Finebaum ALREADY BITCHING... 😂

[KCLion]

True, but if those teams like Alabama and Ole Miss would have replaced some SEC team for the FCS type teams, they play at the end of the year. It would definitely look better.

I’m confused - I don’t understand this.

My point is the SEC folks look at the Big records across the board and call them mediocre because many have an extra loss to another Big team because of the 9 game schedule. SEC has 8 game schedule and half don’t have that extra loss that would be guaranteed in a 9 game schedule.

Take Illinois for example - assume they only played 8 conference games. They lost to Oregon, PSU, and their worst loss Minny. Had Minny not been on this schedule and they had another mid level P4 or FCS game that they would likely win, they would have argument over all of those 3-loss teams in the SEC.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

Who is to say SMU, Indiana or Clemson couldn’t beat those teams? That the problem everyone always inflates the SEC because of their conference.

Based on Tennessee's performance, it's really hard to say. Keep in mind, Tennessee beat Alabama.

 

[m.knox]

Isn't this entire thread questioning Finebaum---a paid professional?
I know you're stupid but this is new level stupid
Paid professionals are questioned all the time. You probably didn't know Backus existed until 3 minutes ago or that he's a Tennessee guy

Everyone trusts Finebaum over a self absorbed baloney ass.

 

[LandoComando]

Everyone trusts Finebaum over a self absorbed baloney ass.

I thought that's what people thought he was
Again the thread is not trusting a paid professional but you're too stupid to understand that so you attacked me with your normal nonsense proving just how dumb you are. Thanks for being you

 

[Hotshoe]

Not as right as he thinks. The reality is year in and year out, there are about six teams in the conversation. From there, window dressing.

If you look at it, most of the recent Championship games have been blowouts. They simply need to get rid of the top 4 ranked Conference Champions bye, and go by top 4 rankings for the byes.

 

[m.knox]

I thought that's what people thought he was
Again the thread is not trusting a paid professional but you're too stupid to understand that so you attacked me with your normal nonsense proving just how dumb you are. Thanks for being you

LOL.. "attack?" Is playing with a cat using a laser pointer an "attack?"

 

[doctornick]

I’m confused - I don’t understand this.

My point is the SEC folks look at the Big records across the board and call them mediocre because many have an extra loss to another Big team because of the 9 game schedule. SEC has 8 game schedule and half don’t have that extra loss that would be guaranteed in a 9 game schedule.

Take Illinois for example - assume they only played 8 conference games. They lost to Oregon, PSU, and their worst loss Minny. Had Minny not been on this schedule and they had another mid level P4 or FCS game that they would likely win, they would have argument over all of those 3-loss teams in the SEC.

Exactly this. The SEC has been milking the 8 conference games situation for years helping to buff up the records across the conference. Most SEC teams only play 9 power 4 teams in a season and those extra cupcake games are extra wins

 

[Hotshoe]

If folks are arguing which team at 11 and 12 belong, they likely don't belong, and it doesn't matter. This is about more representation, and it's working fine except the auto byes. Fix that and everything is good. If you don't want to watch the 1st round, then don't. No one bitches about this regarding NCAA basketball with 68 teams. Good grief, it's only 12 teams.

 

[Hotshoe]

That's not true at all--Tennessee was overrated but they got the worst possible scenario against the most talented (not the best team) after they lost to Michigan. Ohio State is the one team I don't want to play

Michigan, with no offense, beat tOSU at the Shoe. Oregon is the best until proven they are not.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

If you look at it, most of the recent Championship games have been blowouts. They simply need to get rid of the top 4 ranked Conference Champions bye, and go by top 4 rankings for the byes.

That, or just go to a fully-seeded 16-Team Bracket based on Final CFP Rankings and let them just settle it on the field - especially if you're going to give automatic to to 5 Conf Champs. It doesn't extend the season at all. It eliminates the arguments on who should be in or out on the bubble of a 12-Team which is greatly increased when you're giving an auto-bid to highest 5 Conf Champs and eliminating #11 Ranked team as a result.

