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FC/OT: Game of Thrones S8E2 - 'A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms' - Discussion Thread.....

The crypts are the worst place to hide when the dead can be raised.

Also, seems likely in Lyanna Stark's crypt is the hard proof that Jon is Aegon.


Both of this! They said 5 times “the crypt where it’s safest” which pretty much means it’s the worst place. Plus I don’t get how they don’t understand that. I’m betting Lyanna is raised for sure and in the process or aftermath they find the proof in her crypt.

On next weeks preview Danny even mentions “they’re already here”. I think they show Arya in the crypt so I guess she and Sam go all badass on the wights
 
It looked like a burn scar. Most likely from wildfire, which would fit WPB lion's theory that she is one of Qyburn's little birds. She didn't say who her brothers fought for, just that they were soldiers and died fighting.

Separately, when Bran revealed the Night King was coming for him specifically, did he say "He (Night King) has sent many three eyed ravens to find me.", or did I just hear him wrong?


I think he said the night king has come after him before and gone after many other 3 eyed ravens
 
Turn? She's the reason Khal Drogo died, her arrogance would have gotten her and her followers killed if not for Xaro Xohan Daxo's greed, she held John Snow prisoner on Dragonstone simply because he wouldn't bend the knee and has had to be reigned back in countless times by her advisors. All the while making bad moves right and left. The only good decisions she made have been when she killed the Masters to get the Unsullied and when she rode her Dragon north to rescue John and the gang. She's been a villain for a long time and has had her arrogance on display since her brother got his crown.

I know all of this. I mean "turn" as in right now she is fighting for the good side. Yes, she has been a power-hungry beeatch, and she has made some horrible moves, and she has allowed some bad things to happen all in the name of her ego and her passion to sit on the iron throne..... But all that being said, she is up at Winterfell fighting on the side of the living and fighting with Jon Snow. So technically, right now she is on the "good team", and fighting with the "good guys".

My post was that now she either goes total power-hungry beeatch and abandons the "good team" and takes her 2 dragons off to take the iron throne OR she goes total dark side and fires one of her dragons at Jon in an effort to kill him.

Either of those is a far worse than just some power hungry wanna-be queen who makes terrible decisions.
 
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Does Dany hold back the dragons in the upcoming battle knowing now she is not the first heir to the iron throne? Seems like the equation changed tonight.

I thought John’s look to her at the very end where they then match off was an acknowledgment of “time to get the dragons” and they went off to get them.
 
I thought John’s look to her at the very end where they then match off was an acknowledgment of “time to get the dragons” and they went off to get them.
She's not turning on the living, lol. My big question is: is the plan to have Jon ride Rhaegal during the battle. It seemed like it, but it is surprising no other character is questioning it, especially Sansa.

I agree with those that said fewer main character deaths rather than massive character loss. Goners: Beric, Greyworm, Podrick Possibly: Brienne, Davos, Theon. A lot but not show changing. I also don't think the Night King goes down.
 
Seems like they are definitely setting up Dany to turn bitch. Maybe not completely "bad" or "villain", but seems like her character is definitely leaning towards "the bitch is crazy to be queen" (along the lines of power crazy Cersei). Seems like every scene now has her doing some sort of bitchy move or bitchy comments about "her rightful spot on the throne".

It's almost too obvious to predict Dany to be doing something real dastardly or downright creepy. Does she take her dragons and bail? Does she turn a dragon and fire on Jon Snow to eliminate him from her beloved throne?
I’d love that. Then my prediction of the dragons identifying Jon might still come to fruition. She tells drogon to torch Jon and either it refuses or Jon’s not burnt. Sprinkle in a fight with the night king where she could have dragon torch then both, end the war and give her the throne. She struggles with the idea but finally orders them fried and kills the night king. Jon survives.

So then we’ve got Jorah returning to house Mormont. Wildlings integrated. Brienne knighted. A stark-targ on the iron throne. A stark-Baratheon taking over one of the kingdoms, I guess deciding between winterfell and Dragonstone. Sansa taking over winterfell or the vale of Arryn with whomever. Rickon getting something. Sam becoming a new type maester or hand of the king. The brothers Lannister ruling casterly rock. Missande and her people defended by the unsullied. Bran flies away. Theon and sis take over house Greyjoy.

