Berge

[PSUAllTheWay]

Interesting to note that since Lee and Teasdale committed, Iowa has lost Meja, Renteria, Bradley, Troy(rumored), Paddock and now missed on Berge. That's 6 quality guys that were projected to be on their roster. They are going to have some depth issues in the future, especially at the upper weights if they miss on Warner as is being rumored.

My sense is Cael and Tom Brands play the recruiting game very differently in terms of allocating $$$$ and in how they are approaching recruits. Instead of Iowa fans complaining that PSU has a slush fund, they ought to be questioning how Iowa is spreading around the dollars they have. I wonder how well they actually do this.

Congrats to Brady and family and also to Cael, Cody and Casey!!

I despised USC football under Pete Carroll, but I see similarities in the way recruits were/are drawn to the respective programs. When Carroll had "5-star" recruits stacked up literally three-deep at some positions, many fans and analysts droned on about how "Player A won't go there because they already have Players X, Y, and Z." Yet they kept signing. Why? Because the recruits believed in themselves and they couldn't turn down an opportunity to compete for the best program.

Cael has surrounded himself with an energetic, intelligent and detail oriented young staff that "gets it". In a short period of time they have changed the college wrestling landscape and set a new bar. Maybe I'm dreaming but I don't see this changing anytime soon.

I think there are SOME similarities. The biggest difference in my mind IS culture. Cael values and wants student athletes. Carroll wanted athletes who happen to be students. Some of that is probably just due to the differences between football and wrestling in terms of the $$$$ potential but its still a big difference in culture.

 

[dicemen99]

You're off a year on Busiello. He's class of 2020 (a year behind Raimo)

Busiello is 2019

 

[T J]

I would honestly love this. Even Purdue, where he was rumored to go. It's not that a lot of guys need to vacate from Penn State or Iowa, just...I mean, SOME, right? Obviously most top level guys are going to a top level school, but given how much we know about how good these guys are now, given how much more ready many are to wrestle as true frosh, it's hard to see it as anything but bad for the whole of the sport for one school, or a small cadre of schools, to get all the top level talent. I'm not insinuating Cael and Penn State didn't do anything wrong here, their responsibility is to their program. Or that Berge did anything wrong. It's more of a macro level I'm talking about, this case is just the impetus for the discussion.

OTOH - Penn State's success can be very good for the sport, coast to coast.

The Penn State style is much more exciting for fans to watch. This can attract more good young athletes to the sport.

The long-term benefit for college teams is there may be a greater flood of much higher quality wrestlers that can spread to programs across the US.

The goal is to lift all boats with a rising tide of more exciting wrestlers for high schools and for more NCAA teams.

 

[LemonPie]

You're off a year on Busiello. He's class of 2020 (a year behind Raimo)

Nope. 2019

 

[RandyL]

It does seem sometimes like Cortez is almost an afterthought in discussion of lineups.
He gets a bare mention as being penciled in at 133 or something like that.

Nobody raves abut his potential like Suriano or N Lee
Whats a 4-time champ gotta do?
If Fix chooses the good guys does Cortez get squeezed out at some point?

 

[James P. Whitters III]

OTOH - Penn State's success can be very good for the sport, coast to coast.

The Penn State style is much more exciting for fans to watch. This can attract more good young athletes to the sport.

The long-term benefit for college teams is there may be a greater flood of much higher quality wrestlers that can spread to programs across the US.

The goal is to lift all boats with a rising tide of more exciting wrestlers for high schools and for more NCAA teams.

I agree with you TJ. I coach several kids on a part time basis and it is amazing the amount of PSU gear we see at practice these days. You would not have found any of that in central Iowa 10 years ago. DT had a ton to do with the popularity and now Zain has been this way doing a clinic which picked him up a couple guys who worship him. We had a guy running a body scissor with a power half last week (age 10) and he said "how do you like my melon crusher coach?" I laughed . I always show the guys video of college wrestling and Nolf is my current favorite guy to talk about. We also watch tons of Gilman,Bo,Zain,Snyder,Imar, and Gwiz. Wrestlers should aspire to wrestle like these guys. I do still break out the old Metcalf videos once in awhile because he personified that attack style so well. I'm guessing Spencer Lee will have an impact on these kids too in the near future, so will Mr. Hall.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

My sense is Cael and Tom Brands play the recruiting game very differently in terms of allocating $$$$ and in how they are approaching recruits. Instead of Iowa fans complaining that PSU has a slush fund, they ought to be questioning how Iowa is spreading around the dollars they have. I wonder how well they actually do this.

