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BOT unanimous vote

On the subject of Lubert and the Alumni 9, I'm disappointed as well that we didn't see a protest vote. Perhaps, I'm most disappointed that the challenger to Lubert dropped out. But I also understand that one should only choose to fight a battle if it gives you an advantage by fighting. So in understanding the decision made by the Alumni 9, I would ask what advantage there was in voting for a candidate that declined the position? Perhaps, given the choices, putting Lubert on the spot (as Anthony did), was the best choice of the options available. Perhaps I would have just abstained in their position given no other choice to vote for but I'm not in their position and I don't know what other information they have access to.
Jim -

As I am sure you are aware, I think your take on this is wrong.....so I won't try to parse words about that.
I also am sure that you are one of the many folks who has devoted a lot of time, energy, blood, sweat and tears to the right causes. If that were not the case, I wouldn't much care what you thought about this situation.
So - and I don't mean to start a pissing match - but I speak bluntly and directly (its the only way I know how to be) and I hope you know me well enough to not take it as some kind attack against you - - - but rather a outlining of the situation.

With that - at risk of offending - I will reply:
_____________


While I don't like to classify this issue as a "battle", I will use your term for consistency

The "battle" is to be proper fiduciaries for the University:

For years now - not just on July 22, 2016 - the majority of our A9 have acted as if they don't even know that THAT is the battle. And that is very discouraging.
I could go into a dissertation on those issues, but that can be for another time - - - since I have outlined numerous issues, repeatedly, in the past.

The "fight" we faced was whether to support Ira Lubert as Chairperson. Engaging in that "battle" IS NOT AN OPTION, it is a DUTY.
We (through our elected reps) are REQUIRED to engage in that battle.
In this case, this battle - selecting a Chairman - is not only a DUTY, it is either the #1 or #2 MOST important battle for any Board of governance member (the other option is the selection of the President/CEO).

That is a fact.....and no amount of "hand waving" can change that.

The "advantage" (and, again, I don't really like that term, but I'll mimic it) to be gained - or LOST - is the advantage of either being a proper steward, or not.

Failure to be a proper steward is a very, very, very, costly FAIL. It rips any shred or credibility or standing, or - if one wants to use this phrase - "moral high ground" from those who fail in that duty.

1- We, all of US, through our proxies, FAILED. Miserably.
2 - We failed in as awful a way possible.
3 - We threw full, unanimous support behind the single WORST possible option....and we KNEW what an awful decision it was - we all know that for a fact - there is no "pleading of ignorance" option here .
4 - We, through our proxies, gave unanimous support to Ira Lubert.

Those are the facts. They are incontrovertible and indelible.

From this day forward, WE, through our proxies, gave a shining stamp of approval to every action Lubert has ever undertaken on the Board, and every action he ever will take.
How awful is that?

We can try to circle-jerk around that. But that is the fact - - - and everyone - media folks, politicos, etc - now has EVERY right to hold us to that action.
Though I am sure many among us will bitch, moan, and complain to all of those entities when we are called out on it. Our bitches will be misdirected - - - the A9 established those facts for us.

We did it
It is on record
and
There is no denying it

And, once again, no amount of "hand waving" can ever change that fact.

The idea that we "put Lubert on the spot" couldn't be any more "untrue".
The idea that you put someone on the spot by having nothing but public praise expressed, and providing unanimous support via the votes....is ludicrous
(Anthony's "we will expect you to be a great leader" was nonsense....or any other "backroom-super-secret-information.....and most certainly doesn't put Lubert on anything close to "the spot")

In fact, if OUR proxies voted in the most directly violative way possibly with respect to our concerns, in the most important aspect of carrying out their fiduciary duties, and we are not even privy to "why"....then it only adds another layer to the failure - it does not excuse it.
We would be FURIOUS if the Nov 2011 Scoundrels acted even 1/2 so poorly.

Further, If we are somehow to believe that Ira Lubert - out of some sense of honor - will somehow change his spots........now that he has been given full, unanimous control....we are beyond stupid.

