brilliant teachers and scholars. We have some, but we don’t have enough of them and that’s why we need chairs. We need to give them the resources to grow and the freedom to challenge some of the old ideas and old conceptions that have made this country backward in a lot of ways, and have made this state the one with the highest unemployment of any state in the northeast part of the country.

“I’m a football coach. I sit down with my staff and I look at our schedule and our squad and we say this is what we want to do and this is what we can do. And then we set priorities and make decisions as to how we can achieve our objectives. We put a plan together and we stick with it. We don’t jump from one plan to the other and we bust our butt to get it done. And that’s what has to be done with Penn State in the ‘80s. We can’t wait. It would be nice to say we can wait and in three years put together a major fund-raising campaign. We can’t wait. I am only telling you that as somebody who’s in the field. We can only hold up our finger as Number One for six more months and then we have to play the game again and we may not be Number One. Six short months to capture this magic moment. We have got to raise $7 to $10 million bucks as far as I’m concerned in the next six months or we are going to lose some things and an opportunity we have. How do you go about raising $7 to $10 million is somebody else’s concern. I’m willing to help in any way I can. We need $7 to $10 million in the next six months to get us the impetus that we need because we don’t want to lose it. I think we’ve got to take this magic moment and stick it in a jar and we’ve got to preserve it until we open it up in 1990.

“Dr. Eddy, the other day at an alumni meeting down at Pittsburgh where we had over a thousand people in Allegheny County. Stan was there and some of the others were there and the next night we went to Westmoreland County where we had over 580 people and they turned away 300 people. There is a great group out there right now wanting to get involved in it. Dr. Eddy said it the other night better than I can. He said, and he almost sounded like a football coach, we have a great chance and challenge to make our University Number One in many areas and in coming together to do it we may find out we will have as much fun doing it as we had fun doing it in New Orleans. It was a very moving speech and it hit home. I have had a lot of people come to me wanting to know how they can help. I said to you I have given 33 years, two daughters, and probably three sons to Penn State. I am ready to help where I can to make “Number One” mean more than when we stick that finger up it’s only football. We are losing a great President; we’re starting a new era. As Jim Tarman said the other night, we are fortunate that where we are that we’ve been able to get there our way. We’ve not cheated, I mean not deliberately, you never know with that thick rule book. We’ve done it with people who legitimately belong in college. We’ve set a standard in one area that I think created a challenge for us to reach in all of our areas. You are the people who are going to have to help us do it. There are a lot of us that want to get on with it.

“So, thank you very much for this wonderful resolution. I’m moved. I think you know how much I love this institution and how much I appreciate what it has meant to me and my family for 33 glorious years. 33 years of a great love affair that I have had with this place in this town. I have no regrets. I’m only anxious to get on with some other things to make it even bigger and better, not in a sense of size, but in the context of quality and influence in this country and in some of the things that I think it’s important for a major institution of this size to do. So, thank you very much. I hope I didn’t bore you with it too long.”
 
unfortunately, the board members that the public gets to vote on are meaningless. The board is stacked with appointees from govt and other sources. They rule the BOT by cabal. People like Short and Lubrano and Demlion are meaningless.
That may be true but at least pretend to care about quality of education and costs. Those 3 things they identified as a focus have the opposite effect.
 
“I very much appreciate those words. You know this is the first Board meeting I have ever been to in 33 years so if I look a little shocked and scared, bear with me, I really do appreciate this. I would hope maybe on this occasion since I’ve never addressed a Board meeting, to maybe share some thoughts with you as to where we are and what I hope we can get done here at the University. It pleases me, obviously, to happen to be part of the Number One football team. I am pleased also that it happened at this time in Dr. Oswald’s career that he could leave feeling that he finally got it done. Having been a former coach, he knows how tough it is to get on top of the pile and everything else. It pleases me in a lot of ways. But after having said that, and I’m going to be very frank with you, and I may say some things here that maybe I should not, but it does give me an opportunity to tell you how I feel and what I want to do and what kind of contributions I’d like to make to this institution as I stay on. You know, obviously, all of us are disappointed in the newspaper reports that some of our academic departments are not rated very high. That bothers me. It bothers me to see Penn State football be Number One and then to pick up a newspaper several weeks later and we find we don’t have many of our disciplines rated up there with the other institutions in the country. I want to share just a couple of things with you and I hope you’ll understand where I’m coming from.