 

[Hotshoe]

That, or just go to a fully-seeded 16-Team Bracket based on Final CFP Rankings and let them just settle it on the field - especially if you're going to give automatic to to 5 Conf Champs. It doesn't extend the season at all. It eliminates the arguments on who should be in or out on the bubble of a 12-Team which is greatly increased when you're giving an auto-bid to highest 5 Conf Champs and eliminating #11 Ranked team as a result.

OMG, we can't do that. The world would end. More games? Oh the horror. No one ever says this about the 1st round of basketball.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

If folks are arguing which team at 11 and 12 belong, they likely don't belong, and it doesn't matter. This is about more representation, and it's working fine except the auto byes. Fix that and everything is good. If you don't want to watch the 1st round, then don't. No one bitches about this regarding NCAA basketball with 68 teams. Good grief, it's only 12 teams.

It isn't working fine - they ELIMINATED the #11 Ranked CFP Team prior to the Playoffs via one of their convoluted rules trying to shrink a 16-Team Bracket down to only 12 teams. What is the magic of a 12-Team Bracket that eliminates the 11th best team in favor of #16 according to the Final CFP Rankings and gives a 1st RD bye to the #12 and #9 ranked teams according to the Playoffs own Seeding Rankings???? How does that make more sense than just populating the full 16-Team Bracket with 1-8 hosting 9-16 and letting them determine it on the field???

 

[OzLion]

Can we let give the current system a few years before we go "tweaking" or "fixing" it? I have bad memories of people constantly modifying the BCS to fix system to counter the previous year's errors, and having that backfire the next year.

In theory, computer models would be a good selection method; in practice, everyone will scream if the computers spit out an answer that is different from what the 'experts' think, so we end up with a committee anyhow.

Lane Kiffin et al need to take a hard look in the mirror - Ol' Miss is much more talented than SMU and Indiana, so how did he let them lose their way out of playoff contention?

Ten in-conference games is a good solution to help even out the within-conference schedules.

I like giving spots to conference champions - that's a clear reward for reaching a tangible goal that is not purely subjective.

 

[bison13]

I’m confused - I don’t understand this.

My point is the SEC folks look at the Big records across the board and call them mediocre because many have an extra loss to another Big team because of the 9 game schedule. SEC has 8 game schedule and half don’t have that extra loss that would be guaranteed in a 9 game schedule.

Take Illinois for example - assume they only played 8 conference games. They lost to Oregon, PSU, and their worst loss Minny. Had Minny not been on this schedule and they had another mid level P4 or FCS game that they would likely win, they would have argument over all of those 3-loss teams in the SEC.

If the SEC went to nine conference games then yes some of those teams would have an extra loss, but they would also have a better win so while all three of Alabama Ole Miss and South Carolina probably would not have all added a win doing this at least one of them should have and thus giving a greater case for them to get the last spot.
Plus, maybe they get a game against Mississippi State or somebody where that game at minimum will be looked at as something to raise their strength of schedule versus playing Mercer.

 

[fastlax16]

It isn't working fine - they ELIMINATED the #11 Ranked CFP Team prior to the Playoffs via one of their convoluted rules trying to shrink a 16-Team Bracket down to only 12 teams. What is the magic of a 12-Team Bracket that eliminates the 11th best team in favor of #16 according to the Final CFP Rankings and gives a 1st RD bye to the #12 and #9 ranked teams according to the Playoffs own Seeding Rankings???? How does that make more sense than just populating the full 16-Team Bracket with 1-8 hosting 9-16 and letting them determine it on the field???

Alabama eliminated themselves.

The basketball tournament has fringe teams that are better than the actual 15/16 seeds that get left out every single season, they don't bitch about needing to blow the whole damn thing up.

