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FRL 243: NCAA Cheating Discussion

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It's possible that Wittlake flipped yesterday -- maybe Smith called him to up the offer with his most recent displeasure over their 184 situation. However, Wittlake likely didn't announce it until he had a chance to call Cael.

Maybe the actual flip occurred yesterday, but it's very unlikely that it hadn't been in works for a while.

What he said...
 
If you cared to look at more than the total expense figure on the public document, did a quick google search that brought up the many camps involved, did a minimum amount of guesswork that anyone associated with running a camp could help you with on outlays for facility fees, housing and meals in certain cases for an awful lot of campers, insurance, other outlays like t-shirts, advertising, etc. you would find that the maximum amount of money that could be squeezed out to fulfill your dream of NLWC camp counselors paying off their student loans is really a dream - a pipe dream. But of course you are probably too busy crafting new letters to compliance offices. BTW, did you actually expect ANY compliance office to respond to that, no matter what the "stated purpose" is. Tell the truth, you put that you are a huge Hawkeye fan in your letter to the Iowa compliance office - hence the polite, generic reply. Or else people in Iowa are just a lot nicer than a lot of places - which could be true, actually I would bet on it in general (excluding some on the HR).

Or you might be the poster on the HR that retorted that PSU was probably hiding things on their financial documents to the IRS when I posted the same in the original thread when you first brought this up on the HR - can't remember, it might have been you, probably not. Yes, given the risk/reward there, that sounds reeeeeeeaaaaaalllllly plausible. I know what's next - Sandusky.

I sent the same exact email to every school.

And for about the 20th time, I'm not accusing PSU of cheating. I'm pointing out the avenue for it to happen through camp pay and this goes for any school.

Some of you are hyper defensive.

Flo is the one saying coaches are cheating. They didn't say it's PSU.

Let's look at the logical conclusion most people are making right now. Flo said coaches are cheating. PSU is the program currently getting an insane number of top recruits and also is the program with the most external funding by far. You should be able to see why people are questioning PSU.
 
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This is exactly what I have been saying, with the addition of what would happen if a kid failed out, quit the team, transferred. Seems very far fetched that a parent would accept this "agreement" that is verbal and conditional if money was what was driving the deal.

In regards to your 2nd paragraph, additionally if an athlete met these conditions and completed a successful wrestling career and a degree at PSU, as you point out that he has already made his money, whether it be by becoming a coach, resident athlete or even if he forgoes wrestling he will have many employment opportunities given his status as a successful wrestler at PSU (or Iowa or Minnesota, etc.), so what exactly is the benefit being offered him? Message board rumor mongers have put it at $50K per year plus benefits for a resident athlete - is this really an added incentive for someone that has accomplished this and is now a valuable commodity?

If this is really what is causing these kids to pick PSU, what kind of brain power must you have as a coach to not be able to point these simple facts out to a prospective recruit you are battling PSU for? And if the recruit and his family were not able to follow, would they be able to cut it at your institution?
To my eye, this is a likely scenario:

PSU to Recruit: And true, we're asking you to accept a little less to come here, but there are ways to mitigate that extra tuition cost, such as our world class RTC, which you can be paid to wrestle for after graduation, where you'll get to wrestle with David Taylor, etc., etc.

Recruit, later, to a Third Party: PSU offered to pay for my tuition costs via the RTC.

Coaches lacking a comparable RTC program: Cael is cheating.

FRL: People are saying...

 
I have made a point, but you refuse to ingest it. Simply put, Wittlake didn't decide to decommit from PSU in the last two days. There, is that more helpful?

So yeah. Your question was rhetorical and sarcastic. I never insinuated or implicitly stated that he decommited in the last two days.

I was referring to the discussion of the last two days and that the "PSU is cheating" heat has to take at least a bit of a hit with the decommit (whenever it happened) of Wittlake.
 
I have a friend who is paying between $8k and $10k a year of club sports (soccer and lacrosse) for their daughter. That includes private coaching, travel for tournaments etc. This started when she was in 5th grade, time she graduates from high school you are looking at $80k to $100K total.

