Arbitrary stalling calls @ B1G's

[CJFisJoePaII]

They call Top Stalling when the top wrestler has bottom wrestler broken down (and they have earlier gotten NF exposure points).... I saw stalling called on a wrestler in Neutral who was pressuring and the other wrestler backed OB (apparently the claim was the pressuring wrestler pushed the other wrestler OB - how on earth does that work, when the other wrestler is required to attempt to stay in-bounds... and many wrestler's use this obligation to get the other wrestler out of position and set up a takedown as the opposing wrestler pressures back.).

I saw stalling called on top wrestler when they didn't immediately return bottom wrestler to mat after standing up.... other times, you see top wrestlers accumulate the majority of their riding time wrestling with opponent while standing by eventually dragging them out... only to do it again off the restart... rinse & repeat.

BTW, how on earth does the 5-Count not start when a top wrestler's only point of control on a bottom wrestler is below the waist after the bottom wrestler has stood (I have seen numerous occasions where there is no count and the only point of contact the top wrestler has is the leg and the bottom wrestler is hoping around on one leg.... and the "riding clock" just keeps on ticking.). Makes zero sense - if "riding below the waist" draws a 5-count when wrestlers are on mat, it absolutely should draw a 5-count when they're standing and leg is the only point of control top wrestler has.

A myriad of other inconsistencies including calls that had major impacts on matches such as sending a match to SV with only 3 seconds remaining......

 

[Callthestall]

As I've noted, my screen name reflects my feeling on stalling. I laugh when a ref nails a stall call on bottom man who is getting hammered but doesn't have the guts to call it on top guy or a guy working the circle. It ruins the sport .
I watched some of the ACC last night. Those refs were more aggressive on calling neutral stalling. In the Heavyweight match Pitzer was winning 1-0 with 10 seconds left in the middle of mat and he got called for not engaging. Tied the match. He won in SV.
I think a majority of Big Ten refs are intimidated by the coaches in making those calls.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

As I've noted, my screen name reflects my feeling on stalling. I laugh when a ref nails a stall call on bottom man who is getting hammered but doesn't have the guts to call it on top guy or a guy working the circle. It ruins the sport .
I watched some of the ACC last night. Those refs were more aggressive on calling neutral stalling. In the Heavyweight match Pitzer was winning 1-0 with 10 seconds left in the middle of mat and he got called for not engaging. Tied the match. He won in SV.
I think a majority of Big Ten refs are intimidated by the coaches in making those calls.

I don't understand how the Conference Frontoffice can watch the inconsistent and arbitrary way stalling is called (or the rewarding of points for "Riding Time" on completely bullshit rides that never drew any stalling calls) and not do something about it.

Literally, every Official calls stalling however they have decided what the rule is, or isn't. It results in stalling calls being completely arbitrary from match to match with zero consistency as to what constitutes "stalling" in Neutral, Bottom or Top.

Steveson was rewarded with almost 2 minutes of riding time against Kerk and he never remotely attempted to turn Kerk or score from top. He literally did nothing but lay on Kerk for the majority of his "riding time" - not that it had any impact on the match, but how is that not top-stalling?

 

[jmadden1998]

The problem is each ref decides what is stalling and what is not. Angel just irrationally calls stalling when he feels like it. Others never call stalling. Also, most will call stalling early but unless a guy literally runs off the mat, they won't call stalling late to decide the outcome. The inconsistency of the call is what is maddening. Until they have robots officiating the matches you will never get consistency.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

The problem is each ref decides what is stalling and what is not. Angel just irrationally calls stalling when he feels like it. Others never call stalling. Also, most will call stalling early but unless a guy literally runs off the mat, they won't call stalling late to decide the outcome. The inconsistency of the call is what is maddening. Until they have robots officiating the matches you will never get consistency.

The problem is that the inconsistency of calls is already potentially determining matches given the amount of Neutral Stalling that takes place and the number of low scoring 1 point wins (keep in mind that we're still rewarding bullshit rides that have nothing to do with "controlling" the bottom wrestler or ever coming remotely close to turning the bottom wrestler or coming close to scoring from top other than the bullshit riding-time point awarded.... Also consider that completely bullshit rides that have zero to do with scoring points are used as the sole determinant of matches in TB periods.).

The NCAA's OT rules are beyond stupid. They encourage Neutral Stalling and bullshit riding (i.e., accumulate "riding time" by hanging on for dear life.... running the bottom wrestler OB.... dragging bottom wrestler OB.... rinse & repeat for 30 seconds.).

The arbitrary nature and inconsistent way it is being called is already determining matches, so not precisely sure how you think trying to make it more consistent would be a bad thing (i.e., there are already wrestlers that game the rule by wrestling the edge in Neutral in a purely defensive fashion.... look to shorten the match.... and win a 1-point match or via the absurd NCAA OT rules in TBs.....).

 

[District four]

As I've noted, my screen name reflects my feeling on stalling. I laugh when a ref nails a stall call on bottom man who is getting hammered but doesn't have the guts to call it on top guy or a guy working the circle. It ruins the sport .
I watched some of the ACC last night. Those refs were more aggressive on calling neutral stalling. In the Heavyweight match Pitzer was winning 1-0 with 10 seconds left in the middle of mat and he got called for not engaging. Tied the match. He won in SV.
I think a majority of Big Ten refs are intimidated by the coaches in making those calls.

