A loss to Michigan is not a final blow

heckmans

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Why do you think PSU doesn't match up well with Michigan?

Michigan's defense is not nearly as good as last year. Offense is similar (maybe slightly better).

PSU's offense is much better this year. Defense is just as good if not better.

And PSU had them beat last year (one fluke play away). So barring home field advantage being a HUGE boost for Michigan, I see this game as a toss up with maybe a slight edge to PSU.
But imagine if they still had that Don Brown defense!!
 
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PSU2UNC

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I dont think we match up well vs Michigan D. They are going to play Cover 0, and bring a lot of pressure. Clifford struggles vs the blitz and he cant throw deep. Gonna need a big day from the rbs.
"he cant throw deep. "
PSU has not completed a lot of deep passes this season, but to say Clifford can't throw deep is completely incorrect.



 
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PSU2UNC

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Our offense might be better than last yr, but until they make major strides in 3rd down offense (currently 12th in B1G), they will struggle to win big games. Without a deep passing game and poor on 3rd downs, that's a tough formula.
Just run the ball for 6+ yards on first and second down. That makes third downs less of a problem ;-)
 

lazydave841

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It's also why losing Cain, Holmes and Lee, all of whom are more of the heavy-legged straight line runners, is damaging to the short yardage offense....they clearly weren't fast or agile enough to be starting in this system, but as guys to do the dirty work, now we apparently are lacking that in the RB room as well.

Cain hasn't been a good RB since his injury against Indiana to start '20. They give him every chance in the world last year and he just doesn't have it after multiple injuries.

Holmes is a terrible depth loss, but you don't play him over the backs we have now. For every Alvin Kamara, there are 100 guys who transfer and never produce.

Lee is still here. Did you mean Ford?

Allen should be the go-to short yardage RB in critical times. I think the staff understands that. Who did they give the ball to late vs NW on 3rd and 1? How about the subsequent 4th and 1? Allen.
 

marshall23

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For three or four years this board has been littered with crybaby fanboys insisting that no one "can get a rhythm" or be successful using 3 or 4 running backs. Ford leaves and now we're concerned about the 4th string back. LOL LOL LOL ......here's a tip.....if PSU is down to #4 the season is over.
 

marshall23

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Here's a real issue....If Clifford, Allar, and Veilleux go down, it's "on" CJF for not playing Pribula enough and we may not make the playoffs.
 

PSUWrestlingFanSince2011

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Cain hasn't been a good RB since his injury against Indiana to start '20. They give him every chance in the world last year and he just doesn't have it after multiple injuries.

Holmes is a terrible depth loss, but you don't play him over the backs we have now. For every Alvin Kamara, there are 100 guys who transfer and never produce.

Lee is still here. Did you mean Ford?

Allen should be the go-to short yardage RB in critical times. I think the staff understands that. Who did they give the ball to late vs NW on 3rd and 1? How about the subsequent 4th and 1? Allen.
I really like Allen on 3rd downs. Even vs Mich and OSU I like his chances on 3rd and 1.
 

scrivener

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Cain hasn't been a good RB since his injury against Indiana to start '20. They give him every chance in the world last year and he just doesn't have it after multiple injuries.

Holmes is a terrible depth loss, but you don't play him over the backs we have now. For every Alvin Kamara, there are 100 guys who transfer and never produce.

Lee is still here. Did you mean Ford?

Allen should be the go-to short yardage RB in critical times. I think the staff understands that. Who did they give the ball to late vs NW on 3rd and 1? How about the subsequent 4th and 1? Allen.
Right, yep sorry...I meant Ford. Agreed...Kaytron seems to be the better short yardage back and hopefully he continues to make progress.
 

PSU2UNC

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Here's a real issue....If Clifford, Allar, and Veilleux go down, it's "on" CJF for not playing Pribula enough and we may not make the playoffs.
LOL. Well played. As everyone knows, lots of 4th string QBs guide their teams to the title game.
 
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marshall23

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LOL. Well played. As everyone knows, lots of 4th string QBs guide their teams to the title game.
Prediction #2 What ever QB portals we will hear:
1. CJF never gave him a chance
2. Even if they competed our coaches favored the wrong QB.
Next on the NNNNNCAC agenda: seating chart on the plane to Michigan
 

PSUWrestlingFanSince2011

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Prediction #2 What ever QB portals we will hear:
1. CJF never gave him a chance
2. Even if they competed our coaches favored the wrong QB.
Next on the NNNNNCAC agenda: seating chart on the plane to Michigan
Are you Franklins cousin or something? You must have been real quiet the last 2 seasons.
 

lazydave841

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Are you Franklins cousin or something? You must have been real quiet the last 2 seasons.

Quiet? Wally is quiet. Spent all last season with the peg analysis. Big put downs through the off season. Disappears after every win. Shows back up when we have a tough game (ironically, he's back today and somehow he has Michigan as the best team in the conference - surprise surprise).
 

