I thought the gist of your post was the upcoming trial. While I have an opinion on McQ, he'll testify and, regardless of what we think of him, 2 juries have bought his testimony.
FC: CSS Failure To Report charge thrown out by judge
- Thread starter Zenophile
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I thought the gist of your post was the upcoming trial. While I have an opinion on McQ, he'll testify and, regardless of what we think of him, 2 juries have bought his testimony.
The EWOC and related conspiracy charges appear to be all that remains. Both the Commonwealth and CSS attorneys put forth various arguments about EWOC at a 10/13/2016 hearing. CSS attorneys argue that the Commonwelath has yet to define a duty of care. The Commonwealth seems to argue that Victims 1, 5, and 9 were owed a duty of care. Here's a link to the transcript of that hearing; I've extracted some highlights in the tweet below.
http://www.dauphincounty.org/govern...mmonwealth v. Curley, Schultz and Spanier.pdf
http://www.dauphincounty.org/govern...mmonwealth v. Curley, Schultz and Spanier.pdf
Bonzo the chimp could have worn a red wig and testified as mcqueary and juries would have bought it.
Were the conspiracy charges part of the original charges? I thought all charges outside of failure to report and ewoc were dismissed by the superior court a year ago? Are the conspiracy charges related to the new charges beemer asked to be reinstated a couple of months back? Thanks
Thanks for making my point in my first response. Juries look for vengeance in CSA cases. I don't expect an acquittal.
I've reached the end here, no sense in prolonging the discussion, and, I'm off to Hawaii, celebrating retirement.
The upcoming trial, if it happens, will be an entirely different animal. First, for the Sandusky trial it's not quite accurate to say the jury bought McQueary's testimony. Sandusky was found not guilty of the most serious offense which McQueary supposedly saw. That trial was also ramrodded through the courts and took place when public disgust against Sandusky was still palpable. The McQueary whistle blower trial took place in Centre Co. where many people love the institution of Penn State but hate the chutzpah sometimes displayed by the administration. Also in that trial McQueary came across as an innocent local boy who was railroaded by said administration.
The next trial will take place in Dauphin Co. away from the shadow of the institution and the administration. That's a good thing for C/S/S.
And $
And millions of dollars have been paid out by Penn State because ...they wanted this all to go away?
OMG... how are certain members of our BOT not facing trial ?
And yet.......five - - - years - - - later - - -
Now - you wanna' get really righteous???
If I analyze this correctly:
1 - The FTR stuff - largely based on the entire MM / CS conversations, is tossed
2 - The Grand Jury based "perjury" allegations are dead (or on life support, i'd have to check to be sure,,,,,, JimmyW??? )
____________
On other words;
EVERYTHING that tied the case to "Penn State Football".......if I'm reading this right....... Is now DEAD
All that is left is the EWC for CSS, which, again - if I'm reading it right, will have to be pursued as if the "charge" is that CSS exhibited a pattern of somehow "facilitating JS's actions" - and thereby "endangering children", from 2001 to some point in the future
Now - even if that is all PROVEN (i.e. Guilty verdicts are reached) ........ NONE of that can even be tangentially considered a "Penn State Football" issue
And yet - look at all the destruction, the lives charred, look at what MM went through, look at what JVP went through, look at what EVERY PENN STATER had to deal with, look at the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS squandered - gone - burned at an altar of "f$cked up".......
For shit that ain't even being prosecuted
How's that grab ya'?
And millions of dollars have been paid out by Penn State because ...they wanted this all to go away?
OMG... how are certain members of our BOT not facing trial ?
Facing trial???!!!!!
The Chief Rat was just unanimously elected as Chairman of the Board........ with glowing recommendations of his "Leadership"....... by YOUR elected representatives
The Chief Rat was just unanimously elected as Chairman of the Board........ with glowing recommendations of his "Leadership"....... by YOUR elected representatives
The conspiracy charges weren't in the original charges against Curley & Schultz - they were added when Spanier was charged in the 11/1/2012 presentment. But you are correct - the commonwealth had consolidated all conspiracy charges into one count which the superior court later dismissed. But it appears the conspiracy charges on EWOC got reinstated. I think part of the Judge's order today should have had a ruling that the commonwealth's motion to reinstate that conspiracy to commit EWOC count was granted.
They already got a conviction on Sandusky (remember him?), so that is next to impossible.
Thanks Jimmy! To me this seems unfriginbelievablr that the judge reinstates conspiracy charges that were thrown out by the superior court - how is this even possible? I think everyone got their answer as to which side boccabella is on - CSS seem royally screwed. I would like to see some lawyers on the board comment on this.
Keep in mind, though, PA has a new Attorney General who was just sworn in a few weeks ago. He has no dog in this fight and if it is a weak case why should he be the one to lose it? Might be better to toss the charge and throw Corbett, Kelly and Kane under the bus. I can't imagine Shapiro (the new AG) wants this on his plate right now.
They also facing Obstruct Admin Law/Other Govt Function, (M2)
Joe, it is conspiracy about something different. The first was conspiracy to commit perjury which is gone. This is conspiracy to commit endangerment.
No, I can't forget and it won't be forgotten until the trial is over.
So wait, the lower court judge reinstated charges that the superior court dropped? Oh that'll go over well.
