Exactly/ My point was that I don't see the QB position at PSU being evaluated daily. I have not seen a guy sent to the bench because the guy behind him might be better. If you are the QB starter that job is yours.
How is Levis a top 5 or 10 pick?
- Thread starter ryoder1
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how did he do at the combine yesterday compared to the other projected 1st round QBs? Which QB was most impressive?
Hard to say this since we’ve never had a Hurts for Tua situation. If Levis would have played lights out when Clifford got benched, he would have never sat again. He didn’t so they went back to Clifford (as all coaches would have). If Tua would have come in and played poorly, Hurts probably would have been the starter again the following year.
He started one game in 2020 and was given 2.5 quarters. Yes he didn't seize the day but that was a terrible year that was playing wasn't playing.
It wasn't like Clifford was out for 4 weeks and Levis had time to settle in as the starter.
As of 2020 was the screwed up Wuhan year with very little, if not any, team practice. Spring cancelled, summer canceled, fall very limited.
And wasn’t that Ciarrocco’s first….and last. …year as OC? What a screwed up cluster….
Had very little choice but to use the one guy with experience.
Tua played 2 quarters when Hurts got benched. It's not the time, it's what you do with it.
However, that team was snake bitten. Brown MDQ'd, Parsons sat out, our guys were lifting PVC pipe with water in it while a select few never missed more than a week in the weight room. The roster lacked play makers from some '18 and '19 misses and whiffs.
I think had Levis stayed, he would have done well under Yurcich. Worst cast scenario, he takes the job by 12 minutes into the 2nd quarter at Iowa and barring he craps the bed he doesn't relinquish it and Clifford moves on after '21 (via portal or he decides to try the pros then).
I understand what you’re trying to say, but I don’t think Franklin has ever been in a position with his QB room to make that type of decision. The only time he ever got close was in 2020, when he actually did send Clifford to the bench for Levis, who proceeded to do… not great to be kind. Clifford then reclaimed the job and won the next 4 games.
If Clifford didn’t win 11 games + a Rose Bowl this year, I fully believe that we would’ve seen the Allar era begin a lot sooner. I think Franklin has grown out of that “loyal to a fault” mindset that people think he has.
He came in part way through the game before that and then started the next game.
By many accounts Stroud had the best day of anyone throwing. Levis did well, as you’d expect. The issue with Levis has never been his ability to throw in shorts and a T-shirt. The kid has a rocket for an arm and is built like a Mack truck. He will always look good throwing in that environment.
He solidified himself as in the conversation to be drafted in the top 10. Stroud was the best throwing in terms of accuracy and Richardson had an RG3 like combine with his athleticism. Levis was raved about for his arm strength and tested solid. Young didn't participate. All comes down to the coaching staffs and which one they like best
Stetson Bennett has an amazing day as well...still not sure why he's simply dismissed at a late round pick. Fully expect Tampa or NE or someone else that generally drafts well to take him day 2.
No matter how some people want to spin things it is clear Levis is in the first round and high first round at that simply because he has a strong arm and apparently a quick release. That is it. There is nothing else he does that remotely approaches the best QB in the draft level and a top 5 or 10 pick. If he actually performed in practice or games like what he is being touted he would have beaten out Clifford. Oh wait, it was the system not him. Okay he goes to Kentucky and....same mediocre, unimpressive results. The guy hit the genetic lottery with his arm.
I think what is frustrating to many on this board and certainly me is he did diddly squat for us and no it is not Franklin's fault. He could not get us a win at Columbus in '19 when Clifford got hurt, versus Rutgers that year very hum drum. Kentucky? Nothing to see here. If he was this end all be all, elite, world beater talent it would have shown up in his performance even at PSU, screw the system excuses. The cream rises to the top and this cream did not. Yet here we are now with him supposedly being an elite NFL talent. What?
I think what is frustrating to many on this board and certainly me is he did diddly squat for us and no it is not Franklin's fault. He could not get us a win at Columbus in '19 when Clifford got hurt, versus Rutgers that year very hum drum. Kentucky? Nothing to see here. If he was this end all be all, elite, world beater talent it would have shown up in his performance even at PSU, screw the system excuses. The cream rises to the top and this cream did not. Yet here we are now with him supposedly being an elite NFL talent. What?
He performed like you’d expect a guy with a rocket arm to perform against no defense in shorts and a cut off. Which is to say he did well. Whether or not that makes him a top 1st round draft pick is up to you to decide for yourself.
Plus it's too bad QBs aren't evaluated in practice. For what "we" are paying the coaches, they shouldn't be out on the golf course during practice. LOL
Lol...this screams bias and no comprehension of what the draft is about
It's not up to any of us. It's up to the scouts who, by all accounts, love Levis.