The $$ is the great unknown -- coaches and wrestlers rarely speak about it, and very few folks know the details.

I don't ask wrestlers about their scholarships. IMHO, that's their business, and their family's business, and none of mine.

That said, of the few wrestlers that have discussed it in general terms with me, especially those that were being recruited by PSU and by Iowa, they basically indicated that the offers from both schools were about the same. So in the subset of the "allocating $$$" that involves recruits, I think the two schools are pretty similar. How they deal with the allocations in future years is something that we can speculate on, but there is almost no reliable data on that.

 

[johnstownsteel]

My sense is Cael and Tom Brands play the recruiting game very differently in terms of allocating $$$$ and in how they are approaching recruits. Instead of Iowa fans complaining that PSU has a slush fund, they ought to be questioning how Iowa is spreading around the dollars they have. I wonder how well they actually do this.



I think there are SOME similarities. The biggest difference in my mind IS culture. Cael values and wants student athletes. Carroll wanted athletes who happen to be students. Some of that is probably just due to the differences between football and wrestling in terms of the $$$$ potential but its still a big difference in culture.

Don't know what these coaches do but I know what I see from some of their fans. They throw the words "give him a full ride" around like it's going out of style. I saw one just yesterday say give Teasdale a full ride after he found out Berge wouldn't be going to Iowa. Soon as I saw that it had me thinking, don't complain then if your team doesn't stack talent up like PSU is doing. Seeing that actually led to my initial post in this thread although it really was beating a dead horse as far as Lee is concerned. I was just trying to point out that I believe Cael spreads out the dollars instead of throwing it all at a few each class

 

[grappler6]

Manville competing at 80kg at the Farrell.

 

[grappler6]

Iowas Out of state Tuition is about 10,000 cheaper than Penn State. So not all offers are equal in terms of percentage and dollars.

 

[Sean Harp]

Manville competing at 80kg at the Farrell.

Thanks grappler6. Good info.

For those who don't smuggle their cocaine in mass quantities, 80 kg is 176.37 lb. The days of projecting Manville at 149 are over.... or 157 for that matter. Would put him in the 165-184 range for his collegiate career.

 

[Pennstate1985]

OTOH - Penn State's success can be very good for the sport, coast to coast.

The Penn State style is much more exciting for fans to watch. This can attract more good young athletes to the sport.

The long-term benefit for college teams is there may be a greater flood of much higher quality wrestlers that can spread to programs across the US.

The goal is to lift all boats with a rising tide of more exciting wrestlers for high schools and for more NCAA teams.

Is woman's basketball more or less marketable with UCONN as perennial winners? I'd say more.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Thanks grappler6. Good info.

For those who don't smuggle their cocaine in mass quantities, 80 kg is 176.37 lb. The days of projecting Manville at 149 are over.... or 157 for that matter. Would put him in the 165-184 range for his collegiate career.

The non-Olympic weights for Greco are 71kg and 80kg so it was one or the other. 71kg is 156 pounds so you are probably right that in college he will be above 157 pounds.

 

[Sean Harp]

The non-Olympic weights for Greco are 71kg and 80kg so it was one or the other. 71kg is 156 pounds so you are probably right that in college he will be above 157 pounds.

Good logic. Thank you NoVa.

 

[RandyL]

Good logic. Thank you NoVa.

So...t might appear that Manville and Wittlake, who share the distinction of being successful at Greco-Roman in addition to free/folk styles, might do battle for some of the upper weights. That sounds fine to me.
We want everyone to be happy.

 

[El-Jefe]

Thanks grappler6. Good info.

For those who don't smuggle their cocaine in mass quantities, 80 kg is 176.37 lb. The days of projecting Manville at 149 are over.... or 157 for that matter. Would put him in the 165-184 range for his collegiate career.

 

[El-Jefe]

Is woman's basketball more or less marketable with UCONN as perennial winners? I'd say more.

Isn't this like Bart telling Homer "I respect you as much as I ever have"?

