very good! The worse thing about 'our' sport is that other thing they call wrestling... need to change the name - one or the other...
Gable Steveson saga
- Thread starter Pitchfork Rebel
- Start date
If we are being honest, since NIL came into play, anyone receiving NIL money is a professional.
I'm pretty sure that there was a court ruling some time ago that said that pro wrestling was entertainment and not an actual sports contest. Tikk10 - this is a good one for you to clarify here.
So is the NFL, although that is a legitimate sport, too. There is some legal advantage for a professional league to be called "entertainment" instead of "sport", so that distinction on it's own doesn't have a lot of meaning. It's easy to see the difference between the NFL and WWE in terms of legitimate sport vs scripted outcomes (and as much as conspiracy theorists want to whine about the NFL being "fixed", at worst, the league has their thumb on the scale in the NFL as opposed to predetermining the entire outcome beforehand in the WWE).
No offense to any pro wrestling fans here, of course. If you like that, that's fine. It certainly can be entertaining. Just don't kid yourself into thinking the outcome isn't scripted from start to finish.
And on the other hand, you still need to be pretty athletic to do some of the stunts those guys perform in their WWE matches! Just because they are acting doesn't mean they aren't real athletes.
That ruling was in regard to The NBA.
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Kyke Snyder got $250k for winning 2016 Olympic Gold. He retained NCAA eligibility by deferring that payment a few years.
Was Snyder truly any less of a professional in 2017 and 2018 because he hadn't yet deposited the cash?
IIRC it wasn't a court ruling -- it was McMahon's lawyers making that point in court as part of their argument in some case.
Can't remember which case or what the bigger argument was. Maybe someone not on vacation can dredge that up.
Even if it were a sport, it's obviously unrelated to college wrestling.
This is how we got the ridiculous Jeremy Bloom case. Bloom lost mutiple years of college football eligibility because he accepted sponsorships to train for and compete in Olympic skiing.
OK, really he lost the eligibility because NCAA.
It probably cost him an NFL career too. He got drafted anyway, but clearly needed 2-3 years of development that the NCAA denied him.
I’d argue Carter Starocci has nothing to prove either. He’s pretty much dominated through the field 4 times. Sure, bumping up is a new obstacle, but he’s using an extra year of eligibility to get paid to wrestle and live a college lifestyle. I can’t blame anyone, Gable or Carter included, for taking an opportunity like that.
I want Kerk to win as much as anyone. But I also don’t want any rules that cause college wrestlers to wrestle fewer than 4 NCAA tournaments.
I agree with what you're saying but are you sure there is nothing Carter can do? Like maybe a super unique accomplishment that would make him stand alone in history (regardless of how the opportunity came about?)
5 titles would be an incredible, obviously unprecedented accomplishment. However, it kind of sucks to me because those 4 time title winners before him may be looked upon as lesser than him, even though the opportunity to win a fifth, or lack there of, was entirely out of their control.
So, what do you think of the 3-time winners who came before freshmen were allowed to compete at the varsity level?
This is definitely true. I didn’t say they weren’t athletes, just that it isn’t a sport because it isn’t a contest, it’s scripted entertainment.
I consider the accomplishments of the 3-3 guys when freshmen couldn’t compete, the 4-4 guys, and Starocci if he gets 5-5 on the same level. If you wrestle every year you’re allowed to and you win every year, what more can you do?
I get that C-Star wants to do something that’s not only never been done, but also never will be done again, either, unless the NCAA goes to 5 years of eligibility. Who wouldn’t want to do that if they had the chance? That wouldn’t put him ahead of Cael or Brooks in history, though, just because he has one more.
Slumlord Bob would be cutting them checks right now, except they're too young.
As I recall......Vince couldn't get insurance to cover his business. He had to prove that his business was highly regulated entertainment....not a competition. They had to admit that everything was pre-planned and choreographed......as if you couldn't figure that out by watching
I feel more for the group of wrestlers whose opportunity to compete in a 4th NCAA. taken away from them by some bureaucrat.
Dan Gable returns to the mat to win his 3rd NCAA title. His opponent would probably be Carter.
I agree with this and feel for them as well. Doesn’t have to be an either/or there.
It had to do with the use of PED’s. Meaning professional wrestling is free to use it as entertainment. I think one of the states was banning them from holding a sports event over the issue.