The fact anyone thinks he's not a 1st right now is insane. We can debate all we want if he'll be the next Josh Allen or the next Baker Mayfield or the next JaMarcus Russell/Ryan Leaf but he's going in the first barring something insane happening like him getting arrested or failing a drug test.
They love what he could be, not what he necessarily is right now. And I know, you can say that for every prospect. But even as an NFL prospect he needs some seasoning.
And of course he’s going in the 1st Round. No one’s debating that. We’ve all seen the mocks. He’ll probably be off the board by the 5th pick. The debate is whether he SHOULD be, and whether why he is is the right reason. I personally wouldn’t touch him with a 10 foot pole until at the absolute earliest the late 1st/early 2nd, as I think he’ll need a situation where he’s not expected to make an impact for at least 2 years. But I guess that’s why I’m sitting on my couch typing this up instead of getting paid to evaluate players.
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Did you watch any of his games at KU? How he took over at KU and had them in the top ten at one point? Go back and watch some film and you will see it not just an arm and quick release. Coaches raved about his work ethics, leadership, and guts. Said he took over the team and willed them to success.
So you have sour grapes because he didn’t play well here. 2018….. red shirt freshman meaning almost no practice other than running some other team’s offense with other freshmen. 2019- got in vs Ohio State, one of the best teams in the entire country, likely with little time practicing with the A team as Clifford needed a lot of work, and didn’t look like an all star….color me shocked!
Then along came 2020…..new OC hired …..but spring ball cancelled due to Covid. Summer practice…..zero. Season cancelled. Oh wait….let’s play a shortened delayed season because the SEC is playing…..but we won’t allow team practice…..meetings with coaches will be by zoom….. Clifford takes every snap of what little practice they squeeze in…….And Levis didn’t shine when he got one chance…new OC and no practice at all..….color me DOUBLE SHOCKED!!
Come spring 2021 ……first real practices in over a year. CLifford again gets most of the snaps…..he is a returning starter that had a good season but we need to make up for lost time. After a good battle Clifford announced as starter….Levis sees the proverbial hand writing on the wall and transfers out.
He came here at perhaps the worst time to be here….other than the full sanctions years. And with a quality QB ahead of him. Didn’t work out for him. Oh well, thanks for the effort and wish him well.
He was not that great at Kentucky. Just wasn't. Yeah he had some good games and performed well (also lousy) but he was not a transformational player. He did not come up really big in the clutch that I can recall. Ole Miss, two fumbles to lose that game. Yes, he had some good games, not saying he was horrible but was he incredibly good?
Again, if he was first round talent, he could have elevated himself above Clifford. Should not have been that difficult and he could not do it. Didn't Clifford have a great work ethic, good leadership and guts? Probably a reason Clifford kept the starting role. Is that some incredible differentiating factor for Levis?
He is now clearly #4 QB so maybe not top 10. I want to see who is behind him now in the draft.
You're another poster who is clearly infatuated with Levis in a negative way.
With that said, maybe he didn't get to start because Franklin and staffs (-s because it was like a revolving door) made the wrong choice in Will vs. Clifford? Or maybe there were some internal politics involved given the way that Clifford "won the job" several years back on the practice field? Franklin is not a man who is not stubborn, so I could totally see him digging his heels in on the original Clifford decision, similar to playing an injured McSorley no matter what. Don't forget that Clifford's early career is also linked to the Tommy Stevens situation. And at times it almost seemed like Sean had naked pictures of Franklin or something given the fact that he was given so much leash.
And Will still has a Pro Day upcoming, so don't be too sure that his stock drops like you clearly wish for. He has the physical tools, and he did what the QB at Kentucky needed to do based on their scheme and personnel. To say that he needed to win a Heisman and/or lead his team to a National title to get this kind of attention and opportunity is just silly. As far as Clifford goes, the objective NFL personnel have apparently already decided that they have seen enough and aren't interested- while that is not necessarily an indictment of PSU's coaches, it doesn't align well with their decision to let Clifford keep the job in light of monumental struggles.
And stop with the "Oh my dear" nonsense given that Brock freaking Purdy was an injury away from making it to a Superbowl and likely ending up a starter for at least next year, while a more heralded QB like Tua can barely stay on the field. The point is that none of us can predict in advance what any player would actually accomplish if given the opportunity. Some of you need to just get over your disappointment in Will's success.
Personally, I don't think any QB in this draft will be ready for 2 years and very rarely is any QB ready from day 1. Pickett would have benefited from sitting out all of last year. See someone like Tannehill that was rushed and took forever to be the guy he could be. I don't think whether they're ready to start day 1 is relevant unless you're a team that's a player away. Houston, Carolina, Vegas, Indy, etc aren't going to win this year no matter what QB they take so it's about who will be the best in 4-5 years.
