By no means am I laying all of the blame at Brands' feet. I was simply responding to the notion that Iowa will contend year in and year out. The facts dispute that idea. Plain and simple.
2018 got more Interesting...scUM lands an AA
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By no means am I laying all of the blame at Brands' feet. I was simply responding to the notion that Iowa will contend year in and year out. The facts dispute that idea. Plain and simple.
In the last five years, only three teams have attained 7 or more AA's, and all three teams were over 100 points. 7 AA's is hard to do, and I'd bet the under all day every day on that. The problem that Michigan has with that lineup, while very good, is that they have a lot of AA/R12 type guys but no impossibly good studs. What usually trips teams like that up is a bad seed or matchup at nationals that sends one of those upper echelon guys into the consi bracket early and where they meet another upper echelon type guy and go R12 or take 7th instead of 4th. Not saying what you typed can't happen, but history says it will be difficult.Nice! I took a stab too, fairly conservative:
I wasn't accusing you of such Chris. We're good. In fact, I believe having and selling a vision is a very big part of being a high level head coach in this sport, so Brands does have to accept some blame for finishing 4th and 5th lately.
I still don't know how Cenzo took Massa down bent over backwards.
I don't think it's talked about enough how incredible that was because the trip really falls apart and Cenzo has to recover from a very vulnerable spot. But Massa for some reason doesn't capitalize, and leaves his leg where Cenzo can grab it clean and finish. Maybe Massa was surprised and didn't really understand where he was because there was a solid moment he could've had the TD and backpoints if he'd only slightly adjusted.
Simple. Cenzo is Man of Magic, not to be confused with Magic Man.
The inside trip got KINDA stuffed, but there was enough umphf to get both on the mat and vulnerable. Cenzo kept Massa's left arm and it was Cenzo with the quicker hips that allowed him to adjust and snare the leg with his right hand and finish.
Yeah. I mean, Cenzo never stopped wrestling even when things went upside down, and Massa was kind of lost, despite that at nearly every moment of the drawn-out sequence Massa was in a better position to capitalize.
The difference between drilling and situational practice. One was lost as to the next move. The other did it last week in practice.
Maybe, I think Logan Massa could win the title at 165 next year, it wouldn't shock me at all.
And that makes Michigan a less viable team how?
Your original point was that they are mostly composed of R12/low AA types. Nitpick all you want about "impossibly" good wrestlers, but there are only 4 of them total in all of college wrestling: Zain, Jason, Bo, and Snyder. So your standard is "impossibly" high.
Ive read the same things as you and I'm not sure I buy that this is the case now, or at least it's not something that is more than a discussion.
But the prospect of a possible Hall-Imar is good enough to make me buy in.
I never said it makes them less viable. I said I saw them as a 75 point, 5th place team and have explained why. You said that you thought they were a 91 point, 3rd place team and have explained why. I said we'll see how it turns out. Don't know why you continue to try to convince me that I'm wrong on an event that hasn't occurred. We have different opinions. Just let it go.
Definitely a stronger dual line-up, but I don't see them matching up very well against PSU.
149-184 is lion country, and depending who Cael puts on the mat, 133 is the only spot they might be a significant favorite.
At NCAAs they could push for 3rd, but I don't think they have the firepower to challenge tOSU for 2nd.
149-184 is lion country, and depending who Cael puts on the mat, 133 is the only spot they might be a significant favorite.
At NCAAs they could push for 3rd, but I don't think they have the firepower to challenge tOSU for 2nd.
Maybe so, but I just remember his matches against Gingrich and Lawson. He was just a big strong dude whose best move was a push out. I also remember Gingrich beating at Big Tens one year.
I know he is probably better 3 years later, but I also think Nevills is more skilled than either JG or JL.
Your memory is a bit clouded by Coon's true frosh year where he did not have a good post season. After that he was 2nd and 3rd at NCAAs as a true soph and true junior. He gave Snyder a tough match in the BIG finals in 2016. I would definitely have him as a favorite over Nevills as of today. Another year in the room for Nick and that could change.
It was definitely Cenzo's quick hips. And the hips had help.
In order to put weight on Cenzo to take him to his back, Massa threw himself into Cenzo, which wrapped Massa's right leg around Cenzo. That stopped Cenzo's forward-push goal from the trip, true, but it also put Cenzo in something like a suplay position. That is the key point, I think. A guy being Suplayed for the first time might think at first, "woo hoo, we're going down and I'm on top of the other guy, but he discovers that somehow he never actually lands on top of the other guy.
In Cenzo's suplay-like situation, in suplay fashion, Cenzo had contact with Earth, while Massa was in midair. Therefore, on the way down, Cenzo started his quick-hips cat turn, but Massa, not touching Earth, could not resist that, unless he wanted Cenzo on top of Massa upon landing. Massa would have had to disentangle his leg(s) to post his leg(s) to get something to push off of upon landing.
