Breaking from Pennlive Curley and Shultz plead guilty.

[PSU2UNC]

It depends on what happens with Spanier and their sentencing.

If they take the stand and answer questions everyone has is that not a win for the commonwealth?

.

By the commonwealth do you mean the OAG? Or do you mean the people of PA?

If the latter, then yes, this could be a win for the general public who wants the truth.

If you mean the Commonwealth (the OAG), then I don't see any way this is a win. Because they either will testify the same way the did previous (which doesn't help the Commonwealth), or they will perjure themselves (based on prior testimony) which also doesn't help the Commonwealth because they become pretty unreliable witnesses, especially given that their more recent testimony was part of a plea deal.

So in my mind that's a lose-lose for the OAG. I honestly don't think the OAG is going to call them as witnesses. Maybe the defense will...

 

[PSU2UNC]

What if Baldwin's testimony had not been struck down by the PASC? Would there have been more incentive to settle earlier? Something to consider...

Baldwin's testimony would not have held up under cross examination. It's good that it was thrown out, but she would have been a nightmare for the OAG on the stand.

 

[21Guns]

23 pages dedicated to two men that are no longer associated with Penn State, and will forever be linked to a child molester.

Not. Worth. It.

 

[BUFFALO LION]

But who was involved in handling 1998? That it the question of the day.

So someone who doesn't call the police when faced with the situation, that person is a bad guy?

The 1998 case was not directed by the University. It was directed, for the most part, by Gricar's office till the State stepped in. According to Schultz. the police worked Independently under the DA.The University did not manage the Investigation at all

It was investigated by the Penn State Police Department, State College Police Department, CYS, the Centre County District Attorney's Office, and DPW.

And Schultz's description of his and Curley's interview with McQueary in 2001 matches up almost exactly with Dranov's, McQueary Sr's, and Allan Meyers's. McQueary said when pressed by Curley and Schultz that Sandusky and the kid were involved in "horseplay and wrestling around". Nothing of a sexual nature was relayed by McQueary.

McQueary is a bad guy not so much because he didn't call the police, but because he is saying something totally different now than he did in 2001. Either that, or everyone BUT him is lying. Including Dranov and Allan Meyers whose stories match up almost to a T.

 

[EPC FAN]

They would not be the first defendants (by a long shot) to plead guilty to something they didn't do because it was prudent risk management.

This plea was essentially equal to pleading guilty to vandalism. In the grand scheme of what they were originally charged with, this is NOTHING. This is a loss for the OAG. There is no other honest way to spin this.

Are you an attorney?

 

[PSU2UNC]

23 pages dedicated to two men that are no longer associated with Penn State, and will forever be linked to a child molester.

Not. Worth. It.

If they aren't associated with Penn State, please tell the media to stop running headlines that say "Penn State Administrators Plead Guilty to Cover Up"

 

[21Guns]

If they aren't associated with Penn State, please tell the media to stop running headlines that say "Penn State Administrators Plead Guilty to Cover Up"

Absolutely. Agreed.

 

[Peetz Pool Boy]

23 pages dedicated to two men that are no longer associated with Penn State, and will forever be linked to a child molester.

Not. Worth. It.

Sorry Guns. The effort is very "worth it". This is how certain of us might get answers.

 

[PSU2UNC]

Are you an attorney?

I am not, but I do not think I am wrong. If an attorney wants to correct anything I have said (from a legal standpoint) I am all ears.

 

[BUFFALO LION]

But STD said it was PSU that shut down Gricar?

And STD is full of complete and total bullsh!+.

Penn State had as much control over Gricar as I do. And being that Gricar is probably no longer with us, I have none.

 

[Stufftodo]

This statement had nothing to do with Paterno - why would you go there ? Interesting

Yes, it did, if you are taking that position, then it applies to everyone that didn't call the police. If McQueary is bad for not calling the police, then Paterno is bad for not calling the police.

That, however, is not my position. I easily can understand both men ending up the chain of command. I don't class either one as being "bad" because of it.

You mean 1998? No one. It was the other way around. Richard Houston and Harrisburg had Lauro shut down Gricar.

DPW cannot "shut down" a district attorney. They have no authority over a DA. A DAcan, solely, make the decision whether or not to prosecute.

And STD is full of complete and total bullsh!+.

Penn State had as much control over Gricar as I do. And being that Gricar is probably no longer with us, I have none.

