BoB or Franklin, who's better?

[LandoComando]

Seriously. How did a segment of the fans try to sabotage O’Brien? It was the Paterno loyalists who instituted the lawsuits which eventually got the sanctions reduced. I consider myself a Paterno loyalist who thinks he was one of the largest scapegoats by people trying to cover their respective you know whats but have been fully supportive of first O’Brien and now Franklin. Some people can walk and chew gum at the same time. Apparently O’Brien isn’t.

When you have a segment of the fan base only worried about Paterno's legacy it's absolutely sabotaging him and what he's trying to accomplish.
If you have been "fully supportive of O'Brien" you'd be able to see why he wasn't happy with the fan base not moving forward.
We're still talking about Paterno more than a decade later for absolutely no reason. The more you and others keep doing that the longer it will take for his legacy to be restored because all people see are delusional Penn State fans that still care more about Joe than the program.

 

[LandoComando]

The first 2 games were awful because O’Brien had to adapt to things outside of football? Do you have any more excuses for him? As I recall his first loss was to Miami of Ohio at home. Stop the BS.

Bad losses--when did the sanctions come down? When did kids leave? Pretending that nothing was happening then is absurd
What are your excuses for Paterno's countless failures and unacceptable loses well into his tenure? Or do you admit Paterno needed to retire around 2001 and essentially destroyed the program by staying?

 

[Obliviax]

The first 2 games were awful because O’Brien had to adapt to things outside of football? Do you have any more excuses for him? As I recall his first loss was to Miami of Ohio at home. Stop the BS.

PSU lost to a Frank Solich coached Ohio University 24-14. They were actually ranked in the top 25 then lost a bunch of players to injury and had a losing streak late in the season. We then lost to Virginia after our FG kicker missed several chip shot kicks and then went onto have a great career and have a cup of coffee in the NFL.

Regardless, I think you underestimate how decimated this team was. We lost several good players and the ones who stayed were concerned they would forever be associated with pedophilia. The thought was that we'd be booed off of every field and many pundits were angry that PSU was allowed to have a team at all.

 

[91Joe95]

BS flat out BS. O’Brien’s job as head coach was to coach the freaking team. How exactly are alleged JoeBots a problem today?

Don't diminish my power. At least Lando understands the power I wield.

 

[PurposePitch]

I like BOB and CJF equally. Both were integral parts of PSU's current and future success. JoeBots, however, can all go to hell. They should be quarantined from civilized society, and in their new community they can erect all the Joe statues they want, praying to it 5 times a day chanting "Success With Honor," ... and naming everything after Paterno. They can walk down Paterno Road to get to Joe State University, where the Joe State U. JoeBots play football on Paterno field, only ever calling running plays straight up the middle for the rest of their lives.

 

[Kasparaitis]

I like BOB and CJF equally. Both were integral parts of PSU's current and future success. JoeBots, however, can all go to hell. They should be quarantined from civilized society, and in their new community they can erect all the Joe statues they want, praying to it 5 times a day chanting "Success With Honor," ... and naming everything after Paterno. They can walk down Paterno Road to get to Joe State University, where the Joe State U. JoeBots play football on Paterno field, only ever calling running plays straight up the middle for the rest of their lives.

Please quit wasting our time. No one, and I mean absolutely no one, cares what a self important horse’s ass with a fake investment company like you thinks. You couldn’t carry Joe Paterno’s jock strap.

 

[Kasparaitis]

When you have a segment of the fan base only worried about Paterno's legacy it's absolutely sabotaging him and what he's trying to accomplish.
If you have been "fully supportive of O'Brien" you'd be able to see why he wasn't happy with the fan base not moving forward.
We're still talking about Paterno more than a decade later for absolutely no reason. The more you and others keep doing that the longer it will take for his legacy to be restored because all people see are delusional Penn State fans that still care more about Joe than the program.

The reason we’re still talking about Paterno now is the same reason they’ll be talking about Joe Paterno 100 years from now. He’s the Benjamin Franklin of college football. But we all know jealous, small minded people just can’t grasp that.