The three time-worn excuses of the A9...when they fail time and again to act as proper fiduciaries:

1 - "We are a minority, and we will just be out-voted anyway......so we just went along for expediencies sake"

2 - "We are working behind the scenes.....you don't know what we know"

and

3 - "It is just sooooo hard to be us"

Your post refers to the A9's use of all of these these A9 excuse chants - to some degree or another.....and we've all heard them time and again over the last 5 years.

Those excuses are DONE

If the November 11 Scoundrels used such excuses, we would be up in arms.
Hell, when they have used them - we were up in arms.....so that is not even a debatable point.

And yet, we - time and again - accept them from those folks who DIRECTLY speak for us......and that is even worse.
We need to be consistent in holding ALL fiduciaries to at least the same minimum standards.
It we do not......shame on us.

That's how I feel about it.....and I didn't (and I won't) even go through chapter and verse of how they PERSONALLY stabbed so many in the back throughout this process - - - - but I think you know those people as well as I do.

Anyway.

I wouldn't have bothered to spend these few minutes if I didn't have respect and admiration for all the work you have done.
But this situation is simply too damn important to let lie - IMO......and there are decisions we must now make.....
SO THIS IS NOT SOME ACADEMIC EXERCISE:

We need to determine if WE are going to shrug our shoulders, and let our expectations of fiduciary duty be "fungible" (that is a nice way of asking whether or not we will be hypocrites)
or
Will we DEMAND that those folks who act in our name behave appropriately - - - and, if they don't, engage in OUR duty to replace them with those who will
That is the decision WE face.

And it is a fact

And no amount of hand waving will change it.




In advance, let me say, I'm sorry.
 
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Jim -

As I am sure you are aware, I think your take on this is wrong.....so I won't try to parse words about that.
I also am sure that you are one of the many folks who has devoted a lot of time, energy, blood, sweat and tears to the right causes. If that were not the case, I wouldn't much care what you thought about this situation.
So - and I don't mean to start a pissing match - but I speak bluntly and directly (its the only way I know how to be) and I hope you know me well enough to not take it as some kind attack against you - - - but rather a outlining of the situation.

With that - at risk of offending - I will reply:
_____________


While I don't like to classify this issue as a "battle", I will use your term for consistency

The "battle" is to be proper fiduciaries for the University:

For years now - not just on July 22, 2016 - the majority of our A9 have acted as if they don't even know that THAT is the battle. And that is very discouraging.
I could go into a dissertation on those issues, but that can be for another time - - - since I have outlined numerous issues, repeatedly, in the past.

The "fight" we faced was whether to support Ira Lubert as Chairperson. Engaging in that "battle" IS NOT AN OPTION, it is a DUTY.
We (through our elected reps) are REQUIRED to engage in that battle.
In this case, this battle - selecting a Chairman - is not only a DUTY, it is either the #1 or #2 MOST important battle for any Board of governance member (the other option is the selection of the President/CEO).

That is a fact.....and no amount of "hand waving" can change that.

The "advantage" (and, again, I don't really like that term, but I'll mimic it) to be gained - or LOST - is the advantage of either being a proper steward, or not.

Failure to be a proper steward is a very, very, very, costly FAIL. It rips any shred or credibility or standing, or - if one wants to use this phrase - "moral high ground" from those who fail in that duty.

1- We, all of US, through our proxies, FAILED. Miserably.
2 - We failed in as awful a way possible.
3 - We threw full, unanimous support behind the single WORST possible option....and we KNEW what an awful decision it was - we all know that for a fact - there is no "pleading of ignorance" option here .
4 - We, through our proxies, gave unanimous support to Ira Lubert.

Those are the facts. They are incontrovertible and indelible.

From this day forward, WE, through our proxies, gave a shining stamp of approval to every action Lubert has ever undertaken on the Board, and every action he ever will take.
How awful is that?

