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minnhawkeye said:
All this chatter about he was pinned well ref didn't call it and that is not why the kid lost still had plenty of time to outscore Teasdale. Can't leave it up to the official...Now this was told to me by many Penn State fans In Okl City when most of us felt Evans had Perry pinned in the semis . Can't blame the official(by the way I thought he was pinned also and hollered Ohhhhhhhhhh shit and then caught heck from Mrs. ) :)
Click to expand...
Evans pinned Perry? My bracket shows Perry won by staying in the middle of the mat and challenged Evans to come get him. Evans the girly man stayed near the outer circle avoiding Perry according to the official match synopsis. Evans was not impressed with himself, and after the match ate an orange in honor of his team.

Note: Synopsis written by VT fan ;)
 
minnhawkeye said:
All this chatter about he was pinned well ref didn't call it and that is not why the kid lost still had plenty of time to outscore Teasdale. Can't leave it up to the official...Now this was told to me by many Penn State fans In Okl City when most of us felt Evans had Perry pinned in the semis . Can't blame the official(by the way I thought he was pinned also and hollered Ohhhhhhhhhh shit and then caught heck from Mrs. ) :)
Click to expand...

Evans DID have Perry pinned. It was a BS non call.

So was today.

I think it's a general problem: Not enough officials are trained well enough to get in position to see the call, then make the call.
 
Azchief32 said:
Thought he was pinned too...Some of the officiating was horrible. Anybody catch that ref in the Gremmel match? If a great looking woman was laying down with her legs wide open, he would have found a way to stay on his feet.

Sometimes they call it, sometimes they don't but he was wrapped up tighter than Spyker on an ALL CAPS run and Gavin got out and won the match.
Click to expand...

SOMETIMES they call it, AND SOMETIMES they don't, but MORE OFFICIALS need to be trained to GET INTO BETTER POSITION, to MAKE THE RIGHT CALL, it's a PROBLEM right now in the SPORT....

This message brought to you by ALL CAPS.
 
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21Guns said:
Evans DID have Perry pinned. It was a BS non call.

So was today.

I think it's a general problem: Not enough officials are trained well enough to get in position to see the call, then make the call.
Click to expand...
With the athleticism of today's athlete, all the crazy funk and scrambling, it's more and more difficult for the referee to find the right positioning to make a call. One second you're there, a split second later you're not. I'd be interested to hear your breakdown on where the ref went wrong in the Teasdale match today. I mean besides not calling the fall, what exactly could he have done differently to put himself in better positioning. In my opinion, a lot of its anticipation and some guessing involved for our referees. I'll always say this though, the ref can not call a fall just because it's likely there was a fall. He HAS to see the fall to call it.
 
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johnstownsteel said:
With the athleticism of today's athlete, all the crazy funk and scrambling, it's more and more difficult for the referee to find the right positioning to make a call. One second you're there, a split second later you're not. I'd be interested to hear your breakdown on where the ref went wrong in the Teasdale match today. I mean besides not calling the fall, what exactly could he have done differently to put himself in better positioning. In my opinion, a lot of its anticipation and some guessing involved for our referees. I'll always say this though, the ref can not call a fall just because it's likely there was a fall. He HAS to see the fall to call it.
Click to expand...


Good points all around. I don't know the answer, but they're missing the calls.
 
21Guns said:
SOMETIMES they call it, AND SOMETIMES they don't, but MORE OFFICIALS need to be trained to GET INTO BETTER POSITION, to MAKE THE RIGHT CALL, it's a PROBLEM right now in the SPORT....

This message brought to you by ALL CAPS.
Click to expand...

you have a valid point. I would however, say they are trained. They are trained well in my opinion. The problem in my mind is that officials dont get properly called on the carpet for their mistakes by their federation, or their governing body or by whomever signs their checks.

I guess thats part of training, or continuing education, but thats my thoughts.

The PIAA gets coaches to give critiques, but i swear the PIAA wipes their @sses with them cause we dont see changes. Then Ive seen refs who get wind of a coach that blasted them and guess what future matches dont get called down the middle. not all refs, but their are a few major offenders.

Thats my story and Im sticking to it.
 
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dunkej01 said:
you have a valid point. I would however, say they are trained. They are trained well in my opinion. The problem in my mind is that officials dont get properly called on the carpet for their mistakes by their federation, or their governing body or by whomever signs their checks.

