Conference Realignment

[BlueBand]

I say alienating our fans because we play games in Iowa and Nebraska.

Our fanbase, despite what people think, is an eastern base. That's why our Dominate the state shirts have Maryland, NJ and PA.

I would guess, other than the above Ohio/Illinois, we have more fans in FL and NC than we do in the rest of the Big Ten areas combined.

No matter what people want us to believe, PSU is comprised of Philly, NJ and NY/DC area people. Not the midwest.

LdN

We haven't played an eastern schedule in over 20 years. How many fans are there left to alienate?

And when we did play an eastern schedule, where were most of the away games? Syracuse, Boston College, Rutgers, WVU, Pitt, Temple and Maryland. On and off with Alabama and Notre Dame. I'm not sure we have alumni clamoring to head to Syracuse and Morgantown. Maybe Boston. If you can believe half the posters on here, Pitt is too far beneath us to play and we have nothing to gain from it.

The rest were patsies at home and the occasional home and home with teams like Iowa, Ohio State, Virginia, NC State, Kentucky, Miami. We rarely played in NC and Florida before (once a decade), so I'm not sure how not playing there now alienates fans.

 

[CF LION]

We haven't played an eastern schedule in over 20 years. How many fans are there left to alienate?

And when we did play an eastern schedule, where were most of the away games? Syracuse, Boston College, Rutgers, WVU, Pitt, Temple and Maryland. On and off with Alabama and Notre Dame. I'm not sure we have alumni clamoring to head to Syracuse and Morgantown. Maybe Boston. If you can believe half the posters on here, Pitt is too far beneath us to play and we have nothing to gain from it.

The rest were patsies at home and the occasional home and home with teams like Iowa, Ohio State, Virginia, NC State, Kentucky, Miami. We rarely played in NC and Florida before (once a decade), so I'm not sure how not playing there now alienates fans.

Would you rather have a November road trip to Michigan/Ohio, or say South Carolina/Florida?

 

[LionDeNittany]

We haven't played an eastern schedule in over 20 years. How many fans are there left to alienate?

And when we did play an eastern schedule, where were most of the away games? Syracuse, Boston College, Rutgers, WVU, Pitt, Temple and Maryland. On and off with Alabama and Notre Dame. I'm not sure we have alumni clamoring to head to Syracuse and Morgantown. Maybe Boston. If you can believe half the posters on here, Pitt is too far beneath us to play and we have nothing to gain from it.

The rest were patsies at home and the occasional home and home with teams like Iowa, Ohio State, Virginia, NC State, Kentucky, Miami. We rarely played in NC and Florida before (once a decade), so I'm not sure how not playing there now alienates fans.

I'll just have to say that I disagree. Our fan base is eastern. Always has been.

People wonder why we are losing fans and the stadium is less full... well this would seem to be an obvious reason.

We play a bunch of patsies now. They are NW, Ill, Purdue, Minnesota just to name a few.

If we must play patsies I'd prefer they be where our fans are located. Rutgers and Maryland are much more exciting "patsy" games IMO than those listed above.

LdN

 

[LafayetteBear]

The PAC 12 takes the two Kansas schools along with Baylor and TTech

Uhh, thanks, but no thanks. At least I know now what you think of the Pac. LOL.

 

[BlueBand]

Would you rather have a November road trip to Michigan/Ohio, or say South Carolina/Florida?

Who says those games get scheduled in November? Would you rather have a September game in South Carolina/Florida, or Michigan/Ohio?

I see you ignored my point about how can we alienate fans by not playing games in places we didn't play games at before.

 

[CF LION]

commissioner

Who says those games get scheduled in November? Would you rather have a September game in South Carolina/Florida, or Michigan/Ohio?

I see you ignored my point about how can we alienate fans by not playing games in places we didn't play games at before.

Not ignoring it, I just don't see how we would alienate that many fans. It would be interesting to see the difference in numbers between alums living in the midwest vs ACC country.