No, I said that Gricar agreed not to prosecute. That is different. Cosby didn't shut Castor down; the Altoona Johnstown Diocese didn't shut Cambria County down. In both cases, the DA agreed not to prosecute.

 

[elvis63]

Are you an attorney?

Don't know, it's not a loss because they will testify . And what they will say will render any tossed charges irrelevant.
And then there's the other folk that will testify .
So far I've seen mob threats and or payoffs buy forth as the reason for the plea.
Then there's the loss for the OAG theory . Funny loss to cop to a high level misdemeanor with no deal .
And I'm probably missing some. Lots of cool theories for something few saw coming.
Next week maybe it'll be russian hackers or is that the CIA ? Tune in next week.....

 

[Connorpozlee]

Yes, it did, if you are taking that position, then it applies to everyone that didn't call the police. If McQueary is bad for not calling the police, then Paterno is bad for not calling the police.

That, however, is not my position. I easily can understand both men ending up the chain of command. I don't class either one as being "bad" because of it.



DPW cannot "shut down" a district attorney. They have no authority over a DA. A DAcan, solely, make the decision whether or not to prosecute.

McQueary is absolutely the most to blame for Sandusky's freedom that allowed him to continue to abuse children for years afterwards. No reasonable person would argue otherwise.

 

[colt21]

Yes, it did, if you are taking that position, then it applies to everyone that didn't call the police. If McQueary is bad for not calling the police, then Paterno is bad for not calling the police.

That, however, is not my position. I easily can understand both men ending up the chain of command. I don't class either one as being "bad" because of it.

Paterno did exactly what he should have with that information in his role at that time -
- changes to NCAA procedures actually validate that

But you can't say the same for MM- his mistakes had everything to do with his role at the time - being the "eye-witness"
-keep in mind that the changes to the CPSL all point to the fact that MMs actions were wrong and those same changes would hang him at the stake if he took the same action today - kind of telling don't you think?

 

[Stufftodo]

And STD is full of complete and total bullsh!+.

Penn State had as much control over Gricar as I do. And being that Gricar is probably no longer with us, I have none.

McQueary is absolutely the most to blame for Sandusky's freedom that allowed him to continue to abuse children for years afterwards. No reasonable person would argue otherwise.

Then you must argue that Paterno was bad and just as responsible. You can't have it both ways; they both did the same thing, reporting up the chain of command.

Both acted appropriately.

 

[royboy]

Yes, it did, if you are taking that position, then it applies to everyone that didn't call the police. If McQueary is bad for not calling the police, then Paterno is bad for not calling the police.

That, however, is not my position. I easily can understand both men ending up the chain of command. I don't class either one as being "bad" because of it.



DPW cannot "shut down" a district attorney. They have no authority over a DA. A DAcan, solely, make the decision whether or not to prosecute.

Red herring. False equivalence. You can't equate the actual witness (McQueary) with someone to whom he reported an incident.

 

[Stufftodo]

Paterno did exactly what he should have with that information in his role at that time -
- changes to NCAA procedures actually validate that

But you can't say the same for MM- his mistakes had everything to do with his role at the time - being the "eye-witness"
-keep in mind that the changes to the CPSL all point to the fact that MMs actions were wrong and those same changes would hang him at the stake if he took the same action today - kind of telling don't you think?

They did the same thing, and both acted in accordance with the law; if McQueary failed, Paterno failed equally.

Red herring. False equivalence. You can't equate the actual witness (McQueary) with someone to whom he reported an incident.

Who told you that? McQueary did what he was required to do under the law at the time; so did Paterno. There is no difference. That was reason neither was charged.

BTW: here is the Error message that Royal Jackass think exists:

BlueWhiteIllustrated.com - Error
As a free user, there is a limit to how many messages you can post at once. Please wait a while and try again or pay for a subscription!

 

[elvis63]

McQueary is absolutely the most to blame for Sandusky's freedom that allowed him to continue to abuse children for years afterwards. No reasonable person would argue otherwise.

Yeah they would. Non insane people think that way. Schultz and Curley admitted to obstructing any report of CSA.
They said they did it.

 

[royboy]

Then you must argue that Paterno was bad and just as responsible. You can't have it both ways; they both did the same thing, reporting up the chain of command.

Both acted appropriately.

Repeating this falsehood does not make it true.

The actual witness is different than someone to whom he reported an incident.

