Aaron Fisher Offers to Meet Ziegler in Sunday Inky, But Backs Out In Epic Facebook Conversation
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Did it ever occur to you that we may have the truth with 95% of what Jerry did? We need to hear more details on events surrounding Mike McQueary incident, that's it. And really, we know much of what happened there as well. It's more of the back-end story (as in what happened with the administrators) that there are still some questions about.
Why wouldn't Tom McAndrew allow this? As seen above with your stated "sick bastards" and "loons", he allows you to violate clearly stated rules for posting here and you very frequently violate those rules with no repercussions.
Sorry I swore, dad. I guess swearing/name calling is worse than victim blaming, discussing the merits of naked bear hugs, showering with children, and sodomy.
JZ's post wasn't about questioning the judicial process. It was about attacking a victim. And it's not the first time he's done it. You can (and should) question the judicial process without attacking victims. What JZ is doing is wrong and no decent human being should support him. Let's not forget how he turned on the Paterno family when they wouldn't jump into bed with him. You are supporting a guy who continually attacks the lead plaintiff in Paterno et al v NCAA. What is WRONG with you?
When this all started, I presumed Jerry's guilt just like everyone else did. I also presumed Spanier's guilt in a cover up. I am now convinced I was completely off base regarding Spanier. What if, starting with AF and largely because of him, they got it all wrong regarding Sandusky?
I've believed since the release of the Freeh and Clemente reports that JS was this super duper serial pedophile who was too smart to do anything at PSU that he couldn't talk his way out of. I didn't pay too much attention to the accusations that did not involve PSU officials. Having looked a little more closely, I'm not sure any of the charges against JS would have stuck had he been tried on them individually.
I'm not saying he's innocent, just that it's demonstrable that serious breaches in the legal process occurred that leave me uncertain of Jerry's guilt. Maybe I'm wrong, but calling me names and impugning my character is not the way to convince me. If anything, it makes me even more suspicious.
You're right. You shouldn't attack the victims as a general rule. However, money makes people do strange and unconscionable things, thus warranting an exception to the rule.
JZ didn't turn on the Paterno family. He got into it with Scott, who might have his own agenda.
that about sums it up for me. it is a shame that the OAG/Governor/PSU BOT has proven to be so corrupt that they left so much room to doubt the narrative they carefully constructed.
I spoke yesterday with a friend who works as an ADA in a major American city. I asked him if he has ever witnessed or heard of a judge prodding a defense attorney to object to a prosecutor leading a witness. he said that is too bizarre to even imagine. he also said trying a case with no witness and no identified victim was news to him as well.
I'm not going to defend JZ, except to say it WAS AF and the news organization calling him out by name. which to me is extremely bizarre. I think JZ has a right to defend himself, even if I cringe at the way he does it.
You are someone who thinks naked bear hugs aren't inherently sexual and thus not necessarily criminal. If you truly believe this........you have no character, and it makes me even more suspicious of your tendencies.
No, but it is clearly against the rules and you do it frequently, being the fine gentleman you are.
Man, you have sex on the brain. Not everything is about sex. The internet and cable have corrupted you. Because of attitudes like yours, anyone would be a fool to get involved with Big Brothers, become an adult scout leader, foster children, etc...
And for the record, back in '98 it was DA Gricar who stated that without sexual intent there was no crime. It happens to be the law.
Okay chief. If someone does that to your children, it must be okay with you......as long as the perp says there was no sexual intent.
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You are looking at this at only one victim. I am talking about the whole group of victims.
It's because JZ is running around telling everyone that AF is a liar. Not hard to understand how someone who has been abused would lash out against that even if they don't want to deal with the jerk who is besmirching him.
"So don't be sympathetic to a pedophile and you won't have these problems."
First, I'm not "sympathetic to a pedophile" and I am sympathetic to those who did not get a fair trial.
Second, there is no excuse for violating the forum rules, however, the arrogant do such regularly. Judging from your post, you approve of the procedure.
First, I'm not "sympathetic to a pedophile" and I am sympathetic to those who did not get a fair trial.
Second, there is no excuse for violating the forum rules, however, the arrogant do such regularly. Judging from your post, you approve of the procedure.
I said it was inappropriate, not that it was okay.Okay chief. If someone does that to your children, it must be okay with you......as long as the perp says there was no sexual intent.