Oklahoma was the first team out of March Madness last year. Did they deserve to be in over Stetson, Longwood, Wagner or Grambling State?

 

[GreatBasinNit]

That's not a sales job anyone is buying that is preaching the SEC
Do you honestly believe that the SEC isn't better than the ACC? I have no doubt Tennessee, Bama and USCe all beat SMU and Clemson. Probably Ole Miss and even someone like A&M that's not even ranked
The ACC is just garbage
It's the SEC/Big Ten then teams just hanging out for the cash they get for losing to real teams

You have “no doubt” that Tennessee would beat SMU and Clemson? I have doubts. In fact I have a lot of doubts after watching that game last night. OSU could have named the score and Tennessee looked punchless. Indiana played OSU tougher than Tennessee. Tennessee, a team that beat Bama.

 

[LandoComando]

Michigan, with no offense, beat tOSU at the Shoe. Oregon is the best until proven they are not.

Agreed but Ohio Stare has the best defense

 

[LandoComando]

You have “no doubt” that Tennessee would beat SMU and Clemson? I have doubts. In fact I have a lot of doubts after watching that game last night. OSU could have named the score and Tennessee looked punchless. Indiana played OSU tougher than Tennessee. Tennessee, a team that beat Bama.

No they didn't. Indiana ran clock against Ohio State to give the illusion it was close

 

[AvgUser]

If you look at it, most of the recent Championship games have been blowouts. They simply need to get rid of the top 4 ranked Conference Champions bye, and go by top 4 rankings for the byes.

No. “ Rankings” are subjective. Establish list criteria and run with it. Cream will rise to the top.

Doe the NFC sout deserve a playoff spot? Rhetorical Question, but yes they do.

 

[LandoComando]

No. “ Rankings” are subjective. Establish list criteria and run with it. Cream will rise to the top.

Doe the NFC sout deserve a playoff spot? Rhetorical Question, but yes they do.

Subjectivity is better than rewarding mediocrity as they did this year

 

[fastlax16]

Subjectivity is better than rewarding mediocrity as they did this year

It was inevitable. There weren’t 12 teams that were better than mediocre, it’s just what flavor of mediocre you prefer. Very good record against poor sos or good sos with horrific losses. There isn’t a right answer.

 

[doctornick]

It was inevitable. There weren’t 12 teams that were better than mediocre, it’s just what flavor of mediocre you prefer. Very good record against poor sos or good sos with horrific losses. There isn’t a right answer.

12 is a pretty good number that whatever the “first team out” is, they almost certainly will be mediocre in some way that justifies their exclusion.

To me, it comes down to not “did SMU deserve to be in?” (it’s debatable) but rather “Is it wrong that Bama [or Miami-FL or USCe, etc] is out?” And the answer there is “no” since all those borderline teams had sufficient flaws to warrant them not making it in.

I don’t think there’s a “problem” if a three loss team of any sort doesn’t make it. I don’t see any non mediocre team that was excluded.

 

[fastlax16]

12 is a pretty good number that whatever the “first team out” is, they almost certainly will be mediocre in some way that justifies their exclusion.

To me, it comes down to not “did SMU deserve to be in?” (it’s debatable) but rather “Is it wrong that Bama [or Miami-FL or USCe, etc] is out?” And the answer there is “no” since all those borderline teams had sufficient flaws to warrant them not making it in.

I don’t think there’s a “problem” if a three loss team of any sort doesn’t make it.

I don't think its a problem at all. Every team capable of winning the title is in the field. Mission accomplished.

 

[ryoder1]

I don't really think it's clear that a team like South Carolina is technically better than SMU. USC needed a last minute TD to overcome Clemson. The same Clemson that needed a last second field goal to beat SMU. They're all about the same, imo. SMU just didn't play up to their capabilities today, just like Bama didn't against Vandy and OU. This season is just a different animal.

