Collegiate Duals 2.0
- Thread starter pish69
- Start date
I am with @js8793 here. I think people routinely underestimate the depth of the field at nationals - including us.
We've been incredibly good at this tournament with our studs over the past decade plus, but when you move beyond the true studs it can often be a crap shoot scoring significant points. In a typical weight class the guy ranked 5th is as likely to score 2 points as he is to score 10. The guys in that range are the ones getting pushed down by the ones that break out at nationals, not the Spencers, Carters, Aarons, RBYs.
We're going to be challenged through Friday early by the top team that has a great tourney that week. It may be Iowa, but it is just as likely to be one of a few others.
exactly. you basically have to place to score meaningful points. for example, a hypothetical team of 10 quarterfinalists who then lose in the bloodround would have finished 25th last year. iowa has a lot of good wrestlers who will be in losable quarters/r12 matches. teske, murin, siebrecht, kennedy, brands, and assad could very reasonably score a combined 12 points or less. then you have woods, warner, and cass who are elite, but not separated from the field. and who knows what version of spencer we see?
i think iowa's floor this year is a lot lower than a lot of hawk fans like me want to believe. i still think they can finish as high as second, but wouldn't be surprised at all if the bottom fell out.
That's why bonus is essential. Like you said, a guy who wins 2 in a winners bracket by decision then slides out scores less than a kid who just yolo throws a kid in wrestlebacks and pins them and then goes 1-2.
Hell, Iowa placed 5th in 2016 off the backs of 3 finalists (Gilman, Clark, Sorensen) and 3 more AAs in Brooks, Meyer, Burak. Depends on other teams do overall, 81 would have been good for 3rd last year. In 2016, it was 5th, 1 point from 4th and 5 from 3rd (MyMar and Snyder both weren't suppose to win and they did that night)
Iowa nearly broke 100 though in 2018 with just 5 AAs due to 30+ bonus. This was with 1 champ and no other finalist level AAs (Sorensen 5, Kem 4, Marinelli 6, Stoll 5)
I like your analogy @js8793 ... a team of quarterfinalist who slides out is 20 points. That's a team of 10 Top 12 wrestlers in theory, that's pretty insane if you think about it, would be a dangerous dual team. Any coach who has that kind of team would be complimented for how well he did developing his wrestlers and building such a deep team.
Now think of it this way, a team of 9 wrestlers like the posters on this board + Aaron Brooks would lose to that team in a dual 54-5 (I think we'd all get pinned probably, I'd fight hard to stay off my back though!) But then our team in theory would outplace that team at NCAAs (Brooks wins for 20 then gets bonus) Hammers + bonus truly lead the way in March.
Now think of it this way, a team of 9 wrestlers like the posters on this board + Aaron Brooks would lose to that team in a dual 54-5 (I think we'd all get pinned probably, I'd fight hard to stay off my back though!) But then our team in theory would outplace that team at NCAAs (Brooks wins for 20 then gets bonus) Hammers + bonus truly lead the way in March.
Might just be me, but Im ok with Iowa doing badly at nationals.......
the funniest thing about this is that Pyles- who I don't like ftr - was kind of right. If they pull their redshirts, they almost certainly win that year. However, if they do that, things get dicey down the road in 2018 with no Zain.
With the benefit of hindsight, if Cael pulls the shirts in 2015 and then redshirts Zain in 2016/2017, they win 9 straight instead of 8/9.
Moral of the story: PYLES SMARTER THAN CAEL
Ill give you a few minutes to collect your thoughts, revise your post and seek treatment for what afflicts you.
He's right in that it was better for that season and it keeps a streak going longer but we lose 18 and 19 then since we don't have Zain in 18 and then no Nolf/Nickal in 2019 (assuming everything else is equal) So he traded 1 for 2.
Cael had his own vision and he was well aware of what he's doing which is why he jokingly asked Pyles if he had his own ideas. It was sarcastic dad talk but Pyles was visibly shaken by the question.
Which one of you would like to have Cael look you in the eye and smirk, "Do you have a plan?" I would make you feel like a kindergarten kid in the principal's office.
I addressed this! You redshirt zain in 2016/2017 when you don't need him. Keep Nickal in redshirt in 2015. Nico, Zain, and Nolf would be enough to win. You don't need Nolf to win in 2019. 9 straight baby!!
Somebody tell the PSU AD that I am willing to take over for half of Cael's salary so you can avoid these amateur mistakes in the future.
Back to collegiate dual talk. SVN vs Paniro…discuss.
perhaps you were on the iowa plan of peaking too early.
fired up for this. great style match up. SVN is a whirling dervish and Paniro is unbelievable defensively and opportunistic.
haven't seen it this year, but rathjen was down 8-0 against paniro before he completely collapsed. rathjen scored 18 unanswered to tech him. maybe SVN can wear him down?
I'll simply say this. When watching TV, it syncs, perfectly. Streaming, my experience, not a chance.
Paniro-Rathjen was all Paniro before he gassed. Found out yesterday that Paniro apparently was diagnosed with some illness last year and has since been able to get the necessary treatment. Has looked far better since.
The hell you say!
Paniro looked like he had a full tank at the end of his match against Murin. That was a match I was waiting to see how his tank holds up especially when you consider the potential adrenaline dump of Carver in that kind of dual.
Also, spoke with Pat Donghia of PSU, gonna try to get some quotes from Cael and others afterward but we’ll see how that goes.
Fellow brethren, what time does everything start? Sorry, been under draft horses all day, buddy had a premie, and helping him out while he's at the hospital.
They had a boy! 4lbs, 11oz. Healthy, 8,weeks early. The little sh&t is named...Augustus, from Lonesome Dove! Boo Yeah!
They had a boy! 4lbs, 11oz. Healthy, 8,weeks early. The little sh&t is named...Augustus, from Lonesome Dove! Boo Yeah!
If your athlete wants to redshirt you take that into account as well regardless of the future.
Thanks, buddy. Been a long day, and getting longer.
Beard over Hoffman 5-3. OSU beat Lehigh 23-12
This one is tough. Love Beard, but Gavin is from my hometown.
Did you feel conflicted last night with Dean versus Cameron Wood? My maternal hometown too.
