Ahem - NCAA fires shots across the bow of MSU
- Thread starter wensilver
- Start date
Maybe he should hire Freeh to do the NCAA's investigation.
This.
To have these young women have to get up there and tell their stories was incredible. While it was empowering for them, and brought the scope and magnitude of Nassar's crimes FINALLY into national focus - to have the media and public opinion since 2012 gleefully run with "football cover up" - and to have anyone who even DARE ask ANY questions about that narrative shouted down as Football Crazed Child Rape Enablers is yet another slap in the face to these women and girls.
I think that's what pisses me off the most.
And now I see a bunch of personalities with national platforms (both men and women) jumping on this story asking why it's not getting national attention. Oh FFS. < smacks head on desk >
JEEZUS - perhaps you assholes were too busy shaking your Pom Poms over a "football cover up" and those "evil PSU admins and Joe Paterno" with your moral indignation and righteousness to even notice?
Exhibit A: the like of Gregg Doyel & Keith Olbermann
LOL. That douche bag on the MSU BOT should have kept his big mouth shut.
Bad attention for Olympic sports would lead to bad attention for football and basketball. They had to cover up to protect the brand.
In all this nonsense, you try to gloss over that the solitary misdemeanor that he was convicted of had nothing to do with "a coverup".
And the Michigan man again spews his BS!!!! You should go away since Nassar is a product of your school, Michnotalion!!!
Based on precedent, I would expect emmert to announce the harsh sanctions against michigan state (DEATH. PENALTY. 
) next week.
) next week.
All this time and NCAA waits until now to launch investigation? This is pure publicity stunt to act like they did something but realistically at last minute when it is meaningless. There will be no penalties and pressure will be off once Nassar is sentenced. Media will turn elsewhere..watch.
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the NCAA was not moved to act when nearly 200 student athletes were molested.
but once that arrogant trustee ruffled their egos . . .
That is correct. But the NCAA has no place in this. The NCAA should let law enforcement and the civil trials take place and then make a decision. NCAA should NOT get involved in law enforcement. It will just create more of a mess.
I agree they should let law enforcement do their job, but these incidents did involve the abuse of student-athletes, and the obvious failures of MSU to follow reporting procedures. LOIC, anyone?? Title IX investigation also seems proper.
But my more specific point was that the NCAA was not concerned about the welfare of student-athletes until they got publicly dissed by a MSU trustee.
So even if you ignore the fact that PSU had zero student athlete victims and MSU has victims from at least 5 sports, based on the relative number of victims who have testified in court, MSU's fine should be on the order of $1.2 Billion, right?
Still nothing from Delany? How about with withholding some MSU B1G money and create a fund for victims or redistribute to other member institutions. Paging Delany...
If no MSU athletes were involved (i.e. if it was only a USAG issue), I would agree with you. But since this is essentially a "player safety issue" (sorry, not trying to be flippant), this does become an NCAA issue. An admittedly bad analogy would be if the NCAA found that a team doctor was handing out steroids and pain killers like candy.
With so many sports, wouldn’t this be a case of Lack of Institutional Control?
msu athletics should be shut down. And no it wouldn’t hurt the current students cause they could transfer.
michnitlion: "Some folks here continue to refuse to accept it, but because the Earth looks flat from most people's ignorant perspective, the right thing to do is ignore our actual understanding/knowledge that it's in fact not flat, and just acquiesce to something that is wrong."
To each their own, but I disagree with that approach.
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I imagine both the NCAA and BT won't be doing victory laps this time. File that under lessons learned for idiots.
Following penalties will follow:
1) All MSU Gymnasts able to transfer immediately
2) Fines reflected to MSU Gymnast earnings over the last 15 years...$27,560 dollars
3) MSU Gymnast records immediately retracted
4) MSU Gymnast Scholarship reduction...1 per year..next 3 years
5) MSU to administer update report to Ex Senator Mitchell to make sure compliance issues being met
6) No TV coverage of any MSU Gymnastic events
The NCAA would like to "thank" Simon and the MSU BOT for being so responsible and acting within good faith to handling the Worlds Largest Sex Abuse scandal...ever. ever.
Huh?
If Penn State actually hid, or "covered up" known sexual abuse/molestation -- even if the perpetrator and victim(s) weren't under any purview of the university -- for the sake of protecting its athletic program(s), it would absolutely be appropriate for the NCAA to be involved.
Where the NCAA went wrong in our case is that the evidence of that being the case was initially very shaky at best, and as things became clearer, ultimately there was virtually no evidence of it at all, let alone proof.
That's not true in the MSU case. Victims are on record indicating that they were pressured not to take information about their abuse/molestation any further for the SOLE FACT that it would hurt their athletic programs, and the people in them. Institutionally, it appears quite likely that they protected their athletic programs/reputations at the expense of more young women being sexually abused/molested. This is both a criminal matter, and a matter for the NCAA.
