Good point because the Freeh report media circus buried the news of the FIFA verdict (based on Freehs investigation) being overturned.
As the Paterno, Spanier and Alum Trustees cases grind forward,
- Thread starter demlion
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Good point because the Freeh report media circus buried the news of the FIFA verdict (based on Freehs investigation) being overturned.
That's a good find. We all knew Corbett and Spanier frankly hated each other and both took every chance to poke the other side.
However, if Ray now has Corbett saying he told Freeh to look at the PSU administration because they "don't communicate with the BoT" it's fair to assume he told his Attorney General to do the same.
(In all fairness Spanier probably communicated with the BoT the same as they do now- only with a select few that are in charge. The rest of the BoT are ignored. The more things change the more they stay the same).
LOL. You are making a big and, probably, incorrect assumption.
Namely, that they did their "investigation" BEFORE they wrote up their conclusions.
I expect the actual order was reversed
Thanks for clearing up who Amy Chisholm was. That explains a lot.
Totally get that Freeh was trolling for NCAA work with the conflict of interest that entailed (and suspicious events of (allegedly) going from an initial report that didn't blame CSS/ Paterno to one that did).
It just also struck me as odd that in 10- 12 weeks (that included the 3 big holidays with people out of town etc) they went from being hired to having it pretty much wrapped up- (expecting the report release in the Spring) and sort of bragging about that to the NCAA while trolling to get the job of investigator for the NCAA.
I will speculate... the specific date at least was chosen because it was the day after the All Star game... the slowest sports news date of the year. Absolutely guaranteed maximum media exposure. It was obviously rushed - half the exhibits were never completed or included. No coincidence.
LOL. You are making a big and, probably, incorrect assumption.
Namely, that they did their "investigation" BEFORE they wrote up their conclusions.
I expect the actual order was reversed
I know......but bear with me. I don't excuse CSS blindly and think they have serious questions to answer- but unlike the media I want to hear their answers before I judge anything completely.
That said, while I have the same emotional reactions to a lot of this that everyone here does, I need to judge less on emotion and more on fact. So, while I get it that people here go from 'A' to 'B' to 'C' easily because they know the people involved and can jump from A to B- I want to see some of the gaps between A to B to be filled in to prevent depending too much on assumption (and frankly if there's any chance of convincing the outside world the gaps need filled too).
So while we all here know that Corbett and Spanier hated each other and we assume Corbett was pushing/ steering things to settle old scores- to show that Corbett told Freeh to go after the PSU administration is big in that it starts to fill gaps that now become fact instead of assumption.
So while many suspect the report order was reversed as you say
- we need some of those gaps filled in to show that definitively.
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Can't help but wonder if someone from Freeh's team is now helping the Paterno's.
I wonder that too. There were rumors some of Freeh's people flipped to the Paterno side about 1.5 years or so ago. Don't know if that's accurate or not.
It is likely things were removed from the Schultz file and there were multiple copies of it that went different places.
Belcher testified that she turned the file over in April, but I have to reconsider her truthfulness given that she met with Freeh and Duane Morris in January, says she didn't turn the file over, but then was told she'd be receiving a subpoena. The subpoena was to appear before the grand jury in April. Were there no grand jury sessions in Feb or March 2012?
Sassano testified he got his copy of the Schultz file from Duane Morris attorneys. Sassano didn't say when he got it.
Eileen Morgan wrote a fantastic piece pretty much proving the OAG had it in January 2011. The evidence is pretty clear on that, so PSU did what it wanted with the file before they put it back in the drawer.
Also, I believe things that weren't originally in the Schultz file found there way inside it. Remember, PSU was subscribing to the flip strategy, so they may have been thinking they would leverage just one guy -- Schultz. Obviously, that would be evidence tampering.
Thank you. I think we have a winner.
Let me just say that I had no idea when I started this thread at 7:54 am that it would go here. This has become an expression of outrage like we've not seen in a while.
What does it mean if someone at PSU edited that Report to raise harsh criticisms of JVP and the admins for the first time? In my terms it means we have the answer to the question, whether it was incompetence or something far worse. One person who has corresponded with me today about this said "if this is true someone should F#cking hang." Figuratively at least I certainly agree.
It has been great to see rmb, lubrano, Jimmy W, ChiTown, Lundy, wensilver, Aoshiro and other longtime regulars lean in and add a lick or two of their own to this little jam session. The truth is getting closer. You can feel it like you can feel a rainstorm coming behind a big wind. We have not heard the far off thunder yet, but we know it is coming to wash the walls away these bastards have built around the simple truth. It will not stay hidden.
