FC/OT: Millennial Men and the labor market...

[psuro]

For now. But they’d better learn to respect and tolerate people who are willing to work and destined to surpass them on the food chain.

See, I disagree - I don't think they have the luxury.

Without going into the political rabbit hole....this is the part of the socio-political landscape that all political leaders have not spoken of - If you don't want the job, someone else will come and take it and do it. Whether it's truck driving, picking strawberries, or cleaning toilets - someone will do it if you think you are too good to do it. And one by one, you are going to get left behind.

 

[JWB389]

What about the military? That is the *perfect* lifestyle for someone not sure of what they want to do. Not to mention all the post-service benefits.

I don't have a military background, but I tend to think that if they feel disrespected by the treatment at the WalMarts of the world, they would have a hard time adjusting to the discipline levels of the military. Still, a good point though.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

What about the military? That is the *perfect* lifestyle for someone not sure of what they want to do. Not to mention all the post-service benefits.

I knew early it was a good route for me and was going to join. But without my dad around, I couldn’t invite the risk of not coming back for my mom and sister. I know I made the right decision for them. Still not sure if it was the best one for me and growing up. It happened, but i know it took longer.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

See, I disagree - I don't think they have the luxury.

Without going into the political rabbit hole....this is the part of the socio-political landscape that all political leaders have not spoken of - If you don't want the job, someone else will come and take it and do it. Whether it's truck driving, picking strawberries, or cleaning toilets - someone will do it if you think you are too good to do it. And one by one, you are going to get left behind.

I don’t think we disagree. Maybe I made my point badly. Those willing to work are destined to pass those relaxing on the sidelines.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

I don't have a military background, but I tend to think that if they feel disrespected by the treatment at the WalMarts of the world, they would have a hard time adjusting to the discipline levels of the military. Still, a good point though.

It’s certainly not for everyone, but if you want training, travel, etc. there are worse ways to spend a few years. Plus the college money and VA benefits are good. Of course, could always be (and likely will) be sent to a combat zone, but that’s the risk.

 

[LionDeNittany]

The career of Trucker won't exist in 15 years. Another casualty of technology.

Regardless of whether or not they think they are too good for Target or Walmart, even if they didn't and worked there, it wouldn't be enough to support even a lower middle class life.
And again, technology will devour those jobs as well in the next 15 years.

People need to wake up and see what is happening and stop with the finger pointing and arrogance.

Blame the robots. After all, if not for robots we would have millions of high paying phone operator positions. How on earth will we replace those jobs.

LdN

 

[83wuzme]

How many of these Millenial males grew up with out any sort of father or father figure ? I would bet more than any preceding generation in America. I would bet that has at least something to do with it.
I used the word “ males “ because they don’t act or think like men.

 

[Grass]

Thanks for sharing.....I have been anecdotally seeing this trend for last five years. Coming from a GenX mind state with Greatest Generation work ethic these Millennials drive me crazy. I sell to corporations across all verticals and see many of them overhauling there offices-creating an almost Apple-Google work environment with glass common area work spaces, bring your dog to work, games and bean bags everywhere and these environments not even from tech companies. These companies know they need to attract the millienials as they are the new workforce. Unreal....choices? I call it soft society.

I work for a contractor (Wireless Telecom) in the SF Bay Area and do a lot of bid walks and I'm amazed how these offices are set up. The Zynga office is basically a giant playground.

 

[LionDeNittany]

I work for a contractor (Wireless Telecom) in the SF Bay Area and do a lot of bid walks and I'm amazed how these offices are set up. The Zynga office is basically a giant playground.

Most of those SF/Valley companies are fueled by cheap/free capital. At some point there will be a shift and the offices will change.

Until then, this will continue to be the way they are set up because revenue is what matters, not profitability.

LdN

 

[BBrown]

Fascinating article. Just...wow.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...paign=news&utm_medium=bd&utm_source=applenews

Really, really interesting and yea just wow. SMH.

 

[BBrown]

From the article:

"Butcher has a high-school diploma and a resume filled with low-wage jobs from Target and Walmart to a local grocery store. He’s being selective as he searches for new work because he doesn’t want to grind out unhappy hours for unsatisfying compensation.

