Franklin

[Jerry]

And why are you sure Franklin wants out? Because of media rumors and the fire Franklin comments from knuckleheads on message boards?

I'm not "sure." I said "pretty sure" which is a notch down from "sure" but probably still overstating things. None of us can be sure what's going through the guy's head.

That said, is there any doubt at all that he's leaving his options open? I mean, he has declined to put the rumors to bed, which he could swiftly do in one sentence.

To lose some of these games the way they've been lost in recent years...and yesterday...while at the same time coming to terms with the knowledge that we'll always be the conference's Red-Headed Stepchild when it comes to football...the annual hose jobs by the refs -- by the way, I thought they called a fair game yesterday except for one ridiculous PI penalty -- anyway, all this has to take a psychological toll on a guy.

Then again, I may be projecting my own emotions onto the coach. Because at the end of the day, he's the only one who knows. Well maybe his wife too.

In any case, the rest of us are left to bat stuff around on message boards, which is what message boards are for after all.

 

[bvillebaron]

ESPN crawler: "PSU's 9th consecutive loss to an AP Top Ten team under Franklin."

He's not going anywhere voluntarily. He'll need to be fired. The question is, does Sandy have the guts to do it. Consider both the microeconomics and the macroeconomics of the decision. We need to because time is of the essence.

Microeconomics- buying him out sooner rather than later saves money. It leaves enough money on-the-table to buy a decent coach with a complementary staff. It puts us on the 'road to recovery' while it's still affordable. For a good analogy, say you're in-the-market for a new car. It's best buy now while it's still relatively cheap. For example, the price of Tesla's model Y has increased 21% YoY. Buy now!

Macroeconomics- it's no secret peoples' discretionary income is declining due to inflation. So fans are less willing accept mediocrity. Not saying State College becomes a ghost town on Saturday but if PSU continues the downward slide then the game day experience loses not only the crowd but nostalgia. Fast forward a decade and we'll go the way of University of Chicago. So that the football program is at an inflection point, and as goes the football program so goes all sports. We are not alone in this regard.

So at what point does Sandy pull the plug. My guess is if CJF loses out this season and starts out next season poorly then he won't finish it out. That's what needs to be done if we're to save the football program. Let's see if it happens.

Lastly, let's not sleep on Rutgers. They're no pushover and we are their Super Bowl.

PSU is doomed. No sense even playing the game.

One look at FSU and Texas should at least make people realize that yes, things could be worse. Maybe Franklin isn't the answer but be very careful what you wish for.

BINGO.

 

[bvillebaron]

Also, the lack of accountability for players performance on the field is just ridiculous. Caedan Wallace gets destroyed every game and we never rotate him out...never sub for a different RT for a couple series. Other teams do this from time to time. Brandon Smith, who has yet to make a game altering tackle or play in 3 seasons, just stays on the field. This friend mentality JF runs his program with is nice for hugs and love, but it hinders performance and accountability. There clearly is no pressure on any of these players who make weekly mistakes.

Do your knuckles rub on the ground?

 

[Jerry]

ESPN crawler: "PSU's 9th consecutive loss to an AP Top Ten team under Franklin."

He's not going anywhere voluntarily. He'll need to be fired. The question is, does Sandy have the guts to do it. Consider both the microeconomics and the macroeconomics of the decision. We need to because time is of the essence.

Microeconomics- buying him out sooner rather than later saves money. It leaves enough money on-the-table to buy a decent coach with a complementary staff. It puts us on the 'road to recovery' while it's still affordable. For a good analogy, say you're in-the-market for a new car. It's best buy now while it's still relatively cheap. For example, the price of Tesla's model Y has increased 21% YoY. Buy now!

Macroeconomics- it's no secret peoples' discretionary income is declining due to inflation. So fans are less willing accept mediocrity. Not saying State College becomes a ghost town on Saturday but if PSU continues the downward slide then the game day experience loses not only the crowd but nostalgia. Fast forward a decade and we'll go the way of University of Chicago. So that the football program is at an inflection point, and as goes the football program so goes all sports. We are not alone in this regard.

So at what point does Sandy pull the plug. My guess is if CJF loses out this season and starts out next season poorly then he won't finish it out. That's what needs to be done if we're to save the football program. Let's see if it happens.