 

[NYWRESTLER94]

You're off a year on Busiello. He's class of 2020 (a year behind Raimo)

He's 2019

 

[El-Jefe]

Don't know what these coaches do but I know what I see from some of their fans. They throw the words "give him a full ride" around like it's going out of style. I saw one just yesterday say give Teasdale a full ride after he found out Berge wouldn't be going to Iowa. Soon as I saw that it had me thinking, don't complain then if your team doesn't stack talent up like PSU is doing. Seeing that actually led to my initial post in this thread although it really was beating a dead horse as far as Lee is concerned. I was just trying to point out that I believe Cael spreads out the dollars instead of throwing it all at a few each class

Not only do the kids get less than we think, and it's none of our business ... But even when they say what they got, you can't believe it. Not that they're lying, just that they don't know or care to differentiate.

They just give out a number, which likely includes more than athletic aid -- academic, needs-based, diversity, whatever is legal and reduces their out of pocket.

Probably also student loans -- you and I know that's a deferred bill, due later with interest, but kids see that as zero out of pocket today.

 

[greenmanRD]

It does seem sometimes like Cortez is almost an afterthought in discussion of lineups.
He gets a bare mention as being penciled in at 133 or something like that.

Nobody raves abut his potential like Suriano or N Lee
Whats a 4-time champ gotta do?
If Fix chooses the good guys does Cortez get squeezed out at some point?

I agree. Cortez can really go. I can't wait to see what a year with Cael has done for him. He can produce on Conaway's level and might be able to do more.

 

[crazytoadie]

If Berge can go 149 he's a perfect fit for Zain's replacement after redshirt, but the money is the issue. A year at OTC to wait for Zain's money to go off books?

I'm thinking the Buckeyes are making a big late push on both Fix and Warner. Just reading the tea leaves, but no real Twitter trail.

Verge has wrestled 160 and 152, but

It does seem sometimes like Cortez is almost an afterthought in discussion of lineups.
He gets a bare mention as being penciled in at 133 or something like that.

Nobody raves abut his potential like Suriano or N Lee
Whats a 4-time champ gotta do?
If Fix chooses the good guys does Cortez get squeezed out at some point?

No. Cortez will only overlap for 2 years with Fix. Cortez could likely move up when Gulibon leaves and either Fix/Suriano would have a redshirt available if Cortex stayed at 133, so it could be shuffled.

 

[NYWRESTLER94]

Verge has wrestled 160 and 152, but


No. Cortez will only overlap for 2 years with Fix. Cortez could likely move up when Gulibon leaves and either Fix/Suriano would have a redshirt available if Cortex stayed at 133, so it could be shuffled.

What about RBY and Busiello?

 

[JOESTROSSER]

What about RBY and Busiello?

And Nick Lee with Berge at 149. 141 would get crowded. Crazy good times.

 

[NYWRESTLER94]

And Nick Lee with Berge at 149. 141 would get crowded. Crazy good times.

You guys are also going after Teemer who is in that range as well

 

[dicemen99]

You guys are also going after Teemer who is in that range as well

Don't you think Teemer may project a bit higher? After seeing him in person he seems to have a long frame (for his size) capable of putting on some weight. Long arms. Obviously, you know better than me.

 

[NYWRESTLER94]

Don't you think Teemer may project a bit higher? After seeing him in person he seems to have a long frame capable of putting on some weight. Obviously, you know better than me.

I see him as a 141-157 in college he's about 140 right now

 

[dicemen99]

I see him as a 141-157 in college he's about 140 right now

Yeah, sounds about right - I was thinking you were referring to the 133-141 area. He looks like a kid who could wrestle multiple weights in college as he matures - which I think helps with roster management.

 

[RandyL]

Perhaps Cael can get permission from NCAA to send two squads to nationals.

 

[crazytoadie]

What about RBY and Busiello?

?

Not an issue for Cortez. RBY has 2 years of HS, so a RS provides the necessary separation if they are at the same weight. Busiello has 3 years of HS so Cortez's eligibility is gone by the time he steps on campus. I wouldn't be surprised if Busiello outgrows 133 before college either.

Suriano, Fix, RBY, and Busiello are in consecutive classes so there is enough spread that we could fit them in from 125 to 141 with redshirts. That's not even considering that RBY or Busiello go above 141.

The guy that will get pinched are Rasheed (whenever Hall comes in). Manville or Lee may have to wait depending till Retherford graduates or Nolf moves up, but eventually they get a spot.

