All Star Classic - Sat, Nov 16

[Lyons212]

I'll just say Facundo's freestyle chops don't seem to be suffering in State College.

My biggest issue is with the position that if young men don't make the starting lineup at some point, they will transfer. There are (at least) two flaws with this. One, most of these guys' goal is to become NCAA or Olympic champs. If you can't beat another guy in the room, why would you think it's more likely to come out ahead of him by going to another school? It's more likely they stay in the room, try to get better and win the spot. It's one thing if it becomes clear you're not a D1 wrestler. Then, fine, transfer to a D2 or D3 school. Two, most of the guys are smart enough to know they will reach their top potential in the best room in the country, not in a lesser room. It's a different story after someone graduates and is looking at graduate programs.

There are a lot of legitimate reasons to leave PSU if you are not the starter. Facundo might not be good enough to start at PSU or win a national championship, however he would be a threat to reach All American status, not many people can say that. For all the time effort someone is putting into wrestling, going somewhere where you can actually wrestle real matches and not watch them has to be enticing. Financial opportunities, being an out-of-state student at PSU can be quite expensive (no idea how much aid Facundo receives).

If you are a room guy, being in the program is plenty of reward, reality is most of them will be room guys wherever they go. I have immense respect for the room guys. They often have to make weight for meets for "just-in-case" and they are busting their butts in practice. Difficult enough to be a student-athlete, even harder for a wrestler. For those reasons, I can see why someone who was an elite recruit might want to transfer some place they can start.

 

[wrestlingfan22]

Simple: if you don't start, you have 0% chance of reaching your goals.

If you leave, there is a non-zero chance of somebody else beating your former teammate at NCAAs so you don't have to.

Dean finished 7th the year Beard left. Beard lost in the blood round, so he didn't live up to his end of the equation. But the decision to leave, start elsewhere, and let someone else beat Dean proved correct for him.

Doesn't mean it's the right choice for everyone -- only that it's a clear, obvious, straight-forward basis for such a decision.

Also with the Beard example, he ended up beating Dean that year. So it is clear that going to another program can help guys beat people they wouldn't have while at PSU

 

[McScoreley]

Another crazy thought, maybe some of these kids realize wrestling doesn't last forever and are at peace with not being a starter in March because they are firmly entrenched in the team, school and community in other ways besides being a wrestler? Would love to find the post but someone on this board previously posted they met Beau Bartlett's dad and he talked about how Cael introduced Beau to people in his network in business when Beau expressed interest in it. This was I believe when Beau was an undersized and struggling 149 but his dad said Beau wouldn't have left PSU even if he never started again.

With NIL and 30 scholarships coming, it's safe to say Cael will take care of his wrestlers financially, in the very least, none of them should have large tuition bills they pay themselves anymore when they're grinding for the team year round even if they aren't the starter.

I've spoken with several former PSU wrestlers who never started a postseason for Cael, all of them know Cael is always a phone call away if they need his help for anything.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

There are a lot of legitimate reasons to leave PSU if you are not the starter. Facundo might not be good enough to start at PSU or win a national championship, however he would be a threat to reach All American status, not many people can say that. For all the time effort someone is putting into wrestling, going somewhere where you can actually wrestle real matches and not watch them has to be enticing. Financial opportunities, being an out-of-state student at PSU can be quite expensive (no idea how much aid Facundo receives).

If you are a room guy, being in the program is plenty of reward, reality is most of them will be room guys wherever they go. I have immense respect for the room guys. They often have to make weight for meets for "just-in-case" and they are busting their butts in practice. Difficult enough to be a student-athlete, even harder for a wrestler. For those reasons, I can see why someone who was an elite recruit might want to transfer some place they can start.

Well said. I think these are the reasons we continue to root for Michael Beard and Terrell Barraclough. They will receive plenty of PSU fan support at nationals. I see that PSU fan mentality continuing for any others who follow a similar path.

I can't say the same of ASU fans who saw Parco and Teemer leave. We'll, maybe just Teemer, since Parco was on loan from defunct Fresno State.

I even expect Iowa fans will support Aiden Riggins as much as is reasonable if he wrestles in the upcoming CyHawk dual. It pretty much goes without saying they will root for Glazier.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

With ... 30 scholarships coming

Cael is on record stating the school is highly unlikely to give out 30 full-rides for wrestling. Too much uncertainty surrounding revenue sharing among schools and within sports of a school. And there appears to be potential Title IX implications.

Cutting the roster to a 30 person limit is another matter. Cody said at the social, coaches have pushed back and want a gradual reduction.

