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2017 Preseason Practice Articles/Discussion


Would be interested in some takes on Cam Brown. Watching him last year, wasn't sure if he shouldn't be at DE. Would be great if he works out at LB.

I thought he was below average in 2016. Seemed like he made a lot of tackles while the other team scored a lot of points whenever he was in last year.

Then I watched the B/W game and my opinion changed. He looked instinctive, like a natural linebacker cut from the same cloth as Bell, Hull, and Mauti.

There were a couple of short yardage conversion plays in the B/W game where he hit the RB at the LOS and dropped him for nothing. He was also delivering blows everywhere else on field.

IMO, Cam Brown has it as a football player.
 
I thought he was below average in 2016. Seemed like he made a lot of tackles while the other team scored a lot of points whenever he was in last year.

Then I watched the B/W game and my opinion changed. He looked instinctive, like a natural linebacker cut from the same cloth as Bell, Hull, and Mauti.

There were a couple of short yardage conversion plays in the B/W game where he hit the RB at the LOS and dropped him for nothing. He was also delivering blows everywhere else on field.

IMO, Cam Brown has it as a football player.

Agree, he was all over the field in the Blue White game. Very impressive.
 

summary for those that do not want to click on the link (which I understand):

Game is changing, CFJ wants speed at all positions, and guys like Shaka, Brown, Koa etc......can play in this speed era at LB or DE where they could not play there in the past, especially in the Big 10.


As I read the article I was thinking of the Alabama defense which has been so deep and allowed freshman to train to get bigger so that Alabama gets the size from the older days and the speed of todays game.......Good comments from the PSU players listed above, from Pry and CJF.

Written by someone who does not sound like a fan, nor a potshot taking PSU imbedded reporter, the second part is odd for a DJ article.
 
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That photo of the D line is impressive... One thing that I've noted during recruiting discussions, is that Penn State hasn't brought in the classic "war daddy" one technique guys, with the massive lower bodies. The D linemen certainly look stout and ready, but the D linemen look a little smaller (lower body, at least) than what teams like the most talented ACC and SEC teams (Alabama, LSU, Clemson, and FSU). This is especially true of some of the D ends.

Obviously, our D line has been very effective over the last couple of years without the "war daddy" types. I wonder, however, whether this is a case of Penn State just bringing in the best athletes possible and they just haven't had many of the large lower body types? Or is this an example of a different philosophy for Penn State's D line, choosing to have smaller D linemen that have more endurance as opposed to huge guys who may wear out as the game goes on? This could be even more of a factor when Penn State rotates in so many D linemen.
 
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#1 and #2 are clearly absurd, but Trace has to prove he can become an accurate passer, because last year he was not. He has a lot of great attributes but accurate passing is not one of them.

If you're right, then I was watching the wrong QB last year.
 
That photo of the D line is impressive... One thing that I've noted during recruiting discussions, is that Penn State hasn't brought in the classic "war daddy" one technique guys, with the massive lower bodies. The D linemen certainly look stout and ready, but the D linemen look a little smaller (lower body, at least) than what teams like the most talented ACC and SEC teams (Alabama, LSU, Clemson, and FSU). This is especially true of some of the D ends.

Obviously, our D line has been very effective over the last couple of years without the "war daddy" types. I wonder, however, whether this is a case of Penn State just bringing in the best athletes possible and they just haven't had many of the large lower body types? Or is this an example of a different philosophy for Penn State's D line, choosing to have smaller D linemen that have more endurance as opposed to huge guys who may wear out as the game goes on? This could be even more of a factor when Penn State rotates in so many D linemen.
good points....we do see Bolds and Hansard in the 2017 class as playing inside at 300# or so; a couple additions still possible for 2018 class

in general, the demand for good interior DL in elite football programs is greater than the supply; all the top teams are looking for talent and size on the D-line
 
summary for those that do not want to click on the link:

Game is changing, CFJ wants speed at all positions, and guys like Shaka, Brown, Koa etc......can play in this speed era at LB or DE where they could not play there in the past, especially in the Big 10.


As I read the article I was thinking of the Alabama defense which has been so deep and allowed freshman to train to get bigger so that Alabama gets the size from the older days and the speed of todays game.......Good comments from the PSU players listed above, from Pry and CJF.

