FC: Judge gives NCAA permission to file new response in Paterno lawsuit(updated w/ new NCAA filing)

[ralpieE]

When the charges against JS and CS were announced the AG of PA praised Joe for being a cooperative and helpful witness. The AG even expressed dismay at how PSU was treating Joe b/c it may deter others from cooperating with their prosecutions....not shocking you seemed to have missed that as you are way out to left field on a number of things....

+1

 

[michnittlion]

When the charges against JS and CS were announced the AG of PA praised Joe for being a cooperative and helpful witness. The AG even expressed dismay at how PSU was treating Joe b/c it may deter others from cooperating with their prosecutions....not shocking you seemed to have missed that as you are way out to left field on a number of things....

"cooperative and helpful witness" does not mean the same thing as "hero" ---- Bushwood is the one who used the word "hero."

In fact the dictionary definition of "hero" is "a person of distinguished courage and/or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities."

I'd argue that IF JoePa had gone to the police in February 2002, after it became apparent that his superiors did not, that would have been courageous and brave. Risking his job to do the correct thing. Definitely worthy of the "hero" tag.

 

[jerseylion109]

okay maybe I am naïve and I just forget but did the AG have and looked at the same emails freeh saw?

 

[ralpieE]

"cooperative and helpful witness" does not mean the same thing as "hero" ---- Bushwood is the one who used the word "hero."

In fact the dictionary definition of "hero" is "a person of distinguished courage and/or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities."

I'd argue that IF JoePa had gone to the police in February 2002, after it became apparent that his superiors did not, that would have been courageous and brave. Risking his job to do the correct thing. Definitely worthy of the "hero" tag.

 

[bjf1984]

Felony charges against C/S/S seem pretty tangible to me. The Freeh report is credible because the NCAA said so and the tangible proof sits in a lawyer's office in Philly protected by attorney client privilege.

"cooperative and helpful witness" does not mean the same thing as "hero" ---- Bushwood is the one who used the word "hero."

In fact the dictionary definition of "hero" is "a person of distinguished courage and/or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities."

I'd argue that IF JoePa had gone to the police in February 2002, after it became apparent that his superiors did not, that would have been courageous and brave. Risking his job to do the correct thing. Definitely worthy of the "hero" tag.

LMAO. I know it is all too reminiscent of the TOS never-ending circle jerk.........But it's just toooo good!

Someone pass NittWitt and CR another shovel!

 

[WeR0206]

"cooperative and helpful witness" does not mean the same thing as "hero" ---- Bushwood is the one who used the word "hero."

In fact the dictionary definition of "hero" is "a person of distinguished courage and/or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities."

I'd argue that IF JoePa had gone to the police in February 2002, after it became apparent that his superiors did not, that would have been courageous and brave. Risking his job to do the correct thing. Definitely worthy of the "hero" tag.

I knew you were going to play the semantics card. Regardless of your hairsplitting the OAG praised Joe for how he handled the matter. If thats not good enough for you then I dont know what is.

One of Joes superiors was effectively the commissioner of the UPPD and Joe put MM directly in touch with him. Joe and C/S for that matter couldnt really do much more since the one and only witness never felt compelled to even so much as make a written statement to UPPD so they could start a criminal investigation. Without MM ever taking that critical step the only recourse C/S had was to confront JS by telling him his inappropriate showering behavior was wrong and needed to stop, remove his guest privileges, and inform the people who were JS bosses and had direct control over his access to kids about the incident and PSU's new directives.....and that's exactly what they did.

 

[Aoshiro]

Actually it sounds factual which it clearly is. If what I said sounds stupid then I guess you would think that someone saying the sky is blue sounds stupid too. Judge Freeh drew his conclusions from the preponderance of the evidence he had at his disposal. Evidence that included 300+ interviews and thousands of documents that you nor I have heard or seen. Judges make these kind of assessments and judgements all the time and Freeh being a former prosecutor and Judge himself did just that. He has decades of experience doing this and just because you don't agree with him doesn't make him wrong.

Why is the university and Freeh so intent on preventing anyone from seeing this purported evidence? Over and over and over again we have heard the trustees and the administration say that they just want to "move on" and put this behind us. If there is evidence that proves Freeh's "reasonable conclusions" the surest way of putting this in the rearview mirror is to reveal this evidence to the world.

