7 on 7

[jack66]

Obviously OSU holds the hammer, but they still need to do it on the mat.

PSU's 7 (4 favorites)
Zain (favorite)
Nolf (favorite)
Joseph (toss up)
Hall (toss up)
Bo (favorite)
Cutch (underdog)
Nick (Favorite)

OSU's 7 (1 favorite)
Tomasello (toss up)
Pletcher (toss up)
Micah (underdog)
BoJo (toss up)
Martin (toss up)
Moore (underdog)
Snyder (favorite)

 

[21Guns]

Obviously OSU holds the hammer, but they still need to do it on the mat.

PSU's 7 (4 favorites)
Zain (favorite)
Nolf (favorite)
Joseph (toss up)
Hall (toss up)
Bo (favorite)
Cutch (underdog)
Nick (Favorite)

OSU's 7 (1 favorite)
Tomasello (toss up)
Pletcher (toss up)
Micah (underdog)
BoJo (toss up)
Martin (toss up)
Moore (underdog)
Snyder (favorite)

They went 15 to 3.5 in the non 7 on 7 weights. The winning margin was 9.5, then won the non 7 by 11.5.

There was your ball game.

No Suriano at Nationals, no title. I think it's that simple

 

[greenmanRD]

No Suriano at Nationals, no title. I think it's that simple

We likely will see, but Ohio State isn't getting that production from those weights again.

 

[jack66]

They went 15 to 3.5 in the non 7 on 7 weights. The winning margin was 9.5, then won the non 7 by 11.5.

There was your ball game.

No Suriano at Nationals, no title. I think it's that simple

Those 15 points from the non-7 will evaporate at nationals. Ryan and Burcher might not qualify and Rodriguez' only wins at Bigs came against NQs. I see maybe 5 points most from those 3.

Our other 3 were Suriano, Law and Gulibon. I'm making no prediction on Gulibon, but if Suriano can then we suddenly have the advantage with the non-7.

Either way, Osu's best 7 will need to beat our best 7 ... that is no easy task.

 

[tomsc]

They went 15 to 3.5 in the non 7 on 7 weights. The winning margin was 9.5, then won the non 7 by 11.5.

There was your ball game.

No Suriano at Nationals, no title. I think it's that simple

It's not that simple to me. If Suriano is healthy or reasonably healthy, we are the clear favorites. Without Suriano it's going to be a 3-team dog fight. PSU could still win without Suriano, but it would be a tough battle.

 

[greenmanRD]

It's not that simple to me. If Suriano is healthy or reasonably healthy, we are the clear favorites. Without Suriano it's going to be a 3-team dog fight. PSU could still win without Suriano, but it would be a tough battle.

PSU can win without Suriano, but I think we all agree that we basically need a bunch of guys to be flawless in that case. We saw a Bo upset and Jimmy perform underseed, that can't happen if Suriano can't provide anything for us.

 

[liex26]

Will we have 6 first round byes?
Doesn't anyone else think that also hurt us?

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Those 15 points from the non-7 will evaporate at nationals. Ryan and Burcher might not qualify and Rodriguez' only wins at Bigs came against NQs. I see maybe 5 points most from those 3.

Our other 3 were Suriano, Law and Gulibon. I'm making no prediction on Gulibon, but if Suriano can then we suddenly have the advantage with the non-7.

Either way, Osu's best 7 will need to beat our best 7 ... that is no easy task.

Exactly re: difference at Nationals for low point scorers. I'm not sure why that's being overlooked.

 

[ZepGraffiti]

They went 15 to 3.5 in the non 7 on 7 weights. The winning margin was 9.5, then won the non 7 by 11.5.

There was your ball game.

No Suriano at Nationals, no title. I think it's that simple

I disagree. NCAA title can be won w/o a healthy Suriano. Obviously it's preferred he be competitive, but it's not a death nail if not.

PSU can win Nats with just 149-285, by nearly matching placements from B1GS:
-ZR 1st @B1G & 1st @Nats
-JN (same as above)
-VJ 3rd @B1GS & top-4 @Nats [if not another step forward to finals]
-MH 2nd B1Gs, believing top-4 @Nats [possible finalist]
-BN 3rd B1GS, still believe Finalist @Nats
-MM 3rd [mid-low AA seems very doable]
-NN 3rd B1GS & top-4 @Nats
-That's like 120-130 pts right there??
-125&141 will score at least some points [confident BOTH will score more than the combined 0.5 they got @B1Gs]. Of course if Suriano is at least 80%, he'll catch the podium somewhere & it's gravy.