We can try to circle-jerk around that. But that is the fact - - - and everyone - media folks, politicos, etc - now has EVERY right to hold us to that action.
Though I am sure many among us will bitch, moan, and complain to all of those entities when we are called out on it. Our bitches will be misdirected - - - the A9 established those facts for us.

We did it
It is on record
and
There is no denying it

And, once again, no amount of "hand waving" can ever change that fact.

The idea that we "put Lubert on the spot" couldn't be any more "untrue".
The idea that you put someone on the spot by having nothing but public praise expressed, and providing unanimous support via the votes....is ludicrous
(Anthony's "we will expect you to be a great leader" was nonsense....or any other "backroom-super-secret-information.....and most certainly doesn't put Lubert on anything close to "the spot")

In fact, if OUR proxies voted in the most directly violative way possibly with respect to our concerns, in the most important aspect of carrying out their fiduciary duties, and we are not even privy to "why"....then it only adds another layer to the failure - it does not excuse it.
We would be FURIOUS if the Nov 2011 Scoundrels acted even 1/2 so poorly.

Further, If we are somehow to believe that Ira Lubert - out of some sense of honor - will somehow change his spots........now that he has been given full, unanimous control....we are beyond stupid.

The three time-worn excuses of the A9...when they fail time and again to act as proper fiduciaries:

1 - "We are a minority, and we will just be out-voted anyway......so we just went along for expediencies sake"

2 - "We are working behind the scenes.....you don't know what we know"

and

3 - "It is just sooooo hard to be us"

Your post refers to the A9's use of all of these these A9 excuse chants - to some degree or another.....and we've all heard them time and again over the last 5 years.

Those excuses are DONE

If the November 11 Scoundrels used such excuses, we would be up in arms.
Hell, when they have used them - we were up in arms.....so that is not even a debatable point.

And yet, we - time and again - accept them from those folks who DIRECTLY speak for us......and that is even worse.
We need to be consistent in holding ALL fiduciaries to at least the same minimum standards.
It we do not......shame on us.

That's how I feel about it.....and I didn't (and I won't) even go through chapter and verse of how they PERSONALLY stabbed so many in the back throughout this process - - - - but I think you know those people as well as I do.

Anyway.

I wouldn't have bothered to spend these few minutes if I didn't have respect and admiration for all the work you have done.
But this situation is simply too damn important to let lie - IMO......and there are decisions we must now make.....
SO THIS IS NOT SOME ACADEMIC EXERCISE:

We need to determine if WE are going to shrug our shoulders, and let our expectations of fiduciary duty be "fungible" (that is a nice way of asking whether or not we will be hypocrites)
or
Will we DEMAND that those folks who act in our name behave appropriately - - - and, if they don't, engage in OUR duty to replace them with those who will
That is the decision WE face.

And it is a fact

And no amount of hand waving will change it.




In advance, let me say, I'm sorry.
The A9 believes that they are there for Joe Paterno. That's it.
 
Sadly so many will demand & push for the truth even if this is so. What happened happened, it won't again, what's the point? Oh yes, it's to rehab the football program and it's legendary coach. Everyone mad at the A9 is strictly all about football.

Yes dipshit it will happen again. That IS the point.
 
First, I am sorry for not posting last night.

Second, I want all of you to know that I understand, better than most, your disappointment and frustration.

Third, I know you would like to understand the thinking that supported our decision to vote as we did. So I will try to explain this to you.

The process for the election of Chair and Vice Chair provides for an opportunity during the Executive Session, in this case yesterday morning, for the candidates to make remarks and for the Board to ask questions of those candidates. This in fact what happened. The issues raised by many on this Board were raised and discussed. The

We know we are elected by the alumni and we make decisions based on what we believe is in the best interests of OUR school, always considering the impact of these decisions on the alumni.

That brings me to our decision in the elections yesterday.

We have much work to finish. My fervent belief is that our decision yesterday got us closer to the completion of that work. We'll know soon enough.

As I told Ira, now he has to earn it.

