ACC
- Thread starter PSU4U
- Start date
I personally don’t care what happens with the ACC, but the timing of this news after the creation of this thread (and ensuing dogpiling) is objectively hilarious.
True. It’s been a while since I read about the ACC details but IIRC, there were 2 issues.
First was if espn didn’t renew the tv contract. That would kil the conference in like 2 years. Done deal for FSU/ Clemson. That has now been renewed and so the focus is on part 2.
That’s the claim that the ACC was deceptive in contract dealing and didn’t give the facts to the individual schools. I forget the exact details but it was about nepotism with the ACC commissioner’s kid at a network and not getting individual schools needed approval for a change to ratify the new contract changes (?). That’s still up in the air last I heard.
Last edited:
There’s really competing interests and approaches that get blended in this debate. GA Tech is a good academic school. No president would have objections in that regard. That said, they’re not the typical large land grant, primary university in the state. They’re a relatively small private school. Similar to Tulane, Duke, Vanderbilt, Pitt, Northwestern.
The current conference expansion is all about $$ and that, bluntly, is all about football money which is based on tv ratings/ demand. Even basketball is a far second concern.
So while academics are nice, they aren’t what’s driving this expansion.
I know people want to be more high minded about the academics but that’s irrelevant in the current process. It’s about increasing money to outspend the other conferences in coaching salaries, NIL, facilities, etc. Adding schools like GA Tech, UVA, Duke, Pitt, NC St, BC, Syracuse, just doesn’t make financial sense.
The current conference expansion is all about $$ and that, bluntly, is all about football money which is based on tv ratings/ demand. Even basketball is a far second concern.
So while academics are nice, they aren’t what’s driving this expansion.
I know people want to be more high minded about the academics but that’s irrelevant in the current process. It’s about increasing money to outspend the other conferences in coaching salaries, NIL, facilities, etc. Adding schools like GA Tech, UVA, Duke, Pitt, NC St, BC, Syracuse, just doesn’t make financial sense.
This is all a part of what's been widely reported/leaked this week. UNC/NC State a package deal - currently a target of ESPN/SEC. GT hasn't been much of the discussion. The Big Ten wants in Florida - Miami/FSU targets but not until these legal issues get worked out. They're willing to stand pat for now.
The ACC gets stuck backfilling with lesser schools.
Last edited:
I look at a GaTech as a school that doesn't necessarily bring GaTech fans to the TV but a place that brings the B1G Network to Atlanta. You have to look at TV markets. That is why adding a PA school makes no sense because they already have a PA market. Getting into the southeast and Texas are probably the 2 targets now for the B1G.
Markets aren't quite as important now as they once were...I do agree with you about Georgia Tech and getting into the southeast (I dont but Clemson FSU or even Miami) but UNC UVa and GT.
The Texas ship as sailed. Houston nor TCU make sense. A&M isn't happening.
Ga Tech (Atlanta) and Miami make some sense. Lots of B1G Alumni in those areas. As CFB becomes more like the NFL, good to have NFL cities. It is about streaming TV markets, recruiting area, brand. Recruiting area is important, see MD and Rutgers. Good programs in good match ups drive ratings, and to be a good program requires good recruits. I really want UNC and UVA, we'll see. I am also warm on Texas Tech now that I looked at them. 40,000 students on campus, plan to attain AAU, in Texas, have an airport. A reduced share for a while, could make some sense.
Also, the conference can't all be juggernauts, some middling programs is good (for Penn State at least).
So in a nut shell, I want UVA, UNC, Ga Tech, Miami, Texas Tech. Also think Colorado, Utah, and Arizona State (or Arizona) make sense. That's 26 I believe. Obviously ND. And I'd take Stanford (San Francisco, Oakland) or Boston College (Boston) if ND required. With reduced shares and taking share away from ACC, B12, etc., it can work.
Also, the conference can't all be juggernauts, some middling programs is good (for Penn State at least).
So in a nut shell, I want UVA, UNC, Ga Tech, Miami, Texas Tech. Also think Colorado, Utah, and Arizona State (or Arizona) make sense. That's 26 I believe. Obviously ND. And I'd take Stanford (San Francisco, Oakland) or Boston College (Boston) if ND required. With reduced shares and taking share away from ACC, B12, etc., it can work.
Last edited:
If the Big looks at recruiting, you can't beat getting into Georgia (Tech) and Florida (Miami). Okay, next to Texas.
