Confidence Level of Portal WRs or Denmark or Gonzalez or other guys?

[ryoder1]

What does everyone think? Good enough talent to be a big upgrade for us or same old same old bad, underperforming WR room? They will need to do something because there will be no all world Tyler Warren to make all the catches.

I have serious doubts that we have the needed talent at WR to win it all. That is the goal next year, right? Not just make the playoffs but actually win the whole shooting match. It is why Allar, Singleton, Allen, Durant, DDS all returned.

Can we still land a portal guy after spring practice that could be our #1 guy legitimately?

 

[GregInPitt]

I don't have any confidence that Franklin will even play the new WR's unless they show they can block like Hines Ward......

 

[tboyer]

Probably 2025 will look a lot like 2024. It will be a running team with at best a half-decent passing game. Not having Warren obviously means the team loses most of its passing yardage. But not having Warren means Allar and Coach K will be forced to throw to wideouts, and if wideouts get more targets they will get better. That didn't happen enough in 2024 because it was too easy to just throw to Warren since he caught almost everything.

I don't see anybody on the roster (or the coming roster) with size-speed-hands to really be a better-than-average B1G wide receiver. I doubt there is anybody with even Mitchell Tinsley-level wideout skills. It really wasn't smart for PSU to let Evans get away -- he was the best athlete in the wideout group. Evans was someone defenses had to worry about.

This is why I really hope PSU tries out everybody on campus starting with Olesh. If you can't have great speed, size can go a long way. Olesh has size and hands (and very good speed).

The other reason you won't see a great leap in the passing game is you won't see a great leap in Allar's game. I think it's unlikely to expect him to suddenly become a consistently accurate thrower from the pocket. Barring more consistency, it just won't be safe to have Allar throw over the middle or even deep sideline because he just doesn't locate those balls very well.

Turnover margin is a really big deal to Franklin. He's a little like Paterno in that he's willing to limit what Allar does fairly drastically to avoid interceptions. That's one of the reasons PSU doesn't get upset by lower-ranked teams. But then it becomes one of the reasons PSU doesn't beat higher-ranked teams -- because the QB and receivers aren't used to making big plays in big situations -- at least not enough.

And I blame Coach K for that. Yeah they had a lot of competitive games to win but they should have been more committed to developing the passing game in the early part of the season. If they had really committed early to really developing Evans, if they gave him 6-8 targets a game early, then they would have had more confidence throwing to him when they got to Ohio State and Oregon and Notre Dame.

 

[olelion]

no confidence until I see it

 

[Obliviax]

Low. Although AK was in his first year last year. I think we all know, if we are going to win a Natty, the WRs have to be able to make major contributions. I am hopeful that AK, with some miles under the tread with PSU, can scheme the WRs into a better place. It appears like CJF is keeping the WR position coach so he and AK don't think it is the coach. So it has to be the kids, the scheme or Allar. And since Allar is able to make all the other throws, not sure why he can't to WRs.

 

[GreggK]

I have no doubt that we are not done yet in the portal.
I expect some big pieces to come in the spring.

 

[bcspsu]

I have no doubt that we are not done yet in the portal.
I expect some big pieces to come in the spring.

If they don't, then that would be coaching negligence. We also are going to have to fill some holes on defense. If the staff is able to accomplish this in the spring, then I believe that PSU should be a legitimate favorite next season because this is a very veteran and battle tested team for the most part.

 

[bison13]

I have no doubt that we are not done yet in the portal.
I expect some big pieces to come in the spring.

I wont say 'big' but more pieces including a WR.

 

[Delcolion915]

They need to bring in two more receivers and they should have changed coaches, but I do understand why they didn't do the latter. Overall, they had two jobs: blow it up and acquire the game changers. They did only one. We will see you how that goes, but they still have a portal coming up to get something done.

 

[bcspsu]

They need to bring in two more receivers and they should have changed coaches, but I do understand why they didn't do the latter. Overall, they had two jobs: blow it up and acquire the game changers. They did only one. We will see you how that goes, but they still have a portal coming up to get something done.

