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Aaron Fisher Offers to Meet Ziegler in Sunday Inky, But Backs Out In Epic Facebook Conversation

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When does a victim get their justice?

Mr. Fisher faced his abuser in a court of law. He told his story to the jury. He faced cross-examination. I witnessed every painful moment. And he was found credible. By a jury. He then faced Penn State's appointed mediators regarding settlement and, again, was found credible. (not all were - I believe 6(?) were found not credible and did not receive a settlement).

Mr. Sandusky was found guilty on 45 of 48 counts related to child sexual abuse. Mr. Sandusky has the right to appeal the decision - and has an appeal currently in the courts.

Mr. Fisher had his day in court and was found credible. In the legal system that our country was founded on. But that's not good enough for some of you. Still you want to call him a liar. Why? Because his story changed as he began revealing what happened to him as a child?

I know when I told, I only told about the abuse up until the point that an adult (my parents) reacted. And then I shut down. Telling is one of the hardest things and one of the reasons most vicitms never do. Attend a training course on how to respond when a victim begins telling their story and you will find experts are trained to not react, to remain calm, to show compassion. My mother's first words were "Oh my God, this is all my fault!" and she collapsed to the floor on her knees crying - my father's face turned red and he screamed "I'm going to kill the son of a bitch." I hadn't even scratched the surface of what he had done but at that moment, I stopped talking. It was only later that I was able to say more fully what had occurred, but it took several years for the full truth to come out.

We feel complicit in our abuse. Sex is pleasurable. Even to a child. We begin to question our own role in the abuse - well I liked it - so therefore I.......wanted it? A child's body will react to stimulation just as an adult's would. But the child's mind cannot fully comprehend what is happening to them.

And our abuser make us feel shame/blame/guilt. If you tell anyone you will get into trouble. No one will believe you. Who do you think they will believe? You or me?

I work closely with one of the families from the trial (not Mr. Fisher) and they have been repeatedly harrassed by John Ziegler (and his "followers"); attacked on social media, stalked on their FB and Twitter feeds in much the same fashion as Mr. Fisher has been in this exchange.

These young men had their day in court. They had their childhoods taken from them. They deserve the right to control the narrative of the rest of their lives. Mr. Ziegler, I implore you again - leave these young men and their families alone.

Thank you,
Roxine Behrens
President, Tree-Climbers.org
 
Lol.... sorry, 45! You got me there.

Of course I can name the 3, just like I am sure that you know that He wasn't found completely innocent with that victim either. it's highly doubtful that he exerted his pedo tendencies with other victims but not that one.
Hence the suspicion that Jerry might be innocent!
 
Oh wait a minute. I didn't mean that message for you. I know that you are a arrogant, shoot from the hip, who will never have an open mind. I meant it for open minded rational folks.

I apologize if you thought I believed you would be open minded about anything.

I sure hope you're not lumping yourself in with the rational folks. By the way--you should work on your insults a bit to make them better.
 
In the search for the truth, where in that facebook exchange was any information of value obtained? Was that really full of facts worthy of starting a thread with some real new credible important information? I saw two people going at it with no real information gathered. How is that hunting for the truth? It doesn't discredit some of his past information, but it certainly will lead many more to question him when he offers no information and just basically catfights with AF.

What has that to do with the passage you quoted from my post? Answer: nothing!
 
I sure hope you're not lumping yourself in with the rational folks. By the way--you should work on your insults a bit to make them better.

Yeah, I could learn from you. When it comes to Insults/name calling, nobody on this board does it better.
 
Fisher and the other accusers certainly are not above criticism for changing stories, testimony, etc. However, Ziegler's approach is just bad. While I think he raises some fair questions and has dug up some good info, no one will take him seriously based on how he does it. He seems to easily flip into 'attacking' the other party, which causes immediate dismissal. He may present compelling, accurate information but no one will ever consider it based on how he responds to people.