Are you suggesting that every person you've ever hugged was with sexual intent? Have you never hugged someone to comfort that person? To congratulate him/her? To make him/her feel safe or loved? Whether or not there was sexual intent is a huge part of the equation.
You are nuts. There's a huge difference in what you just posted, and my point. You are either not intelligent enough to see the difference, or have the same "boundary issues" that Jerry did.
Just noiticed the unwatch thread link. Good stuff, but I'll leave the nutbags to this crap.
There was more than bear hugs with other victims.
There was more than bear hugs with other victims.
well it isn't just JZ, it is friends of AF and people in that community. to be honest, reading some of the exchanges between JZ and Dawn/AF, it really makes you wonder what the hell is going on. and that pic of AF's girlfriend covered in PSU cash is what some might call a "tell"
He did get a fair trial. He hired an incompetent attorney and turned down his opportunity to go on the stand and defend himself. Sorry, but that's all on him. If this trial was delayed a year, we would have the same result.
Just tell me this. What would possess a naked man to "bear-hug" one child after another, year after year, unless he found it gratifying? When man and child are naked, the child picked up and hugged from behind, there is genital contact. By definition, that makes it sexual. The act becomes sexually gratifying. What the man is doing is abusing the child with his naked sexual organs. He is gratifying the living hell out of himself. How can you possibly maintain this is somehow being done without "intent?"
But more to the point, this is also grooming...prepping the kid...familiarizing the kid with the feel of what lies ahead.
"Boundary issues?"
Dear god. How long have you been without the gift of sight? How can a grown man talk himself into your kind of darkness?
Perhaps so. I'm just not convinced, largely because of the manner in which the case was prosecuted.
He was victim #1. Meaning, he was the one who blew this whole thing up. Do you think that he schemed this all on his own? "Hey, let me accuse ol' Jerry of something and then I can sue Penn State!" Ummm... PSU had nothing to do with him and he had no way of knowing about the MM incident at the time. So where was he going to get his "PSU cash"?
This is infuriating. Can some of these people just take a step back and look at this logically??
What about the other vict
He raped other victims and they testified to this. He was convicted on those counts too. These people ignore those other victims or call them all liars.
Tell that to the McMartins. Sometimes victims lie and so do witnesses. I believe this is one of those times.
That's what I don't understand. They pretend that these other victims don't even exist. It's amazing really.
So maybe a few kids got money when they shouldn't have. Get over it already. Boundary issues? Only a bear hug? No witnesses for a child who gets molested? Of course there aren't. Some of you are scary. If he didn't molest this kid, he was most likely setting him up for molestation. That JZ video was awesome.
"Incompetent attorney" equates to a fair trial?????????????? Now I realize who I'm communicating with.
I believe it was Amendola himself who said under oath on the record that even after he looked through all the evidence after the trial, he didn't find a single thing that would have changed what he did at trial. The result would have been identical. For the record, I don't think Amendola's strategy was all that bad; the evidence was just overwhelming and the combination of character witnesses favorable to the accused and attacking the victims' character and credibility is really the only thing you can do to try and get reasonable doubt if you're in Amendola's shoes. The worst of the two was by far Rominger - and it was Jerry who made the decision to bring Rominger on board. That decision is on Jerry.
1) To your first question, I only know of one kid who was bear hugged in the shower...V6. Hypothetically a kid could have been horsing around, slipped in the shower, hurt himself and was being comforted.
2) Genital contact, even if inadvertent, would be a crime as I understand it. Still, without the attempt to gratify oneself sexually, I believe it would fall into the category of lewd behavior, rather than sexual abuse. However, there's no evidence that genital contact ever occurred with either V2 or V6.
3) Where's evidence that Jerry was sexually aroused in any way?
4) Without sexual intent, how can you say with certainty that what Jerry did was grooming? Neither V2 or V6 ever accused Jerry of sexual abuse and both remained close to him until he was arrested.
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I don't believe he ever blamed PSU. He got his PSU cash anyway. That's a big part of the problem here.
You need help. I'm done with this thread. People like you are an embarrassment to our university, this website and mankind.
Okay chief. If someone does that to your children, it must be okay with you......as long as the perp says there was no sexual intent.
seemed like it was OK with the victim's mother in 1998
None of them deserved a dime from PSU. I won't get over it.
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