If they even could get a some receivers the caliber of a Lambert-Smith in the spring portal, that really could make this offense almost unstoppable to all but a few teams on its schedule next season, and remember that Lambert-Smith entered the spring portal. PSU really has something to sell on the field right now, and hopefully it will have the necessary NIL money to spend in the spring. Because PSU is in a great position, it might be able to attract soem higher quality players in the spring who otherwise wouldn't have entered the portal just to have a chance to play an a legitimate National Championship contender.

 

[voltz99]

I don't have any confidence that Franklin will even play the new WR's unless they show they can block like Hines Ward......

Why? Before Fleming we had plenty of WRs who could not block.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

What does everyone think? Good enough talent to be a big upgrade for us or same old same old bad, underperforming WR room? They will need to do something because there will be no all world Tyler Warren to make all the catches.

I have serious doubts that we have the needed talent at WR to win it all. That is the goal next year, right? Not just make the playoffs but actually win the whole shooting match. It is why Allar, Singleton, Allen, Durant, DDS all returned.

Can we still land a portal guy after spring practice that could be our #1 guy legitimately?

Nobody here has any idea. Post this in October and I will give you my answers.

 

[bvillebaron]

Nobody here has any idea. Post this in October and I will give you my answers.

BINGO

 

[GregInPitt]

Why? Before Fleming we had plenty of WRs who could not block.

That seems to be what he says when asked about young WR's, like Denmark this past season. So he had Denmark on the bench to preserve his redshirt game after game when the WR's he was playing were blocking but not getting open and making plays.

 

[jimarnp]

What does everyone think? Good enough talent to be a big upgrade for us or same old same old bad, underperforming WR room? They will need to do something because there will be no all world Tyler Warren to make all the catches.

I have serious doubts that we have the needed talent at WR to win it all. That is the goal next year, right? Not just make the playoffs but actually win the whole shooting match. It is why Allar, Singleton, Allen, Durant, DDS all returned.

Can we still land a portal guy after spring practice that could be our #1 guy legitimately?

Don’t think we necessarily need a big upgrade at WR to get to the natty. I think we will be improved at WR, but the improvement will be marginal/average…..and given what else we have, it will be enough. Our OL will be the best and deepest it’s been in decades. Ditto he RB’s and TE’s. If the WR group does happen to take a BIG jump in improvement ( through development, portal, or both), we will become Alabama of 10 years ago.

 

[PSUSignore]

Impossible to say as we have almost no game data upon which to base an opinion.

 

[PSU4U]

What does everyone think? Good enough talent to be a big upgrade for us or same old same old bad, underperforming WR room? They will need to do something because there will be no all world Tyler Warren to make all the catches.

I have serious doubts that we have the needed talent at WR to win it all. That is the goal next year, right? Not just make the playoffs but actually win the whole shooting match. It is why Allar, Singleton, Allen, Durant, DDS all returned.

Can we still land a portal guy after spring practice that could be our #1 guy legitimately?

Well they couldn't possibly be worse than what the team just went through. If they had to they could just play all TE's we have a bunch of those guys who could play for anyone.

 

[blair10]

What does everyone think? Good enough talent to be a big upgrade for us or same old same old bad, underperforming WR room? They will need to do something because there will be no all world Tyler Warren to make all the catches.

I have serious doubts that we have the needed talent at WR to win it all. That is the goal next year, right? Not just make the playoffs but actually win the whole shooting match. It is why Allar, Singleton, Allen, Durant, DDS all returned.

Can we still land a portal guy after spring practice that could be our #1 guy legitimately?

I am optimistic Penn State’s passing game will show dramatic improvement compared to the last 2 WR disaster years.

Franklin has taken the appropriate and long overdue step of clearing out most of the underperforming and unproductive WRs on the roster. I think the combination of incoming WR transfers and a very good WR recruiting class, is a huge step in the right direction for the team.

Lastly, in terms of goals, being in the conversation for a National Title is the goal every year just like it is at B1G competitors Ohio State, Michigan, Oregon, and USC.

 

[BBHorn86]

Probably 2025 will look a lot like 2024. It will be a running team with at best a half-decent passing game. Not having Warren obviously means the team loses most of its passing yardage. But not having Warren means Allar and Coach K will be forced to throw to wideouts, and if wideouts get more targets they will get better. That didn't happen enough in 2024 because it was too easy to just throw to Warren since he caught almost everything.