^This. There are some reasons to question AFs account of things, but JZ is a complete dbag. He's trying to genuinely set up a meeting with AF, so he delves into numerous attacks on AF out of the gate? That's nonsense. Nobody would address AF the way JZ did if they were truly trying to get a sit-down. Unless you're a bit unhinged:

I also want to point out the absurdity of JZ's claim that AF's mother attacking him is proof of AF lying. He thinks the mother should be thrilled to discover that her kid maybe wasn't abused! So if your kid claimed he was sexually abused, and a jury found the offender guilty against your son and many others, then some guy comes along calling your kid a liar, you think the only rational response is to be happy that maybe it's untrue? Some stranger is calling your sexually abused child a liar. I'd do a lot more than attack you on Facebook if that were my kid. The ONLY rational response to some stranger saying your sexually-abused victim child is a money-grubbing liar is pure rage. So question whatever you want about AF, but to pretend his mother's reaction proves AF is lying is the height of absurdity.
 
When does a victim get their justice?

Mr. Fisher faced his abuser in a court of law. He told his story to the jury. He faced cross-examination. I witnessed every painful moment. And he was found credible. By a jury. He then faced Penn State's appointed mediators regarding settlement and, again, was found credible. (not all were - I believe 6(?) were found not credible and did not receive a settlement).

Mr. Sandusky was found guilty on 45 of 48 counts related to child sexual abuse. Mr. Sandusky has the right to appeal the decision - and has an appeal currently in the courts.

Mr. Fisher had his day in court and was found credible. In the legal system that our country was founded on. But that's not good enough for some of you. Still you want to call him a liar. Why? Because his story changed as he began revealing what happened to him as a child?

I know when I told, I only told about the abuse up until the point that an adult (my parents) reacted. And then I shut down. Telling is one of the hardest things and one of the reasons most vicitms never do. Attend a training course on how to respond when a victim begins telling their story and you will find experts are trained to not react, to remain calm, to show compassion. My mother's first words were "Oh my God, this is all my fault!" and she collapsed to the floor on her knees crying - my father's face turned red and he screamed "I'm going to kill the son of a bitch." I hadn't even scratched the surface of what he had done but at that moment, I stopped talking. It was only later that I was able to say more fully what had occurred, but it took several years for the full truth to come out.

We feel complicit in our abuse. Sex is pleasurable. Even to a child. We begin to question our own role in the abuse - well I liked it - so therefore I.......wanted it? A child's body will react to stimulation just as an adult's would. But the child's mind cannot fully comprehend what is happening to them.

And our abuser make us feel shame/blame/guilt. If you tell anyone you will get into trouble. No one will believe you. Who do you think they will believe? You or me?

I work closely with one of the families from the trial (not Mr. Fisher) and they have been repeatedly harrassed by John Ziegler (and his "followers"); attacked on social media, stalked on their FB and Twitter feeds in much the same fashion as Mr. Fisher has been in this exchange.

These young men had their day in court. They had their childhoods taken from them. They deserve the right to control the narrative of the rest of their lives. Mr. Ziegler, I implore you again - leave these young men and their families alone.

Thank you,
Roxine Behrens
President, Tree-Climbers.org
First, sorry for your experience. But one only has to look to the McMartin case to find examples where "victims" lied, either of their own volition, or via coercion from overzealous prosecutors. There is evidence in this case of that very thing and it was caught on tape during the trial.
 
Oh wait a minute. I didn't mean that message for you. I know that you are a arrogant, shoot from the hip, who will never have an open mind. I meant it for open minded rational folks.

I apologize if you thought I believed you would be open minded about anything.
I wouldnt call Zieglers Facebook confrontation a rational thing that's for sure. He came across as a petty biotch IMO.
 
Jerry at a minimum showered with children. If you think that's okay or doesn't deserve a jail sentence, you are an extremely deranged individual.

You realize that you just accused every adult male that ever played sports, went to camps, or simply camped out with their kids before 1970 a felon? That's why Sandusky was able to do what he did without anyone ever noticing. People weren't nearly as inhibited as they are now.
 