For some of you, my explanation will not suffice. I know some of you feel your elected Trustees failed you. I am truly sorry if that's the case.

For the past 4 1/2 years I have spend more time on Penn State working to correct what I feel is a false narrative than anything else in my life. I know many of you have been working equally hard. So I do feel your pain.

I told you from the outset that OUR strength is in OUR numbers and that the tortoise won the race.

Please don't give up. Some think they can divide and conquer the alumni. Let's prove them wrong.


With all respect, it's not that your 'explanation will not suffice'. For me at least, it's that I still don't know what your explanation actually is.
 
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Sorry but you had one of the A9 saying that his top priority was honoring Joe Paterno. I mean... how pathetic is that? We have real issues that need to be addressed for our current students and faculty, and his top priority is Paterno. Amazing.

http://brownforpennstate.com/?page_id=318

Don't be sorry about being wrong
You're just wrong .. I think you need to understand symbolism a bit better and then maybe you won't be so wrong all the time
 
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Don't be sorry about being wrong
You're just wrong .. I think you need to understand symbolism a bit better and then maybe you won't be so wrong all the time
I know that if he cared about the people currently at PSU, he wouldn't have a dead former coach as his top priority.
 
Sorry but you had one of the A9 saying that his top priority was honoring Joe Paterno. I mean... how pathetic is that? We have real issues that need to be addressed for our current students and faculty, and his top priority is Paterno. Amazing.

http://brownforpennstate.com/?page_id=318

Again, you blithering, obfuscating piece-of-$hit, the party you are referencing was railing against the corrupt OG BOT and our corrupt PA Govt using innocent parties such as the PSU Football Program (which happened to be headed by JVP) as FALL GUYS to throw under the bus to save their own rotten, worthless, self-interested hides! It doesn't get any more COWARDLY and BAD CULTURE than that you steaming pile of human excrement!
 
I know that if he cared about the people currently at PSU, he wouldn't have a dead former coach as his top priority.

I don't agree - it's not about a dead football coach

It's about a man who had a large part in shaping what this university is - what WE ARE stands for.

It's about a man who did what he should have and was targeted because he was a "football coach" and others were jealous that "just a football coach" could have such a large impact on an Educational Institution.

It's about a man who put academics ABOVE athletics

No he wasn't perfect, but he helped shape us-ALL of us-not just us as football "fans" or the players themselves.
 
joe-paterno.jpg
 
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I don't agree - it's not about a dead football coach

It's about a man who had a large part in shaping what this university is - what WE ARE stands for.

It's about a man who did what he should have and was targeted because he was a "football coach" and others were jealous that "just a football coach" could have such a large impact on an Educational Institution.

It's about a man who put academics ABOVE athletics

No he wasn't perfect, but he helped shape us-ALL of us-not just us as football "fans" or the players themselves.

Please don't focus on restoring a statue, etc. That's the shiny object that can be used as the distraction. That might be what the OG will offer to mollify the insurgents. That is not sufficient.
Joe himself said pursue the truth, the whole truth.
That is what will ultimately serve both Joe and the university the best. The rest will follow.
 
Again, you blithering, obfuscating piece-of-$hit, the party you are referencing was railing against the corrupt OG BOT and our corrupt PA Govt using innocent parties such as the PSU Football Program (which happened to be headed by JVP) as FALL GUYS to throw under the bus to save their own rotten, worthless, self-interested hides! It doesn't get any more COWARDLY and BAD CULTURE than that you steaming pile of human excrement!
The fact is that we don't know what happened and who know what. We likely never will. We now have allegations that other coaches knew/saw things. Yes, there is plausible deniability there and I personally am not saying that those coaches knew anything, but only they know the truth and they certainly aren't going to admit it if they did. Because it's impossible to know what is accurate and what is not, the only logical thing is to move on. Let the legal system deal with certain people and that will be that.
 
I don't agree - it's not about a dead football coach

It's about a man who had a large part in shaping what this university is - what WE ARE stands for.

