Hand Wringing therapy: 1) Best possible loss 2) All goals still intact 3) Possible rematch

[marisa45]

From my viewpoint, this game was the one loss we could afford and still make the playoff. 1) We lost to the #3 team in the country away after our QB was taken out of the game. 2&3) Beat OSU, Michigan, Michigan State and Iowa (in the championship game) and we’re in. In other words we still control our destiny. There fixed it for you now go back to your lives.

And please, no one knows the extent of Clifford’s injury so until we do, don’t.

 

[psuno1]

From my viewpoint, this game was the one loss we could afford and still make the playoff. 1) We lost to the #3 team in the country away after our QB was taken out of the game. 2&3) Beat OSU, Michigan, Michigan State and Iowa (in the championship game) and we’re in. In other words we still control our destiny. There fixed it for you now go back to your lives.

And please, no one knows the extent of Clifford’s injury so until we do, don’t.

Your right about everything in you post except one thing, OSU is not overrated.

 

[marisa45]

Your right about everything in you post except one thing, OSU is not overrated.

I didn’t say OSU was overrated. OSU is the best team in the Big Ten and I think Michigan is pretty good. We can beat both but not without Clifford. Let’s see what happens with Cliff and reassess.

Otherwise just pointing out to the board, this may set up well for us. If the team leadership steps up (I think we have special leadership this year) then it all hinges on Cliff. Trying to point out that just like the team, the fanbase should stay positive.

Last point would be to remain classy. Yeah they were who we thought they were but congrats on the win. Time to move forward.

By the way, does Clifford have eligibility left after this year?

addendum: I think my OSU sig artwork with Overrated threw you off which is understandable. I put that in there after week three but just like previous years they’re getting better every week, still completely beatable this year. I removed until we beat them.

 

[MacNit07]

From my viewpoint, this game was the one loss we could afford and still make the playoff. 1) We lost to the #3 team in the country away after our QB was taken out of the game. 2&3) Beat OSU, Michigan, Michigan State and Iowa (in the championship game) and we’re in. In other words we still control our destiny. There fixed it for you now go back to your lives.

And please, no one knows the extent of Clifford’s injury so until we do, don’t.

Penn State is not a playoff team. Clifford or no. Full stop.

 

[blion72]

From my viewpoint, this game was the one loss we could afford and still make the playoff. 1) We lost to the #3 team in the country away after our QB was taken out of the game. 2&3) Beat OSU, Michigan, Michigan State and Iowa (in the championship game) and we’re in. In other words we still control our destiny. There fixed it for you now go back to your lives.

And please, no one knows the extent of Clifford’s injury so until we do, don’t.

you are correct and this was discussed before the game. It was critical for Iowa and just important for us. This was in the context of us losing the game with the normal Iowa flukes and the team 100% healthy. A fully healthy PSU team can beat anyone on the remaining schedule. This is why all the discussion on SC, PJ and the rest of the injuries. You are correct, it will be a few days until we know each player's status. So I am with you if we are all 100% good to go, then this team could challenge all the way to CFP.

 

[marisa45]

Penn State is not a playoff team. Clifford or no. Full stop.

Seems like an emotional response to me. Consider how much better we were with Clifford in there. I’m willing to accept I was wrong about Clifford. When on, he’s one of the best Quarterbacks in college football. In the championship round it’s all about QB play and I’ll go as far as to say we CAN beat anybody if he plays up to his potential. It is not a stretch at all to think he would given the opportunity. He’s already proved it. So no, not full stop at all.

If you want to say no Clifford no playoff then I’m with you. Everyone else on this team can be at least adequately replaced.