I don't see anybody on the roster (or the coming roster) with size-speed-hands to really be a better-than-average B1G wide receiver. I doubt there is anybody with even Mitchell Tinsley-level wideout skills. It really wasn't smart for PSU to let Evans get away -- he was the best athlete in the wideout group. Evans was someone defenses had to worry about.

This is why I really hope PSU tries out everybody on campus starting with Olesh. If you can't have great speed, size can go a long way. Olesh has size and hands (and very good speed).

The other reason you won't see a great leap in the passing game is you won't see a great leap in Allar's game. I think it's unlikely to expect him to suddenly become a consistently accurate thrower from the pocket. Barring more consistency, it just won't be safe to have Allar throw over the middle or even deep sideline because he just doesn't locate those balls very well.

Turnover margin is a really big deal to Franklin. He's a little like Paterno in that he's willing to limit what Allar does fairly drastically to avoid interceptions. That's one of the reasons PSU doesn't get upset by lower-ranked teams. But then it becomes one of the reasons PSU doesn't beat higher-ranked teams -- because the QB and receivers aren't used to making big plays in big situations -- at least not enough.

And I blame Coach K for that. Yeah they had a lot of competitive games to win but they should have been more committed to developing the passing game in the early part of the season. If they had really committed early to really developing Evans, if they gave him 6-8 targets a game early, then they would have had more confidence throwing to him when they got to Ohio State and Oregon and Notre Dame.

Your comments say to me... we are no farther along than in 2024... beat the teams we should lose to the good competition. 10-2 overall get a home game maybe but a tougher draw and say bye bye as we face the truly elite teams. Hopefully something happens to break the pattern favorably. Time will tell.

 

[Crusher1950]

With the coach we have nothing will change so why worry about it

 

[PennState_one]

Cautiously optimistic. Denmark’s got the tools, but can he put it all together? Gonzalez has upside, but system fit matters. Portal guys? Could go either way. Talent’s there, but until they prove it on the field, hard to get too excited. 🤷

 

[Pennstate888]

Hudson I think it's pretty safe to say will be solid, but not spectacular. He had 462 yards for USC this year in 12 games in a much deeper WR room than at PSU. I think Hudson can be what Wallace was this year. Ross to me is the real wildcard. One the positive side, he translates well and is Tez Johnson like. On the negative side, he just can't play at this level. The incoming freshman could obviously pop, but I think it's unrealistic to expect that. Denmark hopefully can be ready to contribute and be at least serviceable.

 

[bison13]

Outten is a huge wild card coming in, to me. Good size, great speed, but can he do all the technical things that good wide receivers do. He’s been able to get by with the size and speed, kind of like Flemming, but can he quickly pick up the nuances of getting open to play as a freshman.

 

[LMTLION]

I have no doubt that we are not done yet in the portal.
I expect some big pieces to come in the spring.

The spring is too late. You need spring practice to get portal kids up to speed. I think we need to make do with what we have.

 

[Pennstate888]

Outten is a huge wild card coming in, to me. Good size, great speed, but can he do all the technical things that good wide receivers do. He’s been able to get by with the size and speed, kind of like Flemming, but can he quickly pick up the nuances of getting open to play as a freshman.

Freshman can play at receiver but it is obviously hard for the reasons you said. Parker Washington is prolly the only receiver during the Franklin Era that had the "little things" of being a receiver down as a true freshman. Outten may be able to contribute, but likely won't a star or even a number 1.

 

[GregInPitt]

Hudson I think it's pretty safe to say will be solid, but not spectacular. He had 462 yards for USC this year in 12 games in a much deeper WR room than at PSU. I think Hudson can be what Wallace was this year. Ross to me is the real wildcard. One the positive side, he translates well and is Tez Johnson like. On the negative side, he just can't play at this level. The incoming freshman could obviously pop, but I think it's unrealistic to expect that. Denmark hopefully can be ready to contribute and be at least serviceable.