PSUWrestlingFanSince2011

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Quiet? Wally is quiet. Spent all last season with the peg analysis. Big put downs through the off season. Disappears after every win. Shows back up when we have a tough game (ironically, he's back today and somehow he has Michigan as the best team in the conference - surprise surprise).
I mean acting like Franklin is God is a little too much for me. We have been terrible the last 2 seasons. So no I do not trust his every decision.
 

marshall23

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Are you Franklins cousin or something? You must have been real quiet the last 2 seasons.
Actually, I attended my first PSU game on 11/5/66. Floyd Little won the game for Syracuse on a punt return.
I grew to admire and respect Joe, tried to emulate him as much as possible when I coached. Because my high school coach went on to be on Joe's staff, I was fortunate to meet him several times and take my sons often to spring practice etc.
You see, Joe was an educator first. He understood that winning was the currency you spent to help boys become responsible young men. He wanted to win, but not at the expense of his principles.
I've been a fan......win or lose.....and will be a fan till the end.
I see many of the same admirable qualities in James Franklin. He doesn't need me or you to tell him who to put in the game or what play to call......anyone who thinks that is just a stupid ass wipe.
So no, we're not related....I spent 23 years playing and coaching football and I have an abiding respect for how complex the job is at the D1 level.
So if you think PSU football is about making the playoffs...well, you have my sympathy.
 

PSUWrestlingFanSince2011

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Actually, I attended my first PSU game on 11/5/66. Floyd Little won the game for Syracuse on a punt return.
I grew to admire and respect Joe, tried to emulate him as much as possible when I coached. Because my high school coach went on to be on Joe's staff, I was fortunate to meet him several times and take my sons often to spring practice etc.
You see, Joe was an educator first. He understood that winning was the currency you spent to help boys become responsible young men. He wanted to win, but not at the expense of his principles.
I've been a fan......win or lose.....and will be a fan till the end.
I see many of the same admirable qualities in James Franklin. He doesn't need me or you to tell him who to put in the game or what play to call......anyone who thinks that is just a stupid ass wipe.
So no, we're not related....I spent 23 years playing and coaching football and I have an abiding respect for how complex the job is at the D1 level.
So if you think PSU football is about making the playoffs...well, you have my sympathy.
I think many of the older fanbase who have already seen 2 National Championships are content with going to the Outback bowl every year, but us fans who have never been alive for a National Championship, its playoff or bust, until we atleast make the playoff at least 1 time. I really could care less at this point about going to another Outback Bowl tbh.
 

PSU2UNC

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I think many of the older fanbase who have already seen 2 National Championships are content with going to the Outback bowl every year, but us fans who have never been alive for a National Championship, its playoff or bust, until we atleast make the playoff 1 time. I really could care less at this point about going to another Outback Bowl tbh.
I think everyone should WANT to go to the playoff. I think EXPECTING to go to playoff (for any team not named Alabama or OSU) suggests you do not have a handle on how difficult it is to go to the playoff.

And to add another dimension: if you "sell out" to try to get to the playoff, you could also end up not going to any bowl (hello: Scott Frost) which while you may not "care" about the Outback Bowl, I'm assuming you would be less than pleased if PSU went 4-8.
 
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PSUWrestlingFanSince2011

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I think everyone should WANT to go to the playoff. I think EXPECTING to go to playoff (for any team not named Alabama or OSU) suggests you do not have a handle on how difficult it is to go to the playoff.
Clifford aint getting us to the Playoff, will Allar? Probably not, but at least we'd have a chance in hell. The fact that fans on here mostly want Clifford shows how many on here are just happy on here with a decent bowl bc they've already witnessed 2 nattys. I'm sure its an older crowd here.
 

marshall23

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I think many of the older fanbase who have already seen 2 National Championships are content with going to the Outback bowl every year, but us fans who have never been alive for a National Championship, its playoff or bust, until we atleast make the playoff at least 1 time. I really could care less at this point about going to another Outback Bowl tbh.
If that's your goal, you will never be happy...
 

PSU2UNC

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Clifford aint getting us to the Playoff, will Allar? Probably not, but at least we'd have a chance in hell. The fact that fans on here mostly want Clifford shows how many on here are just happy on here with a decent bowl bc they've already witnessed 2 nattys. I'm sure its an older crowd here.
Or the people who want Clifford are old enough to realize that a sixth year QB is almost always going to be better than a true freshman QB.
 

marshall23

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Clifford aint getting us to the Playoff, will Allar? Probably not, but at least we'd have a chance in hell. The fact that fans on here mostly want Clifford shows how many on here are just happy on here with a decent bowl bc they've already witnessed 2 nattys. I'm sure its an older crowd here.
The fact that some fans here support Clifford is likely because they are realistic enough to know that if the coaching staff thought Allar was better suited to lead the team at this point, he would be in there.
Your premise for preferring Allar assumes that you know better than a division one football staff that evaluates at practice.....in person every day.....
The fact that you can't seem to understand how utterly stupid that is .....or if you were smart enough you'd be embarrassed.
 