History has shown NCAA's can be won a bit easier than B1Gs, with a certain type line-up. And PSU has had & currently does have that kind of line-up. tOSU has the type line-up needed also & could pull it off, but I see a few of their guys dropping a couple more spots @Nats vs the counterparts from PSU.

I still believe it's PSU's to lose.

 

[LemonPie]

We're basically back to before Hall's redshirt was pulled. And everyone was so confident that PSU would win without Hall, correct?

Hall has assumed Suriano's old role, and Suriano has assumed Geno's. Any points from Nick is a bonus, but he still has more upside than Geno ever had. The only differences now are that Mark has tougher weight to compete in, and people are actually giving tOSU's top 6 some respect. No more Martin R of 12 predicitions. LMAO

 

[greenmanRD]

That's like 120-130 pts right there??

Let's just be conservative here with scoring, no bonus, just placement, and we'll place everyone at lowest outcome (so Zain finalist gets scored for 2nd, not 1st) -

Zain, Nolf, Bo - Finalists - 48 (12+4 advancement for each)
Joseph, Hall, Nevills - 4th - 37.5 (3 1/2 advancement [3 + 1/2], 9 for 4th)
McCutcheon - 6th - 8.5 (6 for 6th, 2 1/2 advancement [2 + 1/2])

In the above scenario we're at 94 if we don't win another match and that doesn't include bonus or Gulibon/Suriano performance. Including that we bonus to the point of basically getting another finalist (so +12), Zain and Nolf are favorites to win (so +4 each), Joseph/Hall/Nevills could easily end 3rd (so we'll go +2, assume we go 2-1 in these), we're at 116 without Suriano/Gulibon.

It's very possible we can without Suriano, but we can obviously see how much it will take with only 7 guys going if Gulibon doesn't contribute.

 

[Cowbell Man]

Will we have 6 first round byes?
Doesn't anyone else think that also hurt us?

OSU had 3. We had 6. IF we got pins out of three....we lost 6 points in the deal, but call it 5 just to be fair. It didn't cost us, but it did hurt.

We would have needed 5 more points from somewhere. Nickal winning but not winning the final....just for comparisons sake to Martin's level of success would mean we gained 2 placement points and OSU lost two. A shift of 4 points.

Still down by one. Gulibon wins another, or Suriano wins one. Good.

Nationals though...... I do think we are in better position, but we really need to see those seeds. MH and Cutch face a treacherous path to get back to where they were. Cenzo's win just might have been the win of the day to get him in the opposite side of Imar and is a big deal.

Gotta see the seeds before assessing, because Nationals has a way of crushing hopes in the backside with ugly draws created by the frontside. The backside is ruthless....and rife with real, bonafide desperation.

 

[ZepGraffiti]

We're basically back to before Hall's redshirt was pulled. And everyone was so confident that PSU would win without Hall, correct?

Hall has assumed Suriano's old role, and Suriano has assumed Geno's. Any points from Nick is a bonus, but he still has more upside than Geno ever had. The only differences now are that Mark has tougher weight to compete in, and people are actually giving tOSU's top 6 some respect. No more Martin R of 12 predicitions. LMAO

People should've been giving Martin [and Bo Jordan for that matter] due respect all along. I get that some just hate tOSU & Ryan, but those Wrestlers have earned their way. The best medicine is to just take em out when givin the chance [0-this weekend unfortunately]. High-level rivalries are building. Love it.

 

[HOCKEYGOD11]

They went 15 to 3.5 in the non 7 on 7 weights. The winning margin was 9.5, then won the non 7 by 11.5.

There was your ball game.

No Suriano at Nationals, no title. I think it's that simple

Their non 7 will score zero points at nationals. Our non 7 has potential to score points and the core 7 will out score their core 7. I think we are in good shape against them at nationals.