Cersei, uron, Franken-mountain and caiban—who knows. But guessing she’ll likely survive and leave Westeros vowing to return.
 
She's not turning on the living, lol. My big question is: is the plan to have Jon ride Rhaegal during the battle. It seemed like it, but it is surprising no other character is questioning it, especially Sansa.

I agree with those that said fewer main character deaths rather than massive character loss. Goners: Beric, Greyworm, Podrick Possibly: Brienne, Davos, Theon. A lot but not show changing. I also don't think the Night King goes down.

If I had to rank them 1-5, with 1 being the most likely to die and 5 being the least:

1. Theon - Just seems like his entire return to Winterfell and then volunteering to defend Bran is his way of saying "I'm taking 1 for the team" ... so he does take 1 for the team.

2. Greyworm - Just seems like he is a pseudo-main character that would be easy to sacrifice on the logic of "this show kills it's main characters".

3. Podrick - Seems like this last episode they tried to make him more "personable" and more "likeable". Someone you'd have sympathy for. Makes sense to build that up then have him killed.

4. Jamie Lannister - I think Bran's comment to him last night about "what makes you sure we'll survive the battle" was a pretty blatant use of foreshadowing.

5. Brienne - see #3. Seemed like they really made an effort to make us like her last night and make her very "human".
 
My take on the look on Jon Snow's face when talking to Dany in the crypt: Dany is focused on Jon's claim to the throne; Jon is focused on them being brother and sister (thereby unable to continue their relationship).

My prediction is that Dany bails with the dragons and heads to King's Landing to take out Cersei and her army. She's therefore figuring that the wights will kill everybody. She can use her dragons to oust Cersei and worry about the Night King later. This plays in line with Sansa telling her that the North would never bend the knee again.

The Night King and the army of wights are destroyed by something Bran does. Then there is a race to King's Landing for the final battle for the throne.\
 
Both of this! They said 5 times “the crypt where it’s safest” which pretty much means it’s the worst place. Plus I don’t get how they don’t understand that. I’m betting Lyanna is raised for sure and in the process or aftermath they find the proof in her crypt.

On next weeks preview Danny even mentions “they’re already here”. I think they show Arya in the crypt so I guess she and Sam go all badass on the wights
Some great and creative thinking going on.

I highly doubt Lyanna is raised, although I wouldn’t be surprised if her and/or Ned’s crypt becomes even more significant. Remember, Caitlyn Stark is still alive. She may play some role in steering the Jon story, even if only in the books.

The girl with the greyscale is definitely significant, perhaps just for Jorah re Melisandre, but maybe the greyscale could give Jorah a chance of great heroics too. I’d be shocked if Jorah doesn’t come out a big hero somehow, even if he just goes down swinging. And caiban must have been doing something with his new Frankenstein chemistry. Would that storyline really end when he raised the Mountain? Does Cersei in exile take over some of the mainland kingdoms?

And maybe dany gets the iron throne but her white frozen throne room dream is real—is north of the wall where the dragons can roam. Somebody gets that. Wildlings (free folk) likely get a choice but otherwise...
 
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I’d love that. Then my prediction of the dragons identifying Jon might still come to fruition. She tells drogon to torch Jon and either it refuses or Jon’s not burnt. Sprinkle in a fight with the night king where she could have dragon torch then both, end the war and give her the throne. She struggles with the idea but finally orders them fried and kills the night king. Jon survives.

So then we’ve got Jorah returning to house Mormont. Wildlings integrated. Brienne knighted. A stark-targ on the iron throne. A stark-Baratheon taking over one of the kingdoms, I guess deciding between winterfell and Dragonstone. Sansa taking over winterfell or the vale of Arryn with whomever. Rickon getting something. Sam becoming a new type maester or hand of the king. The brothers Lannister ruling casterly rock. Missande and her people defended by the unsullied. Bran flies away. Theon and sis take over house Greyjoy.

Cersei, uron, Franken-mountain and caiban—who knows. But guessing she’ll likely survive and leave Westeros vowing to return.

