Lawyers on the board thoughts?
Glad they didn't hire flolegal.....
Glad they didn't hire flolegal.....
Bishop mccourt going to federal court
- Thread starter dunkej01
- Start date
Waiting on client responses so I'll go ahead and briefly summarize: the parents and coach are suing for violation of 14th amendment due process; 14th amendment equal protection clause; 1st amendment freedom of association; and defamation. The last three causes of action seem like wild stretches, even if everything in the complaint is accurate.
An equal protection clause claim realistically requires you to show discrimination in order to succeed, and more often than not, that the plaintiffs belong to a protected class. Wrestling coaches? Probably not. And was someone else similarly situated (e.g., basketball coaches) receiving a benefit they weren't? Complaint doesn't say.
The freedom of association and defamation claims are also weak because they merely restate the natural fallout from what otherwise seems like ordinary administrative actions. If the PIAA has the authority to suspend a coach, that doesn't mean that when they do so your rights were violated because you feel you were tarred by implication. You need something more pointed and compelling than what's in here.
I'm also skeptical of the due process claim, but I don't know enough about what duties and obligations the PIAA owes in terms of hearing, and whether they violated them. My guess is that they have significantly more leeway and protection from second-guessing than is being implied here. Again, I'm assuming everything in the complaint is accurate. I'm more skeptical of the students' claims than the coach's.
To that due process claim, the complaint alleges that the PIAA (1) gave no notice of a hearing conducted to determine whether there were recruiting violations; (2) weren't represented by counsel; and (3) weren't given an opportunity to testify. The wording is awkward in this section (paragraph 73), so I'm not entirely clear whether they did testify at first and weren't later given a response to rebut? More importantly, I don't know whether the PIAA was legally obliged to provide those courtesies, and the answer probably hinges on a number of things not before me in this complaint.
The meat of the claim is that even despite the above, the PIAA had no basis to issue the penalties it issued, i.e., that there was no evidence that the transfers were primarily motivated by athletics. I'll wait to see the PIAA's response before speculating as to whether that's the case. The complaint doesn't offer a motivation for why the PIAA would arbitrarily bring the hammer down here, which is one of the reasons I'm skeptical. I'm not saying that no administrative body would ever arbitrarily act purely out of either malice, laziness, or whatever, but your complaint looks better if you have story that attempts to explain what you think is really going on here, b/c a judge will afford an administrative defendant some benefit of the doubt, and you need to overcome those presumptions.
Plenty of people here know more than me about the PIAA and Bishop McCort, so I'll stop short of speculating what's really going on myself, but the complaint exists independently of that backstory, whatever it is.
An equal protection clause claim realistically requires you to show discrimination in order to succeed, and more often than not, that the plaintiffs belong to a protected class. Wrestling coaches? Probably not. And was someone else similarly situated (e.g., basketball coaches) receiving a benefit they weren't? Complaint doesn't say.
The freedom of association and defamation claims are also weak because they merely restate the natural fallout from what otherwise seems like ordinary administrative actions. If the PIAA has the authority to suspend a coach, that doesn't mean that when they do so your rights were violated because you feel you were tarred by implication. You need something more pointed and compelling than what's in here.
I'm also skeptical of the due process claim, but I don't know enough about what duties and obligations the PIAA owes in terms of hearing, and whether they violated them. My guess is that they have significantly more leeway and protection from second-guessing than is being implied here. Again, I'm assuming everything in the complaint is accurate. I'm more skeptical of the students' claims than the coach's.
To that due process claim, the complaint alleges that the PIAA (1) gave no notice of a hearing conducted to determine whether there were recruiting violations; (2) weren't represented by counsel; and (3) weren't given an opportunity to testify. The wording is awkward in this section (paragraph 73), so I'm not entirely clear whether they did testify at first and weren't later given a response to rebut? More importantly, I don't know whether the PIAA was legally obliged to provide those courtesies, and the answer probably hinges on a number of things not before me in this complaint.
The meat of the claim is that even despite the above, the PIAA had no basis to issue the penalties it issued, i.e., that there was no evidence that the transfers were primarily motivated by athletics. I'll wait to see the PIAA's response before speculating as to whether that's the case. The complaint doesn't offer a motivation for why the PIAA would arbitrarily bring the hammer down here, which is one of the reasons I'm skeptical. I'm not saying that no administrative body would ever arbitrarily act purely out of either malice, laziness, or whatever, but your complaint looks better if you have story that attempts to explain what you think is really going on here, b/c a judge will afford an administrative defendant some benefit of the doubt, and you need to overcome those presumptions.