LACK OF INSTITUTIONAL CONTROL. How many kids were molested after 2014???
https://scout.com/college/michigan-...rnal-EMAIL-Leaked-to-Spartan-Nation-114128214
Upon reviewing the EMAIL and consulting with counsel, Spartan Nation reached out to Lyons to verify the authenticity of the document and that it was sent to the Board of Trustees this morning. Lyons responded to our voice mail via text at 1:47 PM. Here is the complete text:
“I am not denying I sent the emails to fellow board members yesterday and today. However, those were intended to be board communications only.”
Here is the email in its entirety.
Fellow Trustees,
This LSJ editorial is just the beginning. I implore you to do the right thing for this university. I've told many of you since we first learned of this situation in the fall of 2016, when the timeline was presented to us and we all recognized the lack of oversight in the 2014 protocol implementation, that this was a significant problem for President Simon. More recently, when we learned that Nassar had been allowed to come back to work when the criminal investigation had not been officially resolved, I said the same thing. That day is now here. President Simon should step down immediately in the interests of this university. Whatever impact this does or doesn't have on civil litigation, and/or on President Simon's legacy, are NOT and SHOULD NOT be our top concern at this point.
The only remaining audience in support of her are employees and a dwindling number of donors and soon to be dwindling corporate partners. This isn't going away. We should begin immediately considering an outside stabilizing influence that can step in as interim president, regain the public's trust, and lead us through this turbulent time.
https://www.lansingstatejournal.com...rsonal-statements-regarding-simon/1057506001/
Be Prosperous, Mitch Lyons
https://scout.com/college/michigan-...rnal-EMAIL-Leaked-to-Spartan-Nation-114128214
Upon reviewing the EMAIL and consulting with counsel, Spartan Nation reached out to Lyons to verify the authenticity of the document and that it was sent to the Board of Trustees this morning. Lyons responded to our voice mail via text at 1:47 PM. Here is the complete text:
“I am not denying I sent the emails to fellow board members yesterday and today. However, those were intended to be board communications only.”
Here is the email in its entirety.
Fellow Trustees,
This LSJ editorial is just the beginning. I implore you to do the right thing for this university. I've told many of you since we first learned of this situation in the fall of 2016, when the timeline was presented to us and we all recognized the lack of oversight in the 2014 protocol implementation, that this was a significant problem for President Simon. More recently, when we learned that Nassar had been allowed to come back to work when the criminal investigation had not been officially resolved, I said the same thing. That day is now here. President Simon should step down immediately in the interests of this university. Whatever impact this does or doesn't have on civil litigation, and/or on President Simon's legacy, are NOT and SHOULD NOT be our top concern at this point.
The only remaining audience in support of her are employees and a dwindling number of donors and soon to be dwindling corporate partners. This isn't going away. We should begin immediately considering an outside stabilizing influence that can step in as interim president, regain the public's trust, and lead us through this turbulent time.
https://www.lansingstatejournal.com...rsonal-statements-regarding-simon/1057506001/
Be Prosperous, Mitch Lyons
"Seems to imply that msu knew about Simon's 2014 desk report for alot longer then they have let on to. Also seems to imply it was more botched then they have been saying
So that’s exactly what’s going for surface. And this internal memo presents a huge legal risk for MSU in two ways. 1) the BOT knew about 2014 and also knew it was mishandled...which is bad enough. 2) this email will be obtained as evidence. If it contradicts sworn testimony from the police or FBI investigation, MSU is completely focked. Then there’s two versions of the story out there about what happened in 2014 and opens people up MSU to all sorts of civil and criminal risk.
This leaked letter is flying a little under the radar right now with the NCAA news but could represent a huge, huge problem for MSU."
Sports Illustrated article.
https://www.si.com/olympics/2018/01/23/michigan-state-failure-larry-nassar-scandal
But in the last two years, where has Michigan State been? The school failed to show much empathy. It failed to properly investigate. Where are the quotes from Simon expressing disgust that this happened on her watch? Where is the fury at Klages? Why isn’t she outraged that her school botched its 2014 investigation?
In 2014, Michigan State conducted its Title IX investigation of Nassar—and allowed him to choose one of the doctors who would ultimately clear him. It let him practice for 16 months while he was being investigated—and of course, he kept assaulting at that time. In the end, Nassar was cleared to return to work, but he was told he needed to have a chaperone in the room during "sensitive" treatments, which itself is disgusting. Would you see a doctor if you knew he needed a chaperone in the room?
Simon should have led the charge on this more than a year ago. She didn’t.