“I think this is a magic time for Penn State. Dr. Oswald has said this, and I have felt it, and I think he is probably more attuned to it than anybody. There has never been a time when Penn State has been more united or proud. Now maybe it’s unfortunate that it takes a Number One football team to do that. I don’t think we can lose the opportunities that this moment presents to us, and I don’t mean in athletics. I’m not even concerned about the athletic aspects of where we are, I think we can handle that and make sure that we can maintain the kind of teams that you people like to see and you can be proud of and identify with the type of students and the type of football players we get. But I think we have got somehow to start right now. I think Dr. Oswald came to us at a time that we absolutely had to retrench in some areas and he has done a magnificent job for us. I for one want to thank him for what he has done for intercollegiate athletics. We would not be Number One in athletics if it had not been for his cooperation. Every time I ever went to him he never said no to me. I’d like to be on record as having said that. Maybe once in a while there has been somebody in between us that has not presented my case accurately, but anytime I have had an opportunity to sit with him and discuss some things that we needed, he’s never said no to me. I don’t think we’d be where we are if it hadn’t happened that way. But I go back to a fact that we are in a national situation that I have never felt as I have felt now.

“I have been all over the country in the last few weeks. I have been in Florida, been in California, I’ve been in airports in Chicago and Atlanta, you name it, and I’ve been there recruiting and doing some other things trying to capitalize on the position that you have when you’ve had success and trying to make some corrections in what we have and the abuses of the intercollegiate program. Some of the thoughts that I have expressed–and I don’t mean to make this a testimonial of Dr. Oswald–but he was one of the people that came up with the ideas that we had to raise the level for scholarship. He was one of the Council of the American Council of Education, one of the select committee, that came up with the standards that we proposed out on the Coast and I’ve gotten a lot of publicity for having made some speeches out there, but it was Dr. Oswald and some other college Presidents who got together and proposed those standards. But everywhere I’ve gone I’ve heard nothing but, ‘boy, Penn State, Penn State, what a great bunch of people, what a great institution,’ and all of those things.


“So we do have a magic moment and we have a great opportunity, and I think we have got to start right now to put our energies together to make Penn State not only Number One, but I think we’ve got to start to put our energies together to make this a Number One institution by 1990. I don’t think that’s an unfounded or a way-out objective. I think we need some things. I talk to you now as a faculty member. I talk to you as somebody who has spent 33 years at Penn State, who has two daughters at Penn State, who probably will have three sons at Penn State, who has a wife that graduated from Penn State, who has two brother-in-laws that graduated from Penn State, and I talk to you as somebody I think who knows a little bit about what’s going on. Who has recruited against Michigan, Stanford, UCLA, who has recruited against Notre Dame, Princeton, Yale, and Harvard and who has had to identify some things that they have that are better than we have and has had to identify some of our problems. I talk to you as somebody that I think knows a little bit about what’s going on in the other guys, and I think a little bit about what’s going on here. We need chairs. We need money so that we can get some stars. We need scholarship money. We need scholarship money to get scholars who can be with the stars so that the stars will come in and have some people around that can stimulate them and they can be stimulated by the stars. We need a better library–better libraries would be a better way to put it–so that the stars and the scholars have the tools to realize their potential. We need an environment of dissent and freedom of speech and freedom to express new and controversial ideas. Basically, this Board is in a lot of ways reactionary because you are more conservative than anything else. That is not a criticism of you as individuals, but I think that’s a fair criticism of The Pennsylvania State University Board of Trustees for the 33 years that I have known them going back to Jim Milholland who was acting Chairman and President when I first came. We need more controversy, we need more freedom, we need more people to come to us with different ideas, we need more minorities. I am constantly fighting the battle, ‘we don’t have enough blacks; we don’t have enough minorities’ everywhere I go, and I don’t have the answers to it, but I’m giving you some impressions. We can’t be afraid, too reactionary to new and disturbing ideas; however, we can’t do some of the things all at once. I think that Dr. Oswald and the new President and Ted Eddy, our Provost, have got to sit down–I’m probably not speaking in turn, I’m probably way out of whack, I’m probably on a page that I probably shouldn’t be on but I feel so strongly about it I want to say it–to sit down and put down some priorities. We have some excellent departments. And I know because when I get out in the field we have some excellent departments that can be absolutely outstanding in a relatively short time. We also have some departments that are absolutely lousy and we have lazy profs who are only concerned with tenure and only concerned with getting tenure for some of their mediocre colleagues.

“Alright, now I’m telling you how I feel about it and I may be all wet. But I’ve dealt with all of them, and a lot of these latter groups. Some of these people in the latter group would make Happy Valley Sleepy Hollow if we let them. It’s certainly not invigorating. We’ve got a new President and I think that he and Dr. Oswald need to sit down and have to probably make some tough decisions.