Well maybe not. Late last week UNC began coddling up to the Big Ten. That new TV extension seemingly has changed nothing when it comes to teams leaving the ACC. The lawsuits are not going away and private equity will be big players going forward. While nothing will likely happen soon the rumblings continue.
Would UNC be a package deal with NC State? Not sure of the political climate in North Carolina. If not, they need to a partner. Perhaps Miami or GT in that situation.
I’m assuming UNC would want Duke as their partner, likely followed by UVA and then NC St. I have no idea what the politicians in NC would insist on, (if they even can).
Growing up UNC vs NC St was the big basketball rivalry game you’d see on national tv on a Saturday. That got passed by UNC vs Duke in the mid/ late 80s. The NC St rivalry appears to be pretty minor now (from an outsider’s perspective).
One would assume that UNC prefers to leave with Duke, but Duke is private and NC State may have to be a package with UNC depending on the political situation in the state (both are public .) Or UNC may need to share revenue with NC State. UCLA is required to make “Calimony” payments to Berkley for example.
UNC/NCSU have always "allegedly" been tied together--not Duke. Yes, obviously Duke/UNC is an elite basketball rivalry but not a priority
I'm not like a lot of people who think a UNC NCS package would be a terrible thing. Not sure how the Big Ten views that at the moment. I think last year if UNC would have come in, I think they would have accepted NCS if they had to, today maybe not. The Big Ten thinks there are only two real plumbs right now ND and UNC. We all know ND is a very long shot at best and they do want that Florida market too so FSU would be a real possibility especially without a ND. At the right time GT could be a bigger player than some think. Some people suggest that both Clemson and FSU will be Big Ten all the way, I don't think so. We can't lose sight of the SEC and Big Ten collaboration and what deals there that may be going on behind the scenes. Also, Petitti is all about eyeballs and potential eyeballs (markets) more than brands. So, in the right situation it's not unthinkable that FSU and GT get in. But right now, IMO it's still all about ND and UNC or ND FSU. If for whatever reason they couldn't get FSU, then Miami would probably have a shot.
There is a guy who's on a podcast with another fellow who claims to have a direct line (contact) in the PS athletic department, and he supposedly gets a lot if not all of his Big Ten info from that source. That is not exactly correct unless you consider a person in broadcasting as being in the athletic department. Won't mention the broadcaster by name.
Does the B1G still require AAU status? If so, NC St, Clemson and FSU are currently ineligible. Is UNC a big enough catch that the conference would relax the AAU requirement for NC St if they are required to be a package deal by that state?
I know FSU are actively seeking AAU status. From what I’ve read, a lot of it had to do with the way their med school (and associated research) was organized. IIRC, they didn’t have a set FSU health system and were negotiating with a Tallahassee hospital system to correct that. It was similar to the Nebraska issue with AAU. Given Nebraska- AAU is preferable, but negotiable, to the Big Ten.
On AAU it depends on the school. Miami has AAU FSU is very close in that regard. But no AAU is not a current requirement, but I do think you would have to be making a serious effort to get there.
If you just looked at current eyeballs maybe UNC would be considered a risk, but that market and the potential eyeballs are huge. Plus, there's basketball and then also the Acedemic side of it that the presidents are in love with. There is a lot to like about UNC that the average fan doesn't consider as it seems most fans are laser focused on a winning football program for them to be happy. If UNC or any program in the ACC had Big Ten money and marketing all would be much better down the road than they are today. On basketball that doesn't really move the needle but in UNC's case you get a twofer and that is never a bad thing.
On NCS I don't think they are a take today no matter what UNC wants but that's just me.
On markets and fan following you don't get with UNC what you get with FSU but it is nothing to be sneezed at same with GT and that Atlanta market. GA doesn't have the death grip on that market that some think. When looking at teams like UNC or a GT you have to take into consideration what would happen with those programs with Big Ten money and marketing. Things get really interesting when you see teams like PS OSU MI SC UCLA WA and OR coming to town on a regular basis.
On the expansion front I think things heat back up in March and April not that there will be moves necessarily but there should be some interesting leaks.
This just in I think a settlement between the ACC Clemson and FSU is coming. At least there will be an attempt on the ACC's part but will it be acceptable.
Last edited:
I agree with a lot of what you’ve said but I have to respectfully take issue with this assumption. Big Ten money and marketing doesn’t equal improved program. See Purdue, Indiana, Minnesota, Michigan State, Maryland, Rutgers, Nebraska, Illinois, Northwestern.
UNC does have much more upside. Georgia Tech has very little. In terms of people’s interest and eyeballs in Atlanta, Georgia Tech are so far back in the line they might as well be in Mississippi.