“I’m very quick to get frustrated when people refuse to pay me what I’m worth,” he said. His choosiness could be a generational trait, he allows. His mother worked to support her three kids, whether she liked her job or not.

“That was the template for that generation: you were either working and unhappy, or you were a mooch,” he said. “People feel that they have choice nowadays, and they do.”"

I don't know what to say.

I guess they do have a choice, as long as they have parents that are alive and will put up with their freeloading ass.
Talk about entitlement.

 

[ftlpsu]

What about the military? That is the *perfect* lifestyle for someone not sure of what they want to do. Not to mention all the post-service benefits.

Midnighter you are 100% right this is the way to go for any young person of any race who is vacillating and not sure of what to do.....I took this path albeit not everyone is cut out for combat arms etc....or Army/Marines....but there are options and its a great launching point. There are financial benefits as well as soft skill benefits that this article is referencing. We all know the old school adage "Its work why you get paid".

When I got out in 94' there were 3 states that took 50% off tuition for instate veterans-PA/TX/CA. So while in Army I changed my residency from MD to PA 6 months prior to ETS-this is legal. Well PSU at the time for in-state was like $7600? I paid $3500 and got $800 per month for the GI Bill....no debt when I graduated.

I try and tell every young person who is unsure of their future how to take a continuous slow path to what they want for themselves.

Someone earlier stated "Choices" well thats just it right? Choices. Remember Scent of a Woman and the last seen by Pacino it went something like this "There are two paths-easy path and hard path and I always knew the right path but didn't take it" something like that...anyway.

 

[BBrown]

Thanks for sharing.....I have been anecdotally seeing this trend for last five years. Coming from a GenX mind state with Greatest Generation work ethic these Millennials drive me crazy. I sell to corporations across all verticals and see many of them overhauling there offices-creating an almost Apple-Google work environment with glass common area work spaces, bring your dog to work, games and bean bags everywhere and these environments not even from tech companies. These companies know they need to attract the millienials as they are the new workforce. Unreal....choices? I call it soft society.

I'm ok with people bringing their dogs to work. I like dogs better than most people.

 

[GreggK]

How is "technology" gonna' replace the process that moves a box of shit from Point A to Point B?

Autonomous Vehicles .

Yeah, people just want to pretend that this isn't coming. If a company like amazon can get rid of its biggest cost, people, then it will be thrilled to do so.
the technology is there. Already, most of the warehouses operate autonomously for the most part. Huge swaths of middleclass jobs are going to be decimated.

 

[BBrown]

What about the military? That is the *perfect* lifestyle for someone not sure of what they want to do. Not to mention all the post-service benefits.

No way, c'mon Midnighter you more than anyone knows what kind of commitment it takes to be in the military.
First time someone looks at them "hard" they'll quit and run back to mommy and daddy.

 

[ftlpsu]

I'm ok with people bringing their dogs to work. I like dogs better than most people.

Agree as well--I always say that "I like dogs and kids better than adults"

 

[Obliviax]

Lost me with the MSM stuff...

I googled "truckdriver" and hit "images". 99% older white guys who look like they beat there wives. Perhaps unfair of me to say "MSM"....but not sure who can influence the "brand" of truck drivers in general.

 

[GreggK]

Blame the robots. After all, if not for robots we would have millions of high paying phone operator positions. How on earth will we replace those jobs.
LdN

ahh yes, such a great point you make.

 

[JWB389]

Truck drivers get a bad rap. They are commonly portrayed as being red-necks, rubes. This is exactly what kids hate as the MSM has fueled those stenotypes. Plus, the MSM is telling us truck drivers are "going away" soon. I've often though of getting a truck driving job for a few years as a cushion between my high stress, high paying job and retirement. Uber is always an option!

I've thought about getting my CDL as well, but I would only driver locally, maybe a 20' straight truck. Never a big rig.

I hear all of the "truck drivers going away" reports. Based on my experience in the industry, I just don't see it happening in our lifetime.

 

[GreggK]

I don't have a military background, but I tend to think that if they feel disrespected by the treatment at the WalMarts of the world, they would have a hard time adjusting to the discipline levels of the military. Still, a good point though.

Do you think if they went and worked at Walmart that they could go out and live on their own?
Not unless of course they go on Welfare. Just another way a company like Walmart reaps the rewards of government benefits.