Who is Rickon here?
 
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Just a couple of thoughts--sorry if others have already posted these:

1) When you have 5 or 6 characters saying, "the crypts are safe", the crypts are obviously not safe.

2) I like the idea of Dany turning the dragons on Jon Snow, and either the dragons refuse to harm Jon, or Jon doesn't burn.

3) Tyrion's mother died in childbirth and Tyrion freed the dragons from the dungeon without becoming a flame-broiled McNugget. If Tyrion is a Targaryen, which I believe he is, doesn't Tyrion have the highest claim to the Iron Throne above both Jon and Dany?
 
Who is Rickon here?
Funny you should mention that. Rickon (sp?) is the youngest stark. But after I wrote that, I kept thinking about it and remember it may have been rickon who was shot down by Ramsey Bolton while running to Jon before the last battle for winterfell. So he may not play into the various kingdoms. [EDIT I just checked and that’s right. Ramsey shot him in the “battle of the bastards.”]


But in terms of Sansa saying the north will never bend a knee, they may not have to. Winter is coming and a half stark and king of the North will likely take over the 7 kingdoms.
 
That last part would be awesome because Jon wouldn’t burn and it would solidify him as the true king

Unfortunately not true. Not all Targ's are immune to fire, in the books and the show. Dany's brother wouldn't have been hurt by his molten golden crown and John wouldn't have burnt his hand when he killed the wight at Castle Black. In Targaryen history, several where killed by fire, one even tried drinking wildfire and died.
 
Just a couple of thoughts--sorry if others have already posted these:

1) When you have 5 or 6 characters saying, "the crypts are safe", the crypts are obviously not safe.

2) I like the idea of Dany turning the dragons on Jon Snow, and either the dragons refuse to harm Jon, or Jon doesn't burn.

3) Tyrion's mother died in childbirth and Tyrion freed the dragons from the dungeon without becoming a flame-broiled McNugget. If Tyrion is a Targaryen, which I believe he is, doesn't Tyrion have the highest claim to the Iron Throne above both Jon and Dany?
1 is a near guaranty and I’ve suspected 2 since Dany learned to escape situations by torching dangerous places only to emerge Unburnt.

I’ve heard a few theorize the Lannister kids may have been targs. I always thought the best evidence of them not being targs was their hair wasn’t the right color. But I guess it’s possible since Jon has black hair. If so, then a targ DID burn kings landing with wildfire (technically twice since Tyrion did it too in the black water). And the only one who didn’t would be the true king—and the kingslayer.

Other point, targs inbred a lot. So why would Jon’s and Dany’s relationship have to end?
 
Unfortunately not true. Not all Targ's are immune to fire, in the books and the show. Dany's brother wouldn't have been hurt by his molten golden crown and John wouldn't have burnt his hand when he killed the wight at Castle Black. In Targaryen history, several where killed by fire, one even tried drinking wildfire and died.
I missed that.
 
Just a couple of thoughts--sorry if others have already posted these:

1) When you have 5 or 6 characters saying, "the crypts are safe", the crypts are obviously not safe.

2) I like the idea of Dany turning the dragons on Jon Snow, and either the dragons refuse to harm Jon, or Jon doesn't burn.

3) Tyrion's mother died in childbirth and Tyrion freed the dragons from the dungeon without becoming a flame-broiled McNugget. If Tyrion is a Targaryen, which I believe he is, doesn't Tyrion have the highest claim to the Iron Throne above both Jon and Dany?
Tyrion would be illegitimate.
 
She's not turning on the living, lol. My big question is: is the plan to have Jon ride Rhaegal during the battle. It seemed like it, but it is surprising no other character is questioning it, especially Sansa.

I agree with those that said fewer main character deaths rather than massive character loss. Goners: Beric, Greyworm, Podrick Possibly: Brienne, Davos, Theon. A lot but not show changing. I also don't think the Night King goes down.

I think Jamie goes over Brienne
 
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Dany has berated Tyrion a great deal in the first two episodes. I can't help but think that is going to bite her in the ass soon.

I believe the dead will be defeated. The real battle will be between Cersei, Dany and John for the Iron Throne. I don't believe any of them will win it.
 