It's about a man who did what he should have and was targeted because he was a "football coach" and others were jealous that "just a football coach" could have such a large impact on an Educational Institution.

It's about a man who put academics ABOVE athletics

No he wasn't perfect, but he helped shape us-ALL of us-not just us as football "fans" or the players themselves.
I understand that people love Joe, but it does nothing for the future of PSU.
 
Jim -

As I am sure you are aware, I think your take on this is wrong.....so I won't try to parse words about that.
I also am sure that you are one of the many folks who has devoted a lot of time, energy, blood, sweat and tears to the right causes. If that were not the case, I wouldn't much care what you thought about this situation.
So - and I don't mean to start a pissing match - but I speak bluntly and directly (its the only way I know how to be) and I hope you know me well enough to not take it as some kind attack against you - - - but rather a outlining of the situation.

With that - at risk of offending - I will reply:
_____________


While I don't like to classify this issue as a "battle", I will use your term for consistency

The "battle" is to be proper fiduciaries for the University:

For years now - not just on July 22, 2016 - the majority of our A9 have acted as if they don't even know that THAT is the battle. And that is very discouraging.
I could go into a dissertation on those issues, but that can be for another time - - - since I have outlined numerous issues, repeatedly, in the past.

The "fight" we faced was whether to support Ira Lubert as Chairperson. Engaging in that "battle" IS NOT AN OPTION, it is a DUTY.
We (through our elected reps) are REQUIRED to engage in that battle.
In this case, this battle - selecting a Chairman - is not only a DUTY, it is either the #1 or #2 MOST important battle for any Board of governance member (the other option is the selection of the President/CEO).

That is a fact.....and no amount of "hand waving" can change that.

The "advantage" (and, again, I don't really like that term, but I'll mimic it) to be gained - or LOST - is the advantage of either being a proper steward, or not.

Failure to be a proper steward is a very, very, very, costly FAIL. It rips any shred or credibility or standing, or - if one wants to use this phrase - "moral high ground" from those who fail in that duty.

1- We, all of US, through our proxies, FAILED. Miserably.
2 - We failed in as awful a way possible.
3 - We threw full, unanimous support behind the single WORST possible option....and we KNEW what an awful decision it was - we all know that for a fact - there is no "pleading of ignorance" option here .
4 - We, through our proxies, gave unanimous support to Ira Lubert.

Those are the facts. They are incontrovertible and indelible.

From this day forward, WE, through our proxies, gave a shining stamp of approval to every action Lubert has ever undertaken on the Board, and every action he ever will take.
How awful is that?

We can try to circle-jerk around that. But that is the fact - - - and everyone - media folks, politicos, etc - now has EVERY right to hold us to that action.
Though I am sure many among us will bitch, moan, and complain to all of those entities when we are called out on it. Our bitches will be misdirected - - - the A9 established those facts for us.

We did it
It is on record
and
There is no denying it

And, once again, no amount of "hand waving" can ever change that fact.

The idea that we "put Lubert on the spot" couldn't be any more "untrue".
The idea that you put someone on the spot by having nothing but public praise expressed, and providing unanimous support via the votes....is ludicrous
(Anthony's "we will expect you to be a great leader" was nonsense....or any other "backroom-super-secret-information.....and most certainly doesn't put Lubert on anything close to "the spot")

In fact, if OUR proxies voted in the most directly violative way possibly with respect to our concerns, in the most important aspect of carrying out their fiduciary duties, and we are not even privy to "why"....then it only adds another layer to the failure - it does not excuse it.
We would be FURIOUS if the Nov 2011 Scoundrels acted even 1/2 so poorly.

Further, If we are somehow to believe that Ira Lubert - out of some sense of honor - will somehow change his spots........now that he has been given full, unanimous control....we are beyond stupid.