 

[marisa45]

Even if PSU goes to the playoff (which I doubt, because there is only about a 1/20 chance of defeating Ohio State with Clifford; 1/100 with Roberson), it is extremely difficult to see them advancing to the title game. So yes we are a better team with Clifford but I don't think this is a top four team regardless

OK that is your opinion but I see something different with this team. I see a bit of the old teams in them, Definitely not the best collection of players we ever had but just like some of the great teams of the past, they play extremely well together. They have each other's backs. They care and I don't think they like losing at all. The determination on whether or not this team will be great cannot be made yet. They have every opportunity yet to plant their flag. Losing a top flight QB half way through a game takes an incredible emotional toll. The defense didn't quite answer the bell but give Iowa credit for the play call. I think the defense tightens, reassesses, reorganizes and is better for it. Get Clifford back and I say we roll.

 

[jmorovich]

maybe, but I don't see this team beginning to gel in the same way as some great teams of the past. By the 5th or 6th game the 2005 team was starting to completely steamroll opponents. We couldn't even do that to Villanova or Indiana. Or the 2016 team that was absolutely on fire after beating Minnesota. Not seeing it here

So with Clifford at QB and this offense doing whatever it wanted to build up a 17-3 lead against what many considered one of the best defenses in all of college football, you didn’t see it gelling? They were on pace to win comfortably in Kinnick with Clifford under center. Clifford went out and the offense fell apart. It’s not the end of the world. Let’s see first what’s wrong with Clifford.

As for OSU, they have looked unstoppable…against Akron, Tulsa, Rutgres, and Maryland. Not exactly a murderers row. I’m sure you would have said “No way A&M beats Bama!” Yet it happened. So…everyone needs to relax. Enjoy the bye week and let’s see what happens with injuries and go from there.

 

[fastlax16]

Even if PSU goes to the playoff (which I doubt, because there is only about a 1/20 chance of defeating Ohio State with Clifford; 1/100 with Roberson), it is extremely difficult to see them advancing to the title game. So yes we are a better team with Clifford but I don't think this is a top four team regardless

Winning it is great. Just getting there would be a big accomplishment too. There’s a reason basketball teams care about final four appearances regardless of the outcome.

 

[MacNit07]

Seems like an emotional response to me. Consider how much better we were with Clifford in there. I’m willing to accept I was wrong about Clifford. When on, he’s one of the best Quarterbacks in college football. In the championship round it’s all about QB play and I’ll go as far as to say we CAN beat anybody if he plays up to his potential. It is not a stretch at all to think he would given the opportunity. He’s already proved it. So no, not full stop at all.

If you want to say no Clifford no playoff then I’m with you. Everyone else on this team can be at least adequately replaced.

That is part of what I am saying. Agree with you on a Clifford. And not emotional at all.

I really like this team and thought they played terrific yesterday - all things considered. To think they barely lost with all that was aligned against them. But let’s not kid ourselves, Iowa is not the #2 team. They are a solid top 25 team. Their QB is putrid.

PSU’s Defense is to notch…but they will miss Mustipher.

However, without an adequate running game, this is not a playoff team - Clifford or no. Fix that and you can survive a less than stellar QB or an injury. OLine needs to improve if they want to challenge Ohio State (and other semi-pro teams).

Shame to waste such a defense and kicking game and Dotson. But thought we were looking at 3 losses before the Clifford’s injury. Could be worse now if he is done for year. Such are the breaks….Roberson will get better, but every game will be a dog fight without Cliff.

 

[bourbon n blues]

From my viewpoint, this game was the one loss we could afford and still make the playoff. 1) We lost to the #3 team in the country away after our QB was taken out of the game. 2&3) Beat OSU, Michigan, Michigan State and Iowa (in the championship game) and we’re in. In other words we still control our destiny. There fixed it for you now go back to your lives.

And please, no one knows the extent of Clifford’s injury so until we do, don’t.

You’re entirely correct. This was the one I pegged as the first loss and as the season progressed it would be the best game to lose if we lost one.

 

[marisa45]

That is part of what I am saying. Agree with you on a Clifford. And not emotional at all.

