fc I feel for our OL, Articles/coach speech they get, 'Be Nasty' is not the problem

[sluggo72]

they are Nasty enough, what they need is out of impossible situations like this one:
vs MSU 70 is to block the DT, by himself, an almost impossible job. The DT because he is 1 on 1 with 70 has 3 ways he can go, inside, straight ahead, outside. Its a tough task to block him when he has 3 ways to go, and it is why many teams dont ask them to do it, because it is almost impossible.
Watch the LDT vs 70, he loops across his face, redirects and is quick enough to make the play. Yet CJF wants him to be more 'Nasty' Fire out!!! Fire out!! All PSU has to do is double the DT with 77, and they have a play.
(now what happens on the frontside is a different story, if 66 stays on the DT we have a play)


http://www.philly.com/philly/sports...e-line-nastiness-saquon-barkley-20171114.html

Impossible (NSFW) let it run and learn

 

[Art]

Oh, boy. I think it's not only the OL that needs to learn "consistency."

 

[sluggo72]

Oh, boy. I think it's not only the OL that needs to learn "consistency."

maybe you are referring to the D in cover 4 when we have no way to control the middle of the field, especially vs play action. But we can leave that for another day.

 

[Art]

maybe you are referring to the D in cover 4 when we have no way to control the middle of the field, especially vs play action. But we can leave that for another day.

No, I'm referring to something else.

 

[TrevYoung]

If you double team the two defensive tackles, you will need a sixth blocker to block one of the DEs. That means a TE will be required to stay in to block. For most of this season we haven't had anyone that can do that consistently.

 

[sluggo72]

If you double team the two defensive tackles, you will need a sixth blocker to block one of the DEs. That means a TE will be required to stay in to block. For most of this season we haven't had anyone that can do that consistently.

not really, if you watch the clip, they leave the the end man on the los alone anyway, 77 goes to the LBer, So you can still leave him alone, double the DT to the LBer on both sides and turn out with the other OT in this case. to hold the backside DE, the QB comes off the handoff, or he fakes the handoff, and keeps, or boots with a RPO. The QB action will should hold the DE. Now having a TE would be easier, but it can be done without him.

 

[WDLion]

not really, if you watch the clip, they leave the the end man on the los alone anyway, 77 goes to the LBer, So you can still leave him alone, double the DT to the LBer on both sides and turn out with the other OT in this case. to hold the backside DE, the QB comes off the handoff, or he fakes the handoff, and keeps, or boots with a RPO. The QB action will should hold the DE. Now having a TE would be easier, but it can be done without him.

I need a second opinion from Guns.

 

[TrevYoung]

not really, if you watch the clip, they leave the the end man on the los alone anyway, 77 goes to the LBer, So you can still leave him alone, double the DT to the LBer on both sides and turn out with the other OT in this case. to hold the backside DE, the QB comes off the handoff, or he fakes the handoff, and keeps, or boots with a RPO. The QB action will should hold the DE. Now having a TE would be easier, but it can be done without him.

What about run plays where they don't read a defender. They do run Zone plays where they try to block all the defensive lineman.

 

[Grant Green]

How does this explain the OL clearly missing blocks in the first half of Rutgers?
I'm sure that's Moorhead's fault as well.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

How does this explain the OL clearly missing blocks in the first half of Rutgers?
I'm sure that's Moorhead's fault as well.

Not just the OL either.

 

[sluggo72]

What about run plays where they don't read a defender. They do run Zone plays where they try to block all the defensive lineman.

okay , you want to block everybody bring the TE back in , no biggie, or as mentioned, control the backside DE with the treat of the QB run, have him carry out his fake.

 

[sluggo72]

How does this explain the OL clearly missing blocks in the first half of Rutgers?
I'm sure that's Moorhead's fault as well.

2 things, that's what I am trying to explain, our guys miss guys because we assign them a man to block as opposed to an area to block.
second, if you could link the said play it would be much easier to discuss.
for instance, in one of Callahan's gif's, he gets on the OL for giving up a sack when they bring a guy off the edge. They rushed 5 we had 5 to block, but the guy who is unblocked is rushing from outside the DE. that's not the OL's guy, that's TM guy. He either has to see that and go hot, or he has to make a call to the OL that triggers their blocking that way. They cant see that guy, they have the worse seat in the house, and when he makes that call he has to know that any other blizter coming his (TM's) as well.

 

[WDLion]

How does this explain the OL clearly missing blocks in the first half of Rutgers?
I'm sure that's Moorhead's fault as well.

Who called the play?

 

[Grant Green]

Who called the play?

Huh? So, all problems in a football game can be traced back to the play caller?
This criticism of Moorhead is maddening. Most of us lived through years of stagnant, dated, boring offense. We finally have a modern offense than can put up big points and people want to shred the OC? Crazy.

 

[joeparules]

not really, if you watch the clip, they leave the the end man on the los alone anyway, 77 goes to the LBer, So you can still leave him alone, double the DT to the LBer on both sides and turn out with the other OT in this case. to hold the backside DE, the QB comes off the handoff, or he fakes the handoff, and keeps, or boots with a RPO. The QB action will should hold the DE. Now having a TE would be easier, but it can be done without him.