You realize that you just accused every adult male that ever played sports, went to camps, or simply camped out with their kids before 1970 a felon? That's why Sandusky was able to do what he did without anyone ever noticing. People weren't nearly as inhibited as they are now.

LOL yeah, that's exactly what I did. Kind of like calling every pre-1960s adult a racist because there were segregated water fountains.
 
Why not? Fisher doesn't seem to have problems talking with other members of the media. Matt Sandusky had no problem talking with Oprah.

Is JZ a prosecutor? Who is he working for or representing outside of the pedophile? It's not the Paterno's as they distanced themselves form him quite some time ago. I'll ask again, what new piece of "TRUTH" came from him catfighting with Jerry's victim? What was the purpose of this thread he started?
 
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Is JZ a prosecutor? Who is he working for or representing outside of the pedophile? It's not the Paterno's as they distanced themselves form him quite some time ago. I'll ask again, what new piece of "TRUTH" came from him catfighting with Jerry's victim? What was the purpose of this thread he started?
He believes AF to be a liar and that JS is innocent. You don't have to agree with him, but what if he's right? Everybody deserves justice, including Jerry Sandusky.
 
He believes AF to be a liar and that JS is innocent. You don't have to agree with him, but what if he's right? Everybody deserves justice, including Jerry Sandusky.

What piece of information came out with him fighting with the victim? NOTHING, that is what the hunt for the TRUTH revealed in this thread. That is my point, he offered nothing in terms of proving a GD thing with this thread. I don't agree with him and I don't care about JS's little crusaders on this site. I can care less if they upset as Jerry is a POS who will die in jail.
 
One big difference. Water fountains are marked. Pedophiles aren't.

It doesn't make it any more "right".

Look, you're a card-carrying member of the Free Jerry brigade. I get it. I'm not going to change your mind, and you're not going to change mine that you and your cohorts need some serious help.
 
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Maybe JZ could just pay AF's way to Cali? It would be the same expense. And, if he didn't show up..... no expense.
Just a thought.
 
My problem with it is this: we have JZ unsolicitedly messaging Fisher, which goes for a while without incident - albeit with JZ being a bit aggressive and Fisher being a bit defensive. Fisher seems willing, as it seems that he said in the article, to meet in person with JZ rather than over the phone where he seems to be concerned over JZ selectively editing telephone conversations. There seems to be some suspicion from Fisher that people who contact him on Facebook (presumably harassing him) are either actually JZ or acting on JZ's direction. Then, JZ brings up Fisher's car accident out of nowhere - it was uncalled for and pretty clearly causes Fisher to want to end the conversation, but Ziggy doesn't stop there. He keeps pushing and pushing and pushing and sending message after message calling Fisher a liar, just to harass and bully him. It's disgusting.

Fisher called Zig out in a very well known major newspaper. Zig responded. Fisher backed down. So what? What are you so afraid of or upset about?

Both Zig and Fisher are public figures. One issues a public challenge, the other responds, the guy that initiates the challenge backs down. Happens all the time.
It doesn't make it any more "right".

Look, you're a card-carrying member of the Free Jerry brigade. I get it. I'm not going to change your mind, and you're not going to change mine that you and your cohorts need some serious help.

No. I'm a "card carrying member" of what we used to call good hygiene. We used to actually shower after gym class and the such. That way we wouldn't smell like body odor the rest of the day. Kids today must reek to high Heaven.
 
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Maybe JZ could just pay AF's way to Cali? It would be the same expense. And, if he didn't show up..... no expense.
Just a thought.

I'm sure he would if Aaron showed up, did the interview, and gave John the receipts. Zig's not going to just eat a prepaid plane ticket when Aaron ends up being a no-show.
 
LOL, yeah, kids today don't have nice, willing adults like Jerry to show them how to shower, so they must stink all day.

No. I'm a "card carrying member" of what we used to call good hygiene. We used to actually shower after gym class and the such. That way we wouldn't smell like body odor the rest of the day. Kids today must reek to high Heaven.
 