But we all know that the truth is there is no such evidence, don't we CR66? This is just another Louis Freeh snowjob like his accusations against Richard Jewell and Wen Ho Lee, and his laughable defenses of Nasser Kazeminy and the Ukranian crook Serhii Kliuyev. Freeh writes what he's paid to write, and he doesn't care who the client is as long as their money is green. He'll happily shill for an Iranian cult leader or a Russian-sympathizing mobster if the price is right.

Hiis conclusions were based on exponentially more information than just the couple of e-mails that Joebots religiously like to point to as their dense.

We are apparently supposed to believe that there is "exponentially more information," just like we are supposed to believe in the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, and the boogeyman.

Hint: If there were "more information" we would have seen it by now, so the trustees could shut us up and get us to move on. If there is "more information," you can bet your last dollar that it's the exculpatory information that Louis Freeh and Frank Fina decided to withhold. They are precisely the kinds of prosecutors that Judge Kozinski warns about.

 

[Aoshiro]

Hey Einstein, that's a perfect hat for you. Don't lose it. Do you realize that an injunction would likely have sent PSU and the NCAA into years of protracted litigation with no guarantee PSU would have prevailed? How hard do you think it might have been hiring a top flight coach and recruiting blue chip kids with just only a slight possibility that the NCAA's penalty might be upheld by the court? The continuing existence of all of PSU Athletics would have been on the line and PSU could have been expelled from the conference. Why do you think Gene Marsh recommended taking the deal?

Marsh didn't "recommend taking the deal." Rodney the Coward told Marsh that the university was unwilling to go through the enforcement process so Marsh was left to negotiate the best deal he could once the most reasonable course of action was taken off the table by the morons who have seized control of Penn State. Marsh's emails certainly don't suggest that he thought this was the best course for Penn State.

 

[Bushwood CC]

"cooperative and helpful witness" does not mean the same thing as "hero" ---- Bushwood is the one who used the word "hero."

In fact the dictionary definition of "hero" is "a person of distinguished courage and/or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities."

I'd argue that IF JoePa had gone to the police in February 2002, after it became apparent that his superiors did not, that would have been courageous and brave. Risking his job to do the correct thing. Definitely worthy of the "hero" tag.

Did not put the term in quotes - I made a general and accurate characterization of what the AG had to say at the Press Conference announcing the indictments. The AG made the statement during the portion of the PC where she was talking about MM & JVP being State's witnesses and praised their actions in regards to cooperating with the OAG and I believe she even used the terms "acted heroically" during the portion of PC where she was speaking about MM and JVP's involvement in the investigation.

 

[BobPSU92]

I'm still amazed that some of you continue to engage jim carnes (cr66) and michidiot. Put them on your ignore list!

 

[LundyPSU]

okay maybe I am naïve and I just forget but did the AG have and looked at the same emails freeh saw?

Yes

 

[LundyPSU]

"cooperative and helpful witness" does not mean the same thing as "hero" ---- Bushwood is the one who used the word "hero."

In fact the dictionary definition of "hero" is "a person of distinguished courage and/or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities."

I'd argue that IF JoePa had gone to the police in February 2002, after it became apparent that his superiors did not, that would have been courageous and brave. Risking his job to do the correct thing. Definitely worthy of the "hero" tag.

If JVP believed the matter was reported to DPW, why would he go to the police? Based on email evidence that we have seen, when Curley met with JVP the plan was to report it to DPW. We have not seen any evidence that JVP knew the plan later changed or was involved the change. Fina even confirmed that they found no evidence that JVP was involved in a cover up.

 

[michnittlion]

If JVP believed the matter was reported to DPW, why would he go to the police? Based on email evidence that we have seen, when Curley met with JVP the plan was to report it to DPW. We have not seen any evidence that JVP knew the plan later changed or was involved the change. Fina even confirmed that they found no evidence that JVP was involved in a cover up.

Yep, Curley met with JoePa on 26-February-2001, where the "plan" was revealed to Paterno.

Of course, one day later on 27-February-2001, Curley had decided to change the "plan."

Now, even if Paterno had no factor in Curley changing the "plan" ----- wouldn't you be curious (if you were Joe) why that Sandusky dude is still hanging around Penn State football so much as the calendar turns into March 2001 ... and April 2001 ... and May 2001 ... and June 2001 ... and July 2001, et cetera.

At some point, don't you at least ASK Curley: "hey, remember when you told me you were reporting Sandusky to the Department of Welfare? You DID do that right? It just seems strange, he's hanging around here just as much as always and it seems like business as normal. Again, you DID do that, right Tim?"