Written by someone who does not sound like a fan, nor a potshot taking PSU imbedded reporter.

Thanks for the summary. I wouldn't click on a Jones article for love nor money.
 

My brother and I just talked about this. The LBers we've recruited have been very undersized relative to the past. We came to the conclusion that CJF is recruiting for speed and will let the young LB'ers grow into the position.

fact is, offenses are now much more diverse and put a lot of pressure on LBers in pass protection. There was a thread on how unstoppable a well executed wheel route is with Barkley. Same is true of tOSU last year with Samuels. You also have a LB like Cam Brown who is 6-5 so has a great wingspan in pass protection. I think we are seeing a blurring of the lines between S and LBer, especially if you have lock down corners. The concern would be stopping the power run games (Webber at tOSU and UM).
 
My brother and I just talked about this. The LBers we've recruited have been very undersized relative to the past. We came to the conclusion that CJF is recruiting for speed and will let the young LB'ers grow into the position.

fact is, offenses are now much more diverse and put a lot of pressure on LBers in pass protection. There was a thread on how unstoppable a well executed wheel route is with Barkley. Same is true of tOSU last year with Samuels. You also have a LB like Cam Brown who is 6-5 so has a great wingspan in pass protection. I think we are seeing a blurring of the lines between S and LBer, especially if you have lock down corners. The concern would be stopping the power run games (Webber at tOSU and UM).
To your point, go back to the B1G championship game 4th qtr - Bell makes a stop, and Gus Johnson refers to him as a safety. Not completely wrong given the variety of defensive schemes used.
 
I'm not sure how many games you guys watched last year. I am not talking about the whole jump-ball controversy. I am talking about badly missing a lot of open receivers on a lot of plays. I mean, it was obvious.

The only question mark on defense is the affect of two guys who went pro that probably shouldn't have. This is the last year something like that will be a cause for concern as the depth of talent we will have going forward will help insulate us. We are beyond stacked at the secondary and finally have good LB talent again.

I've got no problem with Trace's accuracy. None. Trace had to escape in a lot of situations last year. My only concern with him is that he often thinks he can throw the ball further than he can. That results in some wounded ducks. But he was a soph so expect he will play within himself much more in 2017. While the kid is not the most physically gift QB I've ever seen, all of his intangibles are incredible. (making the right reads, escaping pressure, keeping his eyes downfield, using his teammates, knowing when to run, knowing how to protect, putting the ball where his guy can make a play, general confidence, not getting rattled...).
 
My brother and I just talked about this. The LBers we've recruited have been very undersized relative to the past. We came to the conclusion that CJF is recruiting for speed and will let the young LB'ers grow into the position.

fact is, offenses are now much more diverse and put a lot of pressure on LBers in pass protection. There was a thread on how unstoppable a well executed wheel route is with Barkley. Same is true of tOSU last year with Samuels. You also have a LB like Cam Brown who is 6-5 so has a great wingspan in pass protection. I think we are seeing a blurring of the lines between S and LBer, especially if you have lock down corners. The concern would be stopping the power run games (Webber at tOSU and UM).

Generally agree, but the 2018 class has one such LB in Katshir who is approx. 200#, but then two bigger guy in Luketa and Tarburton, both listed at 240# or more, with some speculation that Tarburton may grow out of the position. In the 2017 class, you definitely see the emphasis on speed and mobility with Brailyn Franklin and Faison-Walden, and a traditional size LB in Brooks. Seems like Coach Franklin is trying to achieve some balance in size and speed, with the tilt toward speed.
 
To your point, go back to the B1G championship game 4th qtr - Bell makes a stop, and Gus Johnson refers to him as a safety. Not completely wrong given the variety of defensive schemes used.

yeah...reminds me of what Seattle did with their big S Kam Chancellor and a couple of shut down corners. Kam plays LB and S depending upon game situation and they hope the CBs can play man on the WR with no help over the top.

It seems like PSU recruits a lot more DB's than in the past. I could be wrong on this as I haven't done the research. But we've seen several kids come in as S and end up playing LBer. Also, with teams happy to play true Frosh, teams go 60-70 deep in terms of seeing the field. Flexibility along with situational are key. Teams counter this, like PSU, with no-huddle offenses limiting the D's opportunity to sub in.