 

[fortheglory94]

One thing that gives me confidence even if Nick is out is the manner in which victories were recorded this past weekend. OSU seemed to win so many bouts by 1 or 2 points, and we pinned and bonused like crazy throughout. Tomasello won by a combined total of 4 points in three matches! Those 1 point victories team wide could easily turn the other way in St. Louis. OSU was the best team the past two days, but Penn State was the most dominant team. I'll take my chances with the bonus boys any day.

 

[Brian LB-U]

People should've been giving Martin [and Bo Jordan for that matter] due respect all along. I get that some just hate tOSU & Ryan, but those Wrestlers have earned their way. The best medicine is to just take em out when givin the chance [0-this weekend unfortunately]. High-level rivalries are building. Love it.

I'd say the vast majority of posters on this board respect both Bo Jordan and MyMar. There is one (very loud) PSU fan who continues to rail against Martin and his "illegal style", but after this past weekend the argument is even more ridiculous.

 

[21Guns]

Their non 7 will score zero points at nationals. Our non 7 has potential to score points and the core 7 will out score their core 7. I think we are in good shape against them at nationals.

So you are saying you believe Suriano will not only wrestle, but score points?

 

[21Guns]

One thing that gives me confidence even if Nick is out is the manner in which victories were recorded this past weekend. OSU seemed to win so many bouts by 1 or 2 points, and we pinned and bonused like crazy throughout. Tomasello won by a combined total of 4 points in three matches! Those 1 point victories team wide could easily turn the other way in St. Louis. OSU was the best team the past two days, but Penn State was the most dominant team. I'll take my chances with the bonus boys any day.

All tournaments are different and Nats are far different from B1Gs. With that said, again, Ohio St 15 PSU 3.5, from the non 7 side.

It does not get done without points from Suriano.

 

[jack66]

The 2 biggest matches were Tomasello over Clark and BoJo over Hall.

Those two matches go the other way and we're Big Ten Champs.

It is what it is, they came through in clutch and they deserve the Big Ten Championship. But for anyone to say we can't win nationals with the same line-up makes no sense to me.

 

[greenmanRD]

All tournaments are different and Nats are far different from B1Gs. With that said, again, Ohio St 15 PSU 3.5, from the non 7 side.

Right, but they won't replicate that at Nationals, so I'm not sure why you're so concerned with this.

 

[RoarLions1]

Must wrestle the matches, though I personally really, really like our chances at NCAA's.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

One thing that gives me confidence even if Nick is out is the manner in which victories were recorded this past weekend. OSU seemed to win so many bouts by 1 or 2 points, and we pinned and bonused like crazy throughout. Tomasello won by a combined total of 4 points in three matches! Those 1 point victories team wide could easily turn the other way in St. Louis. OSU was the best team the past two days, but Penn State was the most dominant team. I'll take my chances with the bonus boys any day.

Bonus also far more important at Nationals given the larger brackets....

 

[lions#1]

The 2 biggest matches were Tomasello over Clark and BoJo over Hall.

Those two matches go the other way and we're Big Ten Champs.

It is what it is, they came through in clutch and they deserve the Big Ten Championship. But for anyone to say we can't win nationals with the same line-up makes no sense to me.

Moore's victory at 197 surprised and impressed me the way he handle his business in the final. Tomasello and BoJo were favored or toss ups at best

 

[Cali_Nittany]

We need a 7 on 10 comparison with the other OSU.

 

[tomsc]

We need a 7 on 10 comparison with the other OSU.

Just what I was thinking. tOSU is obviously a big challenge, but so is OSU. They may not have as many in the finals (3 legitimate shots--133, 141, 149), but they could AA at every weight except 125. Not saying they will (165 will be tough), but they're certainly in the mix.

 

[ZepGraffiti]

All tournaments are different and Nats are far different from B1Gs. With that said, again, Ohio St 15 PSU 3.5, from the non 7 side.

It does not get done without points from Suriano.

Doesn't matter.

Gulibon & Suriano are in [Law is out]. Only Rodriguez is a certainty of the tOSU 3 [Burcher & Ryan are "maybes" at best].
But apparently you're worried those "non-7" from tOSU crush PSU's "non-7" at NCAA's?? I believe you've called out other posters as "Haters" for that line of thinking?

 

[21Guns]

Doesn't matter.

Gulibon & Suriano are in [Law is out]. Only Rodriguez is a certainty of the tOSU 3 [Burcher & Ryan are "maybes" at best].
But apparently you're worried those "non-7" from tOSU crush PSU's "non-7" at NCAA's?? I believe you've called out other posters as "Haters" for that line of thinking?