Great episode.
Likes:
1. Tyrion being the only person to sit down with Bran Stark.
2. Tormund and the fire-side scene with Brienne was outstanding.
3. Bran Stark telling Jamie the things you do for love at his inquisition.

Dislikes:
1. Gendry and Arya Stark love scene. I said it was forced last week and here it is again, only really forced.
2. No one cares about the bad guy having a dragon.
3. Bran Stark telling why the undead are coming for him, sort of...I guess I wanted something grander.

I honestly have no idea where this forks next week. I am still leaning with Winterfell holds because the Night King and the dragon are heading south to convert King's Landing to the dead.
Winterfell holds: 50%
Winterfell falls with mass retreat: 25%
Everyone in Winterfell dies: 0%
Something else unexpected happens: 25%

Most likely not to make it to episode 4:
1. Theon
2. Greyworm
3. Brienne
4. The guy who is the only one left from the night's watch.
5. Davos
 
The crypts are the worst place to hide when the dead can be raised.

Also, seems likely in Lyanna Stark's crypt is the hard proof that Jon is Aegon.

While it seems like an obvious strategy for the night king to raise the dead from the Crypts, I don't think that is going to happen. I think it would come off as silly for Ned Stark to rise from the dead without his head. Further, I would imagine that all of the dead in the Crypts are in some form of coffin or other enclosure that would keep the dead from posing any threat to those hiding in the Crypts.
 
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Some interesting thoughts and predictions and a few things I'd like to respond to:

1. Dany being generally awful/villainous: I think the characterization that she's selfish and a poor decision maker is unfair. From the start, she was thrust into being 'queen' (traded as a sex slave for an army) and with few exceptions, is where she is and how she is because of bad advice. She didn't kill Khal Drogo - he was wounded in battle and near death after attacking Khal Ogo (and was probably going to die) when Dany bartered his horse in exchange for magic to cure him. Remember, at this time she's a teenager who's lived in exile most of her life. Unfortunately, we know what happened to Khal as a result of the 'magic' - it was a curse, he died, and their unborn child died too. Dany was ready to give it all up and kill herself (by laying on Khal's burning body) when it was revealed that fire couldn't hurt her. Since then, her piddling around Mereen was mostly at the advice of Jorah, and re-opening the gladiator pits was at the advice of either Tyrion or Varys (two really smart people who have made astronomically dumb decisions with Dany). Tyrion also suggested she negotiate with the slavers (who then attacked them), and whoever told her to split her army to attack King's Landing, Casterly Rock, and the Iron Fleet were idiots. Dany takes good advice when she gets it (see last night's episode with Jorah). And holding Jon Snow hostage makes sense - she has no reason to trust him (and has grown up believing nearly anyone from any respectable House would rather see her dead - especially the bastard son of Ned Stark, who helped overthrow her father, and who also approved a hit on her life when he learned where she was) but in the end, she does.

I do think they're trying to transition her to take a prideful fall, but I can't argue with why she is the way she is. She didn't have to do sh*t up North if she didn't want to; she's the only reason the North has any kind of chance at all. For this reason, I think either she, or Jon (but not both) will likely die before the end - their co-existence seems destined for doom.

2. Tyrion: Will be interesting to see what, if anything, he learned from his quick chat with Bran. Tyrion has been responsible for nearly every awful decision Dany has made, but he's bound to do something smart soon. Like, next episode soon.

3. Girl with facial scar/burn: Definitely think she may be part of Cersei's plan for Dany after someone here said that; especially with what looks to be a burn potentially caused by being around the wildfire in the Sept.

4. I'm also in the camp who thinks the army of the dead will fall next episode and that the real battle will be among the living for the Iron Throne. We'd get the North vs. Dany vs. Cersei and I think that's what everyone wants to see.
 
Great episode.
Likes:
1. Tyrion being the only person to sit down with Bran Stark.
2. Tormund and the fire-side scene with Brienne was outstanding.
3. Bran Stark telling Jamie the things you do for love at his inquisition.