Sometimes you can smell a blizzard coming, too. And I bet even a hurricane or a tornado gives off a presentiment of itself, a feeling of tumult and danger that gives you that little wriggle of fear and excitement. Things are gonna change. It smells like TRUTH today.
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I too have wondered if Baldwin/OG BOT added stuff to/altered Schultz's file in early 2011. I certainly wouldn't put anything past these scumbags. Schultz would have no idea if they did since he retired in 2009 I believe and Baldwin started snooping around shortly after that. I doubt he would have remembered exactly what was in that file from ten years prior once he did get a copy/the original from his desk when he came out of retirement. They knew the OAG was going to subpoena that information and it'd be a great way to sandbag Schultz.
Unfortunately for the OAG no one flipped and it screwed their plan.
I also want to give a tip of the cap to @ChiTownLion and @JmmyW they have been amazing at sharing info and providing links, etc. over the past few years... You guys are killin it!
It is clear that it was not just the NCAA who thought they were dealing with road kill. JVP, TC, GS and GS were treated as such. It appears Schultz may have been set up to do jail time. The question is no longer should there be a hanging.......it his how many should be lynched.
Yumpin Yiminy, demlion.
This was NOT incompetence. Never was. I said it from the get go. This was a set-up all the way that was orchestrated by Corbett and Surma.
However, with what Kane has uncovered about judges and prosecutors and the lengths that they have gone to silence her tells me that porngate is, literally and figuratively, just foreplay.
Well I never thought it was incompetence either, but it was at least that on the evidence we KNEW to be true from just the press reports. We are still a ways away from proving exactly which sinister jackass did which sinister thing at which moment in time. Today means we are closer, if only a little bit, and I am reassured that so many people are still itching to have this fight for the truth.
My advice to Baldwin: stay out of the U.S. if you like fresh air.
I think it is reasonable to assume that The Paterno Family had the answers of what happened and who did it, a long time ago. The litigation is about getting to discovery so that depositions and documents will provide irrefutable evidence of what happened.
Great discussion, guys. We all thank you. Interesting that none of the sycophants like CR and CDW have shown up for rebuttal. Speaks volumes.
At least now we can see why the old power structure has been trying to keep everything hidden. Covey probably started to see what was going on, I imagine.
It's amazing that they thought they could pull this off and get away with it.
It's amazing that they thought they could pull this off and get away with it.
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Note that the NCAA didn't really go the Lack of Institution Control route. They MADE UP a new term, "Lack of Institutional Integrity" in order to make it an "unprecedented" case.
After Emmert was criticized, by LouAnna Simon no less, he said "you can't run the experiment again."
When the case against the PSU 3 goes up in smoke, and new charges are filed, Emmert and the rest of the people involved in this mess are going to look really, really bad.
They really underestimated the alumni, that's for sure.
Erickson: Dishonest "Front Man" for Destruction
In Erickson's first message to the Penn State community -- the five point promise -- he stated that the University needed to "reorient our culture" and that he would reinforce the "moral imperative to do the right thing the first time and every time."
Erickson deceived the public about Penn
State and its dealings with the NCAA
In other words, his first message was that the previous administration and Paterno had created a culture that was immoral and didn't do the right thing. He, like Frazier and others on the Board, was admitting failures occurred at Penn State without a full accounting of the facts.
However, an even more telling point of his promise was his pledge "to take immediate action based on their (the SITF's) findings."
The playbook was still in play.
On December 7th, when Erickson sat for his first extensive interview after being named President, he spoke of transforming the University's image as a football school to one of a "world class research institution."
Then in another preview of things to come, Erickson stated there should be "urgency for discussions about the role of big-time athletics and where they interact with higher education." Erickson had begun the trashing of Paterno's "grand experiment" and the "success with honor" legacy that so many Penn Staters valued.
Erickson was painting a false picture of Penn State athletics to the nation -- just one of many things he was dishonest about during his tenure.
As this Examiner article later pointed out, "You do not have to spend long digging through the archives to realize that any assertion that Penn State lacked a focus on the academic side of football is as feeble attempt to support any argument for punishing the school and football program"
Mark Emmert also got into the act after Erickson's interview, stating:
"There's no question the allegations at Penn State should cause us all to look at the role of an athletic program and determine whether or not we have everything in proper balance"
Those themes would be prominent in the NCAA Consent Decree, but there was more to the story.