Lastly, let's not sleep on Rutgers. They're no pushover and we are their Super Bowl.

Cos, I can't see Franklin being fired. Ever. Well, alright, in the face of a collapse extended over a period of years, I suppose it could happen. But we're a long way from that.

Agree regarding Rutgers. Hell, we can't afford to sleep on anybody anymore. But our track record in the week after tough 4th-quarter losses is not good. I don't think it would be wise to lay the points this week.

 

[BostonNit]

Also, the lack of accountability for players performance on the field is just ridiculous. Caedan Wallace gets destroyed every game and we never rotate him out...never sub for a different RT for a couple series. Other teams do this from time to time. Brandon Smith, who has yet to make a game altering tackle or play in 3 seasons, just stays on the field. This friend mentality JF runs his program with is nice for hugs and love, but it hinders performance and accountability. There clearly is no pressure on any of these players who make weekly mistakes.

Still waiting for the press conference where Sabin says "It all starts with 'I love you' and ends with 'I love you'."

This is B1G football, not the Lingerie Bowl. (I know, throw the flag for no pic).

 

[PSUEngineer89]

Comments:
1. Didn’t start the rumors; has handled them the same in past years.
2. This is 2021 not 1969
3 So it’s okay to fire the head coach but must hang on to lousy assistant coaches for 7 years
4. You’re kidding right? Check out Franklin after Maryland win. I mean really.

My thoughts on your points:

1. He has handled the rumors badly. Period.
2. I don't care. I like 1969, think it worked better than things work in 2021.
3. The point is that the INTENT is for stability. We all get that hires work out badly at times, but that you must really be careful "hire carefully, fire quickly if you must".
4. Maybe. I've seen some of what you say, and concede this might not really be an issue.

 

[shifix]

IMO Franklin and staff deserve another year

 

[PSUinSTL]

I used to be completely behind Franklin. This season changed. It wasn’t Iowa. Yeah we can gripe about no backup QB being ready but stuff happens. It was the Illini game. That cost us any shot at the OSU game and UM. The defense did there job. The offense didn’t. Start TR. give him easy passes. Give him options. If he struggles- then play cliff. If not and we win great.

But by playing cliff he didn’t completely heel. Saw it against OSU and yesterday. If he got 3 weeks to rest those 2 games might have been different.

Also a few major miscues yesterday. The fake FG. I’m not one to question fakes. But you know against UM points at premium. I didn’t live the fake punt either (wanted to pin deep) but that was better call because risk reward (could end up with 19 yrd punt with touchback). But the FG wasn’t good. Power/option/pass. Any option works because failure means UL has to go 99 yards. PSU gave up momentum easily and didn’t keep the foot down.

End of game. - Call TO go get Dotson back in field. And why 2 plays with low % pass. I can see once. But 2 times.

And yes I know it can get worse. But honestly is 6-6 really worse than 8-4? I’m done ways it’s better because easier to move on from coach.

Also I don’t think it’s easy to slip like that. Yeah Bama did but that’s cause they tried the Bama man model (like UM). Texas has too many donors mucking up. USC outside of Carrol hasn’t been top in 40 yrs. They have more issues. Nebraska has no talent in backyard and relied on CA in heyday with players nobody else would touch then Texas. Both are gone. Those issues aren’t here. Even if we make a bad choice it’s better than routine averageness

 

[RaymondReddington]

ESPN crawler: "PSU's 9th consecutive loss to an AP Top Ten team under Franklin."

He's not going anywhere voluntarily. He'll need to be fired. The question is, does Sandy have the guts to do it. Consider both the microeconomics and the macroeconomics of the decision. We need to because time is of the essence.

Microeconomics- buying him out sooner rather than later saves money. It leaves enough money on-the-table to buy a decent coach with a complementary staff. It puts us on the 'road to recovery' while it's still affordable. For a good analogy, say you're in-the-market for a new car. It's best buy now while it's still relatively cheap. For example, the price of Tesla's model Y has increased 21% YoY. Buy now!

Macroeconomics- it's no secret peoples' discretionary income is declining due to inflation. So fans are less willing accept mediocrity. Not saying State College becomes a ghost town on Saturday but if PSU continues the downward slide then the game day experience loses not only the crowd but nostalgia. Fast forward a decade and we'll go the way of University of Chicago. So that the football program is at an inflection point, and as goes the football program so goes all sports. We are not alone in this regard.