Keep your hate and your pile on act out of the posts. Stick to your argument.

 

[21Guns]

Right, but they won't replicate that at Nationals, so I'm not sure why you're so concerned with this.

the concern is Suriano. Did he look to you like he'll be able to wrestle next Thursday?

Not concerned about Jimmy: He'll have a tough draw and have to get lucky in first and second round wrestlebacks to score any points for us. I'm going into this, hoping for 8 scoring wrestlers. We'll need EIGHT scoring wrestlers to win, which is what I said about B1G's also. Was it a perfect storm? Sure, but that happens all the time.

You win championships by overcoming perfect storms. In this case, with EIGHT scoring wrestlers.

 

[greenmanRD]

the concern is Suriano. Did he look to you like he'll be able to wrestle next Thursday?

No, but he didn't look like he was going to wrestle again to me after the Oklahoma State meet.

Not concerned about Jimmy: He'll have a tough draw and have to get lucky in first and second round wrestlebacks to score any points for us. I'm going into this, hoping for 8 scoring wrestlers. We'll need EIGHT scoring wrestlers to win, which is what I said about B1G's also. Was it a perfect storm? Sure, but that happens all the time.

This is true, I can't really disagree with your premise that we'll need 8 scorers. I've done the math above, but our path to victory narrows significantly if we lose someone earlier than their seed predicts. Right now, I see us in a best case world getting around 120 points. That would be enough to win.

 

[21Guns]

No, but he didn't look like he was going to wrestle again to me after the Oklahoma State meet.



This is true, I can't really disagree with your premise that we'll need 8 scorers. I've done the math above, but our path to victory narrows significantly if we lose someone earlier than their seed predicts. Right now, I see us in a best case world getting around 120 points. That would be enough to win.

So, you don't think Nick will be able to go? I'm leaning toward, no. Just hard to imagine after that limp. Hope a miracle happens.

 

[ZepGraffiti]

Keep your hate and your pile on act out of the posts. Stick to your argument.

My argument was vs your ridiculous assertion [the 1 in this thread, just to narrow it down]. Only 'sticking' I did was back through your larynx. Point remains, I like PSU's chances, despite all your attention seeking drama.....

 

[greenmanRD]

So, you don't think Nick will be able to go? I'm leaning toward, no. Just hard to imagine after that limp. Hope a miracle happens.

Obviously, I'm rooting for the kid, but I'm pessimistic given the limp we saw Saturday. He's wrestled hard and gotten better as the year went along, it'll be a shame if he loses out on being a 4x AA because of a random incidental injury. Injuries happen in the sport, but it's a real bummer if this costs Suriano a chance at being regarded in the elite class of college wrestling.

If he can help out at all, I think our chances go up significantly (and my 120 point calculation doesn't include him).

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Obviously, I'm rooting for the kid, but I'm pessimistic given the limp we saw Saturday. He's wrestled hard and gotten better as the year went along, it'll be a shame if he loses out on being a 4x AA because of a random incidental injury. Injuries happen in the sport, but it's a real bummer if this costs Suriano a chance at being regarded in the elite class of college wrestling.

If he can help out at all, I think our chances go up significantly (and my 120 point calculation doesn't include him).

I think 130 is possible without NIck - we could get decent bonus contribution from every weight except 97. We scored 123 last year with only 6 weights really contributing.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

You can't do this without looking at the brackets. Here's one instance...

Micah Jordan scored 16 points this weekend. If he stays in the 5-hole, he has a date with #4 in the quarters and Zain in the semis. That's worst case for him. Is best case the 4-seed? Okay, so he gets Zain in the semis, dropping him from 12 placement

I think 130 is possible without NIck - we could get decent bonus contribution from every weight except 97. We scored 123 last year with only 6 weights really contributing.

But, we would have won last year with only our first five scorers.

I just don't understand this need for 8 scorers.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

You can't do this without looking at the brackets. Here's one instance...

Micah Jordan scored 16 points this weekend. If he stays in the 5-hole, he has a date with #4 in the quarters and Zain in the semis. That's worst case for him. Is best case the 4-seed? Okay, so he gets Zain in the semis, dropping him from 12 placement

But, we would have won last year with only our first five scorers.