 

[fastlax16]

So here we go, one won coach of the year and never had a losing season. One didn't and had one. Both have never been to the playoffs. Who ya got?

Someone really wants to slant this towards Bill. O'Brien has 2 complete seasons as a college HC, Franklin has completed 13...

Franklin has never had a losing record in a 12 game regular season.

Who will have a better career win percentage after their 13th season? Bill or James? I like both for the record.

 

[LandoComando]

Someone really wants to slant this towards Bill. O'Brien has 2 complete seasons as a college HC, Franklin has completed 13...

Franklin has never had a losing record in a 12 game regular season.

Who will have a better career win percentage after their 13th season? Bill or James? I like both for the record.

Notice how you had to add "12 game regular season" because he did have a losing season
I like both too but the criticisms of O'Brien here are about personality not his ability to coach which isn't the discussion

 

[PurposePitch]

Please quit wasting our time. No one, and I mean absolutely no one, cares what a self important horse’s ass with a fake investment company like you thinks. You couldn’t carry Joe Paterno’s jock strap.

Look, kids ... a Joebot in the wild! Notice the wrinkly skin, the frown and the look of bewilderment as he shouts at passersby to get off JoePa's lawn. Wait, notice that frown turning upside down on the Joebot as he, yet again, reminisces about JoePa's jock strap.

 

[johnmpsu]

BoB didn't want to be here. Franklin does, or at least appears to. Case closed.

 

[LandoComando]

BoB didn't want to be here. Franklin does, or at least appears to. Case closed.

That doesn't make him a better coach

 

[johnmpsu]

That doesn't make him a better coach

Just better suited for the job.

 

[heckmans]

Sanctions were phased in and phased out. O'Brien did not have to cut 30 scholarships the first year. It was actually 65 player limit but don't worry about the facts. O'Brien had an existing senior filled roster. His scholarship freshman were the sanction hits and most those players did not play until Franklin got here. It was Franklin who had to start the 2 stars who had no power 5 offers other than psu. Franklin was starting kids who picked psu over marshall, Toledo, UMass, and Akron. Once sanctions were lifted the two stars did not transfer out. They were here for five years.

IIRC = If I remember correctly
~ = approximately

Not sure who pissed in your cheerios, but calm the F down with your "Facts" nonsense because I didn't make any hard assertions
But I remember 2012 well.
New HC
Some key players that transferred
Starting a walk on QB
A PK who couldn't hit the broadside of a barn and an ugly loss to UVA early in the season.
Suggesting that the roster was "senior filled" and solid in 2012 and PSU was expected to perform well is a giant rewriting of history.
8-4 was regarded a minor miracle.

Also, really don't know what you're arguing. Just seem to be suffering from ODS (O'Brien Derangement Syndrome), and that's coming from me, someone that is not an O'Brien cheerleader.

 

[voltz99]

Notice how you had to add "12 game regular season" because he did have a losing season
I like both too but the criticisms of O'Brien here are about personality not his ability to coach which isn't the discussion

So did Joe and Bear Bryant. When a coach QUITS after two years it is easier to not have a losing season.

 

[voltz99]

PSU lost to a Frank Solich coached Ohio University 24-14. They were actually ranked in the top 25 then lost a bunch of players to injury and had a losing streak late in the season. We then lost to Virginia after our FG kicker missed several chip shot kicks and then went onto have a great career and have a cup of coffee in the NFL.

Regardless, I think you underestimate how decimated this team was. We lost several good players and the ones who stayed were concerned they would forever be associated with pedophilia. The thought was that we'd be booed off of every field and many pundits were angry that PSU was allowed to have a team at all.

Ficken cost PSU the Nebraska OT game the following season with another missed XP.

 

[LandoComando]

So did Joe and Bear Bryant. When a coach QUITS after two years it is easier to not have a losing season.

Saban never had a losing season
Smart's never had a losing season
Meyer never had a losing season
Stoops never had a losing season
Osborne never had a losing season
Riley never had a losing season

Do you want more names or..