I really like this team and thought they played terrific yesterday - all things considered. To think they barely lost with all that was aligned against them. But let’s not kid ourselves, Iowa is not the #2 team. They are a solid top 25 team. Their QB is putrid.

PSU’s Defense is to notch…but they will miss Mustipher.

However, without an adequate running game, this is not a playoff team - Clifford or no. Fix that and you can survive a less than stellar QB or an injury. OLine needs to improve if they want to challenge Ohio State (and other semi-pro teams).

Shame to waste such a defense and kicking game and Dotson. But thought we were looking at 3 losses before the Clifford’s injury. Could be worse now if he is done for year. Such are the breaks….Roberson will get better, but every game will be a dog fight without Cliff.

No Iowa is not a very good team and won’t represent the BIG in the playoff. They did not impress me which is why I said they are who we thought they were. Whoever comes out of the East will and with the added benefit of playing a murderers row schedule will spank Iowa.

That being said we were up two touchdowns in the first half and could have been up three. In the 2nd Qtr it looked as if we would roll them and should have but we didn’t play complimentary football.

In years past, we haven’t been able to overcome emotional roller coasters and have gotten worse after close emotional losses. If that’s Franklin’s coaching style or the fact we’re missing key players is anyone’s guess. I’m the eternal optimist so I’m going to say CJF finally figures it out with this team and stops the emotional bleed out. If Clifford’s injury is not serious we have a chance. I think a good one. I’m sticking to that sentiment.

 

[fastlax16]

I kind of thought Auburn would have been the best one to lose, if we had to lose just one.

Iowa gives us a chance at redemption in the champ game. I assume we’d likely be at least 7 point favorites on a neutral field w Clifford back

 

[scrivener]

I'm with everyone that with Cliff (who I think we could assume won't be 100% at any point the rest of the season), assuming he even plays after the Illinois game, gives us a shot. But lets be real...we are one of the worst rushing teams in the country of Power 5 teams and our OL is an absolute joke vs mid-majors or actual programs. To even think we can handle the rugged rest of the schedule I think is drinking the kool-aid. The defense has been on the field wayyy too much as JF has said after virtually every game and there really isn't anything that will change that. If Cliff is back for OSU, we have a mild shot of winning the rest...if he isn't back, we might win 3 games more...and that is being generous.

 

[MacNit07]

No Iowa is not a very good team and won’t represent the BIG in the playoff. They did not impress me which is why I said they are who we thought they were. Whoever comes out of the East will and with the added benefit of playing a murderers row schedule will spank Iowa.

That being said we were up two touchdowns in the first half and could have been up three. In the 2nd Qtr it looked as if we would roll them and should have but we didn’t play complimentary football.

In years past, we haven’t been able to overcome emotional roller coasters and have gotten worse after close emotional losses. If that’s Franklin’s coaching style or the fact we’re missing key players is anyone’s guess. I’m the eternal optimist so I’m going to say CJF finally figures it out with this team and stops the emotional bleed out. If Clifford’s injury is not serious we have a chance. I think a good one. I’m sticking to that sentiment.

If Cliff is out, all the coaching in the world will not matter. Roberson needs multiple games to learn…that will result in more Ls.

O$U will represent the Big10 - without breaking a sweat.

 

[MacNit07]

I'm with everyone that with Cliff (who I think we could assume won't be 100% at any point the rest of the season), assuming he even plays after the Illinois game, gives us a shot. But lets be real...we are one of the worst rushing teams in the country of Power 5 teams and our OL is an absolute joke vs mid-majors or actual programs. To even think we can handle the rugged rest of the schedule I think is drinking the kool-aid. The defense has been on the field wayyy too much as JF has said after virtually every game and there really isn't anything that will change that. If Cliff is back for OSU, we have a mild shot of winning the rest...if he isn't back, we might win 3 games more...and that is being generous.

