I know where it is. I'm not interested in starting an argument. Just pointing out a recurring theme on their board. Go on their board and read the Berge thread and see the comments about Cael having another wrestler to mold etc.
Berge
- Thread starter edquinn06
- Start date
I know where it is. I'm not interested in starting an argument. Just pointing out a recurring theme on their board. Go on their board and read the Berge thread and see the comments about Cael having another wrestler to mold etc.
Yes.
Onto that, I will add that D Taylor was a #1 overall recruit and Mike Evans was a #3 overall recruit.
I don't doubt the accuracy of your post, but rather the motives of those you heard saying Cael couldn't win. People were angry he left, and many struck out with negative comments about him anyway they could. The Iowa fan base fed this monster and delighted in Clone misery to an extent, but lost some humor when the PSU monster Cael spoke of started to emerge. I haven't seen any revisionist history around the program at all. I have seen several people who loved Cael turn negative on him only to soften with time. People tend to forgive but never forget. I said it before- Envy is a strong demon.
Funny you say that. I ordered my first PSU wrestling shirt about a week ago. I figure might as well pick a winner.
It's interesting you jumped in. I know you're a great poster and well respected. You also like to use tongue in cheek references regarding the molding of new recruits for Cael. Is it not fair to apply the same standards to Marinelli and Kemmerer especially when they can mean the difference in the national championship race? If you want to put that optic on Cael that's fine as long as you are willing to do with your own highly rated guys IMO. If Cael wins because of Nolf, Zain and Nickal etc are thoroughbreds doesn't that mean Tom Brands should also win now that you have them on a highly veteran team? IMO Iowa fans have put themselves in a quandary if they don't win. All you hear is Cael the great recruiter. Well, you have 2 wrestlers at the same level as Zain etc. Will they have the same results is a very fair question IMO.
I don't see Penn State's incentive. A mediocre program from a near dead conference? If Iowa State disappeared tomorrow who would care? At all? Wrestling historians? Not a big market. There are plenty of other good uses for a Penn State trip other than beating the ISU dead horse.
Last edited:
As I have stated on my board...recruiting is part of being a coach. Cael does it better than anybody in the country...so I don't what the quandary is or if you guys still think it is a backhanded compliment. A few of you guys are even looking at your backups vs our starters next year thinking you would get the win. But just for sh*t's and grins and to get my mind off of election stuff...here we go at the big picture with top 100 ranking:
125: #3 Suriano vs #16 Gilman
133: #12 Cortez vs #23 Clark
141: #3 Guilbon vs #67 Turk/CartonNR
149: #3 Retherford vs #27Sorensen
157: #4 Nolf vs #8 Kemerer (Cael got a #5 in Cenzo...as one of you guys said, Kemerer was second fiddle)
165: #5 Vincenzo vs #3 Marinelli (if he goes)
174: #43 Rasheed vs #41 Meyer
184: #4 Nickal vs #20 Brooks
197: #32 McCutcheon vs #86 Wilcke
HWY: #5 Nevills vs #14 Stoll
Yes...I'd say Cael is a damn good recruiter. If he wanted to, he could flip 174 into a #1 tomorrow. Not all top ten's turn out to be world beaters...see Guilbon, the Altons, Evans etc but it's nice to have 7 or maybe 8 of 10 to see with Cortez being right on the bubble. All of that said, it's wrestling talk. Who walks away in March with the trophy is all that matters....recruitiing, development, dodgeball be damned.
The thread title is Berge.
Pot calling the kettle black I would say.
What does the above have to do with whether Kemerer or Marinelli perform this year? Also. how dare you take the name of dodgeball in vain...
Just so I get this straight. You are saying that a true freshmen, Suriano, has an advantage over a senior, Gilman?
I don't see Penn State's incentive. A mediocre program from a near dead conference? If Iowa State disappeared tomorrow who would care? At all? Wrestling historians? Not a big market. There are plenty of other good uses for a Penn State trip other than beating the ISU dead horse.
People who would certainly care. 1. Dan Gable 2. Cael Sanderson 3. Jake Varner........
People who wouldn't care. 1. Fine Material
I guess the nays have it- you win.
No...just merely pointing out what their top 100 ranking was when they graduated. Goes to the larger point of what PSU starts out with.
You are talking about recruiting, correct? Yes, I expect big things from Kemerer and Marinelli...Kemerer especially...at least this year. Wish he was wrestling his natural weight at 149 because I think he would be top 2. At 57, he is top 6. I think Marinelli could use the redshirt to put on weight.
So what happens if Marinelli and Meyer, let alone if upperclassmen do not outperform PSU?
Initially, I was talking about the performance of top recruits in regards to just elite talent and or development. IMO Cael doesn't get the respect for the development of the top recruits especially from your fanbase. I said it will be interesting now that Iowa has two wrestlers with similar p4p accolades to see how they perform. I noted our latest 3 heathy recruits of similar p4p. Zain, Nickal and Nolf and their results. Suriano and Joseph will go this year. We will see how it shakes out but Cael develops just as well as he recruits IMO. We shall see what happens at Iowa with your two young guns. One literally and one figuratively.
Everyone in wrestling should care if ISU goes away. The legacy that JPW3 pointed out plus they have won 8 national titles. Also, if ISU goes away no program is safe. I think the architect of the PSU wrestling program would care.I don't see Penn State's incentive. A mediocre program from a near dead conference? If Iowa State disappeared tomorrow who would care? At all? Wrestling historians? Not a big market. There are plenty of other good uses for a Penn State trip other than beating the ISU dead horse.
Many AD's would say who cares if wrestling is gone, there are so few fans(small market) it does not matter.
Quit being a jerk!!!
Im no Cyclone fan but it would be a sad day if Cyclone wrestling disappeared. They have fallen hard as of late but they have a great history. Maybe FineMaterial could do some wrestling research farther back than 6 years.
You are a wrestling fan first and a Hawkeye fan second. I commend you for this. I am worried about all wrestling programs. We need more programs. We just got our buts kicked in South Dakota, but I love the rise of that program. We are lucky in Iowa to have all of our programs, and I think most Iowa fans want to crush ISU, but they still want ISU around to kick.
Can we table this conversation at least till PD3 graduates, too much entertainment value I lose without PD2 posting
don't forget to mention the contributions that would be lost by not having PD2 around to keep the conversations civilzed
I couldn't agree more. I wonder what Cael would have to say to FM on the subject...
Probably: "Do you have a plan?"
http://www.flowrestling.org/article/41792-the-top-5-scariest-things-in-wrestling
Actually I was the only guy who posted the mock dual with PSU backups vs. Iowa starters next year. And I'm sure you noticed my inclusion of Fix (not getting him here IMO) and playing around with the weights a bit (Cutch as backup 184, Berge at 157). Even the Chief has been getting a little salty when he takes exception to a little bustin'.
Come on now.. The season has started. Extra salt is required! You know that
I have to admit that knowing the plan was Sorenson at 49 and Kem at 57 I would have thought they would have spent the entire offseason with Kem locked in the weight room and occasionally throwing a few steaks in for him to munch on.
I am not buying Kemerer is going to be anywhere near undersized at 57, and I doubt he ever competes at 49.
Warner to Iowa, per FLO.
Congrats to Hawk fans.
EDIT: (....Although an HR meltdown would have been entertaining)
Congrats to Hawk fans.
EDIT: (....Although an HR meltdown would have been entertaining)
Yeah, but it's kinda like the tree in the woods making a sound thingy. If the Purdue wrestling community melts down and nobody notices, did they really melt?