I guess thats part of training, or continuing education, but thats my thoughts.

The PIAA gets coaches to give critiques, but i swear the PIAA wipes their @sses with them cause we dont see changes. Then Ive seen refs who get wind of a coach that blasted them and guess what future matches dont get called down the middle. not all refs, but their are a few major offenders.

Thats my story and Im sticking to it.
Click to expand...

I think also part of it is that these are human beings we're talking about. The fans hone in on every tiny detail to justify the situations to themselves. Not every call is going to get made. This is an overall sports situation...Look at the NFL, the NBA even where missed calls directly caused losses.

I like to give the refs a little bit of slack, and they are trained, and mistakes do happen. It's just the nature of sports. There are good, not so good, outright bad...I think it gets blown out of proportion a little. We never praise refs for the 99 or whatever percent they make the correct calls.
 
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Jaret Lane, call your office. Teasdale got headlocked again today.

19913876-standard.jpg
 
I'm of the opinion that the second referee needs to be permitted to look for and call falls when the main ref is out of position. In freestyle they should add a second ref for that purpose. Too many times in a college dual a wrestler is pinned, but the main ref is on the wrong side and the second ref is standing 10 feet away with his thumb up his ass.
 
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I just got home and settled in. I figured I'd share a bit about the experience.

I'd rather go to Fargo than any other tournament in the nation, bar none. And I don't even go there and "network" or meet people, really. I just watch the wrestling, for the vast majority. It helps that I love FS/GR, but there's not another experience like it.

Finals:
Fargo's Finals sessions are so well produced. It's really an event.
In my opinion, which was from closer to the back row than it was the front, but in the dead center, Teasdale COULD have been pinned. The thing about FS that I've noticed, is that if a ref on the mat asks for fall confirmation... Someone will confirm it for him, especially at Fargo, when there's a bazillion matches. The ref on the mat did not ask, so it was not called.
Gomez is so fun to watch. A beautiful home run, when he could've just hit a double or single.
I did miss watching Murin, which disappointed me.
Happel teching McKee was pretty surprising. He was pretty dominant about it, too. I think the full week of wrestling just sorta zapped him. He didn't look the same yesterday or today.
Verkleeren had hands-down the most boring match. I was very disappointed, there.
Also not on the Trent Hidlay bandwagon, even remotely. I hope he learns how to lose. He is very talented, though.
Allar is underrated, again.
Shields-Colbray vs Moore was kinda fun. It almost felt like a WWE match, to start. Each wrestler stalked the other. First, Moore hit S-C with a hard snap that brought him almost to the mat. Then, S-C did the same. Almost like they were having a snapping contest before they agreed to start wrestling, much like a stand-off at the beginning of a pro wrestling match. S-C just wore down Moore, who probably should've been at 195.
Congrats to PA on the title. MN knew it was going to be tough to catch up, going into finals. Awesome to see it so competitive, as opposed to cadets.

I really hope they don't move the tournament. I realize it may not be the easiest/cheapest destination, but tins are cheap, hotels ain't bad, and I biased-ly don't wanna fly somewhere when I can drive 5 terrible hours to the FargoDome. One of these years, I'm gonna go to actually chat with people and enjoy the town.
 
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CropDuster507 said:
I just got home and settled in. I figured I'd share a bit about the experience.

I'd rather go to Fargo than any other tournament in the nation, bar none. And I don't even go there and "network" or meet people, really. I just watch the wrestling, for the vast majority. It helps that I love FS/GR, but there's not another experience like it.

Finals:
Fargo's Finals sessions are so well produced. It's really an event.
In my opinion, which was from closer to the back row than it was the front, but in the dead center, Teasdale COULD have been pinned. The thing about FS that I've noticed, is that if a ref on the mat asks for fall confirmation... Someone will confirm it for him, especially at Fargo, when there's a bazillion matches. The ref on the mat did not ask, so it was not called.
Gomez is so fun to watch. A beautiful home run, when he could've just hit a double or single.
I did miss watching Murin, which disappointed me.
Happel teching McKee was pretty surprising. He was pretty dominant about it, too. I think the full week of wrestling just sorta zapped him. He didn't look the same yesterday or today.
Verkleeren had hands-down the most boring match. I was very disappointed, there.
Also not on the Trent Hidlay bandwagon, even remotely. I hope he learns how to lose. He is very talented, though.
Allar is underrated, again.
Shields-Colbray vs Moore was kinda fun. It almost felt like a WWE match, to start. Each wrestler stalked the other. First, Moore hit S-C with a hard snap that brought him almost to the mat. Then, S-C did the same. Almost like they were having a snapping contest before they agreed to start wrestling, much like a stand-off at the beginning of a pro wrestling match. S-C just wore down Moore, who probably should've been at 195.
Congrats to PA on the title. MN knew it was going to be tough to catch up, going into finals. Awesome to see it so competitive, as opposed to cadets.