 

[91Joe95]

Notice how you had to add "12 game regular season" because he did have a losing season
I like both too but the criticisms of O'Brien here are about personality not his ability to coach which isn't the discussion

There have been plenty of criticisms about his coaching in this thread.

 

[LandoComando]

There have been plenty of criticisms about his coaching in this thread.

Not real ones other than Hodges returning kicks
Everything else has bene ignoring reality and trying to make it sound like he had a stacked team to discredit how his coaching was perceived nationally here
As a game day coach, he's better than Franklin as of today--that can still change. Hopefully he takes the restraints off AK.

 

[voltz99]

Not real ones other than Hodges returning kicks
Everything else has bene ignoring reality and trying to make it sound like he had a stacked team to discredit how his coaching was perceived nationally here
As a game day coach, he's better than Franklin as of today--that can still change. Hopefully he takes the restraints off AK.

How did he lose to Indiana, Illinois, CFU, a bad Nebraska team, Ohio bobcats, virginia, OSU and Minnesota?

Who had Zach Zwinak on the bench vs Virginia while Derek Day ran 20 times for 40 yds?

Do you think it is smart to go a season without a special teams coach? That was brilliant. Sarcasm. Maybe hire a special teams coach and the special teams(kicking game) would be better.



Who quit on the team in 2013?

 

[LandoComando]

How did he lose to Indiana, Illinois, CFU, a bad Nebraska team, Ohio bobcats, virginia, OSU and Minnesota?

Who had Zach Zwinak on the bench vs Virginia while Derek Day ran 20 times for 40 yds?

Do you think it is smart to go a season without a special teams coach? That was brilliant. Sarcasm. Maybe hire a special teams coach and the special teams(kicking game) would be better.



Who quit on the team in 2013?

Why do you keep saying he quit on the team in 2013? Like Franklin he simply accepted a new job. If O'Brien quit on us then Franklin quit on Vanderbilt--they're the same
Zwinak wasn't a star or anything.
Why did Franklin stick with Clifford over Levis? Pure stupidity?
A bad Nebraska team that was ranked? We know how he lost to Ohio and Virginia
Who did "experts" praise more during their time at Penn State? O'Brien in 2 years or Franklin in over a decade?

 

[voltz99]

Why do you keep saying he quit on the team in 2013? Like Franklin he simply accepted a new job. If O'Brien quit on us then Franklin quit on Vanderbilt--they're the same
Zwinak wasn't a star or anything.
Why did Franklin stick with Clifford over Levis? Pure stupidity?
A bad Nebraska team that was ranked? We know how he lost to Ohio and Virginia
Who did "experts" praise more during their time at Penn State? O'Brien in 2 years or Franklin in over a decade?

Unlike Franklin, Obrien QUIT on Penn State! You clearly dont understand the difference between taking the PSU job and leaving the PSU job. This is a PSU message board. Are you even a PSU fan?


Who had Zwinak sitting on the bench while Derrek Day had 20 carries for 40 yards? Was that a good coaching decision?

Who hired John Butler? Anyone impressed with that decision? Was there a single coach on that staff that actually moved up in the coaching ranks?

 

[Obliviax]

Unlike Franklin, Obrien QUIT on Penn State! You clearly dont understand the difference between taking the PSU job and leaving the PSU job. This is a PSU message board. Are you even a PSU fan?


Who had Zwinak sitting on the bench while Derrek Day had 20 carries for 40 yards? Was that a good coaching decision?

Who hired John Butler? Anyone impressed with that decision? Was there a single coach on that staff that actually moved up in the coaching ranks?

nobody wanted to be here. Nobody wanted to sign up for coaching PSU that year. Do people even remember? Newspapers were writing that anyone who played or worked at PSU was a pedophile enabler. People weren't sure that they'd have jobs after PSU. Even kids graduating from PSU got the feeling they were passed over because of their PSU degrees.

It is amazing how people forget how bad it was. It is amazing we have a team. Honestly, I give most credit for the 100k fans who showed up on Saturdays and made the players and staff feel that they were loved. Remember, O'Brian came to PSU before the sanctions and always felt that the PSU AD and management misled him.