I pretty much agree, but I believe Hudson was over shaddowed by the rest of USC's WR starters and although he doesn't seem like a consistent deep threat may end up as the sure hande receiver that Allar may target more frequently for first downs now that he won't have Warren in that role. So I'm expecting Hudson to put up 600 - 700 yards this season if Allar develops some chemistry with him and targets him regularly.

The team needs Ross to not only be a guy that gives the YAC that was missing for last year's WR's but also a deep threat. Some here believe Evans is a big loss, but Mike Tomlin would refer to him as a "one trick poney" as he for the most part only impacted games by going deep. I believe any better route runner will be an improvement over Evans.


Yep, I don't expect much from the true freshmen either. There's talk about Outten having the talent to play as a true freshman, but he didn't enroll early and unless he can pick up the offense super quick, in the first week or two of Fall practice, he likely won't get the reps to beat out all the other options as the last week or two of Fall practice are more aimed toward getting the 2 deep ready for the season.

But the team needs Denmark to be a playmaker that breaks into the WR starting lineup and puts up 500+ yards of catches. Denmark seems to have some elusiveness and could also give the offense some YAC from short throws that was missing last season other than from Warren.

The team also needs 2 more WR's to break in and make plays. Saunders, Gonzalez, Ivey, Brown or even a possibly improved Clifford. I kind of thought Clifford would graduate and move on as he doesn't create separation, but maybe he comes off the bench. Only Sauders has even played much out of the others, and not too much at that. Sauders played some in the slot, but he has some experience and if healthy could have a role of some kind, with longer-shots being Gonzalez, Ivey and Brown.

The staff will likely be trying to bring in another transfer WR this Spring as well.

Hard to predict a two deep at this point, but it most likely comes from Hudson, Ross, Denmark, Saunders, Clifford and a potential post Spring incoming transfer if there is one.

 

[ryoder1]

Probably 2025 will look a lot like 2024. It will be a running team with at best a half-decent passing game. Not having Warren obviously means the team loses most of its passing yardage. But not having Warren means Allar and Coach K will be forced to throw to wideouts, and if wideouts get more targets they will get better. That didn't happen enough in 2024 because it was too easy to just throw to Warren since he caught almost everything.

I don't see anybody on the roster (or the coming roster) with size-speed-hands to really be a better-than-average B1G wide receiver. I doubt there is anybody with even Mitchell Tinsley-level wideout skills. It really wasn't smart for PSU to let Evans get away -- he was the best athlete in the wideout group. Evans was someone defenses had to worry about.

This is why I really hope PSU tries out everybody on campus starting with Olesh. If you can't have great speed, size can go a long way. Olesh has size and hands (and very good speed).

The other reason you won't see a great leap in the passing game is you won't see a great leap in Allar's game. I think it's unlikely to expect him to suddenly become a consistently accurate thrower from the pocket. Barring more consistency, it just won't be safe to have Allar throw over the middle or even deep sideline because he just doesn't locate those balls very well.

Turnover margin is a really big deal to Franklin. He's a little like Paterno in that he's willing to limit what Allar does fairly drastically to avoid interceptions. That's one of the reasons PSU doesn't get upset by lower-ranked teams. But then it becomes one of the reasons PSU doesn't beat higher-ranked teams -- because the QB and receivers aren't used to making big plays in big situations -- at least not enough.

And I blame Coach K for that. Yeah they had a lot of competitive games to win but they should have been more committed to developing the passing game in the early part of the season. If they had really committed early to really developing Evans, if they gave him 6-8 targets a game early, then they would have had more confidence throwing to him when they got to Ohio State and Oregon and Notre Dame.

I think the Allar point is a really good one and one that is overlooked. Yes, our receivers were not good and did not produce. But is Allar to blame at least partly for the weak WR passing game? Yes. As you say his tendency to be inaccurate contributes to a weak WR passing game.

We do need him to improve and ideally be able to make the WRs better with his play. Or at least put the WRs in a position to make plays with his throws. And yes they need to be better with separation and winning contested balls so it is on both Allar and the WRs. He will not have Warren as his security blanket so he needs to figure out how to develop a good chemistry with the WRs. AK needs to help him with this through the right passing game schemes that minimizes his deficiencies and takes advantage of his strengths.