Such a game of chess. I don't feel like the average fan has a feel for this today. You don't see coaches/announcers talking about it much. I mean, I can see DC's matching certain S with LBer and DE in a package given their complimentary skill sets. I can see DC calls being made that tell the D that a S is going to play more run support which tells the DB to prevent his man from going deep but allowing them to be a little softer underneath (knowing he won't have over the top coverage so don't give up a TD).
 
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Generally agree, but the 2018 class has one such LB in Katshir who is approx. 200#, but then two bigger guy in Luketa and Tarburton, both listed at 240# or more, with some speculation that Tarburton may grow out of the position. In the 2017 class, you definitely see the emphasis on speed and mobility with Brailyn Franklin and Faison-Walden, and a traditional size LB in Brooks. Seems like Coach Franklin is trying to achieve some balance in size and speed, with the tilt toward speed.
totally agree. fact is, nobody really knows how these kids will mature. David Robinson was a low level small forward and turned out to be a 7 foot dominating center in his years at Navy. Navarro Bowman was a 6-0, 215 kid coming out of HS and never grew past 6 feet tall but is 245 lbs.

So, my point is I can see getting a lot of kids in that 6 foot to 6-3 range and watching the mature physically. If nothing else, they are great kids for special teams coverages.

I wonder how much is done with body types and mapping how a kid looks at age 17 and what their body type tendencies might be given college nutrition and workout regimens.
 
You guys absolutely kill me. You can't be a fan, but also see facts?

http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/755

#76.

Why is it so many of you can't root for the players yet see things for what they are? This board takes homerism to a whole new level.

I don't think those numbers tell the whole story.
  • First, TM wasn't bad at 58%.
  • Second, Teams played up to stop the run, limiting short throw opportunities. Short throws end up with better completion percentages.
  • Third, this forced PSU to throw deep more often than the average team. And long throws are harder to complete.
  • Fourth, PSU's O-line was improved from 2015 but still wasn't very good. Especially in that we lost three OT's during the season. So McS had to improvise and throw on the run more.
Just check "pass efficiency". McS was ranked #13 in the nation. the power five ones ranking ahead of him were OK, Washington, Pitt, USC, OK St. NC and Texas Tech. Of those, Mayfield, Browning, Darnold, Rudolph, Trubisky and Mahomes either are or will be first day picks in the NFL draft.
 
You guys absolutely kill me. You can't be a fan, but also see facts?

http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/755

#76.

Why is it so many of you can't root for the players yet see things for what they are? This board takes homerism to a whole new level.

FIRE. TRACE. MCSORLEY. :eek:

Seriously, we get your position on McSorley. Some here don't and will not agree with you. Can you shut up about it now?
 


Wow, that last ball security drill is BRUTAL. They have to keep their attention on fitting their feet through every single little hole in addition to being swatted and poked by a bat from their left and a football helmet on a stick from their right.
 
I wonder how much is done with body types and mapping how a kid looks at age 17 and what their body type tendencies might be given college nutrition and workout regimens.

I think Franklin is quite good at observing and projecting such info; as an aside, that is also a critical factor in wrestling recruiting, where there are only 10 spots in the lineup, and 9.9 scholarships to parse out. I wouldn't be surprised if Cael and Franklin talk about teenage growth trends, which turns out to be an important part of putting a team together.
 
I think Franklin is quite good at observing and projecting such info; as an aside, that is also a critical factor in wrestling recruiting, where there are only 10 spots in the lineup, and 9.9 scholarships to parse out. I wouldn't be surprised if Cael and Franklin talk about teenage growth trends, which turns out to be an important part of putting a team together.

its a big part of the NFL....pre-draft, there are all kinds of measurements and mappings to see how a guy might fill out after going from a part time program (like college, where schools are limited in what they can do) to the NFL where they are 7x24x365 pro athletes. There also improved techniques (see JJ Watt). I just don't know what kind of access programs have to 16 and 17 year old kids. Perhaps that is why they all have these camps now.
 