 

[crm114psu]

Unlike Franklin, Obrien QUIT on Penn State! You clearly dont understand the difference between taking the PSU job and leaving the PSU job. This is a PSU message board. Are you even a PSU fan?


Who had Zwinak sitting on the bench while Derrek Day had 20 carries for 40 yards? Was that a good coaching decision?

Who hired John Butler? Anyone impressed with that decision? Was there a single coach on that staff that actually moved up in the coaching ranks?

Because at Penn State, coaches are expected to stay for life. Otherwise they are quitters.

Absolutely no valid reason to leave. We are the best of everything. Hell, we invented football.

 

[LandoComando]

Unlike Franklin, Obrien QUIT on Penn State! You clearly dont understand the difference between taking the PSU job and leaving the PSU job. This is a PSU message board. Are you even a PSU fan?


Who had Zwinak sitting on the bench while Derrek Day had 20 carries for 40 yards? Was that a good coaching decision?

Who hired John Butler? Anyone impressed with that decision? Was there a single coach on that staff that actually moved up in the coaching ranks?

It doesn't matter that he quit on Penn State. Quitting is quitting. We're talking about the better coach not which guy is more loyal. We always knew O'Brien would leave for the NFL--that was clear from his first press conference.
Zwinak wasn't good
Didn't Franklin just have to fire the OC he picked?

 

[voltz99]

Why do you keep saying he quit on the team in 2013? Like Franklin he simply accepted a new job. If O'Brien quit on us then Franklin quit on Vanderbilt--they're the same
Zwinak wasn't a star or anything.
Why did Franklin stick with Clifford over Levis? Pure stupidity?
A bad Nebraska team that was ranked? We know how he lost to Ohio and Virginia
Who did "experts" praise more during their time at Penn State? O'Brien in 2 years or Franklin in over a decade?

Why is Levi's current coach throwing him under the bus?

His coach said if they team punted on every possession in the second half they might have won the game.

Levis had a pick 6 in the 4th.

Passing	Comp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	QBRat
Will Levis	19	32	127	1	2	52.5

 

[91Joe95]

Not real ones other than Hodges returning kicks
Everything else has bene ignoring reality and trying to make it sound like he had a stacked team to discredit how his coaching was perceived nationally here
As a game day coach, he's better than Franklin as of today--that can still change. Hopefully he takes the restraints off AK.

Yes, there have been real, coaching related criticisms. Recruiting is the major component of coaching. Getting teams prepared is a major component of coaching. Questionable decisions are a major component of coaching. Etc, etc. You know what's not a major component of coaching? Being easily distracted by some fans, even those as powerful as me,

^^^ That's how silly your joebot rational is.

 

[LandoComando]

Why is Levi's current coach throwing him under the bus?

His coach said if they team punted on every possession in the second half they might have won the game.

Levis had a pick 6 in the 4th.

Passing	Comp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	QBRat
Will Levis	19	32	127	1	2	52.5

Young QB has to learn. The coach was correct. Criticism is allowed of players.

 

[LandoComando]

Yes, there have been real, coaching related criticisms. Recruiting is the major component of coaching. Getting teams prepared is a major component of coaching. Questionable decisions are a major component of coaching. Etc, etc. You know what's not a major component of coaching? Being easily distracted by some fans, even those as powerful as me,

^^^ That's how silly your joebot rational is.

Recruiting is separate from game day coaching. Both are equally important

 

[doctornick]

If I were choosing a head coach for a major college football program, I would definitely chose Franklin over O'Brien.

If I were choosing an Offensive Coordinator, I would absolutely choose O'Brien over Franklin.

 

[Safety Blitz]

I’ll take Franklin as my Monday to Friday CEO and BO’B as my weekend COO.

 

[voltz99]

It doesn't matter that he quit on Penn State. Quitting is quitting. We're talking about the better coach not which guy is more loyal. We always knew O'Brien would leave for the NFL--that was clear from his first press conference.
Zwinak wasn't good
Didn't Franklin just have to fire the OC he picked?