 

[BUFFALO LION]

DPW cannot "shut down" a district attorney. They have no authority over a DA. A DAcan, solely, make the decision whether or not to prosecute.

And Penn State can???? What a freakin joke. Gricar didn't give two sh!+s about Penn State.

And if you don't think the State can shut down the DA, just ask Ron Schreffler or Karen Arnold.

 

[colt21]

Then you must argue that Paterno was bad and just as responsible. You can't have it both ways; they both did the same thing, reporting up the chain of command.

Both acted appropriately.

They both had different roles - MM absolutely did NOT act appropriately in his role

Mind you, I'm not a hater of MM-I wouldn't want to be that person
But he did not act appropriately, if he saw what he says he saw, by reporting it up the chain
In fact, the more you believe he actually saw rape, the more inappropriate his action becomes
Additionally,...well I won't get into additionally in this post

 

[elvis63]

McQueary is absolutely the most to blame for Sandusky's freedom that allowed him to continue to abuse children for years afterwards. No reasonable person would argue otherwise.

From the article :

That was part of the deal.

Curley and Schultz, in lengthy colloquies with current case prosecutors Laura Ditka and Patrick Schulte, acknowledged receiving McQueary's report and interfering with or preventing its transmission to police and child welfare officials.

They conceded a legal duty to do that and as a result of that inaction, the men admitted, prosecutors could show Sandusky continued to have access to boys and, in fact, abused another boy in Penn State's football facilities before his eventual arrest in 2011.

How in the hell is to blame if these degenerates refused to report it and they knew he told them if abuse ? For God's sake some of you people are not only stupid , but horrible people.

They admitted to covering this up . Deal with it.

 

[Connorpozlee]

Then you must argue that Paterno was bad and just as responsible. You can't have it both ways; they both did the same thing, reporting up the chain of command.

Both acted appropriately.

You don't believe that.

 

[Lion8286]

From the article :

That was part of the deal.

Curley and Schultz, in lengthy colloquies with current case prosecutors Laura Ditka and Patrick Schulte, acknowledged receiving McQueary's report and interfering with or preventing its transmission to police and child welfare officials.

They conceded a legal duty to do that and as a result of that inaction, the men admitted, prosecutors could show Sandusky continued to have access to boys and, in fact, abused another boy in Penn State's football facilities before his eventual arrest in 2011.

How in the hell is to blame if these degenerates refused to report it and they knew he told them if abuse ? For God's sake some of you people are not only stupid , but horrible people.

They admitted to covering this up . Deal with it.

It's like reading F. Lee Bailey. Elvis is a legal genius!!

 

[Connorpozlee]

From the article :

That was part of the deal.

Curley and Schultz, in lengthy colloquies with current case prosecutors Laura Ditka and Patrick Schulte, acknowledged receiving McQueary's report and interfering with or preventing its transmission to police and child welfare officials.

They conceded a legal duty to do that and as a result of that inaction, the men admitted, prosecutors could show Sandusky continued to have access to boys and, in fact, abused another boy in Penn State's football facilities before his eventual arrest in 2011.

How in the hell is to blame if these degenerates refused to report it and they knew he told them if abuse ? For God's sake some of you people are not only stupid , but horrible people.

They admitted to covering this up . Deal with it.

And still McQueary saw it happening, walked home and told his daddy. If he calls the police on the spot- when the abuser and the victim are on the premises- that is it. His failure to do is what allowed a cover up or an interference to occur. He screwed up.

 

[BUFFALO LION]

From the article :

That was part of the deal.

Curley and Schultz, in lengthy colloquies with current case prosecutors Laura Ditka and Patrick Schulte, acknowledged receiving McQueary's report and interfering with or preventing its transmission to police and child welfare officials.

They conceded a legal duty to do that and as a result of that inaction, the men admitted, prosecutors could show Sandusky continued to have access to boys and, in fact, abused another boy in Penn State's football facilities before his eventual arrest in 2011.

How in the hell is to blame if these degenerates refused to report it and they knew he told them if abuse ? For God's sake some of you people are not only stupid , but horrible people.

They admitted to covering this up . Deal with it.

I've learned to "deal with" things after I've actually read the transcripts. Not after I've heard the jury poisoning spin from the prosecution.

 

[elvis63]

And still McQueary saw it happening, walked home and told his daddy. If calls the police on the spot- when the abuser and the victim are on the premises- that is it. His failure to do is what allowed a cover up or an interference to occur. He screwed up.

