Do you roll with Mcsorley or Stevens
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Stevens, Trace hasn’t been right since OSU. Let Trace sit a couple of weeks and start him on Senior Day.
This is what I said yesterday and I think TS should have started an played the entire game. The UM defense completely discounted TM running and allowed the to key on Sanders or the pass and that really made the PSU offense easy to defend....Once TS came in PSU moved it pretty easily. TS made a TERRIBLE throw on the pick 6, but he has to play to learn and will make some mistakes. His running ability really put UM on their heals and I don't want to hear they were laying back....they tried all out to get the shutout calling timeouts, playing the starters, challenging obvious completions.
my loyalties lie with McSorley. But my practicality goes with Stevens, especially since we are already bowl eligible with no chance of winning any championships.
They really did want that shut out and Tommy did well getting the score. Small victory but I'm really glad we didn't get shut out
I could give two rats butts about who is drafted higher. I want who gives PSU best chance to win. Not necessarily the same person. Depends on Trace’s health, not the draft projection.
Agreed. The oline is just awful. We cannot line up and run the ball. When your entire offensive game plan is to rely on the athleticism of the qb, you will not win many tough games.
Agreed. and at 240lbs Tommy can actually fill a role of a quasi fullback (that some here long for) on short yardage situations
I said I’d have played him and ran him at least 20 times. Could probably have grinder out more first downs and kept some drives going
This isn't to take anything away from the leadership, accomplishments, and grit that Trace has displayed. But given the same opportunities/experience, I believe Tommy would have been a better choice several years ago. Trace benefited by his supporting cast. This year that cast is gone and it shows. My contention will be born out in the future by the draft.
I watched the game yesterday with a long time friend who was a college football coach and an athletic director for many years. He has some ties with Penn State and watches all of the games. Some of his observations:
--McSorely appears to him to be hurting more than he is letting on and it is affecting both his running and passing.
--He would have probably started McSorely but would have quickly changed to Stevens in the first half and would have stayed with him for the remainder of the game.
--He would play Stevens the remainder of the season unless McSorely heals up and can be 100%.
--He would speak with McSorely today privately, just the two of them, to find out his injury status and what McSorely feels are reasonable expectations for the remainder of the season. He would want McSorely and Stevens to be on the same page with regards to the strategy for the remaining games.
--He thinks that McSorely could be drafted but more likely as a slot receiver. Teams like his leadership ability, toughness, ball skills, and he could be an emergency QB but the primary role would be as a short distance possession receiver. He thinks college QBs make good possession receivers because they can read defenses and make adjustments to get open quickly. Used some examples like Julian Edelman.(So maybe reverse the roles with Stevens as the QB and McSorely as the "Lion" giving McSorely some tape in a receiving role as long as he is healthy enough to play and agrees to this role.)
--McSorely appears to him to be hurting more than he is letting on and it is affecting both his running and passing.
--He would have probably started McSorely but would have quickly changed to Stevens in the first half and would have stayed with him for the remainder of the game.
--He would play Stevens the remainder of the season unless McSorely heals up and can be 100%.
--He would speak with McSorely today privately, just the two of them, to find out his injury status and what McSorely feels are reasonable expectations for the remainder of the season. He would want McSorely and Stevens to be on the same page with regards to the strategy for the remaining games.
--He thinks that McSorely could be drafted but more likely as a slot receiver. Teams like his leadership ability, toughness, ball skills, and he could be an emergency QB but the primary role would be as a short distance possession receiver. He thinks college QBs make good possession receivers because they can read defenses and make adjustments to get open quickly. Used some examples like Julian Edelman.(So maybe reverse the roles with Stevens as the QB and McSorely as the "Lion" giving McSorely some tape in a receiving role as long as he is healthy enough to play and agrees to this role.)
Are you questioning his courage? Who the f*ck are you to do so? He’s tougher, and has more intestinal fortitude than you will ever have. I will not, nor should anyone here, allow you to do this to a great kid and wonderful leader.
No need to get so defensive.
