It was very easy to show that the question wasn't so easy to answer, wasn't it?
COVID gratuitous dumpster fire thread
- Thread starter El-Jefe
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We already have proof of what would happen: Miami started enforcing mask wearing back in July.
Predictably, the police set up mask traps and fined people for nonsense such as lowering their mask for a sip of water, or for removing their masks in otherwise empty parking lots. With the always-charming "sign the citation or we'll arrest you. It's for your own good."
Equally predictably: the Miami mask police was just another extortion racket, taking money from poor minorities in order to fill the city coffers.
Government targeting poor minorities ... if only the people would rise up against that.
Our spirit was pretty good when it came to sacrificing for the common cause under strong leadership to fight Nazis and Japanese.
So I wonder what has changed more since then, our spirit or our leadership?
Well, our leadership in WW-II didn't have any qualms in putting American citizens of Japanese descent into internment camps. I guess our current leadership could have tried to do that with those that refused to mask up.
Yes. Good point.
So I should say: what I care about is that, at a high level, the White House needed to want to and try to take the lead, and not just abdicate to the states. For example, it should build testing capacity and promote mask usage and demote superspreader events, etc.
For example, at a high level, I would want the US to take the lead on fighting Nazis and Japan.
At a low level, you show that there are nitty gritty decisions that may be good or bad or Constitutional or not Constitutional. For example, Korematsu.
That quarantine NY stuff was funny because it was the US dabbling at “taking the lead” in a piecemeal and whimsical/vindictive way. I wish the US would have really wanted to lead instead of just wanting to stick it to Cuomo as a one-time stunt.
You make a fun observation/dig.
By chance, I mentioned Korematsu in my previous post even before seeing you mention it. That shows we are similar in what we think of and in what comes to mind. I’m coming around to Cali’s idea. I think we probably do agree more than we realize. TN also made good reference to your Cuomo example, which was helpful.
It’s good to think through things with you guys. Thanks!
I agree, enjoyed the civil exchanges, and really, really, really can't wait for wrestling to start.
In fairness, back in March Rhode Island deployed the National Guard at the border to block incoming NY/NJ cars from entering. Cuomo threatened to sue.
Seriously doubt that was a whimsical, vindictive, one-time stick it to Cuomo stunt.
I don't even know what to do with that. That is one of the biggest stretches of an analogy that I have ever seen.
Global, kills indiscriminately, invisible, fought with vaccines
Relatively local, killed discriminately, visible, fought with weapons
Plus, I know a group of young men who were recently ROTC at Penn State that, given the same scenario as WWII, would be willing to lay down their lives to protect this country, no matter who the leader is. I spoke to one of them this morning, from Guam, where he is resupplying while on deployment on a submarine.
It's a real shame that that is the only thing you picked out of my message.
So, have at it, the last word, or however many you want, is yours.
So, lying on my recliner, being relatively immobile, gives me time on my hands. I got to thinking about the country comparison thing. I reach no conclusions with the following information, just putting it out there.
Who is in our peer group when we make these country comparisons?
Of the 200 or so countries, there are 44 who are at least one-tenth our population.
Of the 44, there are 23 who have performed at least one-tenth the number of tests per million that the category leader has performed (UK is 1st in that category, we are 2nd)
Here is that list. I'll let you decide how many of them are peers.
Who is in our peer group when we make these country comparisons?
Of the 200 or so countries, there are 44 who are at least one-tenth our population.
Of the 44, there are 23 who have performed at least one-tenth the number of tests per million that the category leader has performed (UK is 1st in that category, we are 2nd)
Here is that list. I'll let you decide how many of them are peers.
| UK |
| USA |
| Russia |
| Spain |
| Germany |
| Canada |
| Italy |
| Saudi Arabia |
| France |
| Turkey |
| Peru |
| China |
| Poland |
| Brazil |
| Colombia |
| Morocco |
| South Africa |
| India |
| Iraq |
| Ukraine |
| Iran |
| Argentina |
| S. Korea |
I don't know about "peers," but off the top of my head, here are some that I think are worth comparing covid results with, in order of deaths/MM Pop (per worldometers)
Poland: 87
Turkey: 107
Germany: 117
Canada: 256
France: 507
Italy: 602
UK: 637
(US: 672)
Spain: 718
So 2nd worse of these, but in the ballpark as some of the bigger European countries (not saying that's good, just pointing out).
And, had we protected just half of our nursing home residents, we'd be at ~509. Criminal.
Fascinating how you can package so much nonsense in a single post. Your first argument is that the data is wrong. You seem to know better than every epidemiologist in the world who understand the health systems in these countries better than do you, who understand the data and the methodology/modeling used. But, you read it on the Internet, so you are an expert.
You seem to think that being 19th (instead of 10th) out of ~200 countries is an achievement about which to brag. Really?
That "xenophobic" comment is a Republican talking point that is false (Biden didn't call the lockdown "xenophobic": he called Trump "xenophobic"). The lockdown that was put in place (blocking Chinese inbound, but not US citizens, and ignoring the rest of the world) was totally ineffective, as the virus came mostly from Europe.