The NCAA had reached out to PSU and the Freeh group in late November and was granted permission to participate in the investigation. The Big Ten was added later. As Erickson and Emmert were making their statements to the press, officials from the NCAA and the Big Ten were meeting with the Freeh group at the Nittany Lion Inn.
http://notpsu.blogspot.com/2015/03/bad-faith-addendum-3-underestimating.html
That makes sense because they'd have needed a Plan B exonerating PSU in case Sandusky wasn't convicted on the PSU related charges of V2, V6 & V8. After the verdict the NCAA started putting heavy pressure on PSU & Freeh to complete the report.
I'm usually pretty curious about what ISN'T there when it comes to a narrative, as sometimes that is more revealing
consider this: IF you believe that C/S/S/P conspired to cover up the molestation of a small boy by Sandusky, one would think - as freely as they are discussing their options - they would have actually used the term molestation in their emails. or sexual abuse. or someone would have said, "good Lord fellas, this is horrible. we're gonna burn at the stake if anyone ever finds out!"
instead you have dimwits like CR66 and CDW and michnittwitidiot parsing every "sexual nature" in GJ testimony and completely misrepresenting the meaning of the words Spanier used in his infamous emails.
I've said before, I was shocked to read the summary of the Freeh report. even more shocked when I read the report and scratched my head and wondered where all the juicy stuff from the summary was. like watching an awesome trailer for a movie, then all the cool scenes from the trailer are not even in the movie. and the movie is something entirely different as advertised.
LIKEWISE, pour over the emails from the NCAA that were released during the Corman trial.
Find me ONE that says, "those sunsabitches at Penn State covered up the sexual abuse of a small boy and they need to FRY FOR WHAT THEY DID!!!"
instead, there is a lot of polite talk about how they can manipulate the situation for a PR edge for the NCAA. or how they will twist their rules so they can throw some stink at PSU. or how they are going to LIE to a member of their organization and hope they fall for it.
in fact, I will make this easy and take it a step farther.
show me one NCAA email that even indicates they actually BELIEVE anyone at Penn State did something wrong wrt Sandusky.
so then you have to wonder WHY. WHY did the NCAA seem to be, behind the scenes and out of the light of cameras and press, so very unconcerned about the welfare of a child that had allegedly been molested by Sandusky, or the moral depravity of the coaches and admins who allegedly covered it up??
I noticed that Stef Goodsell also supported OSU in their 'crisis' of players selling memorabilia --- the ultimate investigation that pinned the entire event on Jim Tressel. They threw him under the bus, as the University +/- got a pass.
It is a challenge especially given these reporters function at a second grade comprehension and writing level.
Yet, I am not sure Dems reasoning that they are not lawyers explains this away with validity. Case in point 'if it doesn't fit...you must acquit'. Any rational human would have wet one glove of a pair of their leather gloves and showed the jury a day later once dry...it did not fit them. Oh....but as we know....a DA ... Assistant DA ....lawyers all....did not.
Keep smiling.....
Agreed! I was waiting for the prosecution to bring in a professional golfer and ask him to put on the glove that he used during a tournament round the day prior. As you know, it wouldn't have fit (and you must acquit
).
Finally, understand that we had no interest in demanding that the NCAA conduct its own investigation for fear that heretofore unknown prior violations might be unearthed during such an investigation.
Anthony, are you saying that there actually were NCAA violations to be found? I know that is what Erickson (or someone) said at the time, but I thought that was more smokescreen for "move on". Thanks.
I don't mean to speak for Anthony but I think he was referring to the "logic" at the time. Remember we couldn't defend Penn St or Paterno because 'you don't know what else may come out soon'. That BS was spread by the usual suspects here and others at the time. That extended to 'it was best to follow Freeh because if the NCAA investigated you don't know what possible other infractions they might find'. It was the logic at the time (despite the fact the NCAA couldn't find their own backside with a GPS). It was complete nonsense but it was the excuse by the old guard to use Freeh and not demand the NCAA do its own investigation.
It was a smokescreen Erickson used to fool Steve Dunham, who'd only been on the job a few days. He also had Gene Marsh stoking those fears because Marsh was used to representing programs like Alabama and Ohio State.
Thanks Ray and psu00. I thought that was the case. Considering Joe would self-report when a player ate a bagel with cream cheese on it instead of plain as allowed per NCAA rules, I can not imagine anything to be found.
According to Bagwell's RTK filings, the Feds closed their investigation of PSU. However, I was told back in 2013 that they were standing it down out of deference to the PA OAG.
To the best of my knowledge, the Feds haven't stopped The Second Mile investigation. There is not a statute of limitations on tax evasion and RICO crimes.
Yes^^^ I think the Paternos already know when and how this went down
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Forgive me if this has been stated somewhere else but has Schultz actually seen his file to verify what is in there? I didn't remember if this was another Freeh move where you are forced to answer questions and not see what was produced.
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