You're a moron, you think it would have mattered ? The fix was in you fool , they admitted it. It was easy for these horrible men to call Harmon and they didn't .

They admitted to it.

 

[Connorpozlee]

Yeah they would. Non insane people think that way. Schultz and Curley admitted to obstructing any report of CSA.
They said they did it.

You're purposely missing the point. If McQueary handles it properly at the moment it was occurring nobody else has to be involved besides the police.

 

[PSU2UNC]

Yeah they would. Non insane people think that way. Schultz and Curley admitted to obstructing any report of CSA.
They said they did it.

Yes, that's how a plea works. Do you honestly think no one ever pleads guilty to a crime they didn't commit because it is the smart thing to do?

 

[elvis63]

I've learned to "deal with" things after I've actually read the transcripts. Not after I've heard the jury poisoning spin from the prosecution.

You also need help. These guys admitted to a cover up. Deal with it. You can't spin this anymore .

 

[elvis63]

You're purposely missing the point. If McQueary handles it properly at the moment it was occurring nobody else has to be involved besides the police.

Harmon was the police . You have no point .

 

[Stufftodo]

Repeating this falsehood does not make it true.

The actual witness is different than someone to whom he reported an incident.

Legally, it is identical.

They both had different roles - MM absolutely did NOT act appropriately in his role

Mind you, I'm not a hater of MM-I wouldn't want to be that person
But he did not act appropriately, if he saw what he says he saw, by reporting it up the chain
In fact, the more you believe he actually saw rape, the more inappropriate his action becomes
Additionally,...well I won't get into additionally in this post

I hate neither McQueary nor Paterno. They both acted in accordance with the law; neither was found to have committed a crime. That is appropriate. This is not a moral judgment for either, because I refuse to make moral judgments in this case.

You don't believe that.

Yes, I do.

 

[Connorpozlee]

You're a moron, you think it would have mattered ? The fix was in you fool , they admitted it. It was easy for these horrible men to call Harmon and they didn't .

They admitted to it.

Again, purposely ignoring the point. There is no fix by Curley and Schultz if Curley and Schultz aren't brought into it. He should have called the police.
I see a kid being molested in a shower at work after hours, I don't go home and tell daddy, then follow the chain of command as if I witnessed a co-worker lifting a spare box of paper clips. I call the police.

 

[elvis63]

Yes, that's how a plea works. Do you honestly think no one ever pleads guilty to a crime they didn't commit because it is the smart thing to do?

They admitted what they did and they are testifying to what they did next week .

I know how pleas work. They will clarify what they did . Gladly with hope their sentence is lenient .

 

[Peetz Pool Boy]

From the article :

That was part of the deal.

Curley and Schultz, in lengthy colloquies with current case prosecutors Laura Ditka and Patrick Schulte, acknowledged receiving McQueary's report and interfering with or preventing its transmission to police and child welfare officials.

They conceded a legal duty to do that and as a result of that inaction, the men admitted, prosecutors could show Sandusky continued to have access to boys and, in fact, abused another boy in Penn State's football facilities before his eventual arrest in 2011.

How in the hell is to blame if these degenerates refused to report it and they knew he told them if abuse ? For God's sake some of you people are not only stupid , but horrible people.

They admitted to covering this up . Deal with it.

So irondoc,

What is the reason for your deep-seated hatred of PSU?

 

[BUFFALO LION]

You're a moron, you think it would have mattered ? The fix was in you fool , they admitted it. It was easy for these horrible men to call Harmon and they didn't .

They admitted to it.

Weren't you one of the two guys, along with Towney, that has been bragging that it WAS reported to Harmon, and he lied? Or is that someone else? Apologies if it was someone else.

 

[Connorpozlee]

Harmon was the police . You have no point .

Explain that to me.

 

[jim cummings]

 

[Corabi94]

Paterno did exactly what he should have with that information in his role at that time -
- changes to NCAA procedures actually validate that

But you can't say the same for MM- his mistakes had everything to do with his role at the time - being the "eye-witness"
-keep in mind that the changes to the CPSL all point to the fact that MMs actions were wrong and those same changes would hang him at the stake if he took the same action today - kind of telling don't you think?

There was nothing preventing Paterno from telling MM he should call the police.

 

[Lion8286]

There was nothing preventing Paterno from telling MM he should call the police.

There was nothing preventing MM from calling the police himself.