Realistic

 

[nits74]

So with Clifford at QB and this offense doing whatever it wanted to build up a 17-3 lead against what many considered one of the best defenses in all of college football, you didn’t see it gelling? They were on pace to win comfortably in Kinnick with Clifford under center. Clifford went out and the offense fell apart. It’s not the end of the world. Let’s see first what’s wrong with Clifford.

As for OSU, they have looked unstoppable…against Akron, Tulsa, Rutgres, and Maryland. Not exactly a murderers row. I’m sure you would have said “No way A&M beats Bama!” Yet it happened. So…everyone needs to relax. Enjoy the bye week and let’s see what happens with injuries and go from there.

Here's the thing about Penn State and many non elite programs. As most seasons progress, there are an increasing number of injuries. The best programs have the depth to deal with that. We used to be one of those programs. We would become more dominant in November. These days we tend to tail off, and I think that will be repeated this year, particularly because of how much tougher the remaining schedule is. If Clifford is out, no game is a given. And if this QB doesn't improve, this will get real ugly. It's ridiculous that we don't have a better replacement on the roster.

 

[scrivener]

Here's the thing about Penn State and many non elite programs. As most seasons progress, there are an increasing number of injuries. The best programs have the depth to deal with that. We used to be one of those programs. We would become more dominant in November. These days we tend to tail off, and I think that will be repeated this year, particularly because of how much tougher the remaining schedule is. If Clifford is out, no game is a given. And if this QB doesn't improve, this will get real ugly. It's ridiculous that we don't have a better replacement on the roster.

Really good point and PSU of yesteryear was physical and rugged and also wore out their opponents -- that's a truly laughable idea now as this current era under JF doesn't do that. But, to your point, how many pollsters here were mocking Day and OSU for having like 9 qb's on the roster...yet any of Stroud's backups would have been suitable last night. OU won over Texas with their true FR qb as did ND over VT last night. It is JF and the staffs job to realize (well before losing a game) that the season rides or collapses on the health of Sean, who was getting banged up before this game anyways! To not even have Roberson remotely ready is inexcusable for a guy making that much money at the helm of a blue blood. It's truly bad. If it was the 3rd quarter and he got throw in, fine..but we had halftime to figure something out -- to settle him down and come up with snap timing etc...we looked like an average program when our qb went down...we are far from elite.

 

[scrivener]

Exactly right. So was a team with no running game ever a real playoff contender? I don't think we were

And I get it that the game has changed from even 10-15 yrs ago when offenses revolved around the RB's...that isn't the case anymore. Even Bama which has bulldozers every yr still runs spreads and throws all over the place. But they and other consistent playoff programs still CAN run the ball when they have to....they have the ability to muscle up, go power with the formation, and get a game clinching first down on a 3rd and short. JF says it all the time...we have to be able to run when we want to and when we have to. PSU can't do either. Trying to sustain a whole season with Cliff being the focal point of the offense with absolutely no depth behind him is a poorly structured plan by JF et al. We have a big league defense, but even they can't hold up long term without help.

 

[ryoder1]

Let's look at numbers here. With a healthy Clifford and Mustipher we were generously looking at a 40% probability to beat O$U in their place. Now let's assume a 50-60% healthy Clifford and no Mustipher. That would reduce our chances down to about 15-20%. No Clifford and we are less than 1%. Bottom line, there is a shot but remote.

I am hopeful Clifford can return and make us competitive meaning we beat Illinois or hopefully beat them without him. Assume he is back for O$U but unfortunately still a loss. Then I am hopeful we win the rest which I think with a banged up Clifford probably is 50-50 to 40-60 against. I tjink we give scUM a great game even with a 50% healthy Cliffird just because I tjink we get lifted up from the home crowd. Nevertheless, 9-3 is still a decent possibility. Again, that prediction is predicated on Cliffird returning even if not fully healthy. If he is out for the season then all bets are off. We would do well to get to 7 wins.