 

[Nitwit]

ISU in the Big Ten is crazy talk. There's no way the conference will have two schools in the same state aside from what already exists. The lone exception would be if Notre Dame joined and that's not going to happen either.

Yeah, Michigan and Michigan State is never going to happen.

 

[Nitwit]

The proper move would be for PSU ND and Maryland to join a new ACC.

Leave Rutgers in the BIG.

Let the BIG pick up Texas and Oklahoma or whatever scraps are left from the Big 12.

The ACC should be pushing hard for this. Sure there are contracts and we make money in the BIG, but we are alienating our fan base each year we are members.

LdN

Noooo - wrestling, WVB, Ice hockey in the ACC? I rather see the B10 pick up one more Eastern team.

 

[NittPicker]

Yeah, Michigan and Michigan State is never going to happen.

C'mon man. If you're not going to read my entire post my bother quoting it??

 

[BlueBand]

Not ignoring it, I just don't see how we would alienate that many fans. It would be interesting to see the difference in numbers between alums living in the midwest vs ACC country.

Ask and ye shall receive.

Excluding Pennsylvania (courtesy of the Alumni Association)

Penn State Alumni in B1G States: 79,268
Penn State Alumni in ACC States: 99,095

Closer than you thought? Now, about that ACC number. It's skewed to some degree by NYC/Westchester/Long Island, which probably makes up a good chunk of the 23,914 in New York State and also by northern Virginia which is adjacent to Washington DC. State of VA has 22,872. People in NYC area can get to Rutgers much easier than Syracuse, and northern VA residents can get to UMD easier than UVA and VTech. Even if you factor in that only affects half of the alumni in those states, that nets the two conferences down to even.

FYI, Florida has 20,600 alumni. But under normal circumstances, they should be going to a local bowl game every other year.

FYI, CA has 19,506 alumni while NC only 11,516. Perhaps we should join the PAC?

Here's what I think is the real issue when it comes to perception: it's not the out-of-state alums, it's the in-state. We used to have away games in Morgantown, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Philadelphia, College Park, New Brunswick/Piscataway--and one or two longer trips. Half of those are gone, with Philly going away too. In the B1G, the road trips are longer. Guess what? Most of the ACC road trips would be longer too. You'd gain Pitt and Syracuse, but lose Rutgers and Maryland. After that, most of the trips extend into mid and southern VA, the Carolinas, GA and FL.

 

[Woodpecker]

Would you rather have a November road trip to Michigan/Ohio, or say South Carolina/Florida?

When is the last time either of those teams played north of the Mason-Dixon line after November 1st?

 

[CF LION]

Ask and ye shall receive.

Excluding Pennsylvania (courtesy of the Alumni Association)

Penn State Alumni in B1G States: 79,268
Penn State Alumni in ACC States: 99,095

Closer than you thought? Now, about that ACC number. It's skewed to some degree by NYC/Westchester/Long Island, which probably makes up a good chunk of the 23,914 in New York State and also by northern Virginia which is adjacent to Washington DC. State of VA has 22,872. People in NYC area can get to Rutgers much easier than Syracuse, and northern VA residents can get to UMD easier than UVA and VTech. Even if you factor in that only affects half of the alumni in those states, that nets the two conferences down to even.

FYI, Florida has 20,600 alumni. But under normal circumstances, they should be going to a local bowl game every other year.

FYI, CA has 19,506 alumni while NC only 11,516. Perhaps we should join the PAC?

Here's what I think is the real issue when it comes to perception: it's not the out-of-state alums, it's the in-state. We used to have away games in Morgantown, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Philadelphia, College Park, New Brunswick/Piscataway--and one or two longer trips. Half of those are gone, with Philly going away too. In the B1G, the road trips are longer. Guess what? Most of the ACC road trips would be longer too. You'd gain Pitt and Syracuse, but lose Rutgers and Maryland. After that, most of the trips extend into mid and southern VA, the Carolinas, GA and FL.