Is he clearly 4? Really comes down to the team. Houston, Carolina, Vegas, Indy and Atlanta are all desperate for a QB. Seattle and Detroit have 2 firsts and may want to take a QB that is their future as opposed to Smith or Goff. Richardson's combine was crazy athletic but he's the least accurate. All 4 have some weakness....accuracy, size, reading defenses, etc.
I'm still not convinced Bennett won't be the best.
I watched almost all of his games at Kentucky…he was no better than Clifford and at times worse. Even Kentucky fans don’t understand the hype. My future son in law is a huge UK fan and a season ticket holder, he liked Levis and thought he did a good job at Kentucky, but does not see him as a first round pick. That’s pretty much the consensus of all the UK fans I work with.
I said several times that I don’t see him as a first round pick. But he certainly has a better shot at a pro career than Clifford.
And all the angst and anger as to why he didn’t beat out Clifford is maddening. And has been explained multiple times.
Baffling.
No matter how some people want to spin things it is clear Levis is in the first round and high first round at that simply because he has a strong arm and apparently a quick release. That is it. There is nothing else he does that remotely approaches the best QB in the draft level and a top 5 or 10 pick. If he actually performed in practice or games like what he is being touted he would have beaten out Clifford. Oh wait, it was the system not him. Okay he goes to Kentucky and....same mediocre, unimpressive results. The guy hit the genetic lottery with his arm.
I think what is frustrating to many on this board and certainly me is he did diddly squat for us and no it is not Franklin's fault. He could not get us a win at Columbus in '19 when Clifford got hurt, versus Rutgers that year very hum drum. Kentucky? Nothing to see here. If he was this end all be all, elite, world beater talent it would have shown up in his performance even at PSU, screw the system excuses. The cream rises to the top and this cream did not. Yet here we are now with him supposedly being an elite NFL talent. What?
Wait...so because he couldn't win in Columbus he's unimpressive? Lots of QBs should quit the game using that logic.
We all know he wasn't surrounded by great talent at Kentucky
You nor I have any clue who should have started for us bit you're still claiming, despite acknowledging he's a high first, you don't see him being a first round talent.
I haven't seen denial like this since most people hated Silas Redd for doing what he thought was best. Not everyone that leaves Penn State is garbage contrary to what you want to believe.
I hope he does well. I am very skeptical he will have an NFL career of any note. Just calling it like I see it.
Has he stayed we would have beaten both Ohio and Virginia. Relying on our fourth string running back is never good.
That response is what I'm taking about.
He didn't owe us anything and him leaving absolutely hurt us.
Even you in your even keeled views have to understand why a kid like Redd is thought of negatively where as players like Mauti are remembered fondly.
Redd and the other 11 (whatever the # was, I'm not looking it up) who left were all huge losses. They could have stabilized a program that was about to be in flux.
However, loyalty means something sometimes.
well, the college game and pro games are quite different. Because one does X in college doesn't necessarily translate to the NFL. Good and bad.
I can't compare Kentucky to PSU...there are ten different players on the field other than QB. But what I recall of Levis soph season with PSU:
- We lost the first five games at catastrophic losses at RB going into the COVID-shortened season
- We won the next four: Michigan, Rutgers, Sparty and Illinois
- Levins played in 8 games with one start.
- The team really only had two good seniors in Yetur and KJ Hamler. The OL sucked and our short game was non-existent.
- WL was 33 of 65 passing (60%) with a 7.7 YPC average. 16 to 9 TD to INTs
- SC was 152 of 251 passing (60.6%) with a 7.5 YPC average. 1 to 0 TD to INTs
- Considering WL played in more backup times but had less first-team practice prep, almost a mirror image of each other.
- What I do recall, that the stats don't catch, is that WL was put in to protect leads in the fourth quarter to move the chains, establish ball control, and protect the lead. He was a much better short-yardage runner by a long shot. Both scored 3 TDs even though SC had much more playing time.
What I have heard is that WL thought he deserved the right to challenge for the starter's position and realized he had no shot. So he transferred. In hindsight, I don't know how anyone can argue that WL transferring wasn't the right decision for him. SC was a serviceable QB. He was not a great QB and was probably rubbing up against good. I'd give him a C+.
There is no way to know what WL would have done at PSU versus SC. I love SC as a player but he was never a game-changer and not a good runner. I respect him. CJF had a tough decision to make. WL leaving left the cupboard bare at QB and really cost us against Iowa when SC got hurt. It also cost us the Illinois game when, after a cheap shot reinjuring SC, I could have played QB better than him.
I don't expect Redd to be remember like Mauti. Mauti should be more favorably thought of but we shouldn't be referring to him as Fledd or bashing Levis for moving on. It's their life and players should always do what they think is best. Loyalty is great but sometimes it will also bite you in the ass.
Redd
Levis leaving may or may have hurt us--we'll never truly know. Well it hurt us against Iowa at the very least.
Most recent talk has been really critical of his tape which is fair and should be looked at as the main factor rather than projecting what he could be.