I agree with other posters on this thread that what has gotten lost in the aftermath of this loss is just how ineffective our running game is. Even a 100% Clifford does not take us to a playoff because we cannot effectively run the ball. The assumption in that statement is a loss to O$U and possibly scUM.

As for Mustipher, obviously would love to get him back but who knows. His loss is not as critical as Clifford's especially against the weaker teams but it becomes much more critical against O$U and scUM, to a lesser extent MSU.

 

[scrivener]

Let's look at numbers here. With a healthy Clifford and Mustipher we were generously looking at a 40% probability to beat O$U in their place. Now let's assume a 50-60% healthy Clifford and no Mustipher. That would reduce our chances down to about 15-20%. No Clifford and we are less than 1%. Bottom line, there is a shot but remote.

I am hopeful Clifford can return and make us competitive meaning we beat Illinois or hopefully beat them without him. Assume he is back for O$U but unfortunately still a loss. Then I am hopeful we win the rest which I think with a banged up Clifford probably is 50-50 to 40-60 against. I tjink we give scUM a great game even with a 50% healthy Cliffird just because I tjink we get lifted up from the home crowd. Nevertheless, 9-3 is still a decent possibility. Again, that prediction is predicated on Cliffird returning even if not fully healthy. If he is out for the season then all bets are off. We would do well to get to 7 wins.

I agree with other posters on this thread that what has gotten lost in the aftermath of this loss is just how ineffective our running game is. Even a 100% Clifford does not take us to a playoff because we cannot effectively run the ball. The assumption in that statement is a loss to O$U and possibly scUM.

As for Mustipher, obviously would love to get him back but who knows. His loss is not as critical as Clifford's especially against the weaker teams but it becomes much more critical against O$U and scUM, to a lesser extent MSU.

Agree on all except the last sentence...I think to a great extent vs msu. Doesn't their RB lead the nation in rushing? They are so balanced and explosive. MSU will be a tough out (unfortunately it looks like they are on the rise again).

 

[ryoder1]

Agree on all except the last sentence...I think to a great extent vs msu. Doesn't their RB lead the nation in rushing? They are so balanced and explosive. MSU will be a tough out (unfortunately it looks like they are on the rise again).

Have not paid a lot of attention to them, admittedly. We will see how good they are when they play scUM. Regardless, good point you raise. On the positive side with that game, hopefully Izzard, Beamon and other replacements are rounding into form by that time.

 

[scrivener]

Have not paid a lot of attention to them, admittedly. We will see how good they are when they play scUM. Regardless, good point you raise. On the positive side with that game, hopefully Izzard, Beamon and other replacements are rounding into form by that time.

absolutely...the DTs behind PJ have actually shown some decent things at times, which is a good thing b/c there was major concern about depth. We can survive PJ being out....Cliff, not a chance...obviously.

 

[ryoder1]

absolutely...the DTs behind PJ have actually shown some decent things at times, which is a good thing b/c there was major concern about depth. We can survive PJ being out....Cliff, not a chance...obviously.

Yep, I was worried when Cliff went out but cautiously optimistic given our control of the game to that point. But then when I saw how ridiculously inept we were without him I was actually embarrassed among other negative emotions!

 

[ryoder1]

Was it just Scruggs committing the false starts? I thought it was an equal opportunity free for all with the entire O-Line adding to the fun.

I listened to a BWI podcast, Thomas Frank another name in there that I forget, anyway I think he is good and the other guy with him. The point he made is that the clapping for the snap was difficult with TR because they are not used to his clap vs Clifford's and thus difficult to hear/distinguish over the crowd noise. Also, according to JF he is not quite as loud as Cliff. Adding to the cluster was the jaw dropping inaction of the coaching staff not to move to a silent, hand signal count much sooner as in after one false start.

 

[Meats Lab]

And nobody remotely believed that we were until the heroics against Wisconsin and Auburn. And it turned out that Wisconsin was not even good.