But Massa was not able to disentangle his left leg. Part of Massa's inability was that Massa was not sure what to do; that's what Tikk thinks also. In addition, though, I see that Massa's left leg was also trapped by Cenzo's right leg (from the original trip), so I doubt Massa *could* have disengaged quickly enough to post Massa's left leg to power a push into Cenzo. In addition, Massa could not land on top of Cenzo's chest because, mid-fall, Cenzo had used Cenzo's whizzer to fix Massa's position in the air and then Cenzo used his quick hips to do a cat-turn and get his body beside Massa instead of under Massa. That's the kind of thing a guy doing a suplay can do.
The only thing Massa ever managed to post to push off of was his left elbow, but that was a left elbow and not a left hand, and it was too late and too weak, mostly because of the pressure Cenzo was putting on that post via the whizzer.
To re-iterate: Cenzo's magic becomes more understandable if we realize that his tumble backward turned into something similar to a suplay, which gives the Earth-touching guy an ability to make a cat-turn, and the airborne guy difficulty in doing much, unless and until the airborne guy can manage to post a leg, which Cenzo never let Massa do.
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I respectfully disagree (edit: with the bolded part).
As mentioned in my previous post; it *looked* like Massa was in a better position, but actually Massa's position, most of the time, was similar to that of a guy being suplayed, so Massa's position was not actually good. He had, maybe, a small window of time to disentangle his leg, maybe, but he certainly missed that very small window, if it ever existed.
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The other thing I thought Massa might have tried is to flatten Cenzo out by fighting Cenzo's back arch with a back arch of Massa's own. Massa had the underhooks and the legs in to do that. But maybe Massa was too high on Cenzo's body, or maybe Cenzo's whizzer and cat turn had powered up too early for Massa to deploy his own counter arch, because such a late deployment would have resulted in a flattened Cenzo on top of a flattened Massa upon landing.
[edit: I just watched again. Maybe Massa did try his counter-arch and simply lost that fight because Cenzo had better position, timing, or strength.]
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I think Massa kept his legs wrapped around Cenzo too long, thereby missing his chance to post his legs and stay belly down and on top of Cenzo, for a reason. The reason is that Massa was trying his counter arch because he was afraid to get thrown over or to the side of Cenzo.
Remember in the Final when IMar tried to throw Cenzo over as IMar fell to his back? Cenzo did not get thrown over by IMar because Cenzo was able to release his right hand and post it.
For Massa, Cenzo had both of Massa's arms overhooked, so Massa could not post either hand, so Massa needed leg(s) around Cenzo's body to counter Cenzo's back arch/bridge to avoid being thrown off of Cenzo. But that merely delayed the problem for Massa, because it let Cenzo cat turn in mid air because Cenzo was touching Earth but Massa was not.
In short, these Penn State wrestlers just seem to be one step ahead, again and again.
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Heard those rumors floating around St Louis.
Could happen. I am inclined to think many of Hall's decisions are a bit complex. Like how to balance folkstyle/freestyle aspirations. 174 with a handful of additional muscle pounds seems to be a better fit than constantly cutting to 165. However, if the additional handful of muscle pounds is not going to happen then a cut to 165 for a kid who struggled to keep his weight up at 174 is probably not a struggle or hindrance to either goal set.
Dunke, what's the deal with the title of this thread (scUM)?
The people I know over there are all good dudes.
The people I know over there are all good dudes.
That's plan "B".
Plan "A" is Cenzo staying at 165 and involves strict adherence to the Salt Lake City diet, aka the "Marie Osmond Mormon Based Eating Strategy". Stubborn belly fat, bu bye!
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Ok, I'll give up. You guys just don't understand. You've never seen a UCLA basketball coach pushed out or a Notre Dame football coach pushed out. It's about expectations.
They aren't in the title conversation. Not this past year, next year or the year after that. They might finish higher than than most, but 5th is not good enough in Iowa.
We understand. We just disagree.
We've also seen those cases and will raise you a Nebraska and a Texas and a Georgia.
Iowa signed Brands in 2015 -- 5 years after their last title -- to an extension thru 2020. He's not going anywhere, any time soon.
Consider it a character flaw. On their part of course.
It is a message board, and not a bad one at that...despite the giddiness. Sorry, but Brands isn't going anywhere, by all accounts. I also believe he's the right man for the job, and have much respect for him.
Just prepare to pound your head against the wall making
Never made any comment related to the message board being bad or my respect for him.
Great wrestler, mediocre coach. It's as easy as that.
I'm confused. You predict Brands will get booted, we disagree, and you keep pushing. Time will tell, I guess, and frankly, my dog's not in this fight, so there's not much left to say.
The only opponent Nevills was uncompetitive with last season was Snyder.
Nevills will be right there with Coon.