Whether PSU NIL for wrestling will ever grow large enough to sustainably support the financial equivalent of the full roster-size remains to be seen. Hopefully it's somebody's goal. I would love to see that happen.

 

[McScoreley]

Cael is on record stating the school is highly unlikely to give out 30 full-rides for wrestling. Too much uncertainty surrounding revenue sharing among schools and within sports of a school. And there appears to be potential Title IX implications.

Cutting the roster to a 30 person limit is another matter. Cody said at the social, coaches have pushed back and want a gradual reduction.

Whether PSU NIL for wrestling will ever grow large large enough to sustainably support the financial equivalent of the full roster-size remains to be seen. Hopefully it's somebody's goal. I would love to see that happen.

It will be on a wrestler by wrestler basis. He's not going to have a roster of 30 kids who are commanding full rides out of HS as is.

 

[dicemen99]

Another crazy thought, maybe some of these kids realize wrestling doesn't last forever and are at peace with not being a starter in March because they are firmly entrenched in the team, school and community in other ways besides being a wrestler? Would love to find the post but someone on this board previously posted they met Beau Bartlett's dad and he talked about how Cael introduced Beau to people in his network in business when Beau expressed interest in it. This was I believe when Beau was an undersized and struggling 149 but his dad said Beau wouldn't have left PSU even if he never started again.

With NIL and 30 scholarships coming, it's safe to say Cael will take care of his wrestlers financially, in the very least, none of them should have large tuition bills they pay themselves anymore when they're grinding for the team year round even if they aren't the starter.

I've spoken with several former PSU wrestlers who never started a postseason for Cael, all of them know Cael is always a phone call away if they need his help for anything.

This, this, this.

So many posters across the interwebs that look at things like they are 16 years old. Not every wrestler is the same, but I significant percentage of the high achievers are not only athletic but smart. Big-picture type of thinkers. We have an inordinate amount of those types at PSU - hint, hint, that may be a part of the secret sauce, Cael certainly fosters that environment.

Bearclaw may be the best example I can give of this. A guy who is striving to be the best he can be in everything, not just wrestling. Walks on in the best room in the country. Gets better each year to the point where four years in (last year) he is beating AA candidates, hanging with the very top guys, and competing at SR-level freestyle events. Is part of a few team championships along the way. Earns a biomedical engineering degree from a top university. Is named academic all-Big 10 and Big 10 distinguished scholar one year. Is able to transfer after graduating back to his home state school prepared to place high on the podium.

That is a career that probably over half the top 20 recruits this year will be unable to match. I saw on the bacon board the other day, Ironturd referred to Bearclaw as "wasting his career." And others sharing the sentiment. It is so friggin funny, you can't help but spit your coffee out. The kind of person that thinks that way, lolololol. Geez, what the f' did he think he missed - having a 60 win career at somewhere like UNI? Just fricking laughable.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

30 kids who are commanding full rides

Who said anything about student athletes command full rides?

NIL sponsors could create endowments for the equivalent of any number of full rides. It's only limited by the fund raising and roster limits. Would it happen all at once, no. Could it eventually happen, sure if Clay Steadman is working on it.

Ira Lubert and others know how to make the money work, so it is unlikely to run out. Fund raising can supplements direct individual targeted contributions.

What's wrong with having the goal of NIL for 30 full rides as a baseline, including the #30 room guy? The superstar is sure to get more than that.

 

[McScoreley]

Who said anything about student athletes command full rides?

NIL sponsors could create endowments for the equivalent of any number of full rides. It's only limited by the fund raising and roster limits. Would it happen all at once, no. Could it eventually happen, sure if Clay Steadman is working on it.

Ira Lubert and others know how to make the money work, so it is unlikely to run out. Fund raising can supplements direct individual targeted contributions.

What's wrong with having the goal of NIL for 30 full rides as a baseline, including the #30 room guy? The superstar is sure to get more than that.

It's not the best term because I enjoy the NBA and the term they always use when someone has earned a contract is "they command it"

But basically what I'm saying it's rare kids get a full ride out of HS anymore, it's reserved for the absolutely top of the top kids as is and we aren't going to have 30 kids that level on the roster because there aren't even 30 kids that level nationally to go around probably.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

It's not the best term because I enjoy the NBA and the term they always use when someone has earned a contract is "they command it"

But basically what I'm saying it's rare kids get a full ride out of HS anymore, it's reserved for the absolutely top of the top kids as is and we aren't going to have 30 kids that level on the roster because there aren't even 30 kids that level nationally to go around probably.