We didn't even score 40 points against Villanova.

If Clifford is healthy, who are 3 better teams than PSU?

 

[scrivener]

Was it just Scruggs committing the false starts? I thought it was an equal opportunity free for all with the entire O-Line adding to the fun.

I listened to a BWI podcast, Thomas Frank another name in there that I forget, anyway I think he is good and the other guy with him. The point he made is that the clapping for the snap was difficult with TR because they are not used to his clap vs Clifford's and thus difficult to hear/distinguish over the crowd noise. Also, according to JF he is not quite as loud as Cliff. Adding to the cluster was the jaw dropping inaction of the coaching staff not to move to a silent, hand signal count much sooner as in after one false start.

Totally jaw dropping considering virtually every team I see uses the tapping by the guard to signal to the center...how we never thought to do that right away is just another mind boggling thing from this staff. I guess we shouldn't be shocked by collapses like this anymore

 

[scrivener]

If Clifford is healthy, who are 3 better teams than PSU?

Ohio State is better....Michigan would be a toss up as is MSU.

 

[Meats Lab]

Alabama, Georgia and Ohio State all appear to be better.

Georgia yes. Other 2 are interchangeable with PSU (with a healthy Clifford).

 

[ryoder1]

Totally jaw dropping considering virtually every team I see uses the tapping by the guard to signal to the center...how we never thought to do that right away is just another mind boggling thing from this staff. I guess we shouldn't be shocked by collapses like this anymore

C'mon he only gets paid $7 mil a year. Your expectations are way out of line if you think he could implement a silent snap count on the fly.

 

[Meats Lab]

Ohio State is better....Michigan would be a toss up as is MSU.

Why is Ohio State better?

 

[Meats Lab]

I don't know about that. We went down to the wire against Wisconsin, Iowa and Auburn. I'm not sure any of them are good.

And tOSU is better why??

 

[scrivener]

Why is Ohio State better?

Because they are better at the skill positions, possibly at QB, their Oline is actually a strength this year and Harrison at DE would eat us alive. At the game changing positions, they are better. They have exponentially more talent at certain positions than anyone in the B1G.

 

[Meats Lab]

Because they are better at the skill positions, possibly at QB, their Oline is actually a strength this year and Harrison at DE would eat us alive. At the game changing positions, they are better. They have exponentially more talent at certain positions than anyone in the B1G.

Most, if not all of that, is easily refutable

 

[scrivener]

Most, if not all of that, is easily refutable

ok...you're one of those posters. Got it.

 

[Meats Lab]

we can't run the ball. Even an FCS team stifled us. how do you think we are going to outscore Ohio State?

We were on the way to putting up 30 points against Iowa which is a much better defense than osu.

 

[Meats Lab]

ok...you're one of those posters. Got it.

Ok, you say they’re better at game changing positions. Can u be specific and tell me who exactly you’re referring to at both offense and defense skilled positions.

 

[Meats Lab]

yeah, but even scoring 40 against OSU probably isn't enough.

Our D will give up 40 in the Shoe?

 

[ryoder1]

We were on the way to putting up 30 points against Iowa which is a much better defense than osu.

O$U easily disposes of Iowa. OhowIHate has cleaned up their defense and has gotten on a roll. They are once again far ahead of all B10 teams. That includes scUM and our beloved PSU, unfortunately. Same bad movie playing this year also.

 

[scrivener]

Ok, you say they’re better at game changing positions. Can u be specific and tell me who exactly you’re referring to at both offense and defense skilled positions.

Olave and Wilson is the most dynamic WR duo in the conference; Henderson is averaging just under 9ypc and is 3rd in the B1G in rushing; OSU is tops in the league in offense in TD's, yards per play, etc., and it isn't close. I'm not saying we can't win...of course we can beat OSU...we have the roster to compete (as we usually do vs osu). But, do we have the roster + the staff to win, that is seems to be the annual question.