I really hope they don't move the tournament. I realize it may not be the easiest/cheapest destination, but tins are cheap, hotels ain't bad, and I biased-ly don't wanna fly somewhere when I can drive 5 terrible hours to the FargoDome. One of these years, I'm gonna go to actually chat with people and enjoy the town.
Click to expand...
I would like to see a Nick Lee interview after his final....
 
Chickenman Testa said:
Found a longer one guys - just posted on YouTube

View embedded media
Click to expand...
And yet another guy Cael is bringing in that makes you proud to call one of our own. I think that may be the first time I've ever heard a young guy like Nick refer to his opponent as Mr. I don't know Mr. Lee but you sure as hell can tell he was raised right.
 
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KidNittany said:
I think also part of it is that these are human beings we're talking about. The fans hone in on every tiny detail to justify the situations to themselves. Not every call is going to get made. This is an overall sports situation...Look at the NFL, the NBA even where missed calls directly caused losses.

I like to give the refs a little bit of slack, and they are trained, and mistakes do happen. It's just the nature of sports. There are good, not so good, outright bad...I think it gets blown out of proportion a little. We never praise refs for the 99 or whatever percent they make the correct calls.
Click to expand...
Refereeing and umpiring, regardless of sport, is a no-win situation for the folks in stripes. The best you can hope for is to be invisible. Complete incompetence aside (yes, there's that at every level of sport), half of the fans will hate every close call, and fans get the benefit of replay, often in slo mo.

Then there's the fan knowledge factor. After sitting at matches for over 40 years, I'm still surprised at the lack of knowledge by some of the fans and the bizarre things they say.

All that said... yes, refs should be accountable, and there is a process the NCAA uses to grade officials, but the majority are really good, better than we're giving them credit for.
 
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johnstownsteel said:
And yet another guy Cael is bringing in that makes you proud to call one of our own. I think that may be the first time I've ever heard a young guy like Nick refer to his opponent as Mr. I don't know Mr. Lee but you sure as hell can tell he was raised right.
Click to expand...

Straight out of the Retherford mold. Happy we have him. Congrats Nick!
 
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dunkej01 said:
you have a valid point. I would however, say they are trained. They are trained well in my opinion. The problem in my mind is that officials dont get properly called on the carpet for their mistakes by their federation, or their governing body or by whomever signs their checks.

I guess thats part of training, or continuing education, but thats my thoughts.

The PIAA gets coaches to give critiques, but i swear the PIAA wipes their @sses with them cause we dont see changes. Then Ive seen refs who get wind of a coach that blasted them and guess what future matches dont get called down the middle. not all refs, but their are a few major offenders.

Thats my story and Im sticking to it.
Click to expand...

Basically, you don't need a story, you just said it exactly as it is.

The problem is, you have crews who either don't make the calls consistently enough, or you get an official who gets overrun by a crazy manipulative coach throwing red flags 4 times a match and stalling to get his kid lungers....see: Illinois, Perry..
 
Wrassler223 said:
Were you there? Or just your opinion from the outside of a computer screen?
Click to expand...

Talk to everyone else. This isn't my opinion solely, at least five other people have posted on the match.

And again, I was not knocking Gavin, he was the better wrestler and won the match. He did, however, get pinned. It happens. David Taylor got pinned by Bubba Jenkins. They wrestled nearly 50 times and that would never happen, but it happened one night and it cost DT. It happened to GT too, but he got a break.
 
Last edited:
Azchief32 said:
Yea...he was wearing a yellow adidas shirt and black adidas hat yesterday. Sure he gave it a lot of thought before he got dressed that morning. But yea, keep steering those boys to us.

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/9...cited-to-be-the-coach-at-wno-for-another-year
Click to expand...