I want to be clear. I don't want a system where they start devaluing wins and losses to the point where they would put 3 and 4 loss SEC teams in over a one loss team like Indiana or a 2 loss team like SMU that loses a heartbreaker in their CCG. I am simply pointing out that all these blowhards who say Indiana and SMU don't belong could be technically right that yes, could Alabama have played PSU tougher than SMU did? Or is Alabama flat out better than SMU? I think so. So yeah, did Bama belong more than SMU? Based on the criteria I just referenced, then yes. Same with an Ole Miss and even A&M.

The problem is no one has a good solution. That is what my point is. Herbstreit can complain all he wants that Indiana didn't belong but that is the system that he is a part of. In order to start putting a Bama in that had 3 losses or an Ole Miss then you would need to overhaul the ranking and selection system. You would need to make the process even more subjective based on "eye tests" and put a very high weighting on sos while minimizing losses. You probably need to start deferring to Vegas as a reference point also. Do we want that? I don't.

I think the best solution would be to eliminate humans. Set up an agreed upon set of metrics at the beginning of the season including a strength of schedule one. Develop an algorithm. Yes, I understand you need humans to determine the metrics but I feel better about humans or a committee that could come up with a logical set of metrics that everyone could agree upon. The trouble is when these humans are given all the power of selecting the teams. They are biased. March Madness works fine imo because we are talking about 68 teams. When you are forced to select 12 it is more subjective and controversial.

 

[PAgeologist]

I want to be clear. I don't want a system where they start devaluing wins and losses to the point where they would put 3 and 4 loss SEC teams in over a one loss team like Indiana or a 2 loss team like SMU that loses a heartbreaker in their CCG. I am simply pointing out that all these blowhards who say Indiana and SMU don't belong could be technically right that yes, could Alabama have played PSU tougher than SMU did? Or is Alabama flat out better than SMU? I think so. So yeah, did Bama belong more than SMU? Based on the criteria I just referenced, then yes. Same with an Ole Miss and even A&M.

The problem is no one has a good solution. That is what my point is. Herbstreit can complain all he wants that Indiana didn't belong but that is the system that he is a part of. In order to start putting a Bama in that had 3 losses or an Ole Miss then you would need to overhaul the ranking and selection system. You would need to make the process even more subjective based on "eye tests" and put a very high weighting on sos while minimizing losses. You probably need to start deferring to Vegas as a reference point also. Do we want that? I don't.

I think the best solution would be to eliminate humans. Set up an agreed upon set of metrics at the beginning of the season including a strength of schedule one. Develop an algorithm. Yes, I understand you need humans to determine the metrics but I feel better about humans or a committee that could come up with a logical set of metrics that everyone could agree upon. The trouble is when these humans are given all the power of selecting the teams. They are biased. March Madness works fine imo because we are talking about 68 teams. When you are forced to select 12 it is more subjective and controversial.

I don't think there is a perfect system. Either by humans or computers.

Unless you make a hard rule. 12 or 16 teams. 3 or 4 from each P4 conference. Solely based off record like the NFL.

ND would be forced to join a conference.

The remaining conferences would be left in the cold.

 

[LandoComando]

I don't think there is a perfect system. Either by humans or computers.

Unless you make a hard rule. 12 or 16 teams. 3 or 4 from each P4 conference. Solely based off record like the NFL.

ND would be forced to join a conference.

The remaining conferences would be left in the cold.

The ACC and Big XII can't have the same as the others. It's why the proposal for 14 is...
Big Ten/SEC 4
Big XII/ACC 2
with 2 at large with 1 going to the highest G5.
That's a step in the right direction though I still think the Big XII/ACC getting 2 is ridiculous.

 

[ryoder1]

The ACC and Big XII can't have the same as the others. It's why the proposal for 14 is...
Big Ten/SEC 4
Big XII/ACC 2
with 2 at large with 1 going to the highest G5.
That's a step in the right direction though I still think the Big XII/ACC getting 2 is ridiculous.

