Your attack has jack shit to do with the topic. Stay on topic or get the hell off the thread.
Breaking from Pennlive Curley and Shultz plead guilty.
- Thread starter OXLion
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Your attack has jack shit to do with the topic. Stay on topic or get the hell off the thread.
Imagine that... the two Centre County natives..... plead guilt and will testify at the Spanier hearing.
Does this surprise anyone. It will be interesting to see what they claim they told Spanier and if there is documentation of who told who what and when. I am all ears.
Does this surprise anyone. It will be interesting to see what they claim they told Spanier and if there is documentation of who told who what and when. I am all ears.
Some thoughts of a prosecutor who has followed this case, but has not lived this case as some of you have.
1. Plea deals often don't occur until the last minute, a common saying, is that defendant's don't feel inclined to plead until they see the white's of the jury's eyes....
2. The prosecution dropping a felony to a misdemeanor is a big deal, especially in a case as famous/infamous as this. It usually means one of the following things:
a) Prosecution didn't like it's chances or
b) Prosecution needed these two to testify against Spanier or
c) Both of the above
3. Prosecutors do not reduce felonies to misdemeanors lightly under most cases, especially a case like this....
4. Of course there is a plea deal.. The Judge only has to sign off on it if he so chooses. If the judge does not end up accepting the plea deal, the charges go back to the way they were and a trial still could be had. Then again, the Prosecutors could then just dismiss.
5. Assuming there is indeed a plea deal, if the trial with Spanier goes forward, we will know the details. Any such plea agreement would have to be given to the defense for cross examination purposes.
6. There is no way that Harmon wasn't informed in 2001 of the current incident (just based on my experience). I have never met a Chief of Police that would just turn over the 98 incident and not ask anymore questions...
7. I do not think the administrators conspired to endanger children. However, they should have just called the police. It was stupid not to. I know that Sandusky was not prosecuted in 98, but assuming knowledge of the investigation, they should have had the incident investigated.
8. With Spanier's education in the subject, Spanier really should have been vigilant.
9. I would hate to have my fate rest in a jury's or judge's hands as well.
10. Finally, I hope Spanier's case goes to trial, I would like to hear as much information as I can.
1. Plea deals often don't occur until the last minute, a common saying, is that defendant's don't feel inclined to plead until they see the white's of the jury's eyes....
2. The prosecution dropping a felony to a misdemeanor is a big deal, especially in a case as famous/infamous as this. It usually means one of the following things:
a) Prosecution didn't like it's chances or
b) Prosecution needed these two to testify against Spanier or
c) Both of the above
3. Prosecutors do not reduce felonies to misdemeanors lightly under most cases, especially a case like this....
4. Of course there is a plea deal.. The Judge only has to sign off on it if he so chooses. If the judge does not end up accepting the plea deal, the charges go back to the way they were and a trial still could be had. Then again, the Prosecutors could then just dismiss.
5. Assuming there is indeed a plea deal, if the trial with Spanier goes forward, we will know the details. Any such plea agreement would have to be given to the defense for cross examination purposes.
6. There is no way that Harmon wasn't informed in 2001 of the current incident (just based on my experience). I have never met a Chief of Police that would just turn over the 98 incident and not ask anymore questions...
7. I do not think the administrators conspired to endanger children. However, they should have just called the police. It was stupid not to. I know that Sandusky was not prosecuted in 98, but assuming knowledge of the investigation, they should have had the incident investigated.
8. With Spanier's education in the subject, Spanier really should have been vigilant.
9. I would hate to have my fate rest in a jury's or judge's hands as well.
10. Finally, I hope Spanier's case goes to trial, I would like to hear as much information as I can.
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what makes you think the truth will remain hidden. that isn't the way a plea agreement works. just like it was mentioned in the penn live article the admins answered questions form the prosecutors and the judge during the hearing today. Just what questions do you think the judge had for them.
Chances are Tim and Gary wouldn't be taking the stand in their own defense and now they will be on the stand. it will probably be real easy to see why they actually took the agreement instead of all the nonsense tinfoil excuses being tossed around today.
What I am saying is: if my suspicion is correct that Curley and Schultz's plea agreement was contingent on their testimony against Spanier at trial, I do not believe that there is a plea agreement on the table for Spanier to take, even if he wanted to take it. If my suspicion is correct, any offer that might have been available to Spanier evaporated this morning.