There should be a rule that coaches are not allowed to mention stalling to refs it's ****ing stupid. I kept hearing eggum yelling it during the gable Kerk match.

 

[tullfan68]

lol refs rarely call stall the first 2 periods which is wrong also when a guy locks up pushes the other guy out and not even trying for a TD well he is the one stalling

 

[tullfan68]

saw one match where the rider had the bottom guys leg up for like 20 seconds before the ref started the 5 count!!WTF

 

[a_mshaffer]

I've stated it before - horrible consistency with the calls and almost all calls are against whomever is winning - regardless of what had occurred earlier.
- stalling on bottom is appropriate if you're simply holding on to a hand or wrist to prevent the top man from making moves
- stalling on top when you're just 'holding-on', i.e. claw ride, double thigh pry
- Backing to the OB line is stalling, especially when not tying up and being pushed or muscled out (this is what happens against Star, Luke, and Shane. To my point if they were losing in the 3rd period and the opponents went to the edge, the call would be made.
- Fleeing the mat rarely called when bottom or neutral guy crawls out to get a restart of out of a hold. See this a lot when one has to pull their opponent onto the mat.
If asked, I'm sure each ref could explain their reasoning... but is somewhat short sighted in many cases

 

[kadeeu]

What do you guys think about the second ref being given the responsibility to call stalling? I think the main ref is a little overwhelmed with all he has to do, and stalling can be an afterthought. While the send refs biggest job it seems is to stay out of the way and consult on reviews.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

I've stated it before - horrible consistency with the calls and almost all calls are against whomever is winning - regardless of what had occurred earlier.
- stalling on bottom is appropriate if you're simply holding on to a hand or wrist to prevent the top man from making moves
- stalling on top when you're just 'holding-on', i.e. claw ride, double thigh pry
- Backing to the OB line is stalling, especially when not tying up and being pushed or muscled out (this is what happens against Star, Luke, and Shane. To my point if they were losing in the 3rd period and the opponents went to the edge, the call would be made.
- Fleeing the mat rarely called when bottom or neutral guy crawls out to get a restart of out of a hold. See this a lot when one has to pull their opponent onto the mat.
If asked, I'm sure each ref could explain their reasoning... but is somewhat short sighted in many cases

Yeah, no doubt - Fleeing the mat should be a 1-point penalty (say you're attempting to escape a hold but you have to voluntarily take yourself completely OB to do so - should be a 1-Point penalty for "Fleeing the mat". Same penalty should apply for backing off the mat with both feet and making no attempt to re-enter the circle with at least one foot beyond "reaction time".). The person backing up, whether being pressured or not, has the responsibility to keep themselves inside the outer-circle regardless if they have to put themselves in a vulnerable position to do so.

 

[cpn1sgm]

Angel almost pulled the RBY stall calls on LL in the championship match which would have sent his match to SV.

 

[Shot of Espresso]

I don't understand how the Conference Frontoffice can watch the inconsistent and arbitrary way stalling is called (or the rewarding of points for "Riding Time" on completely bullshit rides that never drew any stalling calls) and not do something about it.

Literally, every Official calls stalling however they have decided what the rule is, or isn't. It results in stalling calls being completely arbitrary from match to match with zero consistency as to what constitutes "stalling" in Neutral, Bottom or Top.

Steveson was rewarded with almost 2 minutes of riding time against Kerk and he never remotely attempted to turn Kerk or score from top. He literally did nothing but lay on Kerk for the majority of his "riding time" - not that it had any impact on the match, but how is that not top-stalling?

That’s the issue for me, the inconsistency drives me nuts.. If they called it the same all the time and for everyone then I really don’t care what exact rules they have, just call it the same so we all know what’s coming and why..

 

[WexfordWarrior]

Angel almost pulled the RBY stall calls on LL in the championship match which would have sent his match to SV.

 

[PSU Mike]

Angel almost pulled the RBY stall calls on LL in the championship match which would have sent his match to SV.

Not true. Luke’s next warning would have been 2 points and he’d have lost. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t deeply concerned in real time.

 

[Hotshoe]

That’s the issue for me, the inconsistency drives me nuts.. If they called it the same all the time and for everyone then I really don’t care what exact rules they have, just call it the same so we all know what’s coming and why..

That's my only issue. Be consistent, or stop calling stalling altogether. Angel was abysmal this weekend.

 

[Cowbell Man]

Not true. Luke’s next warning would have been 2 points and he’d have lost. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t deeply concerned in real time.

You were deeply concerned because LL was, in fact, stalling.

There's a lot to unpack in this thread. More than I'm willing to explain: Leg in air, 5 seconds on leg, parallel rides, heads on mat bellied out....etc, not engaging, etc.

I will say there is one thing that nearly everyone gets wrong, including announcers. Stalling at the circle is a decision of wrestling action, wrestler not returning to inside boundary, or wrestler pushing out. It is a call that is completely unrelated to other stalling events like lack of action, yet fans and announcers somehow connect them such as "how could he just be called for stalling when he was just shooting?" Doesn't matter.

If you are OOB and not in contact with your opponent, you are not in "wrestling action" Pretty easy call and missed by many.

I'm still scratching my head over the Shawver walk out of bounds with Davis on his shoulders that was not called stalling. It absolutely is. Or....fleeing the mat with a point, which is more likely the call.

 

[Nitlion1986]

That's my only issue. Be consistent, or stop calling stalling altogether. Angel was abysmal this weekend.

This weekend?