The more teams added starts to solve this quagmire. We could see a 16 team format within 4 years.

 

[joeaubie21]

Hobos like Boise State don't deserve to be in the playoffs.

 

[Aardvark86]

If you look at it, most of the recent Championship games have been blowouts. They simply need to get rid of the top 4 ranked Conference Champions bye, and go by top 4 rankings for the byes.

Agreed. Ok to get in by winning your conference but the bye structure makes no sense. But either way, 8-12 have no chance. They’re there for (1) the revenue, (2) to justify more teams from the best conferences who are better than them, and (3) to mitigate antitrust risks.

 

[doctornick]

The more teams added starts to solve this quagmire. We could see a 16 team format within 4 years.

What “quagmire”? What exactly are you trying to solve? Adding more teams only means there are more undeserving ones that get in.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

I want to be clear. I don't want a system where they start devaluing wins and losses to the point where they would put 3 and 4 loss SEC teams in over a one loss team like Indiana or a 2 loss team like SMU that loses a heartbreaker in their CCG. I am simply pointing out that all these blowhards who say Indiana and SMU don't belong could be technically right that yes, could Alabama have played PSU tougher than SMU did? Or is Alabama flat out better than SMU? I think so. So yeah, did Bama belong more than SMU? Based on the criteria I just referenced, then yes. Same with an Ole Miss and even A&M.

The problem is no one has a good solution. That is what my point is. Herbstreit can complain all he wants that Indiana didn't belong but that is the system that he is a part of. In order to start putting a Bama in that had 3 losses or an Ole Miss then you would need to overhaul the ranking and selection system. You would need to make the process even more subjective based on "eye tests" and put a very high weighting on sos while minimizing losses. You probably need to start deferring to Vegas as a reference point also. Do we want that? I don't.

I think the best solution would be to eliminate humans. Set up an agreed upon set of metrics at the beginning of the season including a strength of schedule one. Develop an algorithm. Yes, I understand you need humans to determine the metrics but I feel better about humans or a committee that could come up with a logical set of metrics that everyone could agree upon. The trouble is when these humans are given all the power of selecting the teams. They are biased. March Madness works fine imo because we are talking about 68 teams. When you are forced to select 12 it is more subjective and controversial.

It really doesn't matter whether you make the selection via the CFP Final Rankings or an Official CFP Computer Algorithm, at the end of the day, they should fully populate the 16-Team Bracket because it is really hard to distinguish any of the teams ranked from 9-16. #1 playing #16 on their home field is a big enough reward for being seeded #1. Alabama was ranked #11 in the Final CFP Rankings and should have been in the Bracket except for the silly 12-Team bye system they use.

 

[Lion_Backer]

Agreed. Ok to get in by winning your conference but the bye structure makes no sense. But either way, 8-12 have no chance. They’re there for (1) the revenue, (2) to justify more teams from the best conferences who are better than them, and (3) to mitigate antitrust risks.

I was listening to a pundit on sports talk radio over the weekend. He seemed to believe that the problem was that there was too big an advantage for the schools hosting a home game and that those games should be played at a neutral site (bowl?).

I don't know. That will make for a significant amount of travel and cost for the fan base of any team that played in the 1st round and made it to the championship game.

The people who like to point out that the after market price of our tickets for the game against SMU need to understand the price of admission is but one component in the cost of attending a home game in State College.

Nepotism hire Jack Hillgrove (son of Pitt play by play announcer Bill Hillgrove) made relative low cost and availability of tickets to our game the theme of his show on Pitt SportsTalk 93.7 the FAN in Pittsburgh.

I quickly turned it off as I don't suffer fools well. I heard that there was a significant amount of negative feedback regarding that obnoxious tool from PSU nation.