 

[JWB389]

I googled "truckdriver" and hit "images". 99% older white guys who look like they beat there wives. Perhaps unfair of me to say "MSM"....but not sure who can influence the "brand" of truck drivers in general.

There was a time 20 years ago when that may have been accurate. I rarely see an old white guy driving a truck any more. The vast majority that I come in contact with are young, foreign born men. They may technically be "white" but not what the google search shows.

 

[TheBumble]

I drove across the state on the PA turnpike through the middle of the night a couple weeks ago. The highway was nothing but trucks. Every rest area was packed with parked trucks and they spilled out to the side of the road. It was unbelievable.

 

[Victor E. Bell]

I googled "truckdriver" and hit "images". 99% older white guys who look like they beat there wives. Perhaps unfair of me to say "MSM"....but not sure who can influence the "brand" of truck drivers in general.

There are lots of vlogs on youtube by truckers who talk about what the industry is like and they represent many races and backgrounds. There are several women who vlog about it as well. Not for everybody. Industry is frought with a lot of problems and you're never home but some of the drivers are young and unattached and get into it to make some good money for awhile and then go do something else. Some have been doing it for many years as it is a lifestyle that suits them. The media does seek to give the industry a bad rap and I've seen it first hand.

 

[PSUSignore]

The career of Trucker won't exist in 15 years. Another casualty of technology.

Agreed. I expect the trucking industry to be one of the first widespread adopters of driverless cars, as soon as the government allows it. Maybe human drivers will be needed for the "last mile" at the origin and end point, but on the highways human truck drivers are on borrowed time.

 

[JWB389]

Do you think if they went and worked at Walmart that they could go out and live on their own?
Not unless of course they go on Welfare. Just another way a company like Walmart reaps the rewards of government benefits.

I'm with you there. An entry level retail job will not support a family. I don't have the answers and don't want to get into a political discussion. You have to WANT to work.

 

[Cletus11]

I don't see autonomous trucks coming out in the next 5-10 years such that most trucking is gone in 15 years. Hell, autonomous cars are still years away let alone going to the next level of trucking. Maybe more like 30 years.

As for millennial's, tough to group all of them in one big lump. I do think there generally speaking the expectations of them are way,way higher than reality. a lot of that comes from internet and TV and social media where guys like Zuckerburg and reality TV stars are in their 20's and multi-millionaires and they think why not me. Plus, many of them lived a much higher level of lifestyle growing up then any generation before them such they assume they should be living the same way when they go out on there own. but with the world economy, the standard of living in the USA is only going to go down from where it is now. USA is now the highest cost of labor about anywhere. The debt loads and pensions due are pushing taxes higher and higher every year and are exponentially growing. There is going to be another great recession coming in the next decade and it is going to be a very long one with a lot of reset going to happen as it just has to when you look at macro-economics. That is one reason i think you see a lot of millennials wanting socialism (besides never being taught in school the pitfalls of socialism and communism as that was removed from most high school curriculum) as they see the lack of jobs moving forward and would rather have the government pay for everything. what they don't recognize is that the standard of living they will have under the socialism/communisim model where the government runs everything with sky high taxes on the private sector is that the standard of living will be way, way less than it is now. that is the massive rub that millenials don't see.

 

[JWB389]

I drove across the state on the PA turnpike through the middle of the night a couple weeks ago. The highway was nothing but trucks. Every rest area was packed with parked trucks and they spilled out to the side of the road. It was unbelievable.

The parking situation is due to changes in trucking laws in the last year.

 

[Lion84]

I guess this Kid felt no obligation to take care of his kids - I wonder who is paying to support them? rhetorical of course. I work with Construction Companies and they have a huge labor shortage in entry and project manager ranks - these are good jobs. I have had them tell me people apply and when they tell them they need to take a drug test they just walk out the door - crazy.

 

[PS4814]

I've thought about getting my CDL as well, but I would only driver locally, maybe a 20' straight truck. Never a big rig.

I hear all of the "truck drivers going away" reports. Based on my experience in the industry, I just don't see it happening in our lifetime.

Agreed. We were supposed to have flying cars by now and cold fusion is always just around the corner. Yes there are several companies developing them right now, but when the rubber meets the road there will be large hurdles to making self driving trucks a reality in daily life. Laws have to be put in place nation wide, and just wait for the first time a major accident with fatalities occur on I-80 during a whiteout.