That was part of the civil suit. Not part of the criminal trial that put Sandusky in jail.
For the record, that one sounds like BS.
Well, I hope you are right about that. It's our last chance for anyone to actually be forced to talk.
I don't think so. He's in way too deep with his libel suit and pending legal action against PSU. If he pleads guilty that all goes away along with the severance package.
Yikes, prove you are innocent?!! Wow, we really have just entered the Twilight Zone. Just remember mich, your willingness to completely ignore perhaps the most significant Constitutional safeguard that we have all because of some bizarre desire to somehow, someway stain Penn State football, and therefore Joe Paterno, the day might come when the same standard is applied to you. "So michnittlion, prove that you did not murder the victim. Unless you can, it's the chair for you."
He wouldn't suffer anywhere near the PR hit that the DA's office does for handing out such a sweet deal. His actions will be justified by DA essentially acknowledging they don't have a great case. And if he weren't willing to take that hit, he wouldn't tell them he would.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm just saying that a judge saying there's no agreement doesn't mean there isn't. The agreement could still be that there's jail time. I doubt it, but it could be. I just don't believe for a second there hasn't at the very least been an express "inclination" given by the judge if they would plea.
That's what they always say. IIRC the state gives a sentencing recommendation in exchange for a guilty plea. Judges can sentence them to the max if they choose.
It rarely happens, but it's possible. Nevin Shapiro, the Miami Ponzi schemer, is only case I can think of where that happened.
Shapiro made a statement before sentencing that didn't sit right with the judge. The idiot said he was only trying to make good on the inflated returns his victims expected. He got the max.
The only thing we know is that the conspiracy charges were dropped. The perjury charges were dropped. The most serious charges are history. Tim and Gary plead guilty to a misdemeanor. A misdemeanor after all of this. After having their pictures displayed next to JS. After Louis Freeh was paid 8.5 million to proclaim that there was a conspiracy of silence for years to protect the football program. A misdemeanor.
What are the "following" things? They seem to have been left out of your post. Thanks.
Cincy, I want to ask you a question that you would know, I think: Why did Gricar try to get Sandusky to admit guilt to that woman, instead of build a case through further witnesses?
BTW: I'm still waiting for the "criminal problem" you think I have.
Cut the bull$hit. PSU was a large, politically powerful, institution. TSM wasn't and it was very dependent on PSU. Sandusky worked for PSU in 1998 and this was the site of the assaults. It was being handled by the PSU police. If you don't undestrand that, then either you've never attended PSU, or are a liar, or a moron. I hope the first is true
Sandusky also had a management role in TSM.
Gricar wouldn't prosecute if Sandusky "received help with the problem." The institution that had the resources to help him was PSU, not TSM.
Cut the bull$hit. PSU was a large, politically powerful, institution. TSM wasn't and it was very dependent on PSU. Sandusky worked for PSU in 1998 and this was the site of the assaults. It was being handled by the PSU police. If you don't undestrand that, then either you've never attended PSU, or are a liar, or a moron. I hope the first is true
Sandusky also had a management role in TSM.
Gricar wouldn't prosecute if Sandusky "received help with the problem." The institution that had the resources to help him was PSU, not TSM.
Part of the old humane approach to Jer Bear I imagine.
Well one wouldn't preclude the other, so if you can get an admission that easily you might as well go for it. No reason that should stop you from trying to build the case otherwise though.
From what I understand it was not illegal. It was an exercise of prosecutorial discretion. A prosecutor is not required to prosecute a case.
That Sandusky was a popular public figure, and associated by the most politically powerful institution in the county. That probably helped with Gricar's decision.
I think we will see that some arrangement was made in 1998. I just don't who the PSU parties were. (I hope it was not Paterno, but I fear that it was.)
My guess everyone is tight lipped until after Spanier's case is resolved and the sentence for Tim and Gary is announced. I believe then we may get some clarity.
Spanier was Corbett's target 6 years ago. If Spanier hadn't squawked about Corbett killing PSU's funding by 50% or whatever he proposed, none of this would have ever touched Penn State. Probably wouldn't have gone anywhere at all. Second Mile was too connected to get touched either way. Penn State and Spanier were the patsies. Joe, Curley, and Schultz were just collateral damage.