I think GaTech is higher than that but definitely not on the level of UNCI agree with a lot of what you’ve said but I have to respectfully take issue with this assumption. Big Ten money and marketing doesn’t equal improved program. See Purdue, Indiana, Minnesota, Michigan State, Maryland, Rutgers, Nebraska, Illinois, Northwestern.
UNC does have much more upside. Georgia Tech has very little. In terms of people’s interest and eyeballs in Atlanta, Georgia Tech are so far back in the line they might as well be in Mississippi.
At some point green pastures cease to be green if you overload them. I get why schools want out of the ACC but at some point the big ten and sec are going to stop letting teams in.
That's the rub. It is believed that any settlement offers coming from the ACC would be designed to end lawsuits have teams stay within the conference and accept the media extension. The question is would FSU accept any of those, I think it is highly doubtful but maybe Clemson might.
The thing about these types of deals offered is they get negotiated into something different that both sides can live with. The only reason the ACC is willing to talk is they are about to get their asses kicked in the Florida case and they know it. It gets extremely expensive to pursue things up the line once you've lost especially to the US Supreme court.
There is also NO guarantee that the next court up will be willing to hear the case, so I think it's negotiation time for the ACC. It's not like the ACC is flush with cash they are not. Certainly not for court cases of that magnitude.
Where there is money for presidents you will always find acceptance and the presidents do the voting which brings up another potential holdup on Big 10 expansion in the east. None of the teams in the west want more expansion unless it's teams in the west. It will be hard to get anyone from Wisconsin west to vote for more eastern teams. Just saying.
I do not blame them at all. There needs to be at least 1 or 2 more western schools to pod up regions in a larger conversation to help with travel concerns. I think Stanford may need to be included with an FSU or Miami expansion at some point in the future to make it palatable for all parties.
Just from a playing football perspective and aside from all other considerations I would be OK with Stanford Utah and or a team from Texas such as a Baylor or a TCU. Please no state filled with brain-dead people Colorado.
It leaked that FSU legal fees so far are over 3 million dollars. They don't have to sign the new agreement until Aug 2025 but even if they do it shouldn't deter or make it any harder for them to leave. I have it that they are going to continue the lawsuit no matter what. So things are starting to heat up. I think we hear something more significant in the March April timeframe.
AAU is not a requirement as the B1G would've taken the Domers before they got it.
That being said, school needs to be fairly close/striving to attain it which is where FSU is at; otoh, probably no real interest in adding Clemson.
Domers hit all the requirements, but they aren't interested at this juncture.
Only realistic options are FSU, Miami and maybe GT down the road if they attain a certain level of success; UNC is a no-go if tied at the hip with NCST.
The rest either don't fit the academic profile (not just AAU, which isn't a requirement) or would just make the pie slices smaller for conference members.
Even successful programs like Oregon (late games don't help) have trouble moving the needle with regard to attaining 4 million viewers (which is what the networks need to get the highest advertising rates), which is why the B1G is still behind the SEC in terms of having more than 1 game/wk hit that number, which is a problem when there are 3 networks looking to recoup their investment.
Aside from expansion targets like FSU that will move the needle, there's impetus to go back to an 8 game conference schedule with 2 OOC games scheduled SEC schools.
Last edited:
Today UNC seriously exploring realignment, but that shouldn't be a secret as other ACC teams not named FSU or Clemson are. For more than two years, the Univ. of North Carolina has “secretly sunk more than” $600,000 into legal bills for a “behind-closed-doors exploration of conference realignment.
Last edited:
Discovery suit filed against UNC on their behind-the-scenes exploration/plans to exit the ACC. This one is going to get wild. NC People are breaking out all the guns to keep UNC from leaving.
UNC is going to run into the same issues FSU and Clemson have. Once ESPN decided to pick up the remaining ACC contract years, they’re all locked in until 1 of them (or all 3) win some settlement in court. Since courts move at a glacial pace, the original tv contract may be up before they get a judgement.
The ACC is the next move for the Big Ten. Take UVA, UNC, Duke, Georgia Tech and Miami while expanding out west to take the Big Ten national and hold their own post season. 100% logical and almost certainly is the plan.
Any AAU school will have a very strong preference for the Big Ten. Realignment extends well beyond the playing field. The reason Penn State has turned into a research juggernaut isn't football and some foolishly believe, it is because of the Big Ten's academic side. The Big Ten is primarily and academic conference, not athletic.
Similar threads