Plenty of people here know more than me about the PIAA and Bishop McCort, so I'll stop short of speculating what's really going on myself, but the complaint exists independently of that backstory, whatever it is.
What he said.
Most of the federal claims they sue under don't have PA equivalents as broad as those found in the US constitution.
I was able to easily find a number of federal courts finding that the PIAA is a state actor in similar contexts, and I'm not sure why they wouldn't. The PIAA doesn't have an existence independent of public schools.
Not sure why the question of athletics being an educational process would arise.
I imagine that's probably the case, as it often is, but at the same time proving disparate treatment is really hard because you need to prove two things: non-party x violated the same rule (and they won't be quick to help); and the defendant had actual knowledge of that violation and ignored it. Even if it's largely understood to be the case, it's extremely difficult to show.
Was it transfers (emphasis on the “s”) that caused the punishment? I thought reading the articles from when the penalties were handed down, it seemed to be focusing on one particular kid who transferred this season from Forest Hills?
The closest case I could find was Brentwood Academy in Tn. Basically the same case but related to football. Lower federal courts found in favor of the governing body. Saw extracurricular activities as a privilage not an educational right. School chose to join the governing body and in turn had to live with the rules and established procedures and decisions. That decision was overturned and reinstated for nearly 10 years in the system.
Time is their biggest battle. They could potentially win after the suspension is over.
Founding Fathers sound like a bunch of Liberal pansies!
Everyone knows they went for sports. They know it, the schools know it, the courts know it. and so forth. Stop pretending. The big question is should they be allowed? That’s over my pay grade so to speak.
The ultimate outcome for the parties changed but the test for determining whether a sports regulating body is a state actor didn't, it was settled in the same case you cited. Maybe the PIAA raises the argument but it appears quite settled to me. Subsequently, in the same case you're referring to, the same Supreme Court found that the recruiting rule in question didn't implicate the first amendment so the sports-regulating body wound up winning anyway. The PIAA will likely cite that case in its motion to dismiss.
Just like the lawsuit depends on what you can prove, whether they went for sports and you know it has nothing to do with it. Can someone prove it?
Why should they be allowed? Cuz others were? Well those others probably didnt burn bridges when they left their former school, those others didnt foolishly brag about it online,those others werent already in a national spotlight.
They broke the rules, another school complained (the complaint cannot be lodged by PIAA, it has to be from another school), and now they should have to accept the penalty, sad but thats life, we live by rules unfortunately lol.
How many people outside District 6 really care? How many people outside PA care? I can tell you that I could give a rat's ass whether I get to see these kids beat the snot out of some AA kids in the PIAA Tournament. I want to see these guys wrestle, but I want to see them wrestle some other Prep kids from across the country. I want to see them in Super 32, Powerade, Fargo, and the National Prep Championships against the best competition.
And if they want to compete against the best in the state, at least go AAA.
This is about nothing more than hurt feelings and the ability to be an undefeated 4-timer.
I say they should just focus on being the best PSU wrestlers they can be, and move on from this crap.
And if they want to compete against the best in the state, at least go AAA.
This is about nothing more than hurt feelings and the ability to be an undefeated 4-timer.
I say they should just focus on being the best PSU wrestlers they can be, and move on from this crap.
I think the best outcome at this point is for the Bassett's to move to SC, and grey shirt the next 4 years. Done.
Ahh, the rats ass, how is it this even became a thing?
Did someone actually give someone else a rat’s ass??
And while Im here, why do we say “ thats the cat’s ass”?? What the hell is so special about a cat’s ass???
All I know is that the crown of my head resembles a cat’s ass.
No idea on the origin of “rats ass”.
But I do know the origin of “rule of thumb”.
This is just a general comment about the PIAA. At best they seem to be inconsistent on some of the decisions. I just saw the new male sport Classification's for the next 2 years. They just bumped up Aliquippa with 118 male students to 5A which I think was tiered between 380-530 male students. I'm not saying that they should not be bumped but it now seems that the PIAA probably got influenced by some 4A teams. Backroom politics. They also bumped up Southern Columbia. So they move up a couple of public schools but did nothing to about the elephant in the room, the private school unfair advantage in sport recruiting. 🙃
Your complaint about private schools recruiting in football is the same as the discussion above. If nobody files a complaint, nothing is done. A school needs to file a complaint at the district level first.
