He's had a strange career. Looked like a guy who would be contending for titles for years and then just faded to the background of 133.
Wrestling 2023 NCAA Bracket Release Thread
- Thread starter Thenightking
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I wrestled at USAFA from 2009-2013, so graduated the same year as Cole Von Ohlen.
Did you ever wrestle Scott Frohardt? He was one of our last AAs. Believe he graduated in 2002. Was deployed with him a few years ago. Good guy.
I am not really nervous about this match in terms of RBY’s losing, just a tiny smidge of nervousness. That said, I would’ve rather had him face the 4,5,6 or 7 seed than to face Nagao again. I don’t know enough about Nagao to say whether the kid is a turner on top but it sure as Hell looked like RBY was trying to just not get turned rather than to escape.
All that said, RBY is an all-time great and the likelihood of him losing to a Freshman is minuscule.
How does a guy who beat Fix, Mueller, Myers, Lizak, Pletcher, Wilson, Gomez, Byrd ... how does that guy never make the podium?
One of life's mysteries -- like f-ing magnets, how do they work?
I just went through 149 and I got Murin with another BR loss, to Mauller this time. That's a tough back side draw, too.
That's where my rational head was at, but I couldn't stomach it so I picked the upset.
I am rooting for Murin to get on the podium then he can lose out after that but I couldn't imagine him being a 4 time Blood Rounder, good lord.
Also, if he could trade draws with Van Ness, he would almost certainly AA, likely semis.
Even crazier, all those except Byrd and Mueller were in the same year. His freshman year seems to be a clear outlier.
He's always been right there. He's never lost to a guy at ncaa's who didn't AA at that tournament.
I'm personally am a huge Philippi fan also because he showed the world the "hide your arm" defense against ADS isn't really an advantage.
Yeah, it happens that way if you lose in the BR every year. LOL.
Yeah, SVN's draw is a lot better than Murin's. A lot. Obviously, he's not going to get past Yianni, but he has a reasonable chance to get there.
I think people are downplaying Henson, he's clearly looked better than Van Ness this year, Shayne is an underdog in that match. My only thing is the season Van Ness had was going to get him a very good second round opponent, I'd prefer a true freshman who let's it fly than a seasoned vet like John Millner who has podiumed twice and will hammer you from top for days.
The language was, "all wrestlers from the same qualifying tournament will be separated through the round of 32 competitors.". An 8/9 match-up could still happen in the old days. When the Big Ten expanded to 12, then 14 teams, this became a near impossibility. The B1G conference has had as many as 12 (or is it 13?) qualifiers in the recent past. That number, with 16 bouts in the first round of the Championship would make it, as said, nearly impossible to bracket.
I was not thrilled when RBY drew him in the blood round of their freshman year. Fantastic match, and with hindsight a springboard for what RBY has become.
From a PA perspective: Phillippi was a 3x state champ. But he was frustrating to watch, because he'd beat a good wrestler 13-4 in the regular season and then 2-1 at states. In Hershey he became lightweight Tony Nelson -- shut down his offense because he was so good on top.
Historically fair, though it really wouldn't take much to separate conference finalists until the finals. Move either of them up or down by 1 whole spot.
Griffith-Olguin will be the 8-9 at 165. So it's not just Dean, and it's not a B10-ism.
comments on Phillippi - he is certainly 'seasoned'
but I would say RBY has improved since his freshman match more than Phillippi has so I am not as concerned. Will be interesting though - as we know anything can happen.
Remembered Phillippi getting close, but didn't think he ever AA'd ... so I looked him up. Five time qualifier with three R12 finishes in the four championships he's wrestled. Another of those guys that has been consistently close, but never on the podium.
Hoy was the nemesis of my son's teammate Bronson Lingamfelter of Brown University. He knocked Bronson out of Nationals in 2002.
For Hoy to make the finals the next year was impressive. Small world in 2003, Hoy lost to Steve Mocco whose older brother Joe wrestled for Brown and was instrumental in saving the program a few years ago when the Brown admin wanted to cut it.
Growing up one town over, he went to the Luke Pletcher (Freshmen-Junior) school of Boring AF. Still hasn’t graduated.
I believe freshman RBY knocked him out in blood round 2019.
Can't do that imo. Would be like saying move a 4th seed to 3 if conference finalists are 1 & 4, even 2 & 3 just to avoid wrestling before the finals. Unintended consequences. I'm ok with Dean / Allred in round 2, as that's apparently what the math gave us. Dean can win that bout.
Counter-point: Zain should've been the 4 behind Devin Carter (who was undefeated), instead of facing Stieber in the semis.