Ah, the "Freedom!" argument. You know what would have worked? Leaders like Trump actually acknowledging the seriousness of the matter, telling the people that they need to wear masks, care about their fellow citizens, listen to the scientists instead of him and his crackpot advisors (a radiologist? Really?) and prepare to work together in the hard times ahead (just like Churchill did). And not lying every time he opens his mouth.
Your username is apt.
You are arguing emotionally/politically, not logically.
What you are saying is that you believe all of the data, including that from China. The epicenter of the virus, a country of 1.4 billion people has had 4,500 deaths. And, what do epidemiological models have to do with counting dead bodies? Early U.S. models said that 2.2 million people would be dead before now, but you are relying on models for body counts?
If you can't look at that logically, and question it, then I can't help you, and there's no sense in going through the rest.
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So that everyone can read and analyze it, here is the quote in question. I would agree that most people probably have not read it and are simply regurgitating what they've heard from the media or something.
Come to your own conclusion. But to me it seems that when the former Vice President says "stop the xenophobic fear-mongering" he is referring directly to closing the borders from China and not simply to the President. The statement was in direct response to the President's tweet about that specific restriction.
Early models said that we might lose 2.2 million lives, *if we did nothing." Compare what China did in response to the pandemic with what we (didn't) do. That's what an authoritarian regime can do: lock people in buildings, among other things. Marshall all their resources, versus "let the states fight it out."
You are claiming that the data is wrong, without providing any evidence. Yes, there's no point in discussing this with you.
It couldn't be his reference to the "Chinese Virus," could it?
You do understand, by the way, that Trump did *not* close the borders, right?
So, is there something to my whole "freedom" discussion, or not? I'm confused.
I've been to the Beijing Hutong. I've been to the tent cities and slums in Brazil. I've been to the squalor of Johannesburg's slums. The possibility that those countries' death counts are accurate is slim to none. And, those are advanced countries, compared to most in Africa. Again, your emotion/politics is getting in the way of rational thought.
I'm done, the last word is yours.
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That may be the most tortured interpretation of anything I've ever seen. Biden is referring to Trump calling COVID-19 the "Chinese Virus".
It is certainly possible the he was only referring to one part of the tweet and not the other part. Considering the President has pretty consistently called COVID the "Chinese Virus" or "China Virus" and this is the tweet that the former Vice President called "xenophobic", I took it as him referring to the restriction that was imposed (or perhaps both things). Again, it could be that he was only referring to the one part as you mention.
And yes. In the tweet, the President referred to the restriction as "closing the borders" which is why I included that language in my response. It would have been incorrect to say that the former Vice President's response was directed at language not included in the tweet.
I wanted to simply provide the tweet in question and allow everyone to make their own decision on it. I think most people nowadays are forming an opinion without even reading the source material. Have you seen the tweet before I posted it? If not, at least I was able to show you something new.
You answer it. I already did. You just aren't smart enough to catch it.
Lets talk sports. Talk about the baseball team ....The Colorado Vikings......we will just call them COVI for short. They play in an international league with 195 other teams. They are the wealthiest of all the teams. They have the highest payroll...the finest facilities....and the most "All-Stars". There current record is 3-52 and are currently in 187th place. Their head Coach is doing an interview after the team's latest loss.
Reporter: Coach Diverter.....why is your team doing so horribly?
Coach: We aren't doing terribly
Reporter: You are in 187th place in a 195 team league. Only 8 teams have worse records. Why are you doing so horribly?
Coach: If you compare our scoring in night games against left handers we are 10th or 11th place.
Reporter: 10th or 11th from the BOTTOM. Again......why is your team doing so horribly? Your record is 3-52
Coach: You can't do that
Reporter: WHAT?
Coach Diverter: You can't compare our record to other teams.....they have different stadiums and different uniforms.
Reporter: FACTS: You are the wealthiest team with the highest payroll and greatest resources. Why are you doing so terribly?
Coach: Why are the others teams doing better than us? What are they doing differently? You need to answer that question
Reporter: I am simply asking about results. You were considered the Pre-season favorite....and rightfully so. Yet your record speaks for itself......nearly the worst in the League. AGAIN....why are you doing so poorly.
Coach Diverter: Did you check to see the ERA of the opposing pitchers in every other teams games and compare to the ERA of the pitchers that threw against us?
Reporter: No.....I don't need to see those numbers to see you are in 187th place. Why are you in 187th place?
Coach: See....it isn't as easy as you think. You need to research the different Stadium Dimensions, the Brightness of the lights, the weight of the opponents uniforms, the average shoe size and depths of their spikes. These difference need to be considered
Reporter: WTF. I'll try being more specific.... Why are you doing so much worse than Canada or Germany?
Coach Diverter: You know they drink more beer in Germany than we do and Canadians can't correctly say the word "out".
Reporter: Are you ever going to answer a simple question about your team COVI?.......Why are you doing worse than 186 other teams despite all the financial and resource advantages your team has?
Coach Diverter: See.....it isn't as easy as you think
Well folks......we are out of time...thank you.
Coach Diverter: Nailed It!
Reporter: Coach Diverter.....why is your team doing so horribly?