Dislikes:
1. Gendry and Arya Stark love scene. I said it was forced last week and here it is again, only really forced.
2. No one cares about the bad guy having a dragon.
3. Bran Stark telling why the undead are coming for him, sort of...I guess I wanted something grander.

I honestly have no idea where this forks next week. I am still leaning with Winterfell holds because the Night King and the dragon are heading south to convert King's Landing to the dead.
Winterfell holds: 50%
Winterfell falls with mass retreat: 25%
Everyone in Winterfell dies: 0%
Something else unexpected happens: 25%

Most likely not to make it to episode 4:
1. Theon
2. Greyworm
3. Brienne
4. The guy who is the only one left from the night's watch.
5. Davos

None of the people being predicted to die have the Ned Stark / Rob Stark impact that makes this series so different. I think there is going to be a big, unexpected death that leaves that pit in your stomach. I predict Arya is the big death that happens next episode that nobody wants to happen. The scene with Gendry is the reason for my prediction. It kind of came out of the blue and softens the landing for Arya's death by allowing viewers to say "at least she didn't die a virgin."
 
While it seems like an obvious strategy for the night king to raise the dead from the Crypts, I don't think that is going to happen. I think it would come off as silly for Ned Stark to rise from the death without his head. Further, I would imagine that all of the dead in they Crypts are in some form of coffin or other enclosure that would keep the dead from posing any threat to those hiding in the Crypts.

Well, the next episode is titled "We're F'ed - the Crypts aren't Safe!"
 
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My take on the look on Jon Snow's face when talking to Dany in the crypt: Dany is focused on Jon's claim to the throne; Jon is focused on them being brother and sister (thereby unable to continue their relationship).

My prediction is that Dany bails with the dragons and heads to King's Landing to take out Cersei and her army. She's therefore figuring that the wights will kill everybody. She can use her dragons to oust Cersei and worry about the Night King later. This plays in line with Sansa telling her that the North would never bend the knee again.

The Night King and the army of wights are destroyed by something Bran does. Then there is a race to King's Landing for the final battle for the throne.\
I know all of this. I mean "turn" as in right now she is fighting for the good side. Yes, she has been a power-hungry beeatch, and she has made some horrible moves, and she has allowed some bad things to happen all in the name of her ego and her passion to sit on the iron throne..... But all that being said, she is up at Winterfell fighting on the side of the living and fighting with Jon Snow. So technically, right now she is on the "good team", and fighting with the "good guys".

My post was that now she either goes total power-hungry beeatch and abandons the "good team" and takes her 2 dragons off to take the iron throne OR she goes total dark side and fires one of her dragons at Jon in an effort to kill him.

Either of those is a far worse than just some power hungry wanna-be queen who makes terrible decisions.

Not sure why everyone seems to be turning on Dany. She's no more of a bitch than Sansa or Arya, although Arya is the coolest bitch. If she does turn bad it will be after the battle. She knows what's coming and knows there will be nothing to rule over if the dead win. My guess is that she may lure the whites into the crypts and torch them, walking out after they are dead. Her and John will then go south after the real bitch, Cersei and one of them will die in the battle therefore solving the dilemma of which Targarian will rule. Or, the potential "little bird" could get her in the crypts, but not with fire of course.
 
The weapon Gendry for Arya is the "Waif's" weapon. I'm a bit intrigued by that

For me it took some of the excitement/mystery away. I was thinking that it was going to be some type of super medieval nuke weapon. But really, it makes sense to simply be a waif's weapon because she trained so much with them. It logically be a weapon she is most comfortable using.
 
For me it took some of the excitement/mystery away. I was thinking that it was going to be some type of super medieval nuke weapon. But really, it makes sense to simply be a waif's weapon because she trained so much with them. It logically be a weapon she is most comfortable using.
Will probably kill a few whites with it.
 
4. I'm also in the camp who thinks the army of the dead will fall next episode and that the real battle will be among the living for the Iron Throne. We'd get the North vs. Dany vs. Cersei and I think that's what everyone wants to see.

There's been a lot of time setting up the Iron Islands as a last stand against the Walkers, so I would expect our heroes end up having to escape to there & regroup.

If so, they will be safe from Wights, except for the Undead Dragon (which may die in Ep 3), while Cersei & Kings Landing are exposed.