The three time-worn excuses of the A9...when they fail time and again to act as proper fiduciaries:

1 - "We are a minority, and we will just be out-voted anyway......so we just went along for expediencies sake"

2 - "We are working behind the scenes.....you don't know what we know"

and

3 - "It is just sooooo hard to be us"

Your post refers to the A9's use of all of these these A9 excuse chants - to some degree or another.....and we've all heard them time and again over the last 5 years.

Those excuses are DONE

If the November 11 Scoundrels used such excuses, we would be up in arms.
Hell, when they have used them - we were up in arms.....so that is not even a debatable point.

And yet, we - time and again - accept them from those folks who DIRECTLY speak for us......and that is even worse.
We need to be consistent in holding ALL fiduciaries to at least the same minimum standards.
It we do not......shame on us.

That's how I feel about it.....and I didn't (and I won't) even go through chapter and verse of how they PERSONALLY stabbed so many in the back throughout this process - - - - but I think you know those people as well as I do.

Anyway.

I wouldn't have bothered to spend these few minutes if I didn't have respect and admiration for all the work you have done.
But this situation is simply too damn important to let lie - IMO......and there are decisions we must now make.....
SO THIS IS NOT SOME ACADEMIC EXERCISE:

We need to determine if WE are going to shrug our shoulders, and let our expectations of fiduciary duty be "fungible" (that is a nice way of asking whether or not we will be hypocrites)
or
Will we DEMAND that those folks who act in our name behave appropriately - - - and, if they don't, engage in OUR duty to replace them with those who will
That is the decision WE face.

And it is a fact

And no amount of hand waving will change it.




In advance, let me say, I'm sorry.

StinkStankStunk,

Thank you for your passion on the subject and taking the time to reply. A vote for another candidate (or an abstention since the other candidate seems to have withdrawn) may have been a better strategy. I (and many others) spent considerable efforts lobbying for a different result. I certainly wish there was a different chair (and in particular a different vice chair as well). I don't know why the A9 chose this path - I made some guesses in my prior post - and my belief is they had solid reasoning behind their choice based on information you and I don't have. But this is all to be seen.

I'm choosing to continue to support reform efforts including those efforts by the A9 since I think that is the best path forward given where we are today. We will all see how this transpires over the next year and we will have an opportunity to choose the same or different alumni representatives next year depending upon how this works out. Until then, I believe remaining cohesive in calling for reform and supporting our existing candidates is our best path forward. Others obviously believe differently and are expressing their passion and frustration here. What is encouraging to me is that the passion for reform is still strong (as evidenced in your note and many others.)

As Franco said, "We have no deadline...and we are coming."

Jim
 
Disagree. In order for the university to truly heal and move on to a prosperous future, the BoT needs to make peace with the majority of alumni...rectifying the treatment of Joe and Sue Paterno is an integral part of making that peace.
I think you are vastly overestimating how integral that is to most alumni. Consider that the majority of alumni don't even care about football. In 2004, less than 5% of eligible alumni voted in the BOT election. This year, the percentage dropped well under 4%. The passion shows up here because it is a football message board, but that's about it. It certainly doesn't show up in the current student population.
 
I think you are vastly overestimating how integral that is to most alumni. Consider that the majority of alumni don't even care about football. In 2004, less than 5% of eligible alumni voted in the BOT election. This year, the percentage dropped well under 4%. The passion shows up here because it is a football message board, but that's about it. It certainly doesn't show up in the current student population.

The influence of Joe and Sue Paterno on Penn State extended well beyond football.

Passionate alumni who vote in BoT elections, are involved with the university, and most importantly donate $$$, care about this issue.

Current students' opinions aren't relevant to this discussion.
 
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So please tell me where the truth will come from that will 100 percent change the public perception on Joe Paterno and the others involved in this. Engage in actual discussion instead of just typing whatever insult pops into your head first.

This isn't about changing public perception. It's about righting a wrong so the university as a whole can move on together.
 
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This isn't about changing public perception. It's about righting a wrong so the university as a whole can move on together.

The "wrong" is JVP. So what is the goal here? Another statute? Name on the stadium? Public apology for something?