Nice work. So let's stay in the BIG and poach a couple of ACC schools.

 

[T J]

What does Iowa State bring to the table to justify other conference members providing it about $40 million a year in revenue? Does Iowa State bring about $40 million in value to other members? How? A new market? Nope, Iowa is covered by the Hawkeyes. (And Iowa isn't all that lush of a market.) A huge fan/alumni base? no again. A huge TV draw? no.
How does Iowa State make any economic sense for the B1G? Answer: it doesn't and Iowa State to the Big Ten ain't happening.

And the B1G passed on Missouri when Mizzou wanted desparately to join. What has changed to make Missouri an attractive candidate to the B1G? Answer: nothing.

Iowa State is the birthplace of the world’s first electronic digital computer, the ABC, or the Atanosoff, Berry Computer. Named for it's inventors at Iowa State.

Haha... Which makes this blog discussion possible!

Iowa State University also held a patent for a key process used in most Fax Machines and was paid royalties for their innovation when those machines were in wider usage.

COMPUTING HISTORY

The ABC Reconstruction is on display at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California, as part of its exhibit, Revolution: The First 2000 Years of Computing.

The ABC was the first electronic digital computer, responsible for what Gordon Bell calls the "disinvention" of the modern computer, as it nullified John Mauchly's patent on the ENIAC.

Much of Iowa State's John Vincent Atanasoff's original computer design and components are still used in the computers we use every day, including binary numbers and regenerative memory. ​

Electronic exhibition: ABC Computer

Computer architect Gordon Bell has said that the Honeywell vs. Sperry Rand court case is responsible for the "disinvention" of the computer, invalidating the patents on the ENIAC, which was previously thought to be the world's first electronic digital computer.


While attempting to develop a faster method of computation, Iowa State mathematics and physics professor John Vincent Atanasoff conceptualized the basic tenets of what would become the world’s first electronic digital computer, the Atanasoff-Berry Computer (ABC) in 1937. These included the use of a binary system of arithmetic, the separation of computer and memory functions, and regenerative drum memory, among others. The 1939 prototype was constructed with graduate student Clifford Berry in the basement of the Physics Building.[17]

The four ideas that came together were:

1. He would use electricity and electronics as the medium for the computer
2. In spite of custom, he would use base-two numbers for his computer
3. He would use condensors for memory and would use a regenerative or “jogging” process to avoid lapses that might be caused by leakage of power
4. He would compute by direct logical action and not by enumeration (counting) as used in existing analog caculating devices.
   
   
   He spent the next year making plans for his computer, and in March 1939 made a formal application to the college for funding a graduate assistant and for materials. Iowa State College approved a grant for $650. Atanasoff hired Clifford Berry, and they began to construct the prototype for the world’s first electronic digital computer.

========

Iowa State University also held a patent for a key process used in most Fax Machines and was paid royalties for their innovation when those machines were in wider usage.

ISU held the patent for an electronic process used in a class of fax machines that use a system for coding information for conversion into digital form that can be transmitted over telephone lines.​

========

That said...

Iowa State is a good academic research university, but the Big Ten is about expanding its footprint for population and media revenue.

Agree with all of your points about the B1G looking to expand it's footprint to new areas instead of to overlap existing areas.

As such, Iowa State is not a very attractive target for BiG conference expansion.

​

 

[crm114psu]

When is the last time either of those teams played north of the Mason-Dixon line after November 1st?

Why would they? Their entire conference lies below the Mason-Dixon line.

 

[Woodpecker]

Why would they? Their entire conference lies below the Mason-Dixon line.

And the SEC never plays out of conference after November 1st (well, except for the 19 games this year). Florida would never allow a northern team in their conference because they never want to play in football weather.

 

[Nitwit]

C'mon man. If you're not going to read my entire post my bother quoting it??

Sorry, you are correct - aside from already exists.

 

[crm114psu]

And the SEC never plays out of conference after November 1st (well, except for the 19 games this year). Florida would never allow a northern team in their conference because they never want to play in football weather.