 

[lionlurker]

Carnes. Cancer. Little difference.

 

[BlueBand]

Yep, Curley met with JoePa on 26-February-2001, where the "plan" was revealed to Paterno.

Of course, one day later on 27-February-2001, Curley had decided to change the "plan."

Now, even if Paterno had no factor in Curley changing the "plan" ----- wouldn't you be curious (if you were Joe) why that Sandusky dude is still hanging around Penn State football so much as the calendar turns into March 2001 ... and April 2001 ... and May 2001 ... and June 2001 ... and July 2001, et cetera.

At some point, don't you at least ASK Curley: "hey, remember when you told me you were reporting Sandusky to the Department of Welfare? You DID do that right? It just seems strange, he's hanging around here just as much as always and it seems like business as normal. Again, you DID do that, right Tim?"

Ummmmm... that's with THE BENEFIT OF HINDSIGHT. That pesky phrase. Joe did ask McQueary if he was satisfied how it was handled. And Mike told him yes. Since Mike was the eyewitness, if he was satisfied...

Plus, Sandusky was told not to bring children around to the facilities to avoid these situations.

And depending on who you talk to, Joe might have known that Sandusky was cleared by the state in the previous incident.

So, is it not reasonable to conclude that Joe assumed that it was looked into, turned out to be nothing like the previous time, and that Sandusky was told not to bring children on campus to avoid any situations that could be misunderstood in the future?

WITH THE BENEFIT OF HINDSIGHT (e.g. knowing what we know now), you would think he would look into it more. But given what he knew at the time, his response is perfectly reasonable. At that time, no one knew Sandusky was a pedophile.

 

[pandaczar12]

I'm still amazed that some of you continue to engage jim carnes (cr66) and michidiot. Put them on your ignore list!

I'm amazed that people feel the need to constantly hang out with a group that almost entirely despises them. We all think the world is round, they feel the need to keep telling the rest of us it is flat.

At some point, don't you at least ASK Curley: "hey, remember when you told me you were reporting Sandusky to the Department of Welfare? You DID do that right? It just seems strange, he's hanging around here just as much as always and it seems like business as normal. Again, you DID do that, right Tim?"

When one of my trusted co-workers tells me "I'll take care of it" I trust that they will. In fact, following up with them can be insulting, especially if they are a superior. It's called trust, and I'm pretty sure Joe trusted Tim.

Even if Joe had asked, Tim most likely wasn't allowed to discuss the matter with Joe. Once Joe appropriately passed it on, it was out of his hands.

A logical person would assume that it was a false alarm by seeing him still around, even more likely if you knew about the false alarm in 1998.

Classic case of confirmation bias on your part.

 

[LundyPSU]

Yep, Curley met with JoePa on 26-February-2001, where the "plan" was revealed to Paterno.

Of course, one day later on 27-February-2001, Curley had decided to change the "plan."

Now, even if Paterno had no factor in Curley changing the "plan" ----- wouldn't you be curious (if you were Joe) why that Sandusky dude is still hanging around Penn State football so much as the calendar turns into March 2001 ... and April 2001 ... and May 2001 ... and June 2001 ... and July 2001, et cetera.

At some point, don't you at least ASK Curley: "hey, remember when you told me you were reporting Sandusky to the Department of Welfare? You DID do that right? It just seems strange, he's hanging around here just as much as always and it seems like business as normal. Again, you DID do that, right Tim?"

We don't know if he did or he didn't. Hell, we don't even know what was actually reported to JVP or what actions were taken or not. At best, we know one side of the story and admittedly even that is incomplete (and probably inaccurate).
Still amazes me that Penn Staters are so quick to hang JVP (and others) and burn PSU when we know so little about what actually happened. I get that others with no vested interest in Penn State will rush to judge and move on. But I still don't understand why Penn Staters are so quick to pass legal and moral judgment when we don't know who knew what and when, and what actions were taken or not taken.

 

[colt21]

"cooperative and helpful witness" does not mean the same thing as "hero" ---- Bushwood is the one who used the word "hero."

In fact the dictionary definition of "hero" is "a person of distinguished courage and/or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities."

I'd argue that IF JoePa had gone to the police in February 2002, after it became apparent that his superiors did not, that would have been courageous and brave. Risking his job to do the correct thing. Definitely worthy of the "hero" tag.