I hear you about Olesh but I think he is too young and inexperienced to be a game changer WR for us this season even if he wants to play WR and that is a big if. But maybe out of desperation we will need him to switch to WR.

 

[Pennstate888]

I pretty much agree, but I believe Hudson was over shaddowed by the rest of USC's WR starters and although he doesn't seem like a consistent deep threat may end up as the sure hande receiver that Allar may target more frequently for first downs now that he won't have Warren in that role. So I'm expecting Hudson to put up 600 - 700 yards this season if Allar develops some chemistry with him and targets him regularly.

The team needs Ross to not only be a guy that gives the YAC that was missing for last year's WR's but also a deep threat. Some here believe Evans is a big loss, but Mike Tomlin would refer to him as a "one trick poney" as he for the most part only impacted games by going deep. I believe any better route runner will be an improvement over Evans.


Yep, I don't expect much from the true freshmen either. There's talk about Outten having the talent to play as a true freshman, but he didn't enroll early and unless he can pick up the offense super quick, in the first week or two of Fall practice, he likely won't get the reps to beat out all the other options as the last week or two of Fall practice are more aimed toward getting the 2 deep ready for the season.

But the team needs Denmark to be a playmaker that breaks into the WR starting lineup and puts up 500+ yards of catches. Denmark seems to have some elusiveness and could also give the offense some YAC from short throws that was missing last season other than from Warren.

The team also needs 2 more WR's to break in and make plays. Saunders, Gonzalez, Ivey, Brown or even a possibly improved Clifford. I kind of thought Clifford would graduate and move on as he doesn't create separation, but maybe he comes off the bench. Only Sauders has even played much out of the others, and not too much at that. Sauders played some in the slot, but he has some experience and if healthy could have a role of some kind, with longer-shots being Gonzalez, Ivey and Brown.

The staff will likely be trying to bring in another transfer WR this Spring as well.

Hard to predict a two deep at this point, but it most likely comes from Hudson, Ross, Denmark, Saunders, Clifford and a potential post Spring incoming transfer if there is one.

Yeah I think the staff thinks Ross/Hudson will be an improvement on Wallace/Evans because if they didn't feel that way, they likely would've put up more of a fight to bring them back. Evans and Wallace also would've felt more secure and would've stayed anyway if they thought they were ahead of them imo. I agree Ross can be that KJ Hamler type guy to take a ten yard slant route for a 90 yard td potentially. Denmark is the most important guy in all this. We need a third guy from the room, and I think he is the only one who we can reasonably expect to be at that level. Cliff and Saunders can be fine reserves and second teams guys, especially with the formers blocking ability.

 

[ryoder1]

Hudson I think it's pretty safe to say will be solid, but not spectacular. He had 462 yards for USC this year in 12 games in a much deeper WR room than at PSU. I think Hudson can be what Wallace was this year. Ross to me is the real wildcard. One the positive side, he translates well and is Tez Johnson like. On the negative side, he just can't play at this level. The incoming freshman could obviously pop, but I think it's unrealistic to expect that. Denmark hopefully can be ready to contribute and be at least serviceable.

Can Hudson do it against elite competition? Wallace could not and we need a guy who can otherwise it is just like last year. Ross? Just not seeing that size and the fact he played in a conference so much weaker than the B10 translating well for us. Could he be a KJ Hamler?

 

[Pennstate888]

Can Hudson do it against elite competition? Wallace could not and we need a guy who can otherwise it is just like last year. Ross? Just not seeing that size and the fact he played in a conference so much weaker than the B10 translating well for us. Could he be a KJ Hamler?

For reference Hudson went 4/36/1 against us and 2/26 against Notre Dame. Is that enough/will he be able to do that here? TBD But that is at least better than what our receivers did against top secondaries this year. Ross is up to 171 since he got to campus, so I'm not as concerned about the weight as I am him going against better competition. Hamler was a similar size and Tez Johnson was even smaller, but Ross being a force at the Big Ten Level is still TBD. For us to feel confident at receiver going into 2025, we will need to add a transfer in the portal with proven production at the power four level.