After practice, Jody will be taking the boys on another tour of Carver Hawkeye, then off to Iowa city for a tour of the best restaurants, picnic at Dan's house the next day, then nightly movies of 80's and 90's title highlights, the Banach brothers singing karaoke, and more fun for all, then finally back to Pennsylvania in a chartered black and gold bus.......

Sour grapes haha.
 
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21Guns said:
After practice, Jody will be taking the boys on another tour of Carver Hawkeye, then off to Iowa city for a tour of the best restaurants, picnic at Dan's house the next day, then nightly movies of 80's and 90's title highlights, the Banach brothers singing karaoke, and more fun for all, then finally back to Pennsylvania in a chartered black and gold bus.......

Sour grapes haha.
Click to expand...
Lol....Awesome 21...Lmao.
 
Not worried about Jody. Cael will continue to bring in top level talent from anywhere and more elites than most.

Any word on where the kid from Oregon leaning? Any scuttle but about Fix? The longer it goes, it would appear OSU is not as sure a bet as you would think, otherwise, he'd commit. Clearly, he is conflicted!
 
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Ian said:
Not worried about Jody. Cael will continue to bring in top level talent from anywhere and more elites than most.

Any word on where the kid from Oregon leaning? Any scuttle but about Fix? The longer it goes, it would appear OSU is not as sure a bet as you would think, otherwise, he'd commit. Clearly, he is conflicted!
Click to expand...

Jody is allowed to do things as he wishes. It is a bummer that he's doing them for our rivals in Iowa city, but it is, what it is, as the late Dennis Green once said....
 
Ian said:
Not worried about Jody. Cael will continue to bring in top level talent from anywhere and more elites than most.

Any word on where the kid from Oregon leaning? Any scuttle but about Fix? The longer it goes, it would appear OSU is not as sure a bet as you would think, otherwise, he'd commit. Clearly, he is conflicted!
Click to expand...
Agree. A lot of kids want to blaze their own trail and not follow in dad's footsteps.
 
Pennstate1985 said:
Agree. A lot of kids want to blaze their own trail and not follow in dad's footsteps.
Click to expand...

No telling where a kid will feel most comfortable: Kolat left PSU to go 15 miles up the road, Chance is doing the same thing.

Hey, sometimes they leave to go west, or north, or south, and then find out that it wasn't meant to be: In the mid 70's there was this kid from Altoona named Maurey, he went out to Iowa city, and never wrestled again. In high school he was nearly unbeatable.
 
Ian said:
Not worried about Jody. Cael will continue to bring in top level talent from anywhere and more elites than most.

Any word on where the kid from Oregon leaning? Any scuttle but about Fix? The longer it goes, it would appear OSU is not as sure a bet as you would think, otherwise, he'd commit. Clearly, he is conflicted!
Click to expand...
The hand-wringing over Strittmatter is beyond tired. Nobody complained about him when Nico, Jason, Jimmy, Mouse, etc., came to PSU. Or when Pletcher went tan.

Fix is part of Flo's signing day event in November. Sure, he could commit before then -- by why would he? Flo didn't line up the event, just to have its main attractions announce earlier.

Wittlake earlier (last year?) said he was interested in PSU and Oregon State. Every school will start poking around now. His golden ticket for Who's #1 this fall is a potential benefit for us -- wouldn't be surprised to see him take an unofficial while he's only 3 hrs away.
 
21Guns said:
Talk to everyone else. This isn't my opinion solely, at least five other people have posted on the match.

And again, I was not knocking Gavin, he was the better wrestler and won the match. He did, however, get pinned. It happens. David Taylor got pinned by Bubba Jenkins. They wrestled nearly 50 times and that would never happen, but it happened one night and it cost DT. It happened to GT too, but he got a break.
Click to expand...

I wasn't trying to be jerk. I officiated wrestling and football for 6 years until I took a teaching and coaching, still currently officiate little league baseball. Always got very annoyed when people make objective statements over a subjective decision. It wasn't a ruling he possibly messed up, it was a judgement decision. I understand when people get upset when officials make a mistake over a ruling but not when they make a mistake on a judgement decisions becausr circumstances change when your out there officiating in front of a huge crowd instead of calling the match on seat in the bleachers or behind a computer screen.
 