You'd argue wrong again michnit. You put so much conjecture into this its not even funny. I won't restate my credentials again, already have done that several times but I can assure you I have a ton of experience in these things.

When you are in Joe's role in something like this there is ONLY ONE WAY to handle it - and that is exactly how he did it. Get the book out, follow it to a T, and then get out of the way as any other actions by you can only cause more harm. If someone before or after you screws up you do NOT interject yourself in the situation - period.

So I'll simply try and make two points
1) There should be no conjecture as to what Joe did - when you do exactly as you should have there are no other alternatives. Its kind of like someone scoring an 'above and beyond' on an evaluation under the honesty category - its an impossibility. You can't be more honest than honest. So in this situation, you can't do exactly the right thing down to an absolute T and then other people who are not experts, like you, have the ability to apply a series of hypothetical 'what ifs'.

2) Second, and probably more importantly. Why do you even continue to discuss Joe in this. His role was as minimum as minimum could be. His entire time involved in the whole situation amounted to nothing more than a few hours. His role was simply that of an employee's supervisor who received a report and did what he was supposed to - not the coach of PSU football. I really do not like to do this but I will point out that every time that you, CR and the others focus on Joe you actually make the problem of child abuse worse - because, in putting the spotlight where it should NOT be, you continue to provide cover for where it should be. And only by exposing those dark areas can real progress be made.

This did not then, does not now nor NEVER should have had anything to do with Joe Paterno the football coach. Anyone who says otherwise simply does not know sh!t - does not care about children - is either a political hack or has some other personal axe to grind - AND continues to do damage.

 

[roswelllion]

Michnit,
Hello?? You are acting like the BoT and NCAA had no idea what was in the Freeh report and we all know they were talking amongst themselves all along. So perhaps if you are so sure the BoT acted appropriately in July 2012 you could explain why going through the process they didn't suggest to Freeh that he talk to the key players involved. [from both sides] or why the blistering and largely untrue summary at the press conference.
Also I agree with you that they should never had made this a public press conference and should have reviewed it in house. So why do you think they did that? And why such a prejudicial summary? [Freehs summary was much worse than the actual report] FWIW I have never ever heard of a group or CEO who commissioned and paid for an investigation not being given a heads up before public consumption. NOT EVER!!!
Your comments make it sound like they were dealt a bad hand and did the best they could while the realty appears they fixed the hand and then acted accordingly.

 

[michnittlion]

When you are in Joe's role in something like this there is ONLY ONE WAY to handle it - and that is exactly how he did it. Get the book out, follow it to a T, and then get out of the way as any other actions by you can only cause more harm.

Screw "the book."

"The Book" at places like Penn State University and Big Corporation X is written in a way that looks to protect the University/Corporation. "The Book" doesn't give a damn about what is morally right, it only cares about protecting the University/Corporation. "The Book" values preservation of the entity above anything and everything else.

God has a "book" too ---- and damn it, even if I put my job at risk, I'm following that book over the other one. Joe should have too. If he had, he may have been fired ... but there would be no debates anywhere in the college football world as regards Paterno's legacy. He would be considered a "hero" by all.

 

[michnittlion]

2) Second, and probably more importantly. Why do you even continue to discuss Joe in this.

Because I believe a critical lesson to take from Joe's life is this:

No matter what, no matter how hard it is, no matter how much risk you put yourself at, DO THE RIGHT THING.

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

Screw "the book."

"The Book" at places like Penn State University and Big Corporation X is written in a way that looks to protect the University/Corporation. "The Book" doesn't give a damn about what is morally right, it only cares about protecting the University/Corporation. "The Book" values preservation of the entity above anything and everything else.

God has a "book" too ---- and damn it, even if I put my job at risk, I'm following that book over the other one. Joe should have too. If he had, he may have been fired ... but there would be no debates anywhere in the college football world as regards Paterno's legacy. He would be considered a "hero" by all.

 

[colt21]

Because I believe a critical lesson to take from Joe's life is this:

No matter what, no matter how hard it is, no matter how much risk you put yourself at, DO THE RIGHT THING.

That's what I've been trying to tell you Mich - HE DID THE RIGHT THING -100% EXACTLY WHAT HE SHOULD HAVE TO A T.

 

[marshall23]

Yep, Curley met with JoePa on 26-February-2001, where the "plan" was revealed to Paterno.