It is the Southeastern Conference. Do you expect them to play their late season games in Fargo, Rochester or Buffalo? And just what the hell is "football weather" anyway? You want to bitch about the conditions then be sure to spread it around to the PAC and all the Cali/New Mex/Ariz schools as well.

 

[LafayetteBear]

It is the Southeastern Conference. Do you expect them to play their late season games in Fargo, Rochester or Buffalo? And just what the hell is "football weather" anyway? You want to bitch about the conditions then be sure to spread it around to the PAC and all the Cali/New Mex/Ariz schools as well.

Dude: November games in Salt Lake City, Boulder, and Pullman (WA) can feature some pretty nasty weather.

 

[crm114psu]

Dude: November games in Salt Lake City, Boulder, and Pullman (WA) can feature some pretty nasty weather.

So can the weather in several SEC venues, but some people are rather limited in their knowledge.

 

[BlueBand]

So can the weather in several SEC venues, but some people are rather limited in their knowledge.

Yes, games in September in some locales can be unbearably hot and humid.

The heat and humidity can sap your strength if you're not used to it, and dehydrate you, or get overheated in your uniform. OTOH, cold makes the ball hard to catch, snow reduces visibility, your body diverts blood flow to the internal organs for self preservation, and the ground could be frozen and hard.

Not sure which is worse for players, although the common wisdom is cold is worse.

 

[crm114psu]

Yes, games in September in some locales can be unbearably hot and humid.

The heat and humidity can sap your strength if you're not used to it, and dehydrate you, or get overheated in your uniform. OTOH, cold makes the ball hard to catch, snow reduces visibility, your body diverts blood flow to the internal organs for self preservation, and the ground could be frozen and hard.

Not sure which is worse for players, although the common wisdom is cold is worse.

Extreme weather either way happens a fair amount over the course of a season. Neither extreme makes for a pleasant experience for players or spectators.

 

[LMTLION]

If you think carolina-centric is better than midwest-centric, you are sadly mistaken. It would be the same crap we have now wrapped in different toilet paper. I would be fine staying B1G with a texas expansion but greatly prefer a Virginia expansion.

 

[BlueBand]

If you think carolina-centric is better than midwest-centric, you are sadly mistaken. It would be the same crap we have now wrapped in different toilet paper. I would be fine staying B1G with a texas expansion but greatly prefer a Virginia expansion.

I've been saying the same thing... you think the Carolina Cartel is going to take to some northerners taking over the conference top spot? Plus the B1G is just as good in basketball, and a better fit for our Olympic sports. The ACC excels in sports we tend to suck at, and don't even have some of our better sports. Plus more money in the B1G.

But at least we get warm weather road trips in November (that are too far way to go to).

 

[LMTLION]

I've been saying the same thing... you think the Carolina Cartel is going to take to some northerners taking over the conference top spot? Plus the B1G is just as good in basketball, and a better fit for our Olympic sports. The ACC excels in sports we tend to suck at, and don't even have some of our better sports. Plus more money in the B1G.

But at least we get warm weather road trips in November (that are too far way to go to).

Precisely. And I think the north-south cultural divide may be worse than the east coast/midwest divide.

 

[GoPSU2012]

The ACC would be much worse than the B1G. You honestly think we're going to get better officiating playing at a southern school like Florida State or Clemson? Yeah right. Playing Syracuse, BC, Pitt and UVA on yearly basis doesn't interest me anymore than Rutgers and Maryland. Just because we're in closer proximity doesn't make it appealing. We have no history with Florida State, Clemson, Louisville or any other NC schools I'd choose a home game against Ohio state, Michigan, Nebraska, MSU and Wisconsin any day.

 

[T J]

The proper move would be for PSU ND and Maryland to join a new ACC.

Leave Rutgers in the BIG.

Let the BIG pick up Texas and Oklahoma or whatever scraps are left from the Big 12.