Wait a minute...not one pot-shot at Joe or the Joebots...no subtle jab at Penn State's inferiority to the big 2...no pro-buckeye slant mixed in. Who the hell really wrote that??
Yea right. Of course this a-hole had to use Boeheim as his example. Out of 351 D-I coaches he uses Boeheim?? SMH what a DB.
 
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Here is the article for those that won't open. The other thread got deleted. Jones must have flagged it.

STATE COLLEGE – In so many ways, college football began fundamentally changing in the mid-‘90s with press pass defenses and then in the early ‘00s with prevalent spread offenses. But it took a little while for coaches to realize that different body types were needed for positions that never would’ve been dreamt of previously.

And that’s how you’re getting not just faster but quite a bit lighter players fighting for starting positions in the power layers of the defense.

It’s how Shaka Toney is being allowed a real shot to be a contributing Penn State defensive end while listed at 218 pounds. How Koa Farmer (listed at 231) and Cameron Brown (222) are recognized as major factors as PSU outside linebackers.


Less than a decade ago, these would be weights you’d associate with Dave Robinson more than half a century ago. And the Green Bay Packer ended up playing linebacker in the NFL at 245.

But offenses changed the game. And the game has changed the players.

At Penn State football media day yesterday Farmer, speaking of Toney, explained a lot about why:

“Guys who can play multiple positions like that, they’re really dangerous. He looks like a linebacker out there. But when he’s coming off the edge he’s arguably one of the best pass rushers on our team.”


Brown, Toney and Farmer have three things in common that compensate for bulk at what traditionally have been power positions – speed, length and smarts. They are all bright guys. They see what to do, where to be and can get there quickly.

Now, for instance, will Toney be an every-down DE as a redshirt freshman? Highly doubtful. Not this year anyway. But that’s not the point. He’s a player who can be comfortable in virtually any space on the field, ranging into all three layers of the defense. He can be used in a variety of ways against a variety of plays right now.

screen-shot-2017-08-05-at-50235-pmpng-d5decb52708c9be3.png

James Franklin answers questions on Saturday at Penn State football media day.


PennLive/Joe Hermitt
Playing stand-up defensive ends as de facto linebackers is nothing new. But rationalizing one that’s barely 220 pounds is different. That Toney could be legitimized yesterday at such a weight and position by none other than the head coach was a sign of where the game is headed. Said Franklin regarding a question about his D-line in general, without a prompt about Toney:

“Shaka is a guy that everybody is going to say, ‘Well, he's not 260 pounds, so you can't play D-end in the Big Ten.’ I don't know about that.

“I remember walking in during spring ball and telling our coaches, ‘Change your mindset. Don't allow the fact that this guy's not this or that, and you say, Well, he can't play because of this.’

“Watch the tape, and watch how he's straining in the run game now more than he ever has. Watch him in the pass game on his third step before the offensive tackle is taking his first. He's going to bring something to us that we haven't had, to be honest with you.”

toney-media-daypng-8d7e272526dc0bfb.png

Toney talks with a reporter during Penn State media day on Saturday at Beaver Stadium.

One way or another, that’s a guy who’s going to play somewhere – in the game that’s played today.

Toney grasps why there are doubters based on precedent:

“I understand what you’re saying. A lot of people don’t believe an undersized guy can play defensive end. They’re going to use the eye test and some people don’t pass it. But it’s all about your heart and how your teammates support you. And they show me that I’ve got what it takes to do it.”

Toney says he is not his listed 218 but “in the 220s.” Regardless, he is playing alongside like body types who’ve already made major contributions in similar ways – Farmer and Brown prime among them.

“It’s a speed game. I have enough speed and I convert it into power.”

It’s not just about more passing. It’s less about violent contact and more about using and covering space. So, even if he winds up as only a situational DE, used primarily on passing downs, and an outside linebacker otherwise, Toney will be versatile enough to be a guy you want on the field somehow – fast, rangy, sinewy, able to deflect passes and cover large swaths of ground. And a liberal percentage of those situations will be unscripted plays that have come undone.

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Penn State defensive coordinator Brent Pry answers a question on Saturday during Penn State football media day.