I just don't understand this need for 8 scorers.

Really depends how things shake out -- if daO$U and the Pokes (and Iowa to a lesser extent) end up sawing each other off, PSU can win with 7 scorers that wrestle at or above seed (especially with PSU's "bonus profile" which is far greater than anyone elses which was again demonstrated at B1Gs).

 

[21Guns]

My argument was vs your ridiculous assertion [the 1 in this thread, just to narrow it down]. Only 'sticking' I did was back through your larynx. Point remains, I like PSU's chances, despite all your attention seeking drama.....

Take your attacks and stick them up your a$$. Stay on topic, NOBODY on any board cares about your attacks and your attempts to fit in with a little clique of freaks who attack.

 

[21Guns]

Obviously, I'm rooting for the kid, but I'm pessimistic given the limp we saw Saturday. He's wrestled hard and gotten better as the year went along, it'll be a shame if he loses out on being a 4x AA because of a random incidental injury. Injuries happen in the sport, but it's a real bummer if this costs Suriano a chance at being regarded in the elite class of college wrestling.

If he can help out at all, I think our chances go up significantly (and my 120 point calculation doesn't include him).

I agree. I don't see it happening. Unfortunately, we'll need to do this with 7 and I don't see that happening. Most likely a close third, or second, to Ohio State and Oklahoma State. They will have 8 or 9 scorers to our 7, and they'll bonus too.

 

[21Guns]

We likely will see, but Ohio State isn't getting that production from those weights again.

Sure they are. Those last four are muscle bound hammers, and two of them are locks for the finals at 197 and Hwy. The other two are locks for the semi's.

 

[tuggerjug]

Nolf = Snyder
Retherford = Tomasello
Nickal = Moore
Hall = BoJo
Cenzo = Martin
Nevills = Micah
McCutch = Pletcher
Jimmy = Jose
Suriano = Burcher (assuming he gets in)

Nolf and Snyder are a push

Retherford will out point Tomasello even if Nato wins and I think he's got ALOT of quality competition at 133

Nickal will outpoint Moore by way of bonus - I'm assuming both make it to finals and lose - but think Nickal is better odds of finals than Moore

Hall and BoJo - assume BoJo gets the edge by getting to finals but Hall's bonus should help keep gap close. Also, assuming BoJo can get past Realbuto (who beat him a couple weeks ago) to get to finals

Cenzo - toss up - I personally think Cenzo is better bet to be wrestling for 3/4 than Martin is but Martin probably has more upside to make finals than Cenzo (depending on seeds) - call this a dead heat

Nevills will get the 4 seed and should be wrestling for 3/4 - much more confidence in him placing 3/4 than Micah

Cutch vs Pletch - both have low AA potential - I just think Cutch is higher and has easier weight class

jimmy has more potential than Jose

Assuming nothing out of Suriano and Burcher

Seems to me PSU has advantage on head to head vs tOSU at Nationals

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Nolf = Snyder
Retherford = Tomasello
Nickal = Moore
Hall = BoJo
Cenzo = Martin
Nevills = Micah
McCutch = Pletcher
Jimmy = Jose
Suriano = Burcher (assuming he gets in)

Nolf and Snyder are a push

Retherford will out point Tomasello even if Nato wins and I think he's got ALOT of quality competition at 133

Nickal will outpoint Moore by way of bonus - I'm assuming both make it to finals and lose - but think Nickal is better odds of finals than Moore

Hall and BoJo - assume BoJo gets the edge by getting to finals but Hall's bonus should help keep gap close. Also, assuming BoJo can get past Realbuto (who beat him a couple weeks ago) to get to finals

Cenzo - toss up - I personally think Cenzo is better bet to be wrestling for 3/4 than Martin is but Martin probably has more upside to make finals than Cenzo (depending on seeds) - call this a dead heat

Nevills will get the 4 seed and should be wrestling for 3/4 - much more confidence in him placing 3/4 than Micah

Cutch vs Pletch - both have low AA potential - I just think Cutch is higher and has easier weight class

jimmy has more potential than Jose

Assuming nothing out of Suriano and Burcher

Seems to me PSU has advantage on head to head vs tOSU at Nationals

Snyder does not equal Nolf in terms of bonus points - simply not the case.