Reminder that Gable Steveson started wrestling in college before Jalen Hurts entered the NFL and before the last two US Presidential administrations.
Should make a list of all the things that happened after this old man started at Minnesota.
How about an entire freaking major war in Eastern Europe?
Steveson's tenure at Minnesota has now outlasted the entire American Civil War
It just pisses me off that the guys in Cenzo and Mark's class didn't get a COVID-19 year but here we have a Mormon missionary aged guy inserted magically to try to stop Kerk.
Should make a list of all the things that happened after this old man started at Minnesota.
How about an entire freaking major war in Eastern Europe?
Steveson's tenure at Minnesota has now outlasted the entire American Civil War
It just pisses me off that the guys in Cenzo and Mark's class didn't get a COVID-19 year but here we have a Mormon missionary aged guy inserted magically to try to stop Kerk.
Carter and Greg started one year after him
Max Dean stayed 7 years if you count his greyshirt
Shayne has been approved for a 6th year already
Facundo likely will have 7 if he wants
I think we should sit this one out
Not exactly. Personally, I'm tired of men in their mid 20's beating up 18 and 19 year olds and acting like it's accomplishment.
Carter is 24, just turned.
Gable will be 25 in May
Fix was 26 last March, when he pulled of his deuces wild departure.
Cassar is will be 29 in March and has/had a year of eligibility left. Not sure how long that lasts, but I think he put his MMA on hold, could he make a triumphant return and go for a second?
Somewhere I have a book about a guy that played linebacker in college (D3) in his 50's (he's probably in his 70's now). I think the oldest college wrestler was forty something, but that's long past any advantage, unless age and guile really does beat youth and a bad haircut.
The problem is the NCAA is running a tax exempt sports empire that relies on cartelized compensation restraints. NIL was the concession they made, but it still is going to produce earnings for notable athletes far outside what the normal BA/BS holder can earn in normal employment.
Naturally, there's going to be guys who try to squeeze an extra year or more out of it.
Gable's not alone-but he's the most obvious mercenary, blurring the lines.
He put his shoes on the mat, failed at the WWE, he took a flyer as an inexperienced, undersized DL and he failed. There's no indication that I can find that he was a stellar student in an in-demand major. He had an "AJ" issue. So what does he do with the next Olympics being three years away?
However, there's a clear issue here; rightly or wrongly, he shouldn't have any eligibility left according to the rules.
But somehow, he gets an OLY RS when he wasn't actively pursuing the games. It's a bad look for the whole concept of "college athletics", which is already starting to look like the last dance at closing time.
Of course if I was the guy that was put on the bench so Gable can come back-I'd find another school.
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There is one noteable difference, for two years Gable wasn't even enrolled in college. The other examples, were all continually enrolled.
Cassar eligibility clock is over . Athletes taking an Olympic RS and not competing for the Olympics happens more than you realize and it happens in many different Olympic sports as well. If you qualify for it with the criteria USAW sets at the end of that year you file the paperwork with the NCAA for that extra year. It doesn't state you've to compete it states you've to qualify for an Olympic RS. Saying Gable shouldn't have eligibility left isn't true he should according to the rules. Gable will probably join an RTC and train probably wrestle in a World Championship or two prior to the 2028 games.
You bring up D3 that's a totally different situation they don't have an eligibility clock. You've 10 semesters that you can use and compete in. So if you only did 8 semesters and at 35 decide I want to play a sport again you can.
For D1/D2 you must enroll within 1 year of your high school graduation. And once you enroll your eligibility clock starts. After it starts you've 5 years to compete after that. You also can get extra years for medical hardships and Olympic RS
Regardless if you're enrolled or not your eligibility clock is still running. Also you must meet the % towards degree standards that are set. If you've already graduated that doesn't matter. A grad student needs to take 9 credit hours to be eligible.
The real notable difference is that Steveson never attended Penn State.
Steveson is a great wrestler;however,only,a ridiculous Minnesota law kept him for going to jail on rape charges. (The woman was intoxicated,supposedly.)
Have no love for Steveson.
Have no love for Steveson.
No doubt we have benefited. I still don't like it.
I will go on record saying you should get 6 years to wrestle 4, and the clock starts when you first enroll as a freshman. 6 years no more, not matter the combination of red shirt, oly shirt, break in service or injury.
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