 

[LionDeNittany]

Do you think if they went and worked at Walmart that they could go out and live on their own?
Not unless of course they go on Welfare. Just another way a company like Walmart reaps the rewards of government benefits.

Have you ever met a Wal-Mart cashier you thought... well there's a really talented person I want to hire? No. Well, on occasion. Why? Because quality employees are in such high demand they get promoted and advance quickly.

That is true for almost all retail businesses. If you show up, do your job in just a few months you will be promoted and / or hired away.

The real problem is people like you who think a cashier position is a dead end job. That idea permeates, which is why people have no jobs at all.

Plenty of friends from HS are now Store GMs or better and they started as cashiers in their late teens. Many/most of them have higher paying jobs than college grads whose parents gave them money for school.

LdN

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Do you think if they went and worked at Walmart that they could go out and live on their own?
Not unless of course they go on Welfare. Just another way a company like Walmart reaps the rewards of government benefits.

Well, no, but is that a ‘generational’ issue? Or more nuanced? This article sort of suggests a philosophical change in ideology, not some kind of real or imagined barriers to entry that are insurmountable.

 

[Obliviax]

Agreed. I expect the trucking industry to be one of the first widespread adopters of driverless cars, as soon as the government allows it. Maybe human drivers will be needed for the "last mile" at the origin and end point, but on the highways human truck drivers are on borrowed time.

Agreed, but with shortages, a great option for someone that simply wants to work another 5 to 10 years before moving onto something else.

 

[PAgeologist]

I see, every time I go and down the NJ Turnpike, the ad for the local heavy equipment union - right in front of their "training area", with cranes, dozers, etc. So it's not necessarily not happening from my perspective.

I just went through some contractor invoices for one of my government clients - they have to pay the guys prevailing wage - the apprentice was making $14/hour. Anyone with a level of skill and experience was not less than $30/hour. Top level guys were making $65/hour.

I don't know if they work 2000 hours per year at those salaries, but these are some good numbers, for that level of education.

Get into some of the trade unions in NYC, and they sky could very well be the limit.

I have done a fair amount of construction inspection in my career, mostly on union/ prevailing wage jobs. I can assure you that I was the least well paid person on those jobs, by a good amount. And I have a bachelor's degree. At one point I seriously considered quitting and joining a trade union.

Thankfully I have a much better job now.

 

[psuro]

I have done a fair amount of construction inspection in my career, mostly on union/ prevailing wage jobs. I can assure you that I was the least well paid person on those jobs, by a good amount. And I have a bachelor's degree. At one point I seriously considered quitting and joining a trade union.

Thankfully I have a much better job now.

Yeah, it can be sobering fact of life. But, you worked at your career, made more money. You had drive and focus. And that is one of the things that the individual in the article seemed to lack.

 

[PAgeologist]

It’s certainly not for everyone, but if you want training, travel, etc. there are worse ways to spend a few years. Plus the college money and VA benefits are good. Of course, could always be (and likely will) be sent to a combat zone, but that’s the risk.

My cousin just joined the Marines, with much the same thought process as many here have mentioned. He may make a career out of it or he might get out once he can get the GI school money.

 

[Ranger Dan]

I had worked as a busboy in a diner during the summer between HS graduation and enlisting in the army. I think I had a week off between them. I had a job within three days of discharge from the army. Since then I have had a single work day gap in employment. When leaving my first real full time job, my last day was on Friday but I didn’t start my next job until Tuesday (giving myself a three day weekend). That Tuesday was September 11, 2001. Clearly, the gods were not pleased with my three day weekend! I’ve also had up to two part time jobs in addition to my full time job as well as completing my BS degree. Feel free to call me an old man or whatever, but clearly recent generations of Americans are not motivated.

 

[ImaWright]

Many of you put forth ideas that are absolutely on the mark, the softness of the millennials, the coddling that caused it, the great options like driving truck or military service. All dead on IMO. However, in my mid-40s, I can admit that generations before mine were successively tougher and had stronger work ethic. It’s not just these millennials, it’s been a slow degradation of work effort tied to less physical work, greater standard of living, less threats, and more coddling. But unfortunately for these millennials, I think they are close to a breaking point. We cannot continue to increase our standard of living under a generation that never had to work and now almost refuses to unless there is a playground environment and not too much pressure.