So at what point does Sandy pull the plug. My guess is if CJF loses out this season and starts out next season poorly then he won't finish it out. That's what needs to be done if we're to save the football program. Let's see if it happens.

Lastly, let's not sleep on Rutgers. They're no pushover and we are their Super Bowl.

Did the espn crawler mention that five of those losses were to$u, who no one else in the conference has beaten either??

 

[fastlax16]

Jerry, you're just an excellent poster. Logical, rational, honest.

I feel pretty much the same as you do - I know Franklin has many flaws, and certainly is no Joe Paterno, but I know that the question is: "OK, but are you sure the next guy will be better".

Other posters in this thread have commented that we "might be the next Texas or Nebraska" without Franklin, if the next hire isn't good.

I would stick with Franklin, flaws and all, IF he would JUST GO ALL IN on the program and university and restoring the Paterno way.

1. Stop the stupid rumors, "I'm leaving when they fire me or I pass away, and not before".
2. Don't hire an assistant who doesn't pledge to be here for 7 years - this isn't a stepping stone.
3. Don't hire an assistant you're not willing to keep for at least 7 years unless something unethical happens.
4. Be enthused about the program and show it.

Really, there has been a lot of good, and I can take losing like yesterday. What I don't like is being second tier without the good stuff.

Number 2 is beyond naive, in college football and elsewhere. One, anyone who would do it is lying. Two, no quality assistant sees themselves in the same role 7 years down the line. The days of paterno and co sticking together forever are over.

 

[HartfordLlion]

I love all these posts that coaches MUST have expressions. Tom Osbourne at Nebraska, Tom Landry with the Cowboys, Bear Bryant to name a few. You couldn't tell if they were up 30 or down 30 so put an end to that BS. In terms of coaches, when assistants who have busted their butt for you for years come to you and say they can get more money and be promoted what are you going to do, say no? There is a certain loyalty in the business too. While I'm sure not all will agree, its the nature of coaching, its a transient profession. Fix the offensive line and get some play makers.

LOL. Franklin is the direct oppsite of a coach like Landry. When we are winning chest bumps, high fives. Losing, the 1000 mile stare.

 

[TheGLOV]

I got off the Franklin bandwagon last year. I’m not ready to run him out of town yet but I’ll buy his plane ticket to LAX so he can stop with the one foot out the door routine.

His teams are consistently unprepared to play, play down to competition, have limited offensive output or gain lots of yards but make lots of critical mistakes, and somehow as good as the defense is it frequently gives up a huge play at the wrong time. His coaching staff continuously refuses to put his players in position to succeed by not preparing them well and then making illogical play calls.

You are absolutely correct sir!

BINGO!

 

[SLion]

Umm, how much better is PSU over TX, TN and FSU over last two seasons..not much sorry to say. Closer to them than OSU. Simply put - let Franklin go if he can get it. Anyone here think MY is long term solution at OC? CJF plays desperate not smart.

Again Rhule ain't coming. Pipe dream. Dave Clawson is 9-1, scored 45 and beat #13 NC St team. His offense scored 55 in only loss. He has little defensive talent. CJF will be looking to blame staff. Trautwein will be gone. More turnover and instability. He cares about his imagr. Will not take blame for these seasons. It was injuries, but everyone has them, many worse than ours. Reality, just bring a coach that has a offensive strategies, local ties to Northeast and not angling to move to another BT or SEC power. If we miss Clawson not seeing great fit on horizon. I guess VT likes Huff at Marshall.

 

[christoph]

I see it a little differently. I believe the outstanding problem to be a non-Big 10 offensive line. To me, every team that has beaten us has a superior offensive line. Without an offensive line, Saquon Barkley could not get yardage (just look at his performance with the Giants). The OL gives the QB time to set up and throw and for the backs to get yardage. We have not had an offensive allAmerican at OL for some time. And that is the fault of Franklin's recruiting priorities and the OL coach. With an OL I believe the only game that we would have lost was OSU, and maybe won. The rest is all crap. If we lose our top QB recruits it is because they know there is no OL.

Well other team players are using PED and we enforce the rules in that regard. I’m sorry that this is a dirty little secret. The positions where that helps is both lines. The NCAA rule is “self enforcement “ for each school and many don’t.