Episode 4 will be the Wights coming for Kings Landing, which Cersei, Mountain, & some others will evacuate (to Iron Islands) with Euron GreyJoy.

This sets up the Iron Islands as the spot for a big battle for Westeros Humanity, Clegane Bowl, and then the United Kingdoms, with Reinforcements from Essos etc will do the final battle with Night King.
 
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For me it took some of the excitement/mystery away. I was thinking that it was going to be some type of super medieval nuke weapon. But really, it makes sense to simply be a waif's weapon because she trained so much with them. It logically be a weapon she is most comfortable using.

It also detaches in the middle to make two weapons. So, in that sense, it's a bit different than the Waif's weapon.
 
Great episode.


I honestly have no idea where this forks next week. I am still leaning with Winterfell holds because the Night King and the dragon are heading south to convert King's Landing to the dead.

Now THAT would be a great twist. Have the Night King's army go to King's Landing first--kill Cersei and everyone there to build up their army. Then have the augmented Night King's army attack Winterfell from the south, with the undead Cersei at the Night King's side. You should be a writer for the show, BiochemPSU!
 
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Midnighter...I agree with all 4 of your pts above.
Dany is simply being true to her character; how could she not respond as she did.
Really...this entire show for 8 years has been the struggle between these two women...Dany and Cersei. with one trying to reclaim the throne as the last of her family, and the other trying to keep it for her family, and she now being in effect, in her mind, the last of her family.
Dany and Cersei are the two main characters in all of it, with Jon coming in 3rd.

That little girl...was just too perfect. Something is afoot.
Cersei is diabolically clever.

I am going to try to quit reading anything about this, so I can be completely surprised next week.
 
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That little girl...was just too perfect. Something is afoot.
Cersei is diabolically clever.

While possible, this episode was so much about simply taking stock of the main characters and where they came from and how they've developed, prior to next week's battle scene (a lot of that development being redemptive in nature - Theon, Jaime, Jorah, the Hound, etc.). Having a girl that looks a bit like Shireen, in a scene with both Davos and Gilly (both of whom, Shireen played a large role), very succinctly accomplishes that for the viewer with these two characters. While Jaime's story can be summarized with conversations with Brienne and Tyrion, Theon's story with a hug with Sansa and pledging to protect Bran, the Hound with a conversation with Arya and Beric, Arya with that scene as well as the one with Gendry (etc. etc.), there is really no one for Davos here that perfectly sums up his journey. Hence - evoking Shireen with the girl.
 
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I have no idea what will happen next week aside from the battle.

Everyone thinks they are going to die, so who knows.

I do think some will sacrifice themselves to save others.

I also think that the Night King will be winning. In classic GOT fashion, an army or someone could show up at the last minute to save the day. This could be Melisande. Or all will be looking lost when Arya or Bran does something dramatic. What we do know if that Arya can fight in the dark, and about the only that can be gleaned from the season 8 trailer is her running in the halls scared.

Or the Night King could win the battle and lose the war, but in the meantime, the group gets scattered or several slink to the Iron Islands or elsewhere. That will be difficult unless someone shows up with ships, which is unlikely. And only so many can get on the dragons. So escape for the masses doesn't seem possible, and what more can be learned to defeat the Night King. Sam has read the books, Bran has seen the past, who else could show up with new info.? There is the theory of burning the tree, but who comes up with that?

What we do know, is that after this episode, there are only three episodes left. So, if there is a battle with Cersei that is likely to happen in episode 5 or 6. The Night King story line likely has to be wrapped up no later than episode 4.
 
Both of this! They said 5 times “the crypt where it’s safest” which pretty much means it’s the worst place. Plus I don’t get how they don’t understand that. I’m betting Lyanna is raised for sure and in the process or aftermath they find the proof in her crypt.

On next weeks preview Danny even mentions “they’re already here”. I think they show Arya in the crypt so I guess she and Sam go all badass on the wights

I think "they're already here" is a response to Jon/Aegon attempting to explain that he has no desire to be king. As in, "we have more important shit to deal with now!". I don't think it has anything to do with the crypt.
 
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