I can see why parents would take less from PSU to chase their son's dreams, in many cases their dreams. What price do you put on an Olympic team spot or medal possibly gold? Answer is you will spend a lot of money to chase that dream.

Take Mark Hall, his family has relocated several times to benefit his wrestling career. They have gone all over the country for years for wrestling, they have travelled around the world to watch him compete. If they believed that PSU was the best place for him to chase his dreams, money is not going to be an issue for them. Same can be said for any number of wrestlers on the team.

Maybe Vodka should look into Larry Lee's employment arrangement, anything funny happen there? I don't think so, but certainly it is fair game.
this is exactly right. Hell, i am paying those kinds of $$$$ across volleyball, baseball, gymnastics, swimming, and diving for my 3 kids, with no hope whatsoever of anything more than high school success. No way they are big, strong, fast, talented enough to play at anything more than maybe a D3 level. Why do I do it? Because I'd rather have them in a gym than in the basement. And they like to compete. And that is what parents do for their kids.
 
... And for about the 20th time, I'm not accusing PSU of cheating. I'm pointing out the avenue for it to happen through camp pay and this goes for any school.

Some of you are hyper defensive. ...
Similarly, I’m not accusing you of tearing wings off butterflies and worshipping Satan, but I’m pointing out that there are butterflies in your state and Satanic websites on the Internet, IF you were to go down those avenues, which I’m not accusing you of. Also, have you stopped going to Justin Bieber concerts yet? :)
 
I sent the same exact email to every school.

And for about the 20th time, I'm not accusing PSU of cheating. I'm pointing out the avenue for it to happen through camp pay and this goes for any school.

Some of you are hyper defensive.

Flo is the one saying coaches are cheating. They didn't say it's PSU.

Let's look at the logical conclusion most people are making right now. Flo said coaches are cheating. PSU is the program currently getting an insane number of top recruits and also is the program with the most external funding by far. You should be able to see why people are questioning PSU.
Ahhh no. That's not how it works, unless you're talking about the mind of a child. Apple has a successful business, and Samsung complains, so Apple must be cheating, stealing somehow. Maybe Apple had Steve Jobs, and he was damn good at what he did? You brought baseless accusations to this board, and furthermore insulted posters here. Enough of your bs agenda.
 
Ahhh no. That's not how it works, unless you're talking about the mind of a child. Apple has a successful business, and Samsung complains, so Apple must be cheating, stealing somehow. Maybe Apple had Steve Jobs, and he was damn good at what he did? You brought baseless accusations to this board, and furthermore insulted posters here. Enough of your bs agenda.

Ban the idiot!!

I come hear to read about the team I love, not some troll on every thread insinuate we cheat
 
I have posted this a number of times and will again. I have firsthand knowledge of this. First hand - not PSU, but a situation with even a greater disparity in scholarship offers - full vs. 25%. It is not as simple as that. Living a working class life style you want the full scholarship, but you also want your kid to be happy and successful in some of the most important years of his life. So you weigh the pros and cons and try to give them as much information as you can. But it's their life and the loans are their responsibility. It makes for a very difficult decision.
Not if that other 75% is promised to be paid off with a slush fund. That's not cheating, it's just a "loophole".
 
Similarly, I’m not accusing you of tearing wings off butterflies and worshipping Satan, but I’m pointing out that there are butterflies in your state and Satanic websites on the Internet, IF you were to go down those avenues, which I’m not accusing you of. Also, have you stopped going to Justin Bieber concerts yet? :)


And you fine sir, are the winner. This made me spit out my coffee, well done.
 
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Don't you want to know what the * means?
No.

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Iowa fans are hoping and praying that Cael and the success of PSU is the result of cheating. They are desperate to explain why Cael and PSU are simply levels above them.
 
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Here's something that isn't talked about in wrestling, but happens frequently in college basketball. Coaches often put pressure on a disappointing player in an attempt to get them off the books via transfer. They will tell players they won't see the rotation at all if they stick around. Transfer rate is huge in college b-ball.