LOL, yeah, kids today don't have nice, willing adults like Jerry to show them how to shower, so they must stink all day.

Serious question psu04. Did you shower after gym class? Or did you just put your clothes back on and stink all day?
 
That exchange on Facebook is absolutely cringe-worthy. JZ doesn't seem to understand how to talk to people, without appearing as though he has some kind of social interaction disorder. That date video is also hilarious, I hadn't seen that before and it shows that even in a casual conversation JZ doesn't comprehend how to hold a normal conversation. You can't get far in investigating anything with approaches like that. AF didn't help matters by continuously replying to him. I don't understand why he just didn't block JZ, problem solved.
 
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Serious question psu04. Did you shower after gym class? Or did you just put your clothes back on and stink all day?

Yes, we showered.....and no, there were not adults in the shower, let alone adults who wanted to give us bear hugs in there.
 
not to muddy the waters, but people who think facing your accuser in a court of law and prevailing means the "victim" cannot possibly be lying, should really google "Brian Banks".

just saying it is ludicrous to make absolute statements of truth based on accusers prevailing in court.

The only truth is Sandusky was convicted of 45 crimes. that doesn't mean he committed them, or that all the witnesses and victims who testified were truthful, or that some serious lapses in prosecutorial protocol SHOULD NOT be re examined.

If I've learned one thing in the last 4 years, it is that everyone has an agenda.
 
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Yes, we showered.....and no, there were not adults in the shower, let alone adults who wanted to give us bear hugs in there.

I have no problem with this perspective, which again points out that this was known in 1998, investigated, and ultimately the DA decided not to pursue charges against Sandusky. Again, showering naked with a child - while creepy to some - was not a crime back then.
 
Serious question psu04. Did you shower after gym class? Or did you just put your clothes back on and stink all day?
Let me say I have been in a shower with adults after gym class. Thank the good lord above none of the adults felt the need to bear hug me or have a little "horseplay". You really telling me you don't see a difference. Wth man.
 
That exchange on Facebook is absolutely cringe-worthy. JZ doesn't seem to understand how to talk to people, without appearing as though he has some kind of social interaction disorder. That date video is also hilarious, I hadn't seen that before and it shows that even in a casual conversation JZ doesn't comprehend how to hold a normal conversation. You can't get far in investigating anything with approaches like that. AF didn't help matters by continuously replying to him. I don't understand why he just didn't block JZ, problem solved.

If "JZ doesn't seem to understand how to talk to people, without appearing as though he has some kind of social interaction disorder", what is Fisher so worried about? Fisher's the one who issued the public challenge. Maybe Aaron could put a lot of this to rest. He's over 21. I'm sure Zig would let Aaron's mother join him.

If I issued a public challenge to you in the Philadelphia Inquirer, I'm sure you would respond also. And you're right about the dating video. It was hilarious. : ^ )
 
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Let me say I have been in a shower with adults after gym class. Thank the good lord above none of the adults felt the need to bear hug me or have a little "horseplay". You really telling me you don't see a difference. Wth man.

Of course you never bothered to read his original post. He said absolutely, positively nothing about "bear hugging". He slapped everyone that ever showered with a kid in one big criminal pot.
 
If "JZ doesn't seem to understand how to talk to people, without appearing as though he has some kind of social interaction disorder", what is Fisher so worried about? Fisher's the one who issued the public challenge. Maybe Aaron could put a lot of this to rest. He's over 21. I'm sure Zig would let Aaron's mother join him.

If I issued a public challenge to you in the Philadelphia Inquirer, I'm sure you would respond also. And you're right about the dating video. It was hilarious. : ^ )

Actually, I probably wouldn't reply to being called out in the paper at all. There's nothing wrong with being the bigger man sometimes and just letting things go. Hashing a topic like this out in social media or a newspaper isn't appropriate, it screams of childish behavior. Neither side is behaving appropriately, but AF will get the public benefit every single time given that he's been acknowledged as a victim of JS. This is a battle JZ cannot win.

