I find it incredibly sad that a portion of our fanbase lives in fantasy-land thinking that you can just hit a light switch to get back to the 1970s and 80s despite Paterno holding us hostage for his final 10 years or so, Sandusky, Covid, the university’s lack of prior investment to caretake the program, etc. Franklin is certainly not perfect as a coach (I am the first to criticize some of the game management issues,) but he has been perfect for the program. Many of the traditional powers from 30-50 years ago are a shell of what they were. Franklin has had the program nationally relevant over the past several seasons for performance and no longer newsworthy just due to Sandusky. Very few coaches in the country could have accomplished what he has accomplished.
For those unhappy with Franklin
- Thread starter psulongago
- Start date
I'm old enough to remember this. PSU suffered in comparison to the others for three reasons. First, the conference as a whole improved substantially; Secondly, Penn State faded as Paterno became less effective in his old age; and Thirdly, the Sandusky scandal/sanctions knocked the program back quite a bit.
When Franklin started, he pretty much started from the bottom in the sense that he had limited scholarships, no 'Paterno leftover recruits' and a program that was still facing sanctions. Only an idiot would expect him to compare evenly with the top two teams in the conference. He should be just now getting the program to that level.
There really is a lot of truth behind what you say.
I think Sandusky did more harm than any of the others because we were recovering after the dark years from both a recruiting standpoint and from a wins standpoint.
But it doesn't feel like we are "now getting back to that level".
It feels like we are cementing as third best program in the conference that really only has 3 teams.
This is not 1990s and 2000s where Wisconsin and Michigan State were very, very, very tough programs.
Its been 9 years for Franklin - his recruits have come and gone. He's now in full gear. At some point, the results become his results. To me, we are there now.
85 just hit the nail square. Franklin is good for the school. Grad rate stats have been thrown out the door. Overall I think Franklin is good for PSU but as a coach there is quite a bit lacking.
As a fan I would not be disappointed in competing for Big title every 3 years and being 10-2 in between. I remember Franklin mentioning "elite" (his words not mine) a few years. This program is not elite and not trending ELITE. Why does the program struggles to compete with OSU. The tradition is there, the stadium, the fans, ALL of it Every program wants to win, and win it all. PSU is years away from competing for a national title. EVen if Allar is as advertised, surrounding players (especially the O & D lines need major improvement). Difference between OSU, Bama, Clemson, Georgia & PSU year in and year out is upfront. It all starts there and I have posted this for years. Franklin has had enough time to shore the Oline and still can't get that done. If Allar struggles because the Oline is inefficient, then don't look for another 5 star QB to come to Happy Valley.
Maybe you should go root for Ohio State then. Go be happy.
Has the date time and place been publicized for the next meeting of the NNNNNCAC? Is it at the Rose, Cotton, Orange or Citrus Bowl?
This is demonstratively false. False false false. Franklin's best classes (14 and 15) were littered with holder Paterno and O'Brien recruits. Heck, across the board the best players in both classes were OB's targets, not Franklin's. The backbone of Penn State's 16 and 17 squads were Paterno and O'Brien players. The overwhelming majority of impact players on those teams were players Franklin inherited while most of his flamed out. The sanction were gone before Franklin started. OB successfully mitigated them. Look at the below list. It is a whos who of players from Franklin's best years.
Chris Godwin - O'Brien
Mike Gesicki - O'Brien
Tom Pancoast - Paterno
Brian Gaia - Paterno
DaeSean Hamilton - Paterno
DeAndre Thompkins - O'Brien
Saquan Barkley - O'Brien target
Andre Robinson - Paterno target, O'Brien signee
Mark Allen - O'Brien
Evan Schwan - Paterno
Curtis Cothran - O'Brien
Parker Cothran - O'Brien
Robert Windsor - O'Brien target
Shareef Miller - O'Brien target
Ryan Bucholtz - O'Brien signee, Paterno target
Garret Sickels - Paterno
Brandon Bell - Paterno
Jason Cabinda - O'Brien
Koa Farmer - O'Brien
Christian Campbell - O'Brien
Garrett Taylor - O'Brien target
Marcus Allen - O'Brien
Troy Apke - O'Brien
Malik Godlen - Paterno
Nick Scott - O'Brien
Well, here's what you got right:
Chris Godwin - O'Brien
Mike Gesicki - O'Brien
Brian Gaia - Committed to Paterno, held by O'Brien
DeAndre Thompkins - O'Brien
Curtis Cothran - O'Brien
Parker Cothran - O'Brien
Jason Cabinda - O'Brien
Marcus Allen - O'Brien
Troy Apke - Committed to O'Brien, held by Franklin
Malik Golden - Committed to Paterno, held by O'Brien
Nick Scott - Committed to O'Brien, held by Franklin
Here's what you got wrong:
DaeSean Hamilton - O'Brien (not Paterno) - offered Feb '12, committed March '12
Evan Schwan - O'Brien (not Paterno) - offered 27 Jan '12; committed 28 Jan '12
Ryan Bucholtz - Franklin (not O'Brien) - offered 5 February '14, committed 24 February '14 - '15 signee
Garret Sickels - O'Brien (not Paterno) - offered Feb '12, committed March '12
Brandon Bell - O'Brien (not Paterno) - offered May '12, committed June '12
Koa Farmer - Franklin (not O'Brien) - offered 15 Jan 14, committed 25 Jan 14 - '14 signee
Christian Campbell - Franklin (not O'Brien) - offered and committed 3 Feb '14
Robert Windsor - Franklin - offered 15 Jan '15, committed 25 Jan '15 - he was a late offer and a late add to the '15 class; even his home state team, Wisky, offered late. No evidence of interest by O'Brien is available anywhere.