At least Franklin fired someone who was not getting it done. Bob fired good coaches and promoted bad coaches like butler. Did any of bobs coaches actually move up in the coaching ranks? Zero head coaches from his staff. I did not even see any who are at a higher level. Mostly horizontal moves or demotions. Butler is back to being a position coach.

O'Brien was a lousy CEO. Did not even get along with Brady. O'Brien was a prima dona. Demanded more power in Houston and ran the tesm hot worse. His first move was to get rid of a star player. Typical bob.

 

[Gnat91]

Bob had a 12.5 winning percentage against top 25 teams. Franklin since he’s been here has a 10.238 winning percentage against top 25 teams. Pretty much the same.

 

[LandoComando]

At least Franklin fired someone who was not getting it done. Bob fired good coaches and promoted bad coaches like butler. Did any of bobs coaches actually move up in the coaching ranks? Zero head coaches from his staff. I did not even see any who are at a higher level. Mostly horizontal moves or demotions. Butler is back to being a position coach.

O'Brien was a lousy CEO. Did not even get along with Brady. O'Brien was a prima dona. Demanded more power in Houston and ran the tesm hot worse. His first move was to get rid of a star player. Typical bob.

You mean, Franklin made someone the scapegoat. How was O'Brien even here long enough to do that?
Again, nothing you said in the second paragraph is about coaching. We all know your obsession with Franklin prevents you from being fair to others. This thread is really tough for you because you can't just say "what about Joe"?
All the bad loses--Franklin has worse
Franklin has a losing season but you ignored the long list of coaches that never did
Franklin and O'Brien have to get better.

 

[91Joe95]

If I were choosing a head coach for a major college football program, I would definitely chose Franklin over O'Brien.

If I were choosing an Offensive Coordinator, I would absolutely choose O'Brien over Franklin.

I'd choose neither.

 

[Gnat91]

How many times can you people keep bringing up the nonsense about O’Brien allegedly doing “more with less”. O’Brien had the advantage of having players left over from Paterno’s tenure for the 2 years he coached. The scholarship limitations only kicked in after he arrived. Any one with any objectivity would realize that years 3 and 4 would be the 2 toughest years since Paterno’s left over recruits would be leaving and the scholarship restrictions would begin to be felt. O’Brien left right when the sledding would be the toughest.

Who is “you people “ 👀

 

[Gnat91]

Need to work on your grammar, Gnat.

IF Bob were a tireless recruiter, which he is not, then he would be far and away the better head coach. As it is, you left "coach" open-ended. As a position coach or offensive coordinator, there is no question that Bob is the better coach. As a CEO, I think that Franklin is the better bet.

I absolutely did not. Both were or are head coaches at PSU. Neither were ever anything else here.

 

[PurposePitch]

O’Brien didn’t deal with reduced scholarships in his first year and had more talent at his disposal than Franklin did in his first 2 years. What was O’Brien’s excuse with the Texans?

O'Brien took over a 2 win Texans team, immediately posted a winning season .. and had a winning record 4 of his 5 seasons there, including 2 playoff appearances.

Why would he need an excuse for that?

The only real mess up he had wasn't as a coach, but as a GM.

 

[PurposePitch]

This thread is meant to do nothing than to sow discord.

I appreciate JoePa, Bill O'Brien and James Franklin. They all had a hand in getting the PSU football squad to where it is now. They were all positive influences here. People who want to bitch, moan and demonize one, or try to hold up one as holy, and belittle the others, or hold grudges ... those are sad, little people.

 

[bdroc]

Both have never had a losing season, both have never been to the playoffs. One won coach of the year. Bob did more with less imo. Discuss.

BOB didn't do more with less. He inherited a very solid team - a few key players lost to Freeh agency. IMO PSU would have won the BiG that year if they didn't lose Redd, Fortt, Fera, and Brown. But they still had a lot of good players. Franklin walked into a more difficult situation because of 2 yrs of limited scholarships.