Except for the fact that MM never filed a written statement or report to UPPD. Schultz wasn't a uniformed police officer. Having an off the record informal chat with him is one thing to get the ball rolling, but if MM really wanted JS off the streets he'd have to, you know, actually file a police report. Neither MM nor JM ever even expressed one word of dissatisfaction with Schultz over the fact that no one from UPPD ever came to get MM's statement so they could get this monster off the streets...hmmm....
FC: CSS Failure To Report charge thrown out by judge
- Thread starter Zenophile
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Except for the fact that MM never filed a written statement or report to UPPD. Schultz wasn't a uniformed police officer. Having an off the record informal chat with him is one thing to get the ball rolling, but if MM really wanted JS off the streets he'd have to, you know, actually file a police report. Neither MM nor JM ever even expressed one word of dissatisfaction with Schultz over the fact that no one from UPPD ever came to get MM's statement so they could get this monster off the streets...hmmm....
This is the statement that worries me.
V2 - "That same week Jerry either told me in person or on the phone that the night we were in the showers, Coach McQueary reported that he saw us engaged in sexual acts and reported this to school officials. Jerry told me to expect a call from school officials."
http://www.framingpaterno.com/sites/default/files/Interview_Vic_2_Redacted.pdf
http://www.framingpaterno.com/sites/default/files/Interview_Vic_2_Redacted.pdf
V2 - "That same week Jerry either told me in person or on the phone that the night we were in the showers, Coach McQueary reported that he saw us engaged in sexual acts and reported this to school officials. Jerry told me to expect a call from school officials."
http://www.framingpaterno.com/sites/default/files/Interview_Vic_2_Redacted.pdf
http://www.framingpaterno.com/sites/default/files/Interview_Vic_2_Redacted.pdf
If MM reported something to C/S/S that required a report to the authorities, he probably should have reported it to the authorities. Making C/S/S aware did not meet his burden.
Or he didn't see/report something to C/S/S that required a report to the authorities. Either way, I think C/S/S are in the clear.
If it worries you so much, how come you only have your first post now, to bring it up?
Nice first post....why would either side care about a statement from a person that neither side views as credible?
I am aware that MM did not file anything written. I am just recounting what he said. I am also aware Schultz is not a uniformed officer.
Hence, MM is able to say that he thought he did tell the police via his discussion with Schultz. I'm not arguing whether it is right or wrong, but that is what MM stated. He can act like a dumb ol' boy and claim that he (thought) he told the police. That line of questioning more or less dies there.
How can their request for a Bill of Particulars be denied? The OAG's office has only had 63 months to come up with one.
Ok, but the trial will take place 90 miles away in Dauphin County, Harrisburg.
But they only have to report to authorities if what MM told them was thought to be a criminal act. That has been the issue the whole time around. C/S/S say that MM said he saw JS in the shower with a boy but didn't see anything sexual. Is that enough for C/S/S to have to call the police? MM is saying that he told C/S/S it was more than that and that MM told C/S/S that he did see sexual activity. That is where I think MM will get torn to shreds by a good attorney as to his many different stories to different people and why would a jury believe that he told C/S/S something different.
At one point, did they ever establish that Mike called someone else on his way home? I thought that he called his girl friend first? Has anyone ever heard what she has to say?
Devil's advocate.
1. Courtney Billing note says "Suspected Child Sexual Abuse".
2. MMcQ story gets Sandusky convicted
3. MMcQ wins his civil Whistleblower trial.
4. Paterno was fired. Hmmm, must be something going on for that to happen.
What do you think dumb ol' plain Jane/Joe juror will surmise from that?
He called his Dad first.
Moments after the 2001 incident Mike McQueary called home and told his father Twice he saw nothing more than Jerry Sandusky in a shower with a boy and did not witness anything sexual.
John McQueary in his testimony began by recounting the phone call he received from his son moments after witnessing Sandusky and a child in the Lasch building shower room in 2001. His wife answered the phone and immediately handed him the phone, saying “It’s Mike. There’s something wrong.”
“I just saw something, I saw Coach Sandusky in the shower with a young boy,” John recalled his son saying.
“I asked him if he had seen anal sex and I got more descriptive. ‘Did you see anything you could verify’ — penetration or maybe I used the word sodomy,” he said. According to his father, Mike McQueary responded, “No, I didn’t actually see that” John McQueary says he asked again, “So you didn’t witness penetration or anything else you can verify?” His son again said no.
How many folks critically evaluate arguments.......gather facts ........evaluate data ......pose questions .......and THEN come to a conclusion?
Were you around for the last POTUS election? Or following the "Muslim Ban" circle-jerk?
In fairness, no one KNOWS what was actually said in 2001.....but so many folks seem to act as if we do. Probably - understandably - in large part because we have so many people with a deep interest, and we - five years later - really don't have ANYTHING else to sate our curiosity.
At best, we have records of what people - 10 years after the fact - recall. That is just a simple fact - - - - and that is far different from KNOWING what was said.
In the best case scenario - assuming everyone is being as righteous as possible - maybe that reasonably provides a general tenor of what may have gone down - but that's it........