These guys have to be the first people in case law history to be charged with conspiracy to commit EWOC
These guys have to be the first people in case law history to be charged with conspiracy to commit EWOC
That is doubtful, though they might be trying to get someone to flip. As can be seen from the current result, CSS have been trying like all Hell to keep from going to court.
Each is facing two counts of "Endangering Welfare Of Children," (F3, each) one count of related Conspiracy (F3) and one count of "Obstruct Admin Law/Other Govt Function," (M2).
F3 is seven years each, M2 is two years. In theory, if they would be found guilty of everything and the sentences were given consecutively, they could get 23 years, though it is unlikely they would get consecutive sentences.
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In Sandusky's criminal trial, McQueary's testimony was viewed as more credible than Sandusky's. No shocker there.
In McQueary's civil suit against PSU, there was plenty of uncontroverted evidence of how badly/stupidly the University acted towards McQueary after the shit hit the fan. No battle of credibility there.
But if C/S/S go to trial, as it looks like they will, they will not be viewed anywhere near as negatively as the guy who actually or allegedly committed the abuses (Sandusky). And the testimony of all three off them weighed against McQueary and his varying versions of events? I'd bet on C/S/S.
One thing you are discounting is the fact that Curley and his family have been in State College forever. There is a huge amount of good will in the area for him. Same can be said for GS. The locals were also predisposed to believing homeboy MM. It will not be as difficult to find a fair jury as you think. This is not Sandusky and his heinous crimes. I don't get the impression that many, if any, of the locals think Curley did anything wrong of a criminal nature.
Nope, you are misreading that situation entirely. It is this type of misinterpretation that will be the reason that your guys lose. Not too many people will be surprised if there is another delay, followed later on by a complete dropping of charges. This thing isn't happening next month.
But isn't their trial in Dauphin county, not State College....I wish that would help them, but since it's in Harrisburg, who knows.
It doesn't take much deep thought to see how ridiculous that is. A conspiracy isn't something which happens accidentally. The AOG will need to show the accused actively communicated and conspired to commit EWOC. It's nuts.
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Trolling, are you kidding me. This is about as far as a reach that I have ever heard of. You are embarrassing yourself!
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Curley's friends..... Or Spanier's...... Or Schultz's..... Are not going to be on any juries
Who knows what will happen........
But among the folks who would make up a Centre County jury - - - - there would be ZERO sympathy for ANYTHING associated with "Big Shots at PSU"
I can guarantee that
And I expect it would be little better - if at all - anywhere in Central PA
Yeah, I did forget that. That's too bad, but on the other hand there are a lot of morons in Harrisburg!
While I agree with you, nothing that has gone to trial has gone like logic would dictate so i would be nervous. if I were them.
well i hope that is what they try to prove because is silly. A campus with 50,000 students and maybe 4-5 are 14 and TC/GS would be expected to presume it could be one of those 4-5. Also I thought the age was 10-12 not 14 but I could be wrong.
IMO the conspiracy charge is irrelevant. If a jury convicts them of endangering then they will necessarily believe they conspired to do so. But if they find them not guilty of endangering is there any chance, even 1%, that a jury would find them guilty of conspiring (but not guilty of actually carrying out the act they conspired to do)?
You're such a laughable f**k. I can't believe I neglected to have you on ignore. Until now.
Except for the stalking women part. Or the assuming the identities of respectable people thing. Its best if he leaves those things behind.
One thing that might be an interesting dynamic if this ever goes to trial - seems like the entire case will hinge on the credibility of MM and the three defendants. It all comes down to what he told them, or at least what a jury believes he told them.
IIRC at MM's civil trial versus PSU MM testified that Curley (maybe Shultz also) was a good decent man or words to that effect. If he were to say anything remotely close to that at this trial one would think it's game over and the prosecution fails.
There may not be the same level of adversarial interests at this trial between MM and the defendants as there was at the prior two trials. That may make him less effective.
IIRC at MM's civil trial versus PSU MM testified that Curley (maybe Shultz also) was a good decent man or words to that effect. If he were to say anything remotely close to that at this trial one would think it's game over and the prosecution fails.
There may not be the same level of adversarial interests at this trial between MM and the defendants as there was at the prior two trials. That may make him less effective.
How does a conviction of Sandusky absolve the OAG of malicious prosecution of CSS? That makes no sense. So I guess they could prosecute you for EWOC related to Sandusky and that would be OK because they convicted Sandusky?
So because they have competent attorneys who refuse to allow the OAG to get away with shenanigans like the Cynthia Baldwin debacle and creative interpretation of SOL that proves that they are trying to delay?
True but the 2 juries bought his testimony in different cases. The first against JS where no real cross examination of MM was done and JS was public enemy #1.
The second was in the wrongful termination suit where the idiots on the BoT/ administration did treat him differently leading to his win in that case. (Still don't know how the PSU lawyer hasn't been fired over approving those actions).
In the CSS case, MM will be seriously cross examined under a big spotlight. His inconsistencies in testimony, his letter to the OAG saying he was being misquoted and can't be sure what he saw, and his father/ Dranov's statements about nothing MM said that night reached the level of needing to call the police will be front and center. Most of that will be bombshell 'new' news to the average person put on the jury.
Clearly juries are not predictable and can do anything but in this trial MM's actions and statements will be front and center more than in the other 2. It will be interesting to see if this really does go to trial in March.
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