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marshall23

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Clifford aint getting us to the Playoff, will Allar? Probably not, but at least we'd have a chance in hell. The fact that fans on here mostly want Clifford shows how many on here are just happy on here with a decent bowl bc they've already witnessed 2 nattys. I'm sure its an older crowd here.
This sounds like sound logic? LOL
Coach to team..."guys we're making a change at QB because we've decided that while we don't have much of a chance for the playoffs with Cliff and we don't with Drew either....but we decided what the hell, let's see what happens."
 
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PSU2UNC

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Thats not even close to true. Why is Clifford still here in his 6th year if he's so good?
Perhaps this is your youth, but surely you appreciate that the skill set to be a good/great CFB QB are not the same as being an NFL QB.

For example, Charlie Ward (FSU QB) won the Heisman Trophy, and led FSU to the National Championship and was not drafted by the NFL (he did play in the NBA).

Eric Crouch (Nebraska QB) also won the Heisman Trophy and never played a down of QB in the NFL.
 
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PSUWrestlingFanSince2011

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This sounds like sound logic? LOL
Coach to team..."guys we're making a change at QB because we've decided that while we don't have much of a chance for the playoffs with Cliff and we don't with Drew either....but we decided what the hell, let's see what happens."
You serioysly think Clifford could get us into the playoff?
 

lowhandicapper

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The University of Southern California is the only team in the entire history of college football to have a winning record in games against top 10 teams. The only one. I'm sure they don't have a winning record on the road against such teams, of which stats I could not find.
I think Penn State has a better team than Michigan but winning on the road against a blue blood school in the biggest stadium in the world doesn't mean the better team will win.
That said, I'm sure someone will say Franklin should be fired if Penn State doesn't win....Because people are invariably dumb and don't understand sports, no matter how much they like them or watch them.

Record vs Top 10 Teams
 

PSU2UNC

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The University of Southern California is the only team in the entire history of college football to have a winning record in games against top 10 teams. The only one. I'm sure they don't have a winning record on the road against such teams, of which stats I could not find.
I think Penn State has a better team than Michigan but winning on the road against a blue blood school in the biggest stadium in the world doesn't mean the better team will win.
That said, I'm sure someone will say Franklin should be fired if Penn State doesn't win....Because people are invariably dumb and don't understand sports, no matter how much they like them or watch them.

Record vs Top 10 Teams
This is an interesting stat but it ignores the quality of the team being examined. In other words, a team ranked 50th losing to a top 10 team is expected. A #1 rated team losing to a #10 team is not unheard of, but probably not "OK" especially at home.

Your point about home field is a good one, but Michigan is not nearly as hostile an environment as Auburn and many of these players have played at Michigan before (even it was without fans).
 

lowhandicapper

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Playoff or bust for us fans who have never seen 2 Nattys. Not happy with 8-4 like you guys. Why would I stop about the playoff. Its all that matters.
I agree with this but it lacks accounting for realistic expectations based on talent and previous performance. Sometimes "A" season is about laying the groundwork for "THE" season. Coach Paterno was all about the build for 3 years then the championship for 2 years in the old world of 5th year seniors.
There is only one Alabama.
 
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lowhandicapper

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This is an interesting stat but it ignores the quality of the team being examined. In other words, a team ranked 50th losing to a top 10 team is expected. A #1 rated team losing to a #10 team is not unheard of, but probably not "OK" especially at home.

Your point about home field is a good one, but Michigan is not nearly as hostile an environment as Auburn and many of these players have played at Michigan before (even it was without fans).
You could say that every team in the top 17 are blue bloods which by in large part means they weren't ranked 50 when they played a top 10 team. Maybe a year or two they had a down year were a fringe top 35 team but for the most part that wouldn't line up with those names on a regular basis. So I think the stats are fairly accurate regardless of irregularities in team performance.
 

LandoComando

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I went on the record prediction of 8-4 and I thought if we win the bowl game and come in 9-4 thats an acceptable season. My requirements for a "good" season were 9-3 regular season and I still hold to that. We have had some pleasant surprises with some of the young guys and a few other areas so far, but overall we don't have the combination of depth and experience that the top 6 or 7 teams in the nation have....but...we're getting close man.
Patience.
Not sure why you care if we win or lose a bowl game but with this schedule less than 10-2 is setting expectations too low IMO
 

PSUWrestlingFanSince2011

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I agree with this but it lacks accounting for realistic expectations based on talent and previous performance. Sometimes "A" season is about laying the groundwork for "THE" season. Coach Paterno was all about the build for 3 years then the championship for 2 years in the old world of 5th year seniors.
There is only one Alabama.
Ohio State can be good every year but not us. Why do people have this mentality?
 
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