Instead of acknowledging Michigan State’s failures, she claimed it was “virtually impossible to stop a determined sexual predator and pedophile.” Instead of moral leadership, the Michigan State community gets Simon showing up in court for part of one day—and then, only after survivors and the media called her out. They get the MSU board of trustees publicly supporting her in the hopes that this will fade.
https://www.si.com/olympics/2018/01/23/michigan-state-failure-larry-nassar-scandal
But in the last two years, where has Michigan State been? The school failed to show much empathy. It failed to properly investigate. Where are the quotes from Simon expressing disgust that this happened on her watch? Where is the fury at Klages? Why isn’t she outraged that her school botched its 2014 investigation?
In 2014, Michigan State conducted its Title IX investigation of Nassar—and allowed him to choose one of the doctors who would ultimately clear him. It let him practice for 16 months while he was being investigated—and of course, he kept assaulting at that time. In the end, Nassar was cleared to return to work, but he was told he needed to have a chaperone in the room during "sensitive" treatments, which itself is disgusting. Would you see a doctor if you knew he needed a chaperone in the room?
Simon should have led the charge on this more than a year ago. She didn’t.
Instead of acknowledging Michigan State’s failures, she claimed it was “virtually impossible to stop a determined sexual predator and pedophile.” Instead of moral leadership, the Michigan State community gets Simon showing up in court for part of one day—and then, only after survivors and the media called her out. They get the MSU board of trustees publicly supporting her in the hopes that this will fade.
Also, it’s amusing that internal investigations at institutions of higher learning have shown to be worthless in that the reports are exactly the outcomes that the parties involve desire.
PSU - Guilty
msu - title IX - nothing to see here
And why would they report anything if they think they’re going to get away with it? The whole insitiution’s reputation is at stake. Therein lies one of the problems.
PSU - Guilty
msu - title IX - nothing to see here
And why would they report anything if they think they’re going to get away with it? The whole insitiution’s reputation is at stake. Therein lies one of the problems.
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Nassar - use a chaperone -----> Michigan State
Sandusky - wear swimming trunks -----> Second Mile
Sandusky - wear swimming trunks -----> Second Mile
Look at the bright side. The whole farce wastes MSU's time and costs them money. And there is also the possibility they start snooping around and find more shiz. And it's bad optics for any school to be under NCAA spotlight.If the NCAA fires any "shots", the entry point of the bullet is most likely to end up going through their own dick.
Now that the media outrage has forced them to "posture", the best case scenarios
- Waste a lot of time, for a lot of people, that would be better used elsewhere.
- Transfer significant sums of "someone else's" money into the pockets of a few law firms.
- Send ass-hats like Emmert up in front of a microphone, to bite their lip and express their "horror" wrt the events at MSU and to climb as high as possible to plant their flag on Moral Outrage Mountain.
Other than those benefits
Sending in the NCAA SWAT team - into a legal/ethical/moral conundrum - is about as useful as sandpaper toilet tissue.
'Moral Outrage Mountain' - I like it. Makes the Himalayas look like sand dunes.
If the NCAA fires any "shots", the entry point of the bullet is most likely to end up going through their own dick.
Now that the media outrage has forced them to "posture", the best case scenarios
- Waste a lot of time, for a lot of people, that would be better used elsewhere.
- Transfer significant sums of "someone else's" money into the pockets of a few law firms.
- Send ass-hats like Emmert up in front of a microphone, to bite their lip and express their "horror" wrt the events at MSU and to climb as high as possible to plant their flag on Moral Outrage Mountain.
Other than those benefits
Sending in the NCAA SWAT team - into a legal/ethical/moral conundrum - is about as useful as sandpaper toilet tissue.
At what point--if ever--do you expect Delany to start showing indignation and checking to see if he has the latitude to "fire a president."
I think you will remember that he wanted to make sure he wasn't swept up in any virtue signaling from the Media and others. He checked to see if he could "fire a football coach."
Thanks for fixing that, Judge.
When history has written about these incidents, a long time from now, it will without a doubt show that they have nothing in common. Except that two universities were involved - and one got wrapped up in a political sh!tstorm, where the public outcry was so deafening that no one involved had a chance to come out unscathed.
When history has written about these incidents, a long time from now, it will without a doubt show that they have nothing in common. Except that two universities were involved - and one got wrapped up in a political sh!tstorm, where the public outcry was so deafening that no one involved had a chance to come out unscathed.
Agreed 100%. If the NCAA were smart (which.... yeah) they would put out a release and state that they are going to let the LAW investigate first since laws were broken. After the investigation concludes, they are going to step in and use that investigation to be the basis of their investigation into lack of institutional control. I think that having congruent investigations is only going to muddy the waters. Lurk in the background, waiting for the legal investigation, then pounce on the NCAA investigation.
My question(s): was Klages fired (read that yesterday somewhere) or did she retire (as the article from the OP reports)?