 

[fastlax16]

Umm, how much better is PSU over TX, TN and FSU over last two seasons..not much sorry to say. Closer to them than OSU. Simply put - let Franklin go if he can get it. Anyone here think MY is long term solution at OC? CJF plays desperate not smart.

Again Rhule ain't coming. Pipe dream. Dave Clawson is 9-1 and beat #13 team. His offense scored

Again, two whole seasons. You have to go back a whole, checks notes, 3 seasons to find double digit wins.

UTenn hasn’t won ten or more games since 2007. FSU hasn’t had a winning record since 2017. Texas has one season with double digits wins in the last decade plus. Every single one of those fanbases would swap their last 6 years for ours in a heartbeat.

Franklin has beaten more ranked teams than Clawson this season. Franklin has beaten more ranked teams this season than Clawson has beaten the last 3 seasons combined.

 

[Cosmos]

My God, did you see what happened to Texas yesterday? Speaking of once elite programs that have spent years and years...and gone through coaches and coaches...trying to recapture the glory.

Moral of the story: it could always be worse. Cold consolation the morning after again snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in the 4th quarter.

Texas has a cultural problem. It has too many meddling alumni and it's trying to decide if it wants to remain true to its conservative roots or go full-blown liberal like Austin city. Take for example what it did to Charlie Strong. Presumably, they used his won-loss record as an excuse to run him out-of-town because he was too tough on the black players. For real. So yes, we could be worse.

 

[Jerry]

The hot-hire buzz around Franklin is definitely dying down after the last several weeks.

This is totally unscientific, and in any case fans don't make hiring decisions, but judging by the reactions on Twitter and some team blogs (links below), the bloom is off the rose for James at LSU.

With regard to USC, conventional wisdom now has Fickell as the leading candidate, but Franklin is still on their list supposedly...reportedly...allegedly.

LSU Football coaching candidate that we can remove from the hot board

LSU Football is looking for a new head coach after parting ways with Ed Orgeron earlier this season. The Tigers are hoping to hire a

deathvalleyvoice.com

LSU Fans Said The Same Thing About James Franklin On Saturday

LSU will hire a new head coach at some point in coming months. Word on the street is James Franklin may be a potential candidate. However, following Penn

thespun.com

 

[psupride1997]

One look at FSU and Texas should at least make people realize that yes, things could be worse. Maybe Franklin isn't the answer but be very careful what you wish for.

One look at Oregon, Cincinnati and Michigan State suggest things could be better. All three changed coaches recently, and all are in the playoff hunt.

 

[PennStatePigskin]

Again, two whole seasons. You have to go back a whole, checks notes, 3 seasons to find double digit wins.

UTenn hasn’t won ten or more games since 2007. FSU hasn’t had a winning record since 2017. Texas has one season with double digits wins in the last decade plus. Every single one of those fanbases would swap their last 6 years for ours in a heartbeat.

Franklin has beaten more ranked teams than Clawson this season. Franklin has beaten more ranked teams this season than Clawson has beaten the last 3 seasons combined.

James will take another job when his wife Fumi Franklin gives him the signal. Living in the north isn’t her (Fumi’s) first choice.

For those calling yesterday’s loss a 4 point loss, not so fast my friends. The victory formation kneel down prevented an 11 point loss at home.

Sandy Barbour isn’t the Athletic Director who will lead Penn State to football excellence.

Matt Ruhle is my choice.

 

[PennStatePigskin]

James will take another job when his wife Fumi Franklin gives him the signal. Living in the north isn’t her (Fumi’s) first choice.

For those calling yesterday’s loss a 4 point loss, not so fast my friends. The victory formation kneel down prevented an 11 point loss at home.

Sandy Barbour isn’t the Athletic Director who will lead Penn State to football excellence.

Matt Ruhle is my choice to replace Franklin.

 

[PennStatePigskin]

Who was it yesterday who said Barbour was retiring ? She looked comfortable on the field yesterday with her partner who didn’t look so comfortable.

 

[Madsol]

One look at Oregon, Cincinnati and Michigan State suggest things could be better. All three changed coaches recently, and all are in the playoff hunt.

Ok. Only one of those is remotely similar to PSU. And let's wait til after the next 2 weeks before we crown MSU.