Of course, one day later on 27-February-2001, Curley had decided to change the "plan."

Now, even if Paterno had no factor in Curley changing the "plan" ----- wouldn't you be curious (if you were Joe) why that Sandusky dude is still hanging around Penn State football so much as the calendar turns into March 2001 ... and April 2001 ... and May 2001 ... and June 2001 ... and July 2001, et cetera.

At some point, don't you at least ASK Curley: "hey, remember when you told me you were reporting Sandusky to the Department of Welfare? You DID do that right? It just seems strange, he's hanging around here just as much as always and it seems like business as normal. Again, you DID do that, right Tim?"

 

[Bushwood CC]

Screw "the book."

"The Book" at places like Penn State University and Big Corporation X is written in a way that looks to protect the University/Corporation. "The Book" doesn't give a damn about what is morally right, it only cares about protecting the University/Corporation. "The Book" values preservation of the entity above anything and everything else.

God has a "book" too ---- and damn it, even if I put my job at risk, I'm following that book over the other one. Joe should have too. If he had, he may have been fired ... but there would be no debates anywhere in the college football world as regards Paterno's legacy. He would be considered a "hero" by all.

What utter tripe and hogwash -- there is not a shred of evidence, not one iota of information that suggests that Paterno didn't do precisely what he thought was morally "right" including asking Mike McQueary, the party who made the report, multiple times if he was okay with how the matter was adjudicated. MM has stated that he told JVP he was good with it. BTW, MM has proven to be a liar and worked a football camp that Sandusky ran after the incident....he played in a flag football game with him....and was in his presence many times after the event and never showed this emotional revolt that he now claims. How would Paterno know that matter wasn't adjudicated properly - he wasn't the witness and had no idea of what happened and MM told him he was fine with how it was handled. Absurd to make the accusation that Paterno made decisions and choices that he knew to be "morally wrong" - this is a clearly UNRIGHTEOUS ad hominem attack on Paterno's character which is a very WRONG THING TO DO ACCORDING TO JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF who was the creator of the "Golden Rule" as an easy way to interpret the "Temporal Commandments" (Commandments 3 through 10 of Moses' Ten Commandments). In other words, you are a bloviating hypocrite that doesn't live to the very values and standards you are spouting off about!

 

[marshall23]

Sandusky did not hang around PSU football. Produce one witness who saw him at a practice. His access was to lift weights in the am, with coaches. He also would attend games. I doubt Joe ever saw him............fact.

 

[royboy]

Screw "the book."

"The Book" at places like Penn State University and Big Corporation X is written in a way that looks to protect the University/Corporation. "The Book" doesn't give a damn about what is morally right, it only cares about protecting the University/Corporation. "The Book" values preservation of the entity above anything and everything else.

God has a "book" too ---- and damn it, even if I put my job at risk, I'm following that book over the other one. Joe should have too. If he had, he may have been fired ... but there would be no debates anywhere in the college football world as regards Paterno's legacy. He would be considered a "hero" by all.

You've had some stupid, unrealistic arguments about this matter, but this is the worst. I'm not sure if the concept of hindsight is beyond you or you're just flaming.

 

[colt21]

That's what I've been trying to tell you Mich - HE DID THE RIGHT THING -100% EXACTLY WHAT HE SHOULD HAVE TO A T.

I know I'm responding to my own post but let me add a little more perspective for you....
Here is Pennsylvania we have something called the Child Protective Services Law (CPSL).
And, due entirely to this situation, the entire law was redone.
Here's the thing........even though the cause of the changes was Sandusky, there is not even one minute part of the changes that would reflect negatively on Joe. So after all we learned and all the changes that were made, nothing in the changes reflect poorly on Joe - others for sure but not Joe - quite telling don't you think?

 

[BobPSU92]

You've had some stupid, unrealistic arguments about this matter, but this is the worst. I'm not sure if the concept of hindsight is beyond you or you're just flaming.

A combination of being incredibly stupid and a troll. Everyone needs to put michidiot on their Ignore List. He's been arguing the same stupidity here for a few years. He can't understand some points and he doesn't want to understand others. Just write him off as an idiot and a troll and forget about him.

 

[pandaczar12]

A combination of being incredibly stupid and a troll. Everyone needs to put michidiot on their Ignore List. He's been arguing the same stupidity here for a few years. He can't understand some points and he doesn't want to understand others. Just write him off as an idiot and a troll and forget about him.