The ACC should be pushing hard for this. Sure there are contracts and we make money in the BIG, but we are alienating our fan base each year we are members.

LdN

Mega money loser.

Can understand some fans want to travel to some areas for games.

But, it's still about total viewers and total paying subscribers who are the basis of the massively successful media deals with Disney/ESPN, FoxSports and CBS, along with the local cable and satellite providers.

The good news for the ACC area is it will likely continue to grow its population.
The bad news for the ACC is, Football pays the bills. The Big Ten locked up a huge percentage of the US viewing population for college sports, especially for college football.

Imho...

 

[gymdad]

I say alienating our fans because we play games in Iowa and Nebraska.

Our fanbase, despite what people think, is an eastern base. That's why our Dominate the state shirts have Maryland, NJ and PA.

I would guess, other than the above Ohio/Illinois, we have more fans in FL and NC than we do in the rest of the Big Ten areas combined.

No matter what people want us to believe, PSU is comprised of Philly, NJ and NY/DC area people. Not the midwest.

LdN

I know you mentioned "fanbase" but on an alumni basis there are almost as many PSU alumni in California and Texas as in Fla and NC.
see http://alumni.psu.edu/about_us/Alumni-Maps.pdf/view

 

[LionDeNittany]

I know you mentioned "fanbase" but on an alumni basis there are almost as many PSU alumni in California and Texas as in Fla and NC.
see http://alumni.psu.edu/about_us/Alumni-Maps.pdf/view

California and Texas are two of the most populous states in the Country. Not sure why you would bring them up it is pointless. There is more of almost anything population related in California than other states.

I'm talking geography. Proximity to Alumni and fanbase centers.

No part of Texas or California would count.

Now, if we played in the ACC, (and brought Maryland back) we would have, within close proximity, most of the PSU fanbase and alumni.

As it stands, our away games are so far away from our fanbase that we are losing fans.

That's my opinion. The fact that you bring up Cali and Texas implies you don't want to have a serious conversation but here's my serious answer anyway.

LdN

 

[LionDeNittany]

Mega money loser.

Can understand some fans want to travel to some areas for games.

But, it's still about total viewers and total paying subscribers who are the basis of the massively successful media deals with Disney/ESPN, FoxSports and CBS, along with the local cable and satellite providers.

The good news for the ACC area is it will likely continue to grow its population.
The bad news for the ACC is, Football pays the bills. The Big Ten locked up a huge percentage of the US viewing population for college sports, especially for college football.

Imho...

Yeah TJ. It is currently. I never doubted that. However the population is moving south and east. We can become a rust belt relic or we can look to the future.

I'm not making the decisions, but I believe the Big Ten is bad for PSU. Adding Rutgers and Maryland helps, but really all that is doing is opening the east to the rest of the Big Ten.

 

[T J]

Yeah TJ. It is currently. I never doubted that. However the population is moving south and east. We can become a rust belt relic or we can look to the future.

I'm not making the decisions, but I believe the Big Ten is bad for PSU. Adding Rutgers and Maryland helps, but really all that is doing is opening the east to the rest of the Big Ten.

Appreciate your inputs.

 

[Nit16]

TV companies will have more influence than college presidents. The money is just too big. ESPN has the LN and SEC. They won't give them up but will combine them and partner with CBS. I would love for the BTN to work something out with NBC in order to grab ND. But will they? Doubt it! Fox would align with the PAC 12 network to showcase the west. ABC with the ACC...

Thought ND had contract obligations to join ACC only for next 20 years no?

 

[Nit16]

UVA and UNC or bust.

I thought the ACC just committed to each other in contracts for like the next 20 years. Why would it be UVA and UNC or bust. Why would the Big10 even consider expanding? the money train and strength is not going away. Let these other conferences go to 16 and devalue their conferences. It's happening because the Big10 makes so much. Seriously we don't need to feed any more mouths at the table. Let these idiot conferences bloat up and then add ND and Miami, Georgia Tech or Texas 12-15 years from now.