A quote by Michael Hopf, “Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”



Well, we have created a generation of weak men and that doesn’t bode well for our future as a Nation. I think the emphasis DOES need to be placed on parents to be parents and teach kids responsibility, don’t fight their battles for them, develop a little mental and physical toughness. But that takes toughness on the part of the parent. It’s easy to be a buddy. It’s easy to let it slide. It’s easy to pay for that new whosiewhatsit. But dang it, make your kids work for things they want. It’s the best thing you can do. I believe that our happiness is mostly derived from things we create, things we achieve, people we impact, not from what is handed to you or the newest this or that. Kids are struggling more mentally right now BECAUSE they don’t work for what they want and their self-worth sucks because everybody gets the same trophy and they didn’t have to work for any of it.


You want to change that. Start at home. Make kids take on responsibility around the house. Make them work the pushing carts at Sam’s club type of jobs or McDonalds or mowing lawns and shoveling snow. Join the military. If the kid is soft, there is a good chance this will change that and in a hurry. I did, made money off of going to college, was sent back to get masters making 6 figures as a grad student, and retired in my early 40s. Yeah, you’re going to spend some time in combat zones but that is part of the deal. Or just go and do an initial commitment, leave with the post-911 GI bill to pay for 4 years of college, tons of training and experience leading, and a little understanding of real work ethic.

 

[ForesterGump]

My son would be considered a millennial man. He lacked drive or mission. Always looking for the short cut to life. I don't know how you parent that into a kid. Also spent a ton of time playing video games. It does away with the social aspect of life. Also, the amount of time kids spend within the educational system is a lot more than that spent with parents.

He wanted to go on a school trip, and I made him get a job to pay for it. He went to a community college and was going for elementary ed and quit 1 term before getting the associate degree and went into daycare. When he quit school, he paid rent.

He started working at a casino as a dealer. He loves playing games. He started taking online courses and racked up debt. I told him, when he gets a degree, I'll pay half. After 4 years of screwing around, he quit the school.

He thought he wanted to be a floor manager. He became one and hated it. He's now back to dealing cards. He makes a really good living, or so he says. He doesn't date, drink, or do drugs. He also lives 100 miles from me, and his life is his own. He's gotten into a couple of financial jams, which we bailed him out. He said he'll repay us, but never comes up with the cash.

I don't know how you can instill work ethic. We now live with too many distractions. You have TVs that have hundreds of channels, cell phones that demand attention, and video games that suck up hours of time.

I've noticed that everyone has talked about trucking, construction or military. Do you really think the unemployed millennial is tough enough to do that kind of work?

 

[Ranger Dan]

I'm ok with people bringing their dogs to work. I like dogs better than most people.

It doesn’t work well with medical device of pharma company...

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

My son would be considered a millennial man. He lacked drive or mission. Always looking for the short cut to life. I don't know how you parent that into a kid. Also spent a ton of time playing video games. It does away with the social aspect of life. Also, the amount of time kids spend within the educational system is a lot more than that spent with parents.

He wanted to go on a school trip, and I made him get a job to pay for it. He went to a community college and was going for elementary ed and quit 1 term before getting the associate degree and went into daycare. When he quit school, he paid rent.

He started working at a casino as a dealer. He loves playing games. He started taking online courses and racked up debt. I told him, when he gets a degree, I'll pay half. After 4 years of screwing around, he quit the school.

He thought he wanted to be a floor manager. He became one and hated it. He's now back to dealing cards. He makes a really good living, or so he says. He doesn't date, drink, or do drugs. He also lives 100 miles from me, and his life is his own. He's gotten into a couple of financial jams, which we bailed him out. He said he'll repay us, but never comes up with the cash.

I don't know how you can instill work ethic. We now live with too many distractions. You have TVs that have hundreds of channels, cell phones that demand attention, and video games that suck up hours of time.

I've noticed that everyone has talked about trucking, construction or military. Do you really think the unemployed millennial is tough enough to do that kind of work?

My brother is 40 and has probably worked 50+ retail jobs after passing on college. He lives paycheck to paycheck and quits jobs regularly (which is why he can never claim unemployment). He’s not a millennial and we had the same parents. No idea what happened.