PennLive/Joe Hermitt
For traditionalists pining for the days of punishing physical football played in confined spaces, get used to the new day, says PSU defensive coordinator Brent Pry:

“You’re able to downsize and play with guys on the perimeter who maybe don’t have the size you used to want. But at the same time, it’s more about techniques. You go back and watch our defensive ends on game film, those guys stood up [at the snap] a bunch. They’re playing on their feet [rather than with a hand in the dirt] And we’re not playing a 3-4.

“How much blend is there now? Could Cam Brown play defensive end for us? Could Koa?”

The answer is: well, probably.

“When you check the technique box at defensive end now, there are more things that would have a similar technique in the linebacker group.”

penn-state-media-day-practice-aug-5-2017-b77686f665bc8630.jpg

Penn State safety Koa Farmer runs a drill during practice at the Lasch fields on Saturday

PennLive/Joe Hermitt
And those linebackers don’t look like they used to, either. Brown is a perfect example of a new-age OLB who looks like he could be at home in a 2-3 zone defense – Jim Boeheim’s.

Brown’s uniform switch from No. 31 – as a famous LB number is PSU lore as there is, used by Shane Conlan, Andre Collins and Paul Posluszny – to No. 6 is a metaphor as much as a reality. Not only does a single digit more suit Brown’s wiry 6-5, 220-pound physique, it more fits a linebacker who can also play like a safety or be employed in special teams and come up with a game-changing punt block. Brown certainly can.

“I understand completely that back in the day I probably wouldn’t be playing linebacker,” said Brown. “I think I’m playing it now because people are looking for linebackers who can get across the field, sideline to sideline. Rangy. And my length definitely helps with that, in passing situations especially.

“It’s not about the big running backs and the big linebackers. It’s about who can get to the flats the fastest, who can cover the field.

“You see linebackers now covering deep middle, running 30 and 40 yards down the field. You’ve gotta run and flip your hips. As a pass rusher, be long enough to get around the bend.”

screen-shot-2017-08-05-at-51217-pmpng-5652d47f15d64b85.png

Penn State head coach James Franklin answers questions during the team's annual media day on Saturday in State College.

PennLive/Joe Hermitt
And both Brown and Toney are still scholastic sophomores. Their bodies will fill out like academic senior Farmer who’s now more than 30 pounds heavier (he claims 237) than he was when he arrived three years ago at 205.

“My Poly-genes are kicking in,” Farmer joked about his half-Polynesian heritage.

Farmer rarely played defense at all in high school. He was inserted only occasionally a position-less “athlete” to shadow offensive threats.

But he is now the prototype for the new-school linebacker – lean, fast and long-armed. I asked if he has watched much football from past decades. Does he think it looks strange?

“I think it was more violent. We have more rules now concerning the brain and targeting. Football back then was violent – period.

“We don’t have two-a-days anymore. They probably had four-a-days. I think it was a lot tougher. I think football players were a lot tougher, period.

“But football is evolving. More of a passing game. More speed, less contact.”

And in this game, a smaller size can fit all.
 
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I'm not sure how many games you guys watched last year. I am not talking about the whole jump-ball controversy. I am talking about badly missing a lot of open receivers on a lot of plays. I mean, it was obvious.

The only question mark on defense is the affect of two guys who went pro that probably shouldn't have. This is the last year something like that will be a cause for concern as the depth of talent we will have going forward will help insulate us. We are beyond stacked at the secondary and finally have good LB talent again.
I watched the same games you watched....I just watched them sober
 
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So if I'm not mistaken the current guess on the two deep looks something like this? Ones-OLB-Bowen, MLB-Cabinda, OLB-Farmer
Twos-OLB-Smith/J. Miller, MLB-Cooper, OLB-Brown
Threes-Some combo of Faison-Walden, Nick Scott, Brooks, and Jan Johnson
 
So if I'm not mistaken the current guess on the two deep looks something like this? Ones-OLB-Bowen, MLB-Cabinda, OLB-Farmer
Twos-OLB-Smith/J. Miller, MLB-Cooper, OLB-Brown
Threes-Some combo of Faison-Walden, Nick Scott, Brooks, and Jan Johnson

1st string right now is Will: Smith; Mike: Cabinda; Sam: Farmer
 
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