 

[johnstownsteel]

And Nick Lee with Berge at 149. 141 would get crowded. Crazy good times.

You mean to tell me Berge isn't gonna just walk in and be big man on campus? That's funny..some Iowa fans are thinking he chose PSU over them because he'll have an easier time breaking the lineup. The way I see things, he's gonna be in a dog fight no matter what weight he goes. I'll say this, if he is a 149 for a couple years I sure hope Nick Lee can hold 141 during that time. And totally speculating here but I think Lee is going to be a beast and Berge would be on the bench or forced to move up. No knock on Berge. I just think Lee is that good.

 

[matter7172]

You mean to tell me Berge isn't gonna just walk in and be big man on campus? That's funny..some Iowa fans are thinking he chose PSU over them because he'll have an easier time breaking the lineup. The way I see things, he's gonna be in a dog fight no matter what weight he goes. I'll say this, if he is a 149 for a couple years I sure hope Nick Lee can hold 141 during that time. And totally speculating here but I think Lee is going to be a beast and Berge would be in the bench or forced to move up. No knock on Berge. I just think Lee is that good.

Well, to be fair to that Iowa poster, he basically said he has no idea about who is in the Penn State room, so you have to take what he says with a grain of salt.

The Flo radio broadcast (#157) dealt extensively with Nick Lee's weight. He's been pretty close to flat in weight over the last 4 years, so hopefully he will be a lifetime 141.

 

[NittanyLion84]

Perhaps Cael can get permission from NCAA to send two squads to nationals.

If our 2nd team finished ahead of Iowa, HR would self detonate.

 

[Sean Harp]

The guy that will get pinched are Rasheed (whenever Hall comes in).

197 remains fluid. Can Cassar and Stout (and later AJ Nevills) fend off McCutcheon this year and next, in addition to Rasheed next year and the following? Rasheed could be a 197 AA his senior year. Maybe 184 if Nickal mirrors Q's 174, 184, 184, 197. Methinks Rasheed will have opportunities beyond 174.

 

[Azchief32]

You mean to tell me Berge isn't gonna just walk in and be big man on campus? That's funny..some Iowa fans are thinking he chose PSU over them because he'll have an easier time breaking the lineup. The way I see things, he's gonna be in a dog fight no matter what weight he goes. I'll say this, if he is a 149 for a couple years I sure hope Nick Lee can hold 141 during that time. And totally speculating here but I think Lee is going to be a beast and Berge would be on the bench or forced to move up. No knock on Berge. I just think Lee is that good.

Uh no. Two guys said it: One was El Dub who admitted to Dice that he doesn't know Berge's path to the lineup at PSU (or probably cares) and this one by "SmartAggressive":

"You guys are ASSUMING that TnT wanted Berge as much as we the fans did. I have no inside info, but maybe, just maybe, they didn't view him as a must get/high priority.
Perhaps they didn't see him making the lineup for a few years. Maybe there was something else.

I'm sure they would have liked to get Berge. Who wouldn't? He's a great high school wrestler and seems like a great young man. But maybe TnT didn't view him as a great fit and chose to spend more time and money on other recruits.

I guess what I'm getting at is that it seems kind of silly for us fans to get all bent out of shape over one recruit and to criticize the coaches when we have no idea what their plan is."

PSU or Iowa, he would have to hold 149 to start his RS Freshman year. Perfect replacement for Zain (or Sorensen had he gone that route) or even Nolf in three years if he grows but he would have been riding the pine until Kemerer graduates if he could no longer make 149.

 

[Ja1339]

You mean to tell me Berge isn't gonna just walk in and be big man on campus? That's funny..some Iowa fans are thinking he chose PSU over them because he'll have an easier time breaking the lineup. The way I see things, he's gonna be in a dog fight no matter what weight he goes. I'll say this, if he is a 149 for a couple years I sure hope Nick Lee can hold 141 during that time. And totally speculating here but I think Lee is going to be a beast and Berge would be on the bench or forced to move up. No knock on Berge. I just think Lee is that good.

I can see Lee at 41 & Berge RS in 17-18. Lee RS and Barge 49 in 18-19. Lee at 49 & Barge at 57 in 19-20, after Nolf graduates.

 

[dicemen99]

If our 2nd team finished ahead of Iowa, HR would self detonate.