You may be misinterpreting the connotation behind "want to find the ground." I didn't read that as a desire to go down out of self protection. No one would question Trace's grit and determination. I read it as a tendency, primarily the result of Trace's size and lower body strength relative to guys making the tackle. Trace's running and elusiveness are his strengths. His success running has been by being smart and avoiding the tackle through quickness. He is hobbled now and can't avoid people quite as well. Simple as that.
Stevens may not be as elusive as a healthy Trace but appears to be faster and can run over people with his size. So right now Stevens is a better option.
That much is for certain... they desperately wanted the 0 up there and they fought to get it. We fought to get that 7. It was about the only time all game I felt there was a battle.. and we won it.
Do we win it with Tommy at QB? Probably not. But I'd like our chances to move the ball, keep the D rested so maybe they make a critical play while halfway fresh. As crappy as this team played, we were in it into the 3rd quarter. What happens if we actually show signs of life on O?
Would Kerry Collins have made a difference? Only if someone other than Rahne is dialing up the plays. This is the problem that needs to be addressed.... for the first time in a few years i was back to KNOWING what was coming next about 80% of the time. Not good.
So the conundrum for Franklin is that if Tommy gets a full week of practice with the first team, and lights it up for the next two weeks (crappy opponents notwithstanding), people will question his decision to go with Trace in 2016. "Could Tommy have been the difference? Could he have gotten 1 or 2 more wins per season?"
Trace is gone either way, so my vote is for Stevens (unless Clifford looks that amazing in practice), but not with limit reps during practice, and not coming in down a few scores. Just let Trace take his lumps in that case.
Trace is gone either way, so my vote is for Stevens (unless Clifford looks that amazing in practice), but not with limit reps during practice, and not coming in down a few scores. Just let Trace take his lumps in that case.
You highlight what I believe is the main reason head coaches are reluctant to play backups. They don't like controversy. They don't want their decisions in question. Controversy isn't good for the confidence of the starter either. So it isn't necessarily what might happen in that particular game, good or bad. It's about what might happen down the line. Backup plays poorly and the view is he should not be in there. Decision is questioned. Backup plays well and there are calls for a change. It's a no win situation in the view of the HC.
Play Stevens, let TM heal. Bring him in if appropriate. Give Clifford a chance too. Play Stevens and Clifford, keep TM in reserve.
I can't second guess the 2016 decision no matter how things go... that kid turned the program around and I'm forever grateful he came to this school and led the way.
But right now, unless the docs clear Trace as 100% ready, TS should be starting vs Wisky. As to Wisky being mediocre... not buying it. They have a ton of talent and the ability to find that one game anytime... preferably not against us. At this point in the season, every game to every team is so much more intense, and we better be prepared for 3 teams that desperately want to win out.
But right now, unless the docs clear Trace as 100% ready, TS should be starting vs Wisky. As to Wisky being mediocre... not buying it. They have a ton of talent and the ability to find that one game anytime... preferably not against us. At this point in the season, every game to every team is so much more intense, and we better be prepared for 3 teams that desperately want to win out.
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He had a great game against tOSU, but arguably we put the game away if he just kept the ball instead of throwing it when he went past the line of scrimmage.
And he certainly contributed to MSU’s last drive by going out-of-bounds on third down.
Both CRITICAL mistakes any QB let alone a third-year starter simply can’t make.
It will be Trace. Franklin is a fiercely loyal individual and it may just be his kryptonite. I'm not giving up on Franklin yet tho
I'd say Stevens, but they will play McSorley. McSorley just doesn't have it this year. His receivers haven't helped him, but he hasn't been accurate at all. His lack of size and arm is starting to show up. He's completing 52% of his passes. I don't care who is out there running routes, that is atrocious.
No, not at all and I said as much. I said it might be injury related but he seems to be more immobile recently so that he is being tackled more easily it appears without max contact being applied.
LOL. Trace was a two year starter with a 22-5 record and was on the short list for the Heisman. He was widely regarded around college football as being more valuable to his team than any other player.
Yea, real conundrum. The only people who would second guess starting Trace at the beginning of the year are some of the experts on this site
“maybe that is injury OR SOMETHING ELSE.” What something else other than lack of courage?
You obviously want to make an issue out of this for some reason. The point is, something else means I don’t know why he seems to react to contact more now than my impressions of how he reacted to contact previously. Maybe he reacts the same, it just seems different to me.