I also read that upon learning of Nassar's possible criminality in 2014, they immediately fired him... which doesn't jibe with other things i've read.
Anyone know?
I also read that upon learning of Nassar's possible criminality in 2014, they immediately fired him... which doesn't jibe with other things i've read.
Anyone know?
How could Pat Narduzzi not have heard something or known about this during his time at MSU. Why didn't he call the police?
Ahem - Dan Wolken shot back at me on Twitter that Bylaws have to be violated for the NCAA to get involved.
However..................
The NCAA exercised its power through a never-before-used process in which its leaders and governing committees were the ones who impose the penalties, essentially declaring that the association has the authority not only to enforce specific rules but to ensure that college programs act ethically.
Mark Emmert discusses that authority: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmY...
Ed Ray, Chair of the NCAA Executive Committee & Mark Emmert
The following is a transcript of Ed Ray's comments made here in the first few minutes when discussing the Penn State sanctions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktm...
“Good morning, I'm Ed Ray, President Oregon State University and chair of the executive committee of the NCAA. The historically unprecedented actions by the NCAA today are warranted by the conspiracy of silence that was maintained at the highest levels of the University in reckless and callous disregard for the children. There's incredible interest in what will happen to Penn State football but the fundamental story of this horrific chapter should focus on the innocent children and the powerful people who let them down.
There's also been much speculation on whether or not the NCAA has the authority to impose any type of penalty related to Penn State. Not only does the NCAA have the authority to act in this case, we also have the responsibility to say that such egregious behavior is not only against our bylaws and constitution, but also against our value system and basic human decency.
The executive committee which acts on behalf of the entire Association and implements policies to resolve core issues along with the Division 1 Board, a body of presidents representing all of Division one, directed President Emmert to examine the circumstances surrounding the Penn State tragedy, and if appropriate make recommendations regarding punitive and corrective measures.
As a result of the information produced from the Sandusky criminal investigation and the Freeh report, which Penn State commissioned and also agreed to its findings, it became obvious that the leadership failures at Penn State over an extended period of time directly violated association bylaws and the NCAA Constitution relating to control over the athletic department, integrity, and ethical conduct.
The corrective and punitive measures the executive committee in the Division 1 Board of Directors have authorized should serve as a stark wake-up call to everyone involved in college sports that our first responsibility, as outlined in our Constitution, is to adhere to the fundamental values of respect, fairness, civility, honesty and responsibility.
I'll now turn to president Emmert to discuss today's actions and what is expected at Penn State in the future.”
And just in case you missed it, Ed Ray testified in a deposition that he didn't read the Freeh Report or even the Consent Decree before making the above statements.
However..................
The NCAA exercised its power through a never-before-used process in which its leaders and governing committees were the ones who impose the penalties, essentially declaring that the association has the authority not only to enforce specific rules but to ensure that college programs act ethically.
Mark Emmert discusses that authority: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmY...
Ed Ray, Chair of the NCAA Executive Committee & Mark Emmert
The following is a transcript of Ed Ray's comments made here in the first few minutes when discussing the Penn State sanctions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktm...
“Good morning, I'm Ed Ray, President Oregon State University and chair of the executive committee of the NCAA. The historically unprecedented actions by the NCAA today are warranted by the conspiracy of silence that was maintained at the highest levels of the University in reckless and callous disregard for the children. There's incredible interest in what will happen to Penn State football but the fundamental story of this horrific chapter should focus on the innocent children and the powerful people who let them down.
There's also been much speculation on whether or not the NCAA has the authority to impose any type of penalty related to Penn State. Not only does the NCAA have the authority to act in this case, we also have the responsibility to say that such egregious behavior is not only against our bylaws and constitution, but also against our value system and basic human decency.
The executive committee which acts on behalf of the entire Association and implements policies to resolve core issues along with the Division 1 Board, a body of presidents representing all of Division one, directed President Emmert to examine the circumstances surrounding the Penn State tragedy, and if appropriate make recommendations regarding punitive and corrective measures.
As a result of the information produced from the Sandusky criminal investigation and the Freeh report, which Penn State commissioned and also agreed to its findings, it became obvious that the leadership failures at Penn State over an extended period of time directly violated association bylaws and the NCAA Constitution relating to control over the athletic department, integrity, and ethical conduct.
The corrective and punitive measures the executive committee in the Division 1 Board of Directors have authorized should serve as a stark wake-up call to everyone involved in college sports that our first responsibility, as outlined in our Constitution, is to adhere to the fundamental values of respect, fairness, civility, honesty and responsibility.
I'll now turn to president Emmert to discuss today's actions and what is expected at Penn State in the future.”
And just in case you missed it, Ed Ray testified in a deposition that he didn't read the Freeh Report or even the Consent Decree before making the above statements.