Or what, you want to meet in a parking lot so you can grab my junk?
Just pointing out your record of excellence in prognostication. Now how about you shut up?
I don't think you hear a peep from them anymore. They are going to testify or their flipping will put the heat on GS to plea out. After that, none of them will utter a word anymore to be honest. The best chance of hearing what they have to say is if GS actually does go to trial. The odds on that just took a hit today. These guys aren't going to come out after getting a deal and blast the world.
Good point Bayou.
Just to be clear here, in the grand scheme of things, this is a HUGE win for Tim and Gary.
This is a freaking misdemeanor. In case people don't appreciate what that is, here are some other misdemeanors in PA:
Loitering at night time
Open lewdness
Disorderly Conduct
Trespassing
Vandalism
Do people appreciate what small potatoes that charge is in terms of what they were charged with originally? Does that help people to appreciate why they might take the plea (especially if it involves no jail time)? Does it help people to appreciate to what a sham this whole indictment was?
6. There is no way that Harmon wasn't informed in 2001 of the current incident (just based on my experience). I have never met a Chief of Police that would just turn over the 98 incident and not ask anymore questions...
7. I do not think the administrators conspired to endanger children. However, they should have just called the police. It was stupid not to. I know that Sandusky was not prosecuted in 98, but assuming knowledge of the investigation, they should have had the incident investigated.
Relative to above. I agree Harmon knew about 2001. He was the Chief of the Police, correct? So you say they should have called the police, but if Harmon knew, wasn't he the police? I think this all rests at Harmon's feet and no one else's. But he's retired so I guess no one can question him, correct?
I guess when it it PSU, a truthful statement doesn't cut it.
Plural. In 1998 there were two victims, Victim 6 and B.K. B.K. couldn't testify because he was out of the country. That was part of me realizing Sloane was telling the truth. He talked about the "two boy's parents." Ganim's first article only listed one victim , who became Victim 6. B. K. is from the presentment.
See, I told you it would be on the final.
Yeah Bob...good advice. Hearing what you only want to hear is a sure sign you are hunting for the "truth". You may be the biggest GD hypocrite around when it comes to looking for the truth.
OK, listen here you physically and mentally crippled cretin. I "undestrand" perfectly.
How does being large and politically powerful automatically qualify one to help a person with a problem like pedophilia-- of course, I believe at that time the issue was "grooming" was it not? Until John Seasock said it was nothing, correct? So TSM wasn't large, but to say they didnt' have resources to counsel people with psychological problems sort of defeats the purpose of their existence, doesn't it?
Why do you think it's OK to say Penn State and in particular the athletic program has to help Sandusky, while he is still allowed to romp with the hundreds of other potential victims at his victim farm? Are you saying DPW and CYS also signed off on this? If so, that was totally irresponsible on their part. That they would say an investigation was unfounded and no further action needed to be done.
I attended Penn State. I'm highly ashamed of the fact they accepted a loser like you, who definitely is a liar and a moron.
As far as the other thing, there's stories floating around the internet about Jonathan Jacobs being charged with arson. There. There's your answer.
Wasn't the Second Mile licensed by the State of Pennsylvania? Wasn't Raykovitz licensed by the State of Pennsylvania as a qualified Child Psychologist. Wasn't the Second Mile where the NEXT kid would come from? And ALL the other ones after that????? Did Gricar actually think that kid, and every other one to follow were fully enrolled Penn State students???
Why the f-(k is Penn State responsible for an OUTSIDE State Licensed Organization approved and overseen by the State of Pennsylvania??? This makes absolutely no sense.
Fair enough, bad "word play" on my part.
But this is true: after 5 years of delaying and such, Curley and Schultz pled guilty today. G-U-I-L-T-Y, they said so themselves.
Exactly. This is a pattern in the PA corruption network. Over charge people, abuse the GJ process, try your case in the media, then when push comes to shove cop to a few misdemeanors with little to no jail time and act like it's some huge victory. The media paints it as a huge victory and the masses never really look into the details.
You have immense talent for purposely deceiving just shy of the threshold for lying.