I can’t stand when people take what’s written and then assume something else beyond what was actually written. That’s on YOU. If I wanted to say that Trace is afraid or not interested in competing or whatever else, I would have said so. I simply said he seems to be finding the ground a lot more now than my perception of his play previously. You are the one who extended this to something much different. That’s on you.
I'm going to take a swing at this and if i whiff, i'm sure to get called out (strike 3). That's cool.
In his final season at osu, JT Barrett went wonkers in the weight room, his arms got huge, and his accuracy (never a strong point) went south big time (the lone exception being against us
).
I had the sense Trace spent more time in the weight room and was bigger than he had been in previous years. Since i'm not seeing him close up, that might be illusory. The biggest criticism he had faced was lack of arm strength and perhaps he pumped it up to get his arm stronger. I thought early on he was throwing harder and higher than in years past... might just be perception.
Whatever the case, his accuracy has been down (not helped by drops, but even adding 75% of those drops back in as catches only takes his percentage into the mid 50's). Receivers not on same page certainly is an issue, but even when he has guys open he's not putting it in there the way he used to.
Is there the chance that he made physical changes and they've bunched him up (like when I got bigger it really f'd my golf swing up as arms and chest bunched together and interfered with my swing)? It could just be a litany of many things, but he came into the year not on target so something changed. [Can't question vision based on how he runs... he sees everything exceptionally well... which again made that "give up" play so unusual.]
OK, i'm going back to the dugout.
In his final season at osu, JT Barrett went wonkers in the weight room, his arms got huge, and his accuracy (never a strong point) went south big time (the lone exception being against us
).I had the sense Trace spent more time in the weight room and was bigger than he had been in previous years. Since i'm not seeing him close up, that might be illusory. The biggest criticism he had faced was lack of arm strength and perhaps he pumped it up to get his arm stronger. I thought early on he was throwing harder and higher than in years past... might just be perception.
Whatever the case, his accuracy has been down (not helped by drops, but even adding 75% of those drops back in as catches only takes his percentage into the mid 50's). Receivers not on same page certainly is an issue, but even when he has guys open he's not putting it in there the way he used to.
Is there the chance that he made physical changes and they've bunched him up (like when I got bigger it really f'd my golf swing up as arms and chest bunched together and interfered with my swing)? It could just be a litany of many things, but he came into the year not on target so something changed. [Can't question vision based on how he runs... he sees everything exceptionally well... which again made that "give up" play so unusual.]
OK, i'm going back to the dugout.
i think one of Trace's biggest issues is he's not throwing guys open or releasing the ball while the WR is making the break in his route
he is literally waiting until the WR is clearly "open" and often times thats too late due to pressure from DL or allowing the DB or LB to close the open window before the ball arrives
he is literally waiting until the WR is clearly "open" and often times thats too late due to pressure from DL or allowing the DB or LB to close the open window before the ball arrives
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There is plenty to lose! Unranked in the top 25, a New Years Day bowl, top level recruits, national reputation. Do you need anymore examples?
How many more examples do you need to see that Trace isn't what he was the last two years. 9 games into the season and he only has 1700 yards passing, 52% completions, 7 yards per attempt, 12 TDs and 5 Ints. He's also ranked 90th in passing efficiency.
It’s also the couple of lost exchanges with Sanders, overthrowing 90% of long pass patterns including the wide open gift TD this past weekend and the HUGE mental mistakes: throwing when he’s past the line-of-scrimmage against tOSU, not staying in-bounds late against MSU and sliding before the first down against UMich.
Not seeing the same thing. I think there have been plenty of examples of balls being thrown early, too early.
To the speculation that maybe weight training is having an impact on accuracy, I think it's the reason running backs with bulky arms and legs don't make good passers. Lost sensitivity and touch. The Barrett example is a good one. Conversely, a back that is not stout isn't going to make for a good runner. You're either one or the other.
QBs should be passers, the best passers they can be. I hate this offense.
OK. Have a look at the 3rd down pass intended for Bowers in the infamous 3-pass plays to run-the-clock-out controversy. I think it was around 4:30 in the 4th of the MSU game.