“Pirandello, the brilliant Italian playwright–I suppose brilliant and Italian is redundant–wrote a play ‘Six Characters in Search of an Author’, in which the characters of an unfinished play come to life and then they try to finish the play. Well, I believe that Penn State has not necessarily all of a sudden come to life. That would be an unfair criticism of all of the great things that have been done here in the 33 years that I have been here. But I think it’s more alive today than at any time in 33 years that I’ve been here. I think it’s well organized, and I think it’s got thrust and wants to pursue. It’s alive but it’s looking. I think we are not looking for bricks and mortar–and most of you people are businessmen–and we are not looking for GSA money. I think we are looking for the soul of this institution. The soul may be an overstatement, but I’m not sure I’m overstating the case. I think we’re literally looking for a soul. Who we are, what we are, and I think that basically comes down to soul. We need to find out soul. We need vibrant, aggressive, brilliant teachers and scholars. We have some, but we don’t have enough of them and that’s why we need chairs. We need to give them the resources to grow and the freedom to challenge some of the old ideas and old conceptions that have made this country backward in a lot of ways, and have made this state the one with the highest unemployment of any state in the northeast part of the country.

“I’m a football coach. I sit down with my staff and I look at our schedule and our squad and we say this is what we want to do and this is what we can do. And then we set priorities and make decisions as to how we can achieve our objectives. We put a plan together and we stick with it. We don’t jump from one plan to the other and we bust our butt to get it done. And that’s what has to be done with Penn State in the ‘80s. We can’t wait. It would be nice to say we can wait and in three years put together a major fund-raising campaign. We can’t wait. I am only telling you that as somebody who’s in the field. We can only hold up our finger as Number One for six more months and then we have to play the game again and we may not be Number One. Six short months to capture this magic moment. We have got to raise $7 to $10 million bucks as far as I’m concerned in the next six months or we are going to lose some things and an opportunity we have. How do you go about raising $7 to $10 million is somebody else’s concern. I’m willing to help in any way I can. We need $7 to $10 million in the next six months to get us the impetus that we need because we don’t want to lose it. I think we’ve got to take this magic moment and stick it in a jar and we’ve got to preserve it until we open it up in 1990.

“Dr. Eddy, the other day at an alumni meeting down at Pittsburgh where we had over a thousand people in Allegheny County. Stan was there and some of the others were there and the next night we went to Westmoreland County where we had over 580 people and they turned away 300 people. There is a great group out there right now wanting to get involved in it. Dr. Eddy said it the other night better than I can. He said, and he almost sounded like a football coach, we have a great chance and challenge to make our University Number One in many areas and in coming together to do it we may find out we will have as much fun doing it as we had fun doing it in New Orleans. It was a very moving speech and it hit home. I have had a lot of people come to me wanting to know how they can help. I said to you I have given 33 years, two daughters, and probably three sons to Penn State. I am ready to help where I can to make “Number One” mean more than when we stick that finger up it’s only football. We are losing a great President; we’re starting a new era. As Jim Tarman said the other night, we are fortunate that where we are that we’ve been able to get there our way. We’ve not cheated, I mean not deliberately, you never know with that thick rule book. We’ve done it with people who legitimately belong in college. We’ve set a standard in one area that I think created a challenge for us to reach in all of our areas. You are the people who are going to have to help us do it. There are a lot of us that want to get on with it.

“So, thank you very much for this wonderful resolution. I’m moved. I think you know how much I love this institution and how much I appreciate what it has meant to me and my family for 33 glorious years. 33 years of a great love affair that I have had with this place in this town. I have no regrets. I’m only anxious to get on with some other things to make it even bigger and better, not in a sense of size, but in the context of quality and influence in this country and in some of the things that I think it’s important for a major institution of this size to do. So, thank you very much. I hope I didn’t bore you with it too long.”
Best Coach Ever

"We’ve done it with people who legitimately belong in college"
 
Best Coach Ever

"We’ve done it with people who legitimately belong in college"
He's the most important person ever in the history of this school, and yet basically has been removed from its history. PSU largely is what it is today, I mean the good things, because of him. The Stalinistic way in which his name has been removed is simply disgraceful; a youngster who is going to the game tomorrow probably will never have the proper idea of what this great man did for so many. His mistake was that he was a fallible human being like all of us. Unfortunately, he stayed too long and gave people the opportunity to destroy him when he had lost his vitality and really couldn't defend himself properly.
 
