There is a SteveJones podcast from last week, I'm guessing maybe Friday and he had Lou Prato on.
Lou had a ton of information about how and why that series ended and the whole Big East cluster. Really interesting stuff...if your into it.
From our Pal Mr. Jones
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There is a SteveJones podcast from last week, I'm guessing maybe Friday and he had Lou Prato on.
Lou had a ton of information about how and why that series ended and the whole Big East cluster. Really interesting stuff...if your into it.
Nope. St John's, Villanova, and Georgetown cast the "no" votes.
It obviously hurt Pitt more than it hurt us to see the series ended.
However, Pitt's problems with their sports programs are self inflicted.
They have badly handled their football program. Bad coaching hires, lack of financial investment, taking their games off campus. Those things are on them. They could have survived one bad decision, but their management has made one bad decision after another since 1984.
Look at their basketball program. They had a fine program that challenged every few years for Big East/ACC titles. They wanted title hopes every year. Again, just not reasonable given their competitors at VA, NC, Duke etc. So they managed to screw up things to the point our program actually is better than theirs. Who would have thought that?
Pitt will survive, but I question whether they will become another Kansas in football and Missouri in basketball.
Largely agree with what you say. It was more of a regional/localized rivalry as Penn State and Pitt got most of its recruits from the same areas and loyalties were sometimes split within the same house. I can imagine that for people living around KOP, Philly, etc., where there were hardly any Pitt alums, how the rivalry would have been more muted. But if you were a Penn State fan back then I’d suspect that even if you did live outside of the Pitt Penn State “region” you must have still recognized Pitt as being Penn State’s main rival. I also agree that it’s time to end the rivalry. There’s little to no upside for Penn State to keep playing Pitt. If you beat the snot out of Pitt, so what, it’s Pitt. No one is impressed. If however you drop a close game to Pitt it’s used as an excuse to keep Penn State out of the playoffs.
Our basketball program is not better than Pitt. Our basketball program has not gone to the NCAA tournament in the entire 7 year tenure of the head coach so far.
We beat them by about 40 last time we played. We'll see how things look this year.
Take PSU and Clemson out and it’s a pretty mediocre football conference.
The statement said program, not year to year results. "Program" in this sense is about a longer period than one year. Pitt has gone to numerous NCAA tournaments in the past 7 years, and Penn State has gone to none.
With only 3 OOC i think we should play
1. one MAC team - not always easy wins but usually
2. one big team. -perennially top 20
3 rotate among our old rivalries for example home and home with Pitt, then Temple, then WVU, the Cuse. and then back around again.
1. one MAC team - not always easy wins but usually
2. one big team. -perennially top 20
3 rotate among our old rivalries for example home and home with Pitt, then Temple, then WVU, the Cuse. and then back around again.
Not going to happen unless you or someone else sends Barbour a large, mid to high seven figures, check every other year.
Temple = Pitt competitively. You are correct, except Philly Metro is a bigger market for TV/alumni/recruiting so it isn't really a fair comparison. Also, Temple is a Tier II school and accepts it, while Pitt runs their mouth like they are Tier I. Pitt should be penalized for the delusional rhetoric and conduct.
Pitt would add absolutely nothing to the B1G .... they aren't even an asset to the ACC.
I remember at the time when it happened and was announced, some of my friends were sitting around talking about it and basically say "why would you aspire to be Temple?" It's crazy to think that they had a reasonable, historic on campus facility and pissed it away. They could have put the basketball facility somewhere else, it's much easier to find space for that.
Two terrible decisions led to the demise of Pitt football. The first was eschewing Joe’s all sports conference, and the second was tearing down the on-campus stadium and instead playing their games on the opposite side of the city. According to Google from Pitt to Heinz is 12 minutes by car (and probably longer with traffic) and about a half an hour by bus. (That seems hard to believe.) Regardless, all Pitt accomplished was to kill the collegiate atmosphere on campus and in the surrounding area. Who wants to sit on a bus in traffic and then what..tailgate in a parking lot? That’s the atmosphere of a pro game. No thanks.
I like the idea of rotating among old eastern rivals, but would prefer Pitt, WVU, Syr and BC.
I think the argument that Pitt's program is not worthy of playing is nonsense (tho other reasons against continuing make sense).
Although clearly the Pitt program is heading in a bad direction, nothing says that can't change.
With the right coach/staff and a renewed comittment from the university, things may sometimes change dramatically in a relatively short time.
Our own program is evidence of that.
I think the argument that Pitt's program is not worthy of playing is nonsense (tho other reasons against continuing make sense).
Although clearly the Pitt program is heading in a bad direction, nothing says that can't change.