Coach: We aren't doing terribly
Reporter: You are in 187th place in a 195 team league. Only 8 teams have worse records. Why are you doing so horribly?
Coach: If you compare our scoring in night games against left handers we are 10th or 11th place.
Reporter: 10th or 11th from the BOTTOM. Again......why is your team doing so horribly? Your record is 3-52
Coach: You can't do that
Reporter: WHAT?
Coach Diverter: You can't compare our record to other teams.....they have different stadiums and different uniforms.
Reporter: FACTS: You are the wealthiest team with the highest payroll and greatest resources. Why are you doing so terribly?
Coach: Why are the others teams doing better than us? What are they doing differently? You need to answer that question
Reporter: I am simply asking about results. You were considered the Pre-season favorite....and rightfully so. Yet your record speaks for itself......nearly the worst in the League. AGAIN....why are you doing so poorly.
Coach Diverter: Did you check to see the ERA of the opposing pitchers in every other teams games and compare to the ERA of the pitchers that threw against us?
Reporter: No.....I don't need to see those numbers to see you are in 187th place. Why are you in 187th place?
Coach: See....it isn't as easy as you think. You need to research the different Stadium Dimensions, the Brightness of the lights, the weight of the opponents uniforms, the average shoe size and depths of their spikes. These difference need to be considered
Reporter: WTF. I'll try being more specific.... Why are you doing so much worse than Canada or Germany?
Coach Diverter: You know they drink more beer in Germany than we do and Canadians can't correctly say the word "out".
Reporter: Are you ever going to answer a simple question about your team COVI?.......Why are you doing worse than 186 other teams despite all the financial and resource advantages your team has?
Coach Diverter: See.....it isn't as easy as you think
Well folks......we are out of time...thank you.
Coach Diverter: Nailed It!
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This thread is undoubtedly the worst of all time. The original title was spot on. The political commentary offered Up reminds me of Major Major Major (for those who remember a literary classic from the 60’s)
If you think this thread is bad, wait until you see a new thread I’m starting:
A New Pandemic In The Works
Lol what the hell happened to this thread let's talk wrestling I could give two you know what's about what political party your affiliated with or if t
Now here's where the runaway dump truck goes jefe lmfao
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Well, let's see. A former wrestler from Penn State was mentioned.
Here's the deal folks. Penn State affiliation has no merit on this board when it comes to politics. Wrestler or not, it's not tolerated. Covid directly affects sports at Penn State. Politics will not be tolerated, whatsoever. Thus...why the posts were removed. Carry on.
I don’t think they should be canceling sports, but to those saying covid is “no risk” to college students:
www.wsoctv.com
Parents of ASU student who died from COVID-19 complications open up about loss
Chad Dorrill's family said he was diagnosed on Sept. 27, isolated at home, then doctors cleared him to return to Boone.
We want a long, dark, painful winter. 78 million people are like heck yeah sign me up for that!
Absolutely no one says covid is zero risk to any age group. That's a straw man. The flu kills college kids too. As does drug overdoses. As does suicide. For a 10 year old, the covid mortality rate is 1 in 50,000. For a 25 year old, it is 1 in 1,000. If you're the 1, it's a bad day for you and your family. Still, it's pretty uncommon for those age groups. By comparison, if you're over 85, the mortality rate is 15 in 100.I don’t think they should be canceling sports, but to those saying covid is “no risk” to college students:
Parents of ASU student who died from COVID-19 complications open up about loss
Chad Dorrill's family said he was diagnosed on Sept. 27, isolated at home, then doctors cleared him to return to Boone.
'It's Just The Flu': Father Recounts College Student's Life-And-Death Battle
Flu poses special challenges on college campuses, where germs spread quickly and students may be handling their own health for the first time.
These are extremely depressing and concerning times for many reasons. Everyone do their part to stay safe, live life, and be grateful for today.
District 3 school decides to not field a wrestling team in '20-'21 due to COVID-19
Facing outbreaks in both the middle school and high school, Greencastle-Antrim has decided not to field a wrestling team this season.
www.publicopiniononline.com
not collegiate but here in district 3.
Absolutely no one says covid is zero risk to any age group. That's a straw man. The flu kills college kids too. As does drug overdoses. As does suicide. For a 10 year old, the covid mortality rate is 1 in 50,000. For a 25 year old, it is 1 in 1,000. If you're the 1, it's a bad day for you and your family. Still, it's pretty uncommon for those age groups. By comparison, if you're over 85, the mortality rate is 15 in 100.
'It's Just The Flu': Father Recounts College Student's Life-And-Death Battle
Flu poses special challenges on college campuses, where germs spread quickly and students may be handling their own health for the first time.www.wbur.org
I agree, however I have absolutely seen people (even prominent ones) say that. I forget exactly who off the top of my head, but I can try to find some of you want.
And like I said I don’t think they should be canceling sports or even having all classes online for that matter. But there should be stricter enforcement IMO of parties and stuff like that. The bigger concern is it spreading to the more vulnerable members of the community. This appears to have happened in Wisconsin for example - https://www.wpr.org/study-shows-covid-19-spillover-colleges-nursing-homes
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