 

[MaconNitt]

Will not take blame for these seasons.

you must not watch his postgame press conferences. He often says that the losses are on him and the staff. That they have to do a better as a program

 

[Wallace Breen]

One look at Oregon, Cincinnati and Michigan State suggest things could be better. All three changed coaches recently, and all are in the playoff hunt.

Mel Tucker is everything James Franklin isn't.

 

[MaconNitt]

James will take another job when his wife Fumi Franklin gives him the signal. Living in the north isn’t her (Fumi’s) first choice.

For those calling yesterday’s loss a 4 point loss, not so fast my friends. The victory formation kneel down prevented an 11 point loss at home.

Sandy Barbour isn’t the Athletic Director who will lead Penn State to football excellence.

Matt Ruhle is my choice.

quoting your own post. Real Men of Genius material right there.

 

[PennStatePigskin]

quoting your own post. Real Men of Genius material right there.

View embedded media

 

[PSUEngineer89]

Number 2 is beyond naive, in college football and elsewhere. One, anyone who would do it is lying. Two, no quality assistant sees themselves in the same role 7 years down the line. The days of paterno and co sticking together forever are over.

It isn't beyond naive.

People are still people, and will respond to good, honest leadership.

It's the recent leadership that's garbage (not specifically Franklin).

 

[fastlax16]

One look at Oregon, Cincinnati and Michigan State suggest things could be better. All three changed coaches recently, and all are in the playoff hunt.

I mean statistically speaking new coaches are going to be in the playoff hunt every year… I can name every new coach who isn’t if we are just throwing shit against the wall that means nothing without context.

It isn't beyond naive.

People are still people, and will respond to good, honest leadership.

It's the recent leadership that's garbage (not specifically Franklin).

It’s completely naive to ask new hires to commit for the better part of a decade. Most good young coaches are ambitious, it’d be a ridiculous requirement and is out of touch with reality.

 

[PSUEngineer89]

I mean statistically speaking new coaches are going to be in the playoff hunt every year… I can name every new coach who isn’t if we are just throwing shit against the wall that means nothing without context.


It’s completely naive to ask new hires to commit for the better part of a decade. Most good young coaches are ambitious, it’s be a ridiculous requirement.

Then I don't want them. I'll take a lesser, more dedicated coach.

The "lesser" coach probably won't be lesser. He'll probably be just less flashy.

That's the thing all these flashes in pans, ambitious people have - lots of style, little substance.

Give me a smart, hard-working, enthusiastic guy who LOVES his players, his job. That type of guy knows that he really didn't lead if he just came in to leave in 3 years.

In fact, if you're going to leave in 3 years if you can, you are NOT a leader, by definition. You're deserting your men when they need you.

 

[fastlax16]

James will take another job when his wife Fumi Franklin gives him the signal. Living in the north isn’t her (Fumi’s) first choice.

When did Fumi share this with you?

 

[fastlax16]

Then I don't want them. I'll take a lesser, more dedicated coach.

The "lesser" coach probably won't be lesser. He'll probably be just less flashy.

That's the thing all these flashes in pans, ambitious people have - lots of style, little substance.

Give me a smart, hard-working, enthusiastic guy who LOVES his players, his job. That type of guy knows that he really didn't lead if he just came in to leave in 3 years.

In fact, if you're going to leave in 3 years if you can, you are NOT a leader, by definition. You're deserting your men when they need you.

Well then you’re not hiring anyone. Simple as that.

I’m assuming you also wouldn’t hire anyone who hasn’t been in their current job for 7 years since by your definition they’re not leaders if they’re willing to desert their men and if they’d leave early for you they’d do it again. I’d love to see the list of coordinators you’re targeting who are at least 7 years in at their current program.

Just a couple of current head coaches that people seem to hold in high regard who don't meet your definition of leader since they've had career stops of 3 years or fewer. If I extend it to your original 7 I believe I can include every coach in the country.

Matt Ruhle- 2 Years at Buffalo before going to UCLA. Left Baylor after 3 seasons to go to Carolina. Not a leader

Mel Tucker- 1 year at Miami Ohio then onto LSU for one year. One year at Bama. One year at Colorado.