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And you seriously think PSU is the 408th ranked college? Scranton and Juniata are better schools, really. Think about that.
Call me crazy but I really feel people are out to get PSU. My daughter was accepted to Grove City not PSU!! Do we really believe Grove City is better in any way shape or form than PSU. This is actually laughable. Interesting all the hype about our football team and now right before the season these 2 negative reports about PSU come out!! They could not destroy us athletically now they're going to try and do it academically. We know it's crap but either way our governing body needs to address this and question it. We have suffered enough unwarranted bad press through the years
 
Call me crazy but I really feel people are out to get PSU. My daughter was accepted to Grove City not PSU!! Do we really believe Grove City is better in any way shape or form than PSU. This is actually laughable. Interesting all the hype about our football team and now right before the season these 2 negative reports about PSU come out!! They could not destroy us athletically now they're going to try and do it academically. We know it's crap but either way our governing body needs to address this and question it. We have suffered enough unwarranted bad press through the years
I have a nephew who played football for and graduated from Grove City. he and his mom (who is a retired school teacher) simply LOVED GC. My nephew now has his PhD and is in South America with his wife and several children doing a remote course and research until December.

An interesting point about GC which kind of drives their unique culture. GC refused to implement Title XI back in 1984 stating that they were a private school and didn't take any govt funding. The case went to the Supreme Court where it held for Grove City College. GC is VERY proud that they are an independent college that is solely focused on its mission without outside influence of any kind.


 
I have a nephew who played football for and graduated from Grove City. he and his mom (who is a retired school teacher) simply LOVED GC. My nephew now has his PhD and is in South America with his wife and several children doing a remote course and research until December.

An interesting point about GC which kind of drives their unique culture. GC refused to implement Title XI back in 1984 stating that they were a private school and didn't take any govt funding. The case went to the Supreme Court where it held for Grove City College. GC is VERY proud that they are an independent college that is solely focused on its mission without outside influence of any kind.


Just based on my view of things, unless one of my children could play a sport at a mega university on scholarship, I'd much rather that he or she go to a school like Grove City than said mega university.
 
Behind PA schools like Juniata and the University of Scranton (but we did beat Susquehanna and Ursinus!).

Penn ranked 8th, Pitt ranked 235, Grove City at 225.

So What? Where does Penn State rank in regards to the number of stately elms per minority incoming freshmen? It's just as arbitrary
 
I don’t know the cost of the other schools you mention, but if cost is a factor in the ranking, that might be a major component on why PSU is ranked in the crapper.
Yes, the student average debt, greater than $10,000, is higher than most school. The student debt high balance might be because of the out of state students tuition cost.

Rutgers is #49 close to their US News ranking of #55. Rutgers merged the medical school, added to the Big Ten and created the honor program for high achievers in the last few years when their ranking has increased substantially.
 
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So What? Where does Penn State rank in regards to the number of stately elms per minority incoming freshmen? It's just as arbitrary
LOL....I know its a joke but there is something to be said for the social aspects of going to college. Not to mention the networking opps that happen as a result of going to a great university.

My family and I couldn't afford PSU so I ended up going to the lowest cost/best education I could find. It was great and worked well for me. But I spent a decade catching up to kids that graduated from "name brand" schools. I still laugh when I see people get hired from Ivy league schools just because they went to an Ivy league school. They often don't have the scrappiness/chip to be successful for the company although they continue to draw big paychecks based on the name of their alma mater. And, if you look at the rankings, much weight was given to post graduate success in both salary and awards. You won't get those big awards and out of school salary if you graduate from Edinboro or Theil. postgraduate
 
LOL....I know its a joke but there is something to be said for the social aspects of going to college. Not to mention the networking opps that happen as a result of going to a great university.

My family and I couldn't afford PSU so I ended up going to the lowest cost/best education I could find. It was great and worked well for me. But I spent a decade catching up to kids that graduated from "name brand" schools. I still laugh when I see people get hired from Ivy league schools just because they went to an Ivy league school. They often don't have the scrappiness/chip to be successful for the company although they continue to draw big paychecks based on the name of their alma mater. And, if you look at the rankings, much weight was given to post graduate success in both salary and awards. You won't get those big awards and out of school salary if you graduate from Edinboro or Theil. postgraduate
Where I worked name brands were in play. It was a mining company. We had a staff meeting that included the mine general mangers. HR is up to bat and she goes over the college recruiting plan for the technical side of the business. Big focus on Colorado School of Mines, and Missouri at Rolla, The president chimes in, "Carolyn, three of our four general managers went to Penn State, should we not be recruiting there first and foremost?". After a couple of yeah buts, she agreed that it was a good idea
 
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