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Pitt-Toledo game thread

I liked my eastern conference better
Replace UMass with Temple and I’d love it. Bring the basketball schools into the fold as well…

What I’ve always found funny is that the northeast dominated college football for the first 50-60 years. They should be more than enough programs to field a competitive regional conference that has control of the east coast markets. Army and Navy, Fordham, Carnegie Tech, the Ivy Leagues, and so on.
 
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All we had to do was unite the old Eastern independents and it would’ve had the makings of one of the best conferences in the country:

Florida State
Miami
Penn State
Pitt
South Carolina
Syracuse
Virginia Tech
West Virginia

Add Boston College and Maryland...and you've got a dandy 10-team league with room left over for 2-3 out-of-conference opponents.

It was doable and Paterno wanted to do it.
 
PSU has been in the Big 10 for 31 years now; it’s time to move on. This conference has been great for the overall athletic program. Almost every athletic program that either isn’t in the Big 10 or SEC would do anything to become a member of one of these conferences.
Young boy, we’ll move on when we are good and ready!
 
All we had to do was unite the old Eastern independents and it would’ve had the makings of one of the best conferences in the country:

Florida State
Miami
Penn State
Pitt
South Carolina
Syracuse
Virginia Tech
West Virginia
That conference is the ACC today with Penn State, USCe and a mid-tier Big XII team. It's no different than the ACC
 
That conference is the ACC today with Penn State, USCe and a mid-tier Big XII team. It's no different than the ACC
The difference is that conference likely would’ve picked up Boston College, Maryland, and Rutgers as well. It would’ve been one of the first leagues to have their own TV network and would be in a position of strength during realignment.
 
The difference is that conference likely would’ve picked up Boston College, Maryland, and Rutgers as well. It would’ve been one of the first leagues to have their own TV network and would be in a position of strength during realignment.
Having their own network isn't the issue. The ACC does as well. The issue is the lack of top teams. You get ND to join that and you have something to work with but adding Penn State and South Carolina to the ACC keeps it where it is right now. Way behind the big 2.
 
Georgetown, St. John’s, and Villanova didn’t know what was for their own good.

Syracuse too, which was a basketball powerhouse.

The Big East had to choose between basketball and football. And since that league was the premier college hoops conference in the country, the schools chose basketball.

It worked out fine for Georgetown, St. Johns, Villanova, Connecticut and the basketball schools. You might say it was for their good.

For the schools with viable and successful football programs, however: not so much in the end.

Well hindsight is always 20-20. Paterno was a visionary. He saw the handwriting on the wall in the early 80s. But he couldn't get a number of schools to look at it with him.
 
Syracuse too, which was a basketball powerhouse.

The Big East had to choose between basketball and football. And since that league was the premier college hoops conference in the country, the schools chose basketball.

It worked out fine for Georgetown, St. Johns, Villanova, Connecticut and the basketball schools. You might say it was for their good.

For the schools with viable and successful football programs, however: not so much in the end.

Well hindsight is always 20-20. Paterno was a visionary. He saw the handwriting on the wall in the early 80s. But he couldn't get a number of schools to look at it with him.
Sorry, I was referring to the schools who voted “no” on Penn State joining the Big East. But you’re right. It made sense at the time since basketball made more more than football, but none of them saw the big picture of where college sports was headed.
 
That was a tight end throwing to another tight end. Crazy and crazier not to run in on 4th and one.
I thought the guy he threw it to was number 97. Therefore, I assumed he was a D end or something. Also part of me thinks that the whole reason they started running the tight end and having him throw passes was because that’s what Warren does. Franklin is continuously in douche’s head.
 
I thought the guy he threw it to was number 97. Therefore, I assumed he was a D end or something. Also part of me thinks that the whole reason they started running the tight end and having him throw passes was because that’s what Warren does. Franklin is continuously in douche’s head.
That would not be surprising. The Duz would be a gym teacher if not a football coach. He’s not known to be a creative thinker.
 
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Trying to imagine that juggernaut Eastern conference Joe envisioned

Penn State
Pitt
Rutgers
Maryland
Syracuse
Boston College
UMass
West Virginia
Virginia
Va Tech

We’d never lose in the regular season. Ever.
Back in those days several of those teams were far better than they are now. Pitt, Syracuse, West Virginia, Maryland were consistently top twenty teams. Boston College and V Tech had some good teams.

I think if they listened to Joe and formed a league it would have helped those teams maintain quality. Playing us every year gets tv attention which means money and recruiting. The league probably would have gotten a bowl contract.

Don’t think it would have gotten to B2G or SEC status but probably ACC parity.
 
Back in those days several of those teams were far better than they are now. Pitt, Syracuse, West Virginia, Maryland were consistently top twenty teams. Boston College and V Tech had some good teams.

I think if they listened to Joe and formed a league it would have helped those teams maintain quality. Playing us every year gets tv attention which means money and recruiting. The league probably would have gotten a bowl contract.