 

[PSUMATT85]

It isn't working fine - they ELIMINATED the #11 Ranked CFP Team prior to the Playoffs via one of their convoluted rules trying to shrink a 16-Team Bracket down to only 12 teams. What is the magic of a 12-Team Bracket that eliminates the 11th best team in favor of #16 according to the Final CFP Rankings and gives a 1st RD bye to the #12 and #9 ranked teams according to the Playoffs own Seeding Rankings???? How does that make more sense than just populating the full 16-Team Bracket with 1-8 hosting 9-16 and letting them determine it on the field???

One was a conference champ and actually won something on the field, while the #11 ranking was 100% subjective.

 

[NittanyLionRoar]

What it came down to this time is that we knew Alabama, Ole Miss, and USCe didn’t belong because they proved it during the season with bad losses. Indiana and SMU likely didn't belong among the championship contenders but no one knew because they didn’t have bad losses during the season, so their ceiling was unclear.

I think the committee did the right thing to rule out the teams we knew didn’t belong. This selection gave the teams with unknown ceiling a chance to see how high that ceiling was. They just happened to prove they weren’t national title contenders like Bama, Ole Miss, and USCe already had.

 

[Obliviax]

What it came down to this time is that we knew Alabama, Ole Miss, and USCe didn’t belong because they proved it during the season with bad losses. Indiana and SMU likely didn't belong among the championship contenders but no one knew because they didn’t have bad losses during the season, so their ceiling was unclear.

I think the committee did the right thing to rule out the teams we knew didn’t belong. This selection gave the teams with unknown ceiling a chance to see how high that ceiling was. They just happened to prove they weren’t national title contenders like Bama, Ole Miss, and USCe already had.

Yeah. And they benefited financially from being in big conferences. Two edge sword if they are complaining about SOS.

I don’t like the crazy conference tie ins and guarantees. Just take the top 12 and be done with it

 

[KCLion]

Yeah. And they benefited financially from being in big conferences. Two edge sword if they are complaining about SOS.

I don’t like the crazy conference tie ins and guarantees. Just take the top 12 and be done with it

Then you might as well let ESPN pick 8 SEC teams plus ND in the preseason for the post season playoff.

 

[LandoComando]

Then you might as well let ESPN pick 8 SEC teams plus ND in the preseason for the post season playoff.

The fact you don't think they'd have the Big Ten in is laughable. If we truly want the 8 best this year it would be Oregon Penn State Ohio State Georgia Texas Tennessee Notre Dame then Bama or USCe

 

[Obliviax]

Then you might as well let ESPN pick 8 SEC teams plus ND in the preseason for the post season playoff.

I know you are kidding as this is not the top 12 this or any year.

But you missed my point about transparency. Come up with a formula that informs the top 20 teams. If SOS and OOC games count, teams will adjust their scheduling to satisfy the metrics. People will always complain about SOS in the SEC or B1G is punitive but the counterargument is that being members of those conferences allows them to make a ton of money, accumulate NIL money, and not to bitch when they have two or more losses.

There will never be a way to eliminate the bitching about who is in and who is out even if you make 64 teams.

 

[KCLion]

I know you are kidding as this is not the top 12 this or any year.

But you missed my point about transparency. Come up with a formula that informs the top 20 teams. If SOS and OOC games count, teams will adjust their scheduling to satisfy the metrics. People will always complain about SOS in the SEC or B1G is punitive but the counterargument is that being members of those conferences allows them to make a ton of money, accumulate NIL money, and not to bitch when they have two or more losses.

There will never be a way to eliminate the bitching about who is in and who is out even if you make 64 teams.

Only partially kidding.

2024 ESPN preseason top 25

If I’m not mistaken:

10 SEC teams
5 Big teams

Lots of ranked teams to get “ranked” wins to build that SOS.

 

[LandoComando]

Only partially kidding.

2024 ESPN preseason top 25

If I’m not mistaken:

10 SEC teams
5 Big teams

Lots of ranked teams to get “ranked” wins to build that SOS.

And what did we end with?
5 Big Ten and ??? SEC
8 or 9?