John Smith's public calling out of Keegan Moore looks awfully convenient when you consider Montalvo and Wittlake are coming in. This is a guy who has struggled since arriving on campus. GET HIM, HR!
 
Here's something that isn't talked about in wrestling, but happens frequently in college basketball. Coaches often put pressure on a disappointing player in an attempt to get them off the books via transfer. They will tell players they won't see the rotation at all if they stick around. Transfer rate is huge in college b-ball.

John Smith's public calling out of Keegan Moore looks awfully convenient when you consider Montalvo and Wittlake are coming in. This is a guy who has struggled since arriving on campus. GET HIM, HR!

S.O.P. for Rene Portland used to be to just inform the player that their scholarship was being pulled. Preferably in the hotel lobby after a loss or at the award banquet.
 
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Here's something that isn't talked about in wrestling, but happens frequently in college basketball. Coaches often put pressure on a disappointing player in an attempt to get them off the books via transfer. They will tell players they won't see the rotation at all if they stick around. Transfer rate is huge in college b-ball.

John Smith's public calling out of Keegan Moore looks awfully convenient when you consider Montalvo and Wittlake are coming in. This is a guy who has struggled since arriving on campus. GET HIM, HR!
HR ain't spitting in anybody else's direction. Both OSUs are significantly ahead of Hawkbirds, but loved because maybe one of them might be able to catch a Lion. In Iowa City it is just becoming more and more apparent. An excellent Hawkeye season is becoming a 3rd place Big10 finish followed by gutting out a 4th place NCAA finish. Little realization that they are much closer to falling below that benchmark than surpassing it.
 
I always figured the cheating they were talking about was the sauna use Spencer Lee slipped up and flat out admitted down in iowa City. Maybe it was the really nice black jackets bought for all of the wrestlers in 2013 including the redshirts by a very friendly booster. I wonder if these were given to all of the iowa students or just the wrestlers? The worst glass house living while throwing stones I have ever even dreamed up would be the Iowa wrestling "family". There are many not so well guarded skirting around the rules examples if you just look at Mother Tomresa's program. A skunk never smells his own scent, but it drifts all the way to Ames when the wind is right. There is a new staff in Ames that knows many a dirty secret.
 
Here's something that isn't talked about in wrestling, but happens frequently in college basketball. Coaches often put pressure on a disappointing player in an attempt to get them off the books via transfer. They will tell players they won't see the rotation at all if they stick around. Transfer rate is huge in college b-ball.

John Smith's public calling out of Keegan Moore looks awfully convenient when you consider Montalvo and Wittlake are coming in. This is a guy who has struggled since arriving on campus. GET HIM, HR!
My understanding is that wrestling scholarships are awarded year-to-year. If that's true (and I believe it is), then a coach is not locked in contractually to giving a scholarship to an athlete every year. Now, if a coach pulls scholarships very often, he may have a credibility problem!
 
My understanding is that wrestling scholarships are awarded year-to-year. If that's true (and I believe it is), then a coach is not locked in contractually to giving a scholarship to an athlete every year. Now, if a coach pulls scholarships very often, he may have a credibility problem!

Yes, the key is to force the hand. Pulling scholies never a good look.
 
The success of PSU is extremely simple, PSU is in Pennsylvania (location matters) and Cael is a great coach not that hard to understand
Love this post...short, candid, and real. All else that I've read is unproven, unsubstantiated horse hooey. Really sounds like sour grapes, conspiracy theory type stuff to me.

If you want to compete, up your game!! The idea of knocking down the other guy is as old as the hills, and still the immature way of dealing.
 
The success of PSU is extremely simple, PSU is in Pennsylvania (location matters) and Cael is a great coach not that hard to understand

It's not hard to understand, but that doesn't stop the degenerates on HR from claiming Cael's success is because he's a cheater.
 
IDK about that. David Carr going Orange instead of Tan is a win for us.
I agree with that. The FULL COURT PRESS thing wasn't about redirecting him out of Ohio.
I guess there could be a peripheral power involved with the Spyker thing.
 
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