With the right coach/staff and a renewed comittment from the university, things may sometimes change dramatically in a relatively short time.
Our own program is evidence of that.
Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Iowa....take two out and you still have a lot. Bama, Auburn, LSU, Georgia, Florida, A&M....take two out and you still have a lot. USC, Washington, Washington State, Utah, Oregon, Arizona State...take two out and you still have a lot. Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TCU, K State, WVU....take two out and you still have a lot. Clemson, Miami, FSU (in most years)....okay, the ACC sucks even without taking two out, but that’s the point....it would be a weak football conference, weaker than the ACC.
Reminds me of the girl that had two chances to get pregnant and blew em both
Thank you, I'll see myself out.
The "Pitt can get back being really good" theory has been floated time after time since I joined this board in the pre-Rivals days of the mid-90's. They're always a good coach or something away from being back to being good, again. The truth is that since WW2 Pitt's program has pretty much what it is now with the exception of the Majors/Sherrill era. They had a nice run starting in '74 or 75, and it was over by '84; that's one decade of quality out of eight. Sure it's possible for them to build a good program, but no more so than any historically near-.500 program. As for the Penn State comparison, you have to go back to the 50's then the early 00's to see a sustained period of near .500 or sub.-500 football. The sanction years were an odd situation, not reflection of what the program was or is. It's just not a good comparison.
Pitt’s football dilemma runs deeper than the end of what was once a rivalry game.
Beyond PSU, Pitt is surrounded by other Big Ten teams, tOSU, Mich, Mich St and now also MD and the Rut.
Those close regional teams are being funded by the Big Ten. BT schools on the high end of the payouts may now be near $50 million per year.
A Mich report showed a projected 2018 BT payout line item over $51 million.
Beyond PSU, Pitt is surrounded by other Big Ten teams, tOSU, Mich, Mich St and now also MD and the Rut.
Those close regional teams are being funded by the Big Ten. BT schools on the high end of the payouts may now be near $50 million per year.
A Mich report showed a projected 2018 BT payout line item over $51 million.
Plus, all the BT teams have regional exposure on the BTN, in an all-sports conference. A huge plus for recruiting.
The biggest challenge from a regional standpoint, as far as Pitt is concerned, is the Big Ten.
Pitt is the sad sister staying home, while the others are being shown on TV throughout the regional recruiting hotbeds.
Plus with BT conference payout money expected to be the highest average for any conference, the BT teams can dress up to show themselves off the best they can.
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For reference from a Feb 2018 report, after the SEC’s TV funding boost and before the BT passed the SEC with their massive TV contracts...
The most recent average payout for each Power 5 league:
- SEC: $40.9 million
- Big Ten: $34.8 million for teams getting full shares [Note: In 2018 and beyond, it may be closer to $50 million?]
- Big 12: also right about $34.8 million
- Pac-12: about $29 million
Given what Pitt is up against in their region, loss of an old rivalry game is not the biggest of their challenges going forward, imho.
Your mileage may vary...
As always, any updates and additions are appreciated.
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Realistically in the next 5 years there is probably 7-8 teams that will win the title. Those teams in my mind are what makes a conference great.
SEC is still top of that list in my eyes. Bama, Georgia, and Auburn.
Big Ten OSU and Penn State. Possibly Wisconsin.
ACC. Clemson. The end
Big 12 Oklahoma.
PAC Anybody?? Would say USC but not sold on coach.
Ohio State has played Indians every year for over 75 years. It is still not a rivalry. Pitt can not be our rival with the present and anticipated talent pool.
Ohio State has played Indians every year for over 75 years. It is still not a rivalry. Pitt can not be our rival with the present and anticipated talent pool.
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Your first mistake was clicking the link. Tsk tsk.
I don’t agree with him when he says hello.
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Actually, Armstrong Cable (Pittsburgh area) is one of the few cable companies that still doesn't carry BTN.
Wednesday, November 18, 1981. That's the day that Pitt, Boston College, and Syracuse unexpectedly stuck the knife right in Joe's back, and destroyed any possibility at all of an Eastern All Sports Conference. That took Pitt from being one of the two strongest and financially flush Athletic Departments in the East, a true "have" at the time, to the pathetic "have not" state of the overall Program it is today.
Serves them right. Oh, what might have been.
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Interesting that PSU mens basketball has more wins than Pitt all-time in their head to head matchups.
I suppose it depends on one's definition of "rivalry". No more competitive than the series has been in my lifetime, I can't consider it a rivalry. I suppose one could consider it as much of a rivalry as we have with Purdue, Indiana, Illinois, Maryland and Rutgers.