I get the bigger picture argument about public vs private. The PIAA isn't going to touch that unless forced to. And once again, if nobody complains, nothing gets done. The PIAA is reactive, not proactive.
PIAA should do exactly that, bump them to AAA and move on. I would assume they wouldn’t care, it would make AAA even better. Case closed, moving on. I don’t think the PIAA wants to get into chasing Ms athletes and tracking all their moves. Hey Zain Train moved, got a year penalty and turned out to be a very good Nittany Lion.
My only thing is how is this different than Becca, NDGP, Waynesburg, Nazareth, etc. I guess the only difference was these guys were quiet and Mcort was loud about it.
I was at a MS event this weekend, wait until AA gets a look at this Faith Academy.
My only thing is how is this different than Becca, NDGP, Waynesburg, Nazareth, etc. I guess the only difference was these guys were quiet and Mcort was loud about it.
I was at a MS event this weekend, wait until AA gets a look at this Faith Academy.
That wasn't back room politicking. PIAA passed rules a few years ago that you move up when you keep winning titles at the current level.
I have a hard time understanding the situations like Zain's) His family literally moved to Benton, bought a farm that they still operate today, and he was forced to sit out. If it were him using a relatives address, while his family lives in a different school district I would get it. PIAA can now dictate if a family can move or get a new job?
There is a simple solution to the problem. Have an individual championship and seperate (public/private) team championship. Then the private schools can recruit all they want.
This all boils down to adults ruining kids’ sports. It’s a goddamn disgrace.
Without agreeing with that decision:
Line Mountain said at the the time they would've signed a transfer to any other school in the region except Benton.
They had a point about Benton being an athletics transfer. Zain has said his father was able to transfer his job with the railroad to the Lock Haven area. There are a LOT of other schools where they could've bought a farm, significantly closer than Benton -- such as Central Mountain, Bellefonte, State College, Montoursville, etc. So why Benton if not the relationship with Hughes?
LOL. Many years of winning titles means it's about the program, not any graduating class.
And the rule was basically: it's unnatural for a homegrown team to have sustained state-wide dominance. Which is true.
I bet they would make that same decisions 100 times over. It definitely worked out for Zain and being in the environment he wanted. Yes Hughes probably did have a huge impact on the decision. I hate mega teams and private schools but parents should be allowed to send their kids to where ever they want. Someone said early let the privates have their own conference and make PIAA all public. Football and basketball would be a lot different then.
Is Waynesburg Central private or public
That cat's ass doesn't even have a workspace!
Sincerely Chevy Silverado 1500 pickup truck owners!
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Again, a school telling a family that they can move anywhere but a certain school is BS. The fact that they still live there all these years later kind of proves the decision was crap. If it were all about wrestling they would have left when Zain graduated.
Aa much as the disdain is warranted for McCort as they have been repeat offenders over the years, I'll repeat my comment on this situation.
Their one HS transfer - Eric Gibson - was ruled ineligible last season for the postseason and sat out as per PIAA rules. ALL of the other kids we're talking about here came to McCort BEFORE HS.
I get it - their past actions have been shady. But since when has the PIAA stepped in in the case of middle school kids? I'll answer - NEVER.
Honestly, I can't see how the PIAA actions in regards to the kids stand up in any way to scrutiny. The actions against the coach, yes, but who really cares about that. Bassett will just have an assistant be HC for the duration of the suspension. It's a pretty toothless penalty. Which is why they went after the kids IMO - which is wrong on multiple levels.
Their one HS transfer - Eric Gibson - was ruled ineligible last season for the postseason and sat out as per PIAA rules. ALL of the other kids we're talking about here came to McCort BEFORE HS.
I get it - their past actions have been shady. But since when has the PIAA stepped in in the case of middle school kids? I'll answer - NEVER.
Honestly, I can't see how the PIAA actions in regards to the kids stand up in any way to scrutiny. The actions against the coach, yes, but who really cares about that. Bassett will just have an assistant be HC for the duration of the suspension. It's a pretty toothless penalty. Which is why they went after the kids IMO - which is wrong on multiple levels.
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