Being open minded, and being able to admit you are wrong is a lost quality in the internet age. I can't imagine going through life like him or CR66, what a terrible way to live.

 

[ralpieE]

Sandusky did not hang around PSU football. Produce one witness who saw him at a practice. His access was to lift weights in the am, with coaches. He also would attend games. I doubt Joe ever saw him............fact.

Jay emphatically stated that Jerry, nor children, were at Penn State practices, on the bench during games or Bowl games. This garbage about Joe "seeing Jerry" around Penn State is just that, garbage. Joe said he saw Jerry one time, and never again.

 

[Cruising Route 66]

Why is the university and Freeh so intent on preventing anyone from seeing this purported evidence? The university answered that question more than adequately in its response to the lawsuit filed by the dissident trustees. I suggest you go read it. Over and over and over again we have heard the trustees and the administration say that they just want to "move on" and put this behind us. If there is evidence that proves Freeh's "reasonable conclusions" the surest way of putting this in the rearview mirror is to reveal this evidence to the world.

But we all know that the truth is there is no such evidence, don't we CR66? Evidence about what specifically? This is just another Louis Freeh snowjob like his accusations against Richard Jewell and Wen Ho Lee, and his laughable defenses of Nasser Kazeminy and the Ukranian crook Serhii Kliuyev. Freeh writes what he's paid to write, and he doesn't care who the client is as long as their money is green. You mean like Dick Thornburgh, Jim Clemente, Fred Berlin, and Wink Wink Sollers? He'll happily shill for an Iranian cult leader or a Russian-sympathizing mobster if the price is right.

We are apparently supposed to believe that there is "exponentially more information," just like we are supposed to believe in the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, and the boogeyman. Go ask your buddy Lubrano and a few of his associates who was granted access to it in Philly if he/they would sign a non disclosure agreement. Notes from three hundred interviews I think qualifies as being exponentially more information than just the couple of e-mails the Joebots always point to when trying to exonerate JVP.

Hint: If there were "more information" we would have seen it by now, so the trustees could shut us up and get us to move on. If there is "more information," you can bet your last dollar that it's the exculpatory information that Louis Freeh and Frank Fina decided to withhold. They are precisely the kinds of prosecutors that Judge Kozinski warns about.

The public has no right to see it. Period. The information is protected by AC privilege and confidentiality agreements for reasons relating to ongoing litigations concerning victims, insurance companies and other parties. I just don't understand why people can't get that through their thick skulls.

 

[Cruising Route 66]

Marsh didn't "recommend taking the deal." Rodney the Coward told Marsh that the university was unwilling to go through the enforcement process so Marsh was left to negotiate the best deal he could once the most reasonable course of action was taken off the table by the morons who have seized control of Penn State. Marsh's emails certainly don't suggest that he thought this was the best course for Penn State.

Go read the depositions.

 

[WeR0206]

Jay emphatically stated that Jerry, nor children, were at Penn State practices, on the bench during games or Bowl games. This garbage about Joe "seeing Jerry" around Penn State is just that, garbage. Joe said he saw Jerry one time, and never again.

Yep. MM himself testified that after 2001 he never saw JS around the program. Boom end of story on that matter.

He also said that TC called him to follow up a few weeks after his talk with TC and Schultz and MM never expressed dissatisfaction, never said the police needed to be called, and never said more needed to be done.

So if the one and only witness told the admins he was satisfied then why exactly would they think otherwise? I guess freeh must have overlooked that testimony huh??

 

[Cruising Route 66]

Being open minded, and being able to admit you are wrong is a lost quality in the internet age. I can't imagine going through life like him or CR66, what a terrible way to live.

And I can't imagine going through life being uninformed and lacking critical thinking skills. Maybe you or some of the afflicted who live here can tell me what it feels like.

 

[royboy]

And I can't imagine going through life being uninformed and lacking critical thinking skills. Maybe you or some of the afflicted who live here can tell me what it feels like.

Actually, what you don't seem able to imagine is being wrong. Your arrogance (and perhaps lack of objectivity regarding BOT members that you know personally) have hampered you in this discussion.

 

[bjf1984]

And I can't imagine going through life being uninformed and lacking critical thinking skills. Maybe you or some of the afflicted who live here can tell me what it feels like.

 

[bjf1984]

 

[ralpieE]

Classic.

 

[simons96]

and yet he relentlessly shovels it on a daily basis. one has to wonder what mental defect propels him to do so