Guys who were back-ups and not "impact players" belonging on a PSU football "who's who"
Tom Pancoast - Paterno - back-up TE who caught 4 passes in '17, 10th on the team; no other catches during career
Andre Robinson - Offered Oct '12 (O'Brien), signed by Franklin in '15 - #2 behind Barkley, the #3 behind Barley and Sanders - rushed for 258 yds at PSU, transferred for final season
Mark Allen - O'Brien - #3 or #4 RB throughout his career, rushed for 348 yds at PSU, transferred for final season
O'Brien "Targets"
Saquan Barkley - O'Brien targeted and missed; it's that simple. - O'B wasn't on Barkley particularly early; he offered after Rutgers in the fall of his junior year. Barkley decommitted from Rutgers and committed to PSU six weeks after O'B left for Houston. O'Brien neither identified him as a prospect nor managed to get a commitment from him, in other words he failed. If anything, the timeline suggests that O'Brien was a hinderance to him choosing Penn State, not an asset.
Shareef Miller - offered Feb '14, committed Jan '15 - #12 recruit in the state, not exactly a mystery recruit pointed out by O'B.
For anyone curious, the information above comes from a combination of Rivals, On3, and 24/7. Other information comes from a site called nittanyanthology.com. It hasn't been updated since 2019, but the old rosters, depth charts, and stats are pure gold. I also used ESPN to confirm some stats from nittanyanthology.
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New angle on this. No question based on your metrics Franklin is under-performing but what other coach out there who might be available or willing to leave a current role to take the PSU job is having regular success against Ohio State caliber teams? Is it simply we are paying Franklin too much for what we are getting?
I hear people make the argument all the time about his record against the best programs we face. I get it, but across 131 FBS teams there are not many coaches capable of beating the big five Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, Georgia and up until this season Oklahoma on a regular basis. I look at what Texas A&M is doing and just shake my head. Texas trying to find respectability, Nebraska, Florida State, etc. USC went all in with Lincoln Riley but who else is out there you think can turn the tables on Ohio State?
When you consider that PSU would have made the 12 team NCAA playoff field in 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 and barring a collapse Saturday 2022 I'd say we have it pretty good. Ohio State is simply a machine. Until the time comes that they stub their toe I'm not certain searching for coach after coach with more money involved each time to find the one who can keep up is worth the many frustrating losing seasons that might result in between. Just my $.02
lol... none of any of you and your choices in this thread mean squat, The choice is so far above your authority, expertise and paygrade that the entire thread is flat ass hilarious.
The problem is not Franklin nor the football program. The problem lies with fanboys who fantasize that PSU is a top 5 program. It isn't and won't be. It's a top 10-15 program. Coaches may come and go....but PSU is not ever going to be Alabama, Georgia nor Ohio State.
There will always be the possibility of one magical year.....but by and large....10-15 is about what to expect on average.
Remember some of these morons wanted Schiano and golden.
I always ask the same question. Who is better and wants the psu job? Never get an answer. Saban and Dabo not coming. Urban turned the job down. Bill obrien was 7-5. Even Joe was only a 9-3 coach for his career.
I always ask the same question. Who is better and wants the psu job? Never get an answer. Saban and Dabo not coming. Urban turned the job down. Bill obrien was 7-5. Even Joe was only a 9-3 coach for his career.
Very similar I can buy but not PSU 30 places behind UGA and O$U. Makes no sense. I guess UGA has improved recently. Of all the SEC schools I put PSU ahead of all of them except Florida and Vandy. And I guess UGA now.
I agree, only talking about my opinion. Last time I checked I was allowed to have one.
Saquon was a Franklin recruit. Never even offered by obrien..
Most of your list is garbage. Farmer and Campbell were Vanda flips. Many others were signed by franklin.
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Saquon and McSorley were both program changing level players and Franklin was the one that got them both. We may be seeing that level again now with Singleton and Allar.
It's actually not complicated. Football is a QB driven sport now. If you want to be "elite" at a minimum you need an elite QB. Without that good luck. If Allar is it, hopefully that leads to getting more elite QBs in the future.
“Only” a 9-3 coach is 5 decades and the best bowl record (when bowls meant something) and multiple national championships and even more unbeaten seasons.