I am definitely not an X and O guy, but I tried to see what made this particular play a disaster. Right off the bat the math doesn't work with 5 OL trying to block six in the box (4 DL and 2 LB), but I agree the option should hold the LDE (#48) and count as an extra "blocker". So given this, here are my observations (eat your heart out Oblivax) from right to left:

1. Wright ignores the LDE and goes down field to block the left ILB (#35) ... does his job and has no impact on the play
2. Mahon totally whiffs on the LDT (#93) right in front of him and then stands there with his thumb up his ass ... doesn't do his job and his man ends up in the backfield
3. McGovern pulls around Gonzo, almost gets run over by the RDT (Gonzo's man) and looks to block the right ILB ... appears to do his job with no impact on the play
4. Gonzo totally whiffs on the RDT (#99) right in front of him and goes down field to block the right ILB (#27 McG's man) ... doesn't do his job and his man tackles SB in the back field
   
5. Fries blocks the RDE (#98) ... does his job

So you end up with three DL in backfield (1 unblocked, 2 whiffs), 1 DL blocked and three OL blocking the two LBs. If the two OGs do at least a decent job of blocking and the play develops a little faster I can see SB running free in the secondary. Whether or not the 1 on 1 blocking schemes are to blame are for someone else to decide, but there isn't an RB in CFB history that would have done anything on this play with three DL in the backfield at the same time as the hand-off!

 

[WDLion]

Huh? So, all problems in a football game can be traced back to the play caller?
This criticism of Moorhead is maddening. Most of us lived through years of stagnant, dated, boring offense. We finally have a modern offense than can put up big points and people want to shred the OC? Crazy.

Whoa there. I was referring to one play, not the entire package.

 

[sluggo72]

Joe Moorhead gets paid over $1 million per year ,IIRC. I dont have a problem with his offense, nor have called for his or anyone's head. In fact I've said I like his passing attack. For the most part I like his running attack, except for a small part of it, that is the negative plays we get. And as I have pointed out, we get those negatives from some of the blocking schemes/techniques we use, imo. Look at the MSU clip above, there may be one OG in America that can make that block 70 was asked to make, and that guy is playing on Sunday. We need to revamp the way we scheme and techniques, and it will help our guys. I think our guys do a good job in pass protection.
There is no need to say, 'we need to be be Nasty', Nasty isnt going to help. Fire out, come off the ball!! isnt going to help Learning different things will.
watch this for 30 sec (or more if you will, NSFW)

 

[HazletonLion]

A confusing point of this offense is the mesh point, the linemen don't know who has the ball Trace, or Saquon, it's like zone blocking, looks more like a man has an area not a specific man.
In all fairness, i've been watching football a long time , and i have never seen anyone keyed as much as Saquon.

 

[TrevYoung]

If you watch the examples in the video that Jim McNally thinks shows good blocking technique and compare them to how PSU offensive lineman block, it is pretty obvious that they don't have good technique. Changing the blocking scheme alone is not enough to fix their running problems. The coaches must teach better technique.

 

[sluggo72]

If you watch the examples in the video that Jim McNally thinks shows good blocking technique and compare them to how PSU offensive lineman block, it is pretty obvious that they don't have good technique. Changing the blocking scheme alone is not enough to fix their running problems. The coaches must teach better technique.

and I agree with you , it just not scheme but technique, and I think I mentioned that, either way you put it, saying 'out kids need to be nastier' is not helping the cause.

 

[sluggo72]

I am definitely not an X and O guy, but I tried to see what made this particular play a disaster. Right off the bat the math doesn't work with 5 OL trying to block six in the box (4 DL and 2 LB), but I agree the option should hold the LDE (#48) and count as an extra "blocker". So given this, here are my observations (eat your heart out Oblivax) from right to left:

1. Wright ignores the LDE and goes down field to block the left ILB (#35) ... does his job and has no impact on the play
2. Mahon totally whiffs on the LDT (#93) right in front of him and then stands there with his thumb up his ass ... doesn't do his job and his man ends up in the backfield
3. McGovern pulls around Gonzo, almost gets run over by the RDT (Gonzo's man) and looks to block the right ILB ... appears to do his job with no impact on the play
4. Gonzo totally whiffs on the RDT (#99) right in front of him and goes down field to block the right ILB (#27 McG's man) ... doesn't do his job and his man tackles SB in the back field
   
5. Fries blocks the RDE (#98) ... does his job

So you end up with three DL in backfield (1 unblocked, 2 whiffs), 1 DL blocked and three OL blocking the two LBs. If the two OGs do at least a decent job of blocking and the play develops a little faster I can see SB running free in the secondary. Whether or not the 1 on 1 blocking schemes are to blame are for someone else to decide, but there isn't an RB in CFB history that would have done anything on this play with three DL in the backfield at the same time as the hand-off!

and my point Joepa is that Mahon whiffs because he was given an impossible situation!! Guys on Sunday cant make that block, so we say Mahon isnt nasty enough!!
What else do you notice about your post??
IMO it is why 70 played better at OT last year than he has at OG. The OG's here are given impossible jobs, at least the OT's are given blocks they can make, and more times than not, make them.

You are correct the front side is a mess, I think 74 thinks he is to combo with 66, 66 thinks he is to pull up into the hole. Its tough to tell, I dont know.

 

[sluggo72]

If you watch the examples in the video that Jim McNally thinks shows good blocking technique and compare them to how PSU offensive lineman block, it is pretty obvious that they don't have good technique. Changing the blocking scheme alone is not enough to fix their running problems. The coaches must teach better technique.

and good for you for watching the tape. You are correct Jim is teaching how to block (watch the pro tape for the schemes) now if you want to know who to block and why watch Alex here. This may be a little dated, I think the college coaches are from Florida circa 2005. That is Dan Mullen current HC of Miss State and his current OL coach, John H???? Any way the pro QB is Mike Vick when he was in Atlanta. BTW this more NSFW than Jim.

 

[TrevYoung]

and I agree with you , it just not scheme but technique, and I think I mentioned that, either way you put it, saying 'out kids need to be nastier' is not helping the cause.

Telling them to be "nastier" probably makes their technique even worse.