I couldn't give you a detailed, specific breakdown of a conversation I had last night, not one that would be worth parsing on a word by word basis, certainly not one where it would make any sense to try to draw conclusions from this or that specific word - - - - -
let alone one from a conversation from 10+ years ago (and neither could any other human being who walked the planet)
And yet.....here we are.
That's kind of a bitch.
Remember, this is a criminal trial the state will have to prove that C/S/S are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. This is not the JS trial where multiple kids got up and said they were abused. This is not a civil trial where all MM had to do was get the jury to agree in part that he was treated different (which the facts supported so was easy).
The state will have to prove that C/S/S was told by MM of a sexual act by JS and then that they did nothing with that information except for tell JR a watered down version. I think with just all the information brought up in this thread, BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT is going to be real, real hard to make happen.
The state will have to prove that C/S/S was told by MM of a sexual act by JS and then that they did nothing with that information except for tell JR a watered down version. I think with just all the information brought up in this thread, BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT is going to be real, real hard to make happen.
Some things to remember about Penn Live and its trolls and Dauphin County:
1. Most of the trolls aren't from Dauphin County, or even the general readership area Penn Live covers. i.e., asswipes like JJ in Philly, Butterball- Buterbaugh whatever her name is, Conrad, and all their various aliases. One person can be 12 people on Penn Live, but one person can't take up the whole jury box in real life.
2. Anyone living across the river from Harrisburg is not in Dauphin County. Technically, even Penn Live/ Patriot News is not based "in" Dauphin County.
3. They may not be all that influential. Don't forget, they can't even drum up enough readership or advertising to publish a daily newspaper in a state capitol and one of the larger metropolitan areas in one of the largest states.
4. The northern and eastern parts of the county have many people who could be more sympathetic to Penn State people. Also, Harrisburg/Steelton residents could be more distrusting of law enforcement. Hell, people from all over the county get huge doses of hearing about corrupt government and judicial types. There are many not pleased with the shenanigans of the OAG the past few years.
It would be interesting to see who gets bounced from being placed on the jury and why.
1. Most of the trolls aren't from Dauphin County, or even the general readership area Penn Live covers. i.e., asswipes like JJ in Philly, Butterball- Buterbaugh whatever her name is, Conrad, and all their various aliases. One person can be 12 people on Penn Live, but one person can't take up the whole jury box in real life.
2. Anyone living across the river from Harrisburg is not in Dauphin County. Technically, even Penn Live/ Patriot News is not based "in" Dauphin County.
3. They may not be all that influential. Don't forget, they can't even drum up enough readership or advertising to publish a daily newspaper in a state capitol and one of the larger metropolitan areas in one of the largest states.
4. The northern and eastern parts of the county have many people who could be more sympathetic to Penn State people. Also, Harrisburg/Steelton residents could be more distrusting of law enforcement. Hell, people from all over the county get huge doses of hearing about corrupt government and judicial types. There are many not pleased with the shenanigans of the OAG the past few years.
It would be interesting to see who gets bounced from being placed on the jury and why.
And yet, they have refused to take a plea. Any of them. And they have refused to flip. And their lawyers aren't named Amendola.
They know what they are doing.
They know what they are doing.
I'm sure they have yours.
It might not be to "poison the jury pool" as much as to prepare the people like you for what is coming.
Somebody mentioned a hypothetical "bombshell." What would be your definition of a "bombshell?"
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I mentioned a hypothetical bombshell.
I would consider a bombshell to be any of the following:
1) An email between C/S/S or from C/S/S to a third party explicitly discussing dissuading McQueary from making a report.
2) Handwritten notes by C, S or S discussing how to keep 2001 from being reported.
3) A credible witness who testifies that C/S/S prevented 2001 from being reported.
I think if any of these existed, someone would have leaked this info by now (or it would have come out in some of the already existing testimonies).
If any of these existed, they'd have taken one of those plea deals.
Let's see what happens with that statement in court. With real attorneys. With cross-examination.
So McQueary doesn't tell the man he trusts most in this world - his father - that he saw anal rape of a child in a shower. And his physician father feels that what he was told did not warrant police intervention. Yet we're supposed to believe he told Curley & Schultz, two men he did not have frequent contact with, everything in precise detail. The Commonwealth is going to have an incredibly difficult time getting around that.
Even if it can be established he called his GF -- who later became his wife, now ex-wife -- she has million$ of reasons to back his version of the story.
What were tossed was Perjury , Conspiracy to Commit Perjury (both F3) and one Obstruction charge (M2).
What is left are Endangerment (F3, two counts each), Conspiracy to Commit Endangerment (F3), and Obstruction (M2).
Spanier, alone, was charged with Failure to Report (summary), which was dropped.
So Curley and Schultz each had 5 felonies and 2 misdemeanors. They now have 3 felonies and 1 misdemeanor.
Spanier had 5 felonies, 2 misdemeanors, and a summary offense. Now he has 3 felonies and 1 misdemeanor.
Most of the charges remain.
Oh, I'm staying and will continue to remind everyone of your support for the person who didn't investigate TSM, Kathleen Kane.
I agree, but how about this:
A third person report that would reveal the CSS and/or Paterno know that Sandusky was pedophile prior to McQueary's report in 2001? Thoughts.