Sure, AF was silly for publicly calling out JZ to begin with. Likewise, if JZ really wants to meet with AF, approach is all wrong and his message simply should have been to obtain contact information to privately arrange a meeting. And if I'm AF, I'm not going anywhere near JZ without my lawyers present. AF has nothing to gain by meeting with JZ, why would he even bother? Because of that, JZ should be acquiescing to whatever AF is asking for if he really wants to "break" a big interview. But instead JZ resorts to child-like bickering and attacks.

Of course, hashing it out in private does nothing for AF's book sales or JZ's attempts to continuously draw attention to himself.
 
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Of course you never bothered to read his original post. He said absolutely, positively nothing about "bear hugging". He slapped everyone that ever showered with a kid in one big criminal pot.
Oh I read it. I guess I was just smart enough to figure out what he meant instead of trying to have it fit something else for argument sake. Just my opinion tho
 
Actually, I probably wouldn't reply to being called out in the paper at all. There's nothing wrong with being the bigger man sometimes and just letting things go. Hashing a topic like this out in social media or a newspaper isn't appropriate, it screams of childish behavior. Neither side is behaving appropriately, but AF will get the public benefit every single time given that he's been acknowledged as a victim of JS. This is a battle JZ cannot win.

Sure, AF was silly for publicly calling out JZ to begin with. Likewise, if JZ really wants to meet with AF, approach is all wrong and his message simply should have been to obtain contact information to privately arrange a meeting. And if I'm AF, I'm not going anywhere near JZ without my lawyers present. AF has nothing to gain by meeting with JZ, why would he even bother? Because of that, JZ should be acquiescing to whatever AF is asking for if he really wants to "break" a big interview. But instead JZ resorts to child-like bickering and attacks.

Of course, hashing it out in private does nothing for AF's book sales or JZ's attempts to continuously draw attention to himself.

[And if I'm AF, I'm not going anywhere near JZ without my lawyers present.]

And there you have the problem. According to Dawn (Aaron's mother), the only attorney that seems to be willing to "represent them" is Michael Boni, and that's just to pick up the millions Penn State is handing out. Funny no one will "represent them" against CMHS or the Second Mile, the two entities Dawn and Aaron claim they blame the most after Tom Corbett. The "Commissioners" have told Dawn and Aaron to lay off everyone except Penn State.

As to Zig, my guess is, based on Aaron's perjury in court, and the storm they have weathered so far from the two kids in the car accident, Fisher and Hennessy want nothing to do with Zig.
 
[And if I'm AF, I'm not going anywhere near JZ without my lawyers present.]

And there you have the problem. According to Dawn (Aaron's mother), the only attorney that seems to be willing to "represent them" is Michael Boni, and that's just to pick up the millions Penn State is handing out. Funny no one will "represent them" against CMHS or the Second Mile, the two entities Dawn and Aaron claim they blame the most after Tom Corbett. The "Commissioners" have told Dawn and Aaron to lay off everyone except Penn State.

As to Zig, my guess is, based on Aaron's perjury in court, and the storm they have weathered so far from the two kids in the car accident, Fisher and Hennessy want nothing to do with Zig.
 
It's the same 5-10 sick bastards in all of these threads that think attacking victims is okay in pursuit of "the truth".

Here's the facts... JS was found guilty on 45 counts on 10 victims. More than a dozen more victims were identified and could certainly face Sandusky in court if needed. It's not needed though because the pedo is in jail for the rest of his life, which is where he belongs.
 
It's the same 5-10 sick bastards in all of these threads that think attacking victims is okay in pursuit of "the truth".

Here's the facts... JS was found guilty on 45 counts on 10 victims. More than a dozen more victims were identified and could certainly face Sandusky in court if needed. It's not needed though because the pedo is in jail for the rest of his life, which is where he belongs.

A dozen more "victims" passed up a payday.

Yeah. You're believable.
 
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