If only we found get back to near “only.”
I also hope he stays to the end of his career. Hope his career ends at the end of 2022!!!! Overrated, overpaid, worst gameday coach in the Big Ten!
I’m admittedly hard on Franklion many times because he can’t win the big game...
but 2016, 2017, 2019, and 2022 were/will be 11 win seasons. The 2018 team was a disappointment as that was not a four loss team. O$U and Sparty should have been wins. 2020 was CoVid and the squad was screwed by a poor administration and their measures. They never wanted to play football.
Last year was the most frustrating year of them all as, again, that was not a 6 loss team.
So for the last 7 years three teams performed, at the very least, and three teams underperformed. CoVid year is a toss out!
In my opinion, Franklion is so close to getting into the “always top ten” conversation. But can he do it?
but 2016, 2017, 2019, and 2022 were/will be 11 win seasons. The 2018 team was a disappointment as that was not a four loss team. O$U and Sparty should have been wins. 2020 was CoVid and the squad was screwed by a poor administration and their measures. They never wanted to play football.
Last year was the most frustrating year of them all as, again, that was not a 6 loss team.
So for the last 7 years three teams performed, at the very least, and three teams underperformed. CoVid year is a toss out!
In my opinion, Franklion is so close to getting into the “always top ten” conversation. But can he do it?
The
The day Franklin leaves I will celebrate with a happy dance!! We will hopefully bring in someone who can actually coach on Gameday and beat Ohio State and Michigan. Franklin has not been able to do either of the three!!!!
Penn State has beaten Michigan three of the past six meetings. Facts are pesky things aren't they?
It if Georgia was in the SEC West, Richt wouldn’t have had all those 10 win seasons. Richt dominating the West would be like a coach dominating the Big West…not exactly proof that you’re an outstanding coach.
And two years later you will be on here bitching about the new coach for the same reasons you bitch about Franklin. When someone has an attitude that it’s never the players’ fault when they lose, they will never be happy with any coach.
These were all replacement hires to big name programs (who frankly weren't doing that badly for the most part) who have vastly underperformed. My point is always this: even if you want to replace Franklin, who would you realistically replace him with that is guaranteed to be better (or if you don't believe in guarantees, like say 85% likely to be better)?
Yes, some unnamed coach will miraculously appear and slay the dragon. LOL Fanboys
Mark's biggest problem was that he had standards (moral).
Franklin has not got it done. Period. His record vs top ten teams, top five teams, top twenty five teams, Ohio State, Michigan, etc. is dissmal. Not saying we should fire him, but I believe that 10 year contract has set us back. Who else with Franklin's record gets a 10 million deal? I think we have the chance to be special next season, especially on defense. But we'll see. If we lose to another ranked team, then this season is hollow. Zero wins over top 25 teams. And yes, I do think there is someone out there that would immediately put Penn State into the elite category. The problem is most Penn Staters refuse to acknowledge college football is a completely different business these days vs even 10 short years ago.
He has made a NY6 bowl 4 out of the last 6 (I'm not counting covid year) years.
Very few other coaches have done that.
If that isn't "getting it done" in your mind you have unrealistic expectations.
We are in a very tricky spot with Franklin. 2017 should have been a playoff year but they choked against OSU and Sparty. We‘ve had good seasons, but, we‘ve also underachieved a bit. The right coach would have gotten us a playoff spot in 2017, and a 2-1 record against UM, OSU, and MSU in 2017, 2018 and 2022. He got us back to #3 in the BIG quicker than anyone could have imagined after sanctions. MSU, Wisky, and UM were 2a,b, and c from 2013-2016 in the BIG. Now, PSU is in a much better spot than MSU and Wisky. Franklin hasn’t taken the next step like Harbaugh has.
The probability is at least even money that a new guy would get us to 8-4 each year. Frank Solich was 9-3 or better every year after Tom Osborne at Nebraska and two years out of the BCS game. They fired him. Nebraska is now a generation removed from being relevant on a national level.
Please keep in mind that 2 years ago, Harbaugh hadn't taken that step either. Many in the fan base wanted him gone.
A point related to this is one I've made before: there is a fair amount of "randomness" (not the perfect term, but bear with me) in CFB. One bounce here, one players slipping on the turf there, one bad call, one injury can change the outcome of a game and therefore a season. You can mitigate the impact of "bad luck" by having superior talent, but PSU was probably one "lucky break" away from beating OSU in both 2017 and 2018. Think about how that changes this narrative.
Not entirely sure of your point here. I don't disagree with your first sentence, but that would be a step backwards (e.g. 11-2 is significantly better than 8-5, 9-4). Yes, Nebraska made big mistakes, which is why I am against firing coaches who are performing well (anyone who thinks Franklin isn't performing well is delusional).
Mario Cristobal, Jimbo Fisher, Lane Kiffin, Matt Rhule, Mel Tucker, Brian Kelly…..