125 Schnupp vs Rathburn
133 Fix vs Wagner
141 Moss vs. Turk/Happel
149 Dinmore vs Sorenson
157 Berge vs. Kemerer
165 Manville vs. St. John
174 Rasheed vs Young
184 McCutcheon vs. Wilke
197 Stout vs Holloway
285 Johnson vs. Stoll

2017-18 PSU backups vs. Iowa starters

Pretty sure we can win 6 in that dual

 

[JOESTROSSER]

You mean to tell me Berge isn't gonna just walk in and be big man on campus? That's funny..some Iowa fans are thinking he chose PSU over them because he'll have an easier time breaking the lineup. The way I see things, he's gonna be in a dog fight no matter what weight he goes. I'll say this, if he is a 149 for a couple years I sure hope Nick Lee can hold 141 during that time. And totally speculating here but I think Lee is going to be a beast and Berge would be on the bench or forced to move up. No knock on Berge. I just think Lee is that good.

I'm with you on this. I thought 141 for a year with Lee moving up to 149. It was pointed out that Lee would still have a RS so maybe it all works out in time.

 

[NYWRESTLER94]

?

Not an issue for Cortez. RBY has 2 years of HS, so a RS provides the necessary separation if they are at the same weight. Busiello has 3 years of HS so Cortez's eligibility is gone by the time he steps on campus. I wouldn't be surprised if Busiello outgrows 133 before college either.

Suriano, Fix, RBY, and Busiello are in consecutive classes so there is enough spread that we could fit them in from 125 to 141 with redshirts. That's not even considering that RBY or Busiello go above 141.

The guy that will get pinched are Rasheed (whenever Hall comes in). Manville or Lee may have to wait depending till Retherford graduates or Nolf moves up, but eventually they get a spot.

I believe at some point in his career suriano will move up to 133 there would be at least a year of overlapping between him and RBY. Take him out and insert Busiello a year later he's going to be in the 133-141 range and I can definitely see RBY as the same. You also have nick lee who seems to be a 141 with a chance at becoming a 149 I guess and the current recruitment of Jacori Teemer who I've said I believe will be anywhere from 141-157 in college and he is currently a junior as well. A lot of studs, even more than I've named around the same weight who are at psu, will be there, or could possibly be there in the future and only a few spots to fit some in. Good problem for the team but I do wonder what some of these guys do if they don't end up starting

 

[Ja1339]

I can see Lee at 41 & Berge RS in 17-18. Lee RS and Barge 49 in 18-19. Lee at 49 & Barge at 57 in 19-20, after Nolf graduates.

J Lee could eventually move into 65.

 

[Ja1339]

RS- Berge, Manville, A. Nevills

125- Suriano
133- Cortez
141- N. Lee
149- Zain
157- Nolf
165- Joseph
174- Hall
184- Nickal
197- Cutch/Rasheed/Cassar/Stout
Hwt- N. Nevills

RS- Wittlake, RBY, S. Nevills, J. Lee
125- Schnupp/Yanovich
133- Suriano
141- Cortez
149- N. Lee
157- Nolf
165- Joseph
174- Hall
184- Nickal
197- Rasheed/Cassar/Stout/A. Nevills
Hwt- N. Nevills

RS- Busiello, Raimo
125- McHenry*
133- Suriano
141- RBY
149- N. Lee
157- Berge/J. Lee
165- Joseph
174- Hall
184- Wittlake
197- A. Nevills/Stout
Hwt- S. Nevills*

125- McHenry*
133- Raimo*
141- RBY/Busiello
149- N. Lee
157- Berge
165- J. Lee/Manville
174- Hall
184- Wittlake
197- A. Nevills/??
Hwt- S. Nevills

125- McHenry
133- Raimo
141- RBY
149- Busiello
157- Berge
165- J. Lee
174- Manville
184- Wittlake
197- A. Nevills/??
Hwt- S. Nevills

* not committed (or even targeted as far as I know)
Summary:
-Manville out of luck, could slot into 174 for two years if Hall doesn't redshirt.
-Trying to be responsible about Suriano. 2 years is about all we can ask for at 125.
- Could see another 197 recruit by 2019.
- Berge could be 149 after Zain, but that means Suriano stays down or Nick Lee redshirts. Don't know about that.
- Could be a weight off on RBY and Busiello

I could see Bo moving up to 97 in 2 years. After a RS year for Manville next year, then some combo of Manville/Hall in 74/84 in two years.