Hindsight-thought: Had Zain spent his senior year of HS at NLWC, maybe it wouldnt have mattered.
Yeah, I think there are one or two others, too (Glory-Ungar for one). I don't mean to sound like I think it's a conspiracy against the B1G or anything. In fact, it's more likely to happen in other conferences because it's far less likely that the B1G finalists will be seeded in a position where they can meet in the second round. It's just an odd anomaly this year where Dean and Allred are 8 & 9.
By the semis, I think that's OK. I just don't like it in the second round. They could easily just switch Dean with the 10 or Allred with the 7. That's really not unfair (they are explicitly allowed to change the math by 3 places or something, right?). I get that at the very top, if there are guys who are clearly 1-2-3-4, you don't want to mess with that, but what's the difference between a 7 and an 8 or a 9 and a 10 really?
That answer is simple: Pitt.
Not sure I follow. It is ancient history now, but I do remember that. Carter was injured that season & missed a good bit of it. Didn't have an RPI, had fewer QW and fewer bouts (worth something in 2014, which I had to look up). Not sure about CR and they didn't face each other (Retherford vs Carter comparison). Appears possible Retherford won the comparison despite the lower Win %, hence the higher seed. Moving Retherford solely to avoid Stieber in the semis that year doesn't feel right, especially when expanding that thought to every seeding situation where this could happen.
All for tweaking the math as discussed in another thread for Event Finish, etc.
Like Roar, I had to look up Phillippi's history. I didn't realize he was in the same boat as Murin with 3 R12 finishes.
2019
#4 seed - lost to #5 Pletcher in quarters then #10 RBY in R12
2020
#4 seed - lost season
2021
#5 seed - lost to #4 ADS in quarters then #7 Byrd in R12
2022
#12 seed - lost to #5 ADS in 2nd round then won a couple on the backside before losing to #10 Cannon in R12
So all 6 of his losses were to eventual AAs.
Yep, 100% not concerned about RBY facing Phillippi now, or in the past 3 years.comments on Phillippi - he is certainly 'seasoned'
Their freshman year when RBY was still finding himself, still had work to do on bottom, and Phillippi had beaten Fix ... not an ideal opponent. But RBY made it work anyway.
Murin is whimp! He won by running away and stalling all day against SVN!!! He get exactly what he deserves for that cowardly display, Yanni 2nd round and into the consoli's!!!!!!! That is what happens when you don't like tough wrestling!
I only wish we could have a few more Andonian Gomez matches.
I just ran through my initial 197 projection, and it's definitely the most F'd up draw I've ever looked at:
1. (5) Beard
2. (6) Trumble
3. (9) Dean
4. (1) Bonnacorsi
5. (8) Allred
6. (2) Truax
7. (19) Caffey
8. (4) Laird
Warner beats Caffey in round 1, but on the backside, Warner gets Bonnacorsi in the BR (falling down from losing to Dean in the Qs) while Caffey gets the most favorable draw possible on the backside and snakes his way through Davison, Bastida, Braunagel, and Cardenas in the BR to sneak onto the podium. Trumble beats Elam in the Qs then falls down into a brutal match against Allred in the BR.
I wouldn't mind seeing Beard win if Dean doesn't, but man, it's like every match is 50-50.
1. (5) Beard
2. (6) Trumble
3. (9) Dean
4. (1) Bonnacorsi
5. (8) Allred
6. (2) Truax
7. (19) Caffey
8. (4) Laird
Warner beats Caffey in round 1, but on the backside, Warner gets Bonnacorsi in the BR (falling down from losing to Dean in the Qs) while Caffey gets the most favorable draw possible on the backside and snakes his way through Davison, Bastida, Braunagel, and Cardenas in the BR to sneak onto the podium. Trumble beats Elam in the Qs then falls down into a brutal match against Allred in the BR.
I wouldn't mind seeing Beard win if Dean doesn't, but man, it's like every match is 50-50.
Penciling In Dean as a one is somewhat risky. It would seem some in the weight class have figured him out. Let’s also not forget two matches at NCAA had some challenge bricks thrown that did not really have a consensus view of the ruling. He’s a Champion. Will always be a champion, but I would be on the side of at least a little surprised if he can get thru the 197 minefield to the top again.
Re: RBY vs Nagao… I saw their match at Big Tens as RBY saying I’m going to learn about you but give you as little as I can about me. I’ve thought that several times throughout RBY’s career. He opens up when the opponent isn’t a threat, but less so when he is. Somewhat like Dake.
I just realized Marinelli was the 1-seed at NCAAs three times
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