Luke Fickell- 2 years at Akron

Dave Aranda- 1 Year at Delta State. 1 year at Southern Utah. 1 Year at Utah State

Kirby Smart- 2 year at Valdosta State. 2 years at Florida State. 1 year at FSU. 1 Year at Georgia (first time). 1 year Miami Dolphins.

Nick Saban- Left Syracuse after 1 season. Left WVU after 2 seasons, Left Ohio State after 2 seasons. Left Navy after 1 season. Left Houston after 2 seasons. Left Toledo after one season. Left Miami after 2 seasons.

 

[Cpeplion]

Well other team players are using PED and we enforce the rules in that regard. I’m sorry that this is a dirty little secret. The positions where that helps is both lines. The NCAA rule is “self enforcement “ for each school and many don’t.

Please, you don’t know that for fact at all. Yes, PSU upholds all the rules and we are holier than tho. Yeah…OK

 

[crm114psu]

Please, you don’t know that for fact at all. Yes, PSU upholds all the rules and we are holier than tho. Yeah…OK

Anybody that does better than PSU must be cheating. There is no other logical reason they could be better.

 

[PennStatePigskin]

When did Fumi share this with you?

At a hockey game

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

If there is doubt whether schools are still interested, wouldn’t there also be doubt about him being able to take all of the recruits with him???

,
I don't have any input on PSU keep CJM or not, that is for you to decide. But at the risk of catching some heat from here I don't think there is any doubt if he goes he will try to take recruits with him, think back to his hiring at PSU and the kids he brought in that were Vandy commit.

 

[OhioLion]

The problem I have with those calling for his head on a platter is their naivete in thinking we can somehow get a guy who will return us to the Glory Days.

Curious what you consider the Glory Days. The 60’s, 80’s, a couple of hood years in the ‘00-‘09 decade with 4 losing seasons?
Serious question for my first post-board split post.
TIA

 

[fastlax16]

Curious what you consider the Glory Days. The 60’s, 80’s, a couple of hood years in the ‘00-‘09 decade with 4 losing seasons?
Serious question for my first post-board split post.
TIA

the glory days were a time period where 1982 rolled immediately into 1986 and then 1994, 2005 and 2009 happened in rapid succession. Every assistant loved their job and never aspired to more. No player was ever unhappy and every recruit exceeded expectations.

 

[Jerry]

Curious what you consider the Glory Days. The 60’s, 80’s, a couple of hood years in the ‘00-‘09 decade with 4 losing seasons?
Serious question for my first post-board split post.
TIA

The Glory Days as I see it were from the time Joe took over (1966) to when we joined the Big-10 (1993) and a couple years later. So make it the 30-year period between 1966-1996.

Joining the conference spelled the beginning of the end...though those 1993-1996 teams were outstanding, and of course the 1994 edition was legendary.

Don't get me wrong: I know we had some more or less "down" seasons during the Glory Days and even one losing season. But taken as a whole, we were one of the truly elite teams in college football during that time in terms of winning national championships, competing for national championships, top-10 rankings, major bowl wins...you name it.

Another thing about the Glory Days was that even in down seasons you always had a feeling the "down" was temporary. You looked forward to the next year, thinking you'd be back in the hunt. Post-Glory Days the mindset has been different. As if you know you lost something and you want it back but you don't know how it can be done or when it could possibly happen.

 

[fastlax16]

Another thing about the Glory Days was that even in down seasons you always had a feeling the "down" was temporary. You looked forward to the next year, thinking you'd be back in the hunt. Post-Glory Days the mindset has been different. As if you know you lost something and you want it back but you don't know how it can be done or when it could possibly happen.

Mostly because the internet didn't exist. If you'd had message boards after the 84 and 88 seasons they would have been just an unpleasant. Somehow I doubt everyone was optimistic after losing 3 out of the last 4 in 84 including a 44-7 drubbing against an unranked ND team or losing 5 out of the last 6 (3 to unranked teams) in 88 including games where the offense scored 3 points twice, 7 points and 10 points.

I'd looooove to see this board if Frankin lost to an unranked team by 37 points in a season where they also scored 3 and 0 points in losing efforts earlier in the year and then followed that loss with a 20 point loss to an unranked Pitt team to end the season.

 

[PSUEngineer89]

When did Fumi share this with you?

Her job is to STFU and be happy she's married to a guy making $6,000,000 per year.

"Fumi says"....give me a break.