An apology is not going to happen. Ever. There is too much public disdain and anger. The University can't come out apologize for acting to change leadership, especially in light of the 71 and 76 allegations. That would be disrespecting the victims and will never, ever, happen.

Its also unlikely, in light of the 71 and 76 allegations (and who knows what else is to come in the pending lawsuits), that any ceremony or statue will be forthcoming. Maybe much later, when the criminal trials are over, the civil lawsuits are done, and the dust has settled. But the likelihood of anything happening before then is slim to none.

Which begs the question, what is the point of all this bitterness and divisiveness continuing now? Nothing can happen until the litigation is over.
 
StinkStankStunk,

Thank you for your passion on the subject and taking the time to reply. A vote for another candidate (or an abstention since the other candidate seems to have withdrawn) may have been a better strategy. I (and many others) spent considerable efforts lobbying for a different result. I certainly wish there was a different chair (and in particular a different vice chair as well). I don't know why the A9 chose this path - I made some guesses in my prior post - and my belief is they had solid reasoning behind their choice based on information you and I don't have. But this is all to be seen.

I'm choosing to continue to support reform efforts including those efforts by the A9 since I think that is the best path forward given where we are today. We will all see how this transpires over the next year and we will have an opportunity to choose the same or different alumni representatives next year depending upon how this works out. Until then, I believe remaining cohesive in calling for reform and supporting our existing candidates is our best path forward. Others obviously believe differently and are expressing their passion and frustration here. What is encouraging to me is that the passion for reform is still strong (as evidenced in your note and many others.)

As Franco said, "We have no deadline...and we are coming."

Jim
I'll support those who are a positive influence for proper governance

Reform efforts are necessary (critical, really).
In the meantime - and to further that cause - the A9 have a duty to behave as proper stewards

They have failed - repeatedly - in that effort. Dismally......and never more so than on July 22 (I am not sure I could conceive of a way that they COULD HAVE failed any more miserably)

The existing members of the A9 - simply and clearly - are not a positive influence for proper governance
I don't think that could be more clear
Being "better than the pond scum Scoundrels" who may have populated the Board before them is not necessarily a "positive influence"........and quite frankly, on the issue of proper governance ( as opposed to the shiny object of "football") I don't know if most of them ARE even any better than the pond scum.....in fact, it is clear that many of them are not

There is one HUGE AND CRITICAL difference between all of the A9 - and everyone else:

WE get to elect - or "un-elect" - them.
That is HUGE

Now......we get to see what WE really stand for.

Early indications are..........."inconclusive".
 
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The "wrong" is JVP. So what is the goal here? Another statute? Name on the stadium? Public apology for something?

An apology is not going to happen. Ever. There is too much public disdain and anger. The University can't come out apologize for acting to change leadership, especially in light of the 71 and 76 allegations. That would be disrespecting the victims and will never, ever, happen.

Its also unlikely, in light of the 71 and 76 allegations (and who knows what else is to come in the pending lawsuits), that any ceremony or statue will be forthcoming. Maybe much later, when the criminal trials are over, the civil lawsuits are done, and the dust has settled. But the likelihood of anything happening before then is slim to none.

Which begs the question, what is the point of all this bitterness and divisiveness continuing now? Nothing can happen until the litigation is over.


An apology will come. But not until the Paterno suit is over. Then these assholes will be falling all over themselves to see who can apologize first.
 
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An apology will come. But not until the Paterno suit is over. Then these assholes will be falling all over themselves to see who can apologize first.
And if that happens...........WhoTF cares?

An insincere apology from the guy who raped your Mother is worth what, exactly?
 
Yeah, there will. You BOT-bots have been wrong about everything else so far, and you'll be wrong about this, as well. The wins are back, the sanctions are gone, and they haven't dared to melt the statue. It's only a matter of time, and we have all the time in the world.
 
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It's not about giving up, it's about focusing on PSU's future. At the end of the day, all of this anger on the board comes from the fallout to Paterno during this scandal.