But guess what? With NIL, scholarship % become largely moot. I am just aspiring to set a new PSU floor. I don’t care about the old ways. Today it's a whole new paradigm. Title IX doesn't apply to NIL $. It's championship opportunities via scholarships that are proportional to the student body population, gender wise.

First thing to do is get rid of the 9.9 scholarship mentality. Second thing, become self-reliant on targeted NIL that the Athletic Department doesn't control. Then grow fully funded roster size.

 

[El-Jefe]

It will be on a wrestler by wrestler basis. He's not going to have a roster of 30 kids who are commanding full rides out of HS as is.

Umm ... recognizing 98lber's post about PSU likely never having 30 rides to give, and the Title IX implications...

But if we did have 30 rides and the roster were capped at 30, then what is the point of "doesn't command a full ride"?

 

[GogglesPaizano]

30 is never going to happen at PSU, but I think we will all agree that there are far more than 10 kids on the current roster that warrant a full ride. NIL helps, but has many warts and unintended consequences as well.

I would be happy with 15-20, where up to 15 full rides, and the rest maybe 20%+

Maybe what we need is women's football and the 85 schools that would go asking with it.

Then there is that pesky requirement to fund this, dang it!

 

[Sleepylion]

But guess what? With NIL, scholarship % become largely moot. I am just aspiring to set a new PSU floor. I don’t care about the old ways. Today it's a whole new paradigm. Title IX doesn't apply to NIL $. It's championship opportunities via scholarships that are proportional to the student body population, gender wise.

First thing to do is get rid of the 9.9 scholarship mentality. Second thing, become self-reliant on targeted NIL that the Athletic Department doesn't control. Then grow fully funded roster size.

If the university continues to commit to 9.9 scholarship and the NIL collective commitments to 20.1 scholarships that is the 30. Is that what you are saying? I think this is the way it will work. Or whatever the combination of PSU and NIL scholarships to get 30.

IMO additionally, there will be some that get more than a scholarship. The NIL collective could still make sure the tuition is taken care of for everyone and some can get more than that.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

If the university continues to commit to 9.9 scholarship and the NIL collective commitments to 20.1 scholarships that is the 30. Is that what you are saying? I think this is the way it will work. Or whatever the combination of PSU and NIL scholarships to get 30.

IMO additionally, there will be some that get more than a scholarship. The NIL collective could still make sure the tuition is taken care of for everyone and some can get more than that.

I am saying NIL $ for male olympic sports could make all university supplied scholarships a thing of the past.

I am saying no university is going to fund 30 scholarships for a male olympic sport, because they will likely run afoul of Title IX. (Can't afford the cost increase when equivalent female scholarships are added).

I have heard Cael talk about PSU wrestling becoming a self-sufficient entity. So don't even worry about the Athletic Department funding 9.9 scholarships. Instead, put Clay Steadman to work to have full tuition endowments for 30 roster positions. In my opinion, that would be an ideal end state.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

The NIL collective could still make sure the tuition is taken care of for everyone and some can get more than that.

The collective can set the baseline full 30 tuition covered. The collective can also facilitate deals for high demand athletes. In the recent settlement, the NCAA universities are seeking that same privilege. Additionally, high demand athletes will likely be approached directly. When this occurs they remain free to make deals on their own.

 

[NittanyLion84]

Carter Starocci vs Parker Keckeisen 184 LBS, Full Match

 

[NittanyLion84]

Tyler Kasak vs Peyten Kellar 157 LBS, Full Match

 

[NittanyLion84]

Shayne Van Ness vs Ty Watters 149 LBS, Full Match

 

[Random4598375]

Shayne Van Ness vs Ty Watters 149 LBS, Full Match

View embedded media

A healthy Van Ness is a stone cold assassin. He was one of the guys I was really looking forward to watching last year and obviously that never happened, but he looks even better this year.

 

[McScoreley]

A healthy Van Ness is a stone cold assassin. He was one of the guys I was really looking forward to watching last year and obviously that never happened, but he looks even better this year.

I think it was JD Rader who said on the show after All Star that Van Ness looked like an old wrestling coach, they're not in their physical prime but they are masters at catching you messing up from years of experience (catching Watters wrist in a scramble, sweeping his foot, whipping him to his back from bottom)

The only difference? Van Ness is in his physical prime.

 

[SlipperyPete12]

Full replay:


Bartlett vs. Mendez - 1:23:30
Van Ness vs. Waters - 1:33:50
Kasak vs. Kellar - 1:42:30
Haines vs. DeVos - 2:01:00
Starocci vs. Keckeisen - 2:12:30