Wrassler223 said:
I wasn't trying to be jerk. I officiated wrestling and football for 6 years until I took a teaching and coaching, still currently officiate little league baseball. Always got very annoyed when people make objective statements over a subjective decision. It wasn't a ruling he possibly messed up, it was a judgement decision. I understand when people get upset when officials make a mistake over a ruling but not when they make a mistake on a judgement decisions becausr circumstances change when your out there officiating in front of a huge crowd instead of calling the match on seat in the bleachers or behind a computer screen.
Click to expand...

Absolutely and I agree with you, actually. Let me try to be more clear: I think, in officiating, as in other elements of sports, some rules, and areas of enforcement are vital to the job: Most officials and most crews in fact, get the bulk of the job right, do a hard job, and do a damn good job. I think that SOME areas, such as a pin call in wrestling, or a holding call in football, or a charge/block call in basketbal...etc....you just cannot get that kind of call wrong. Miss that call, and it really DOES change the outcome of the game. Do you guys get it right most of the time? Absolutely. But does it matter if you miss a pin call? Big time. If I was an official, and believe me I do not want your job, but if I was and I missed a pin call, I would be kicking myself about it.
 
CropDuster507 said:
I just got home and settled in. I figured I'd share a bit about the experience.

I'd rather go to Fargo than any other tournament in the nation, bar none. And I don't even go there and "network" or meet people, really. I just watch the wrestling, for the vast majority. It helps that I love FS/GR, but there's not another experience like it.

Finals:
Fargo's Finals sessions are so well produced. It's really an event.
In my opinion, which was from closer to the back row than it was the front, but in the dead center, Teasdale COULD have been pinned. The thing about FS that I've noticed, is that if a ref on the mat asks for fall confirmation... Someone will confirm it for him, especially at Fargo, when there's a bazillion matches. The ref on the mat did not ask, so it was not called.
Gomez is so fun to watch. A beautiful home run, when he could've just hit a double or single.
I did miss watching Murin, which disappointed me.
Happel teching McKee was pretty surprising. He was pretty dominant about it, too. I think the full week of wrestling just sorta zapped him. He didn't look the same yesterday or today.
Verkleeren had hands-down the most boring match. I was very disappointed, there.
Also not on the Trent Hidlay bandwagon, even remotely. I hope he learns how to lose. He is very talented, though.
Allar is underrated, again.
Shields-Colbray vs Moore was kinda fun. It almost felt like a WWE match, to start. Each wrestler stalked the other. First, Moore hit S-C with a hard snap that brought him almost to the mat. Then, S-C did the same. Almost like they were having a snapping contest before they agreed to start wrestling, much like a stand-off at the beginning of a pro wrestling match. S-C just wore down Moore, who probably should've been at 195.
Congrats to PA on the title. MN knew it was going to be tough to catch up, going into finals. Awesome to see it so competitive, as opposed to cadets.

I really hope they don't move the tournament. I realize it may not be the easiest/cheapest destination, but tins are cheap, hotels ain't bad, and I biased-ly don't wanna fly somewhere when I can drive 5 terrible hours to the FargoDome. One of these years, I'm gonna go to actually chat with people and enjoy the town.
Click to expand...
Great Stuff Crop! Appreciate the read.
 
21Guns said:
Absolutely and I agree with you, actually. Let me try to be more clear: I think, in officiating, as in other elements of sports, some rules, and areas of enforcement are vital to the job: Most officials and most crews in fact, get the bulk of the job right, do a hard job, and do a damn good job. I think that SOME areas, such as a pin call in wrestling, or a holding call in football, or a charge/block call in basketbal...etc....you just cannot get that kind of call wrong. Miss that call, and it really DOES change the outcome of the game. Do you guys get it right most of the time? Absolutely. But does it matter if you miss a pin call? Big time. If I was an official, and believe me I do not want your job, but if I was and I missed a pin call, I would be kicking myself about it.
Click to expand...
Allow me to suggest then that you never become an official because you will eventually get that call wrong.
 
21Guns said:
Q and Bainey are right down the road now......so Jody might have a little competition in a few years...probably not enough to make a dent, but something to think about, lol.
Click to expand...
Q and Bainey ? Who do you mean 21 ?
 
spyker said:
Q and Bainey ? Who do you mean 21 ?
Click to expand...

Quentin is working with Jason Bainey, the head coach at West Branch(2015 District 6 champions AA) in forming a wrestling club, in the vein and style of young guns, right outside the Happy Valley area in Philipsburg.
 
That's great. You knew it was only a matter of time. The center of the wrestling "world" is shifting to Central Pa.
 
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