No, it doesn't. It's anger at the BOT for selling the alums down the river by blindly accepting the NCAA's verdict that it was our "culture" that caused this. It's anger at the BOT for failure to exercise proper fiduciary responsibilities. It's frustration at a BOT and now an Alumni Association that is controlled by a small cabal of elitist insiders. We are fighting for the future and honor of our alma mater.
 
The "wrong" is JVP. So what is the goal here? Another statute? Name on the stadium? Public apology for something?

An apology is not going to happen. Ever. There is too much public disdain and anger. The University can't come out apologize for acting to change leadership, especially in light of the 71 and 76 allegations. That would be disrespecting the victims and will never, ever, happen.

Its also unlikely, in light of the 71 and 76 allegations (and who knows what else is to come in the pending lawsuits), that any ceremony or statue will be forthcoming. Maybe much later, when the criminal trials are over, the civil lawsuits are done, and the dust has settled. But the likelihood of anything happening before then is slim to none.

Which begs the question, what is the point of all this bitterness and divisiveness continuing now? Nothing can happen until the litigation is over.

Elmo, when will we find out what really happened in 1998?
 
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The "wrong" is JVP. So what is the goal here? Another statute? Name on the stadium? Public apology for something?

An apology is not going to happen. Ever. There is too much public disdain and anger. The University can't come out apologize for acting to change leadership, especially in light of the 71 and 76 allegations. That would be disrespecting the victims and will never, ever, happen.

Its also unlikely, in light of the 71 and 76 allegations (and who knows what else is to come in the pending lawsuits), that any ceremony or statue will be forthcoming. Maybe much later, when the criminal trials are over, the civil lawsuits are done, and the dust has settled. But the likelihood of anything happening before then is slim to none.

Which begs the question, what is the point of all this bitterness and divisiveness continuing now? Nothing can happen until the litigation is over.

You mention the 71 and 76 "victims" twice to make your point, which just demonstrates how weak your point is.
 
Yeah, there will. You BOT-bots have been wrong about everything else so far, and you'll be wrong about this, as well. The wins are back, the sanctions are gone, and they haven't dared to melt the statue. It's only a matter of time, and we have all the time in the world.

No there will not be. As soon as any trials are done are charges dropped, all OAG information will be in public domain .

There's no apology on the way, it's only getting worse .
 
Yeah, there will. You BOT-bots have been wrong about everything else so far, and you'll be wrong about this, as well. The wins are back, the sanctions are gone, and they haven't dared to melt the statue. It's only a matter of time, and we have all the time in the world.


The sanctions and wins aren't the issue . The issue is what psu people knew when. And I'm no BOT toadie. Just someone who isn't blinded by fandom.
 
No there will not be. As soon as any trials are done are charges dropped, all OAG information will be in public domain .

There's no apology on the way, it's only getting worse .
That's hilarious. If the OAG information was so damning there would have been a trial by now. When the charges are dropped C/S/S will finally be free to tell their version of events which is something the OAG never wanted to happen.
 
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If we never know what the truth is, what exactly are we correcting?

Look, we obviously disagree here. I'll summarize my position and you can have the last word if you want it...

First, I believe the truth is out there, at least regarding Joe and the football program. Before he died, Joe stated in multiple forums (including to a GJ) that he did what he felt was right. He stated that the only time he was told of Sandusky's behavior, he followed PSU protocol on the matter. Also, he (valiantly IMO) admitted that with the benefit of hindsight he wished he'd done more. That's all the truth I need. I think that's all the truth many Penn Staters need. We believe in Joe. If others don't, then I respect their feelings.

Just as you are never going to change public perception on this matter, you are never going to change the mind of Paterno supporters (because as you alluded to there is no smoking gun here). Also, you are never going to change the fact that Joe Paterno, Sue Paterno, Jay Paterno, their families, Joe's players...the Paterno mystique itself are a part of Penn State history.

I don't know what exactly can be done to make peace, but for all of those people, I know peace must be made.
 
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