Don’t think it would have gotten to B2G or SEC status but probably ACC parity.
In 1982 Pitt had NFL HOF QB Marino, Maryland had Boomer Esiason, BC had Flutie, West Virginia had Jeff Hostetler. Those teams were good football teams.

That’s 4 good NFL QBs we played against in 1982 and I might be missing 1 or 2 more. People make fun of the weak eastern teams
 
Back in those days several of those teams were far better than they are now. Pitt, Syracuse, West Virginia, Maryland were consistently top twenty teams. Boston College and V Tech had some good teams.

I think if they listened to Joe and formed a league it would have helped those teams maintain quality. Playing us every year gets tv attention which means money and recruiting. The league probably would have gotten a bowl contract.

Don’t think it would have gotten to B2G or SEC status but probably ACC parity.
Great TV markets too……..
 
Great TV markets too……..
Yep. East coast population with money. NYC, Boston, Philly, DC, Pittsburgh.

And having a regional footprint makes for heated rivalries, recruiting battles, ticket sales, free press/media coverage.

In short…….what college football is all about. Or is supposed to be. Or was…..😿
 
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I thought the guy he threw it to was number 97. Therefore, I assumed he was a D end or something. Also part of me thinks that the whole reason they started running the tight end and having him throw passes was because that’s what Warren does. Franklin is continuously in douche’s head.
I believe it was TE Overman no 87 i believe but could be wrong.
 
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I believe it was TE Overman no 87 i believe but could be wrong.
I stand corrected after reading an account on the Pitt Board, where it is stated that Bartholemew attempted the pass to Isiah Neal, a DEFENSIVE TACKLE NO LESS. Bartholemew pass was terrible, and the effort was good but a TE or Wideout could have tipped the ball to himself or better timed the jump. Never ever saw a play such as that.
 
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PSU has been in the Big 10 for 31 years now; it’s time to move on. This conference has been great for the overall athletic program. Almost every athletic program that either isn’t in the Big 10 or SEC would do anything to become a member of one of these conferences.
Great post! An eastern conference even with us in it would have collapsed as it did anyway. I never liked the Big East conference, it wasn't an all sports conference (no wonder it was a b-ball power, they just cherry picked those smaller b-ball power schools with no cred in any other sports). And the ACC is on life support. I'm glad we're in the B10. Especially for how it has benefited other smaller sports, like wrestling. We have no Cael, and no wrestling dynasty without being in the B10. Volleyball, field hockey benefited too IMO.
 
Back in those days several of those teams were far better than they are now. Pitt, Syracuse, West Virginia, Maryland were consistently top twenty teams. Boston College and V Tech had some good teams.

I think if they listened to Joe and formed a league it would have helped those teams maintain quality. Playing us every year gets tv attention which means money and recruiting. The league probably would have gotten a bowl contract.

Don’t think it would have gotten to B2G or SEC status but probably ACC parity.

Spin, keep in mind that the B2G wouldn't have gotten to today's B2G status without us joining.

When we joined that league, its season consisted of one game, Ohio State versus Michigan, which played each other every November for the right to lose in the Rose Bowl.

Neither the Buckeyes nor the Wolverines had won a national championship in decades. They were living strictly on their names and past glory. The rest of the conference was largely mediocre and the bowl records were an indicator of that.

Our entry breathed new life into that conference, and they thanked us with resentful and petty treatment that continues to this day.

How many league openers in a row did we play on the road? Just one small but instructive example of petty chickenshit to send a message: know your place.

Like I said, it is what it is...and there's no going back. I think membership in the league has been good for the university as a whole and for the other athletic programs...but not for the football team, which selfishly is the thing I care about the most.

Also, it's true, now that the conference has maneuvered itself into the position of one of the two big elephants in the college football room, membership obviously has big advantages from that standpoint.

But none of this means I need to like or forget or forgive the treatment they've accorded...and continue to accord...our football team over the course of many years.
 
Having their own network isn't the issue. The ACC does as well. The issue is the lack of top teams. You get ND to join that and you have something to work with but adding Penn State and South Carolina to the ACC keeps it where it is right now. Way behind the big 2.
Can’t compare that with the ACC’s current deal, IMO. The ACC’s deal with ESPN (including the network) essentially hamstrings the conference. Remember, Swofford did it as part of a “sweetheart” deal with his son’s RayCom network.

A hypothetical East coast league with the northeast markets likely would’ve had a deal that involved Comcast and would be much more lucrative. It also wouldn’t have been held down by Tobacco Road politics. That’s why I think it’d be in a much better position for realignment.
 
Great post! An eastern conference even with us in it would have collapsed as it did anyway. I never liked the Big East conference, it wasn't an all sports conference (no wonder it was a b-ball power, they just cherry picked those smaller b-ball power schools with no cred in any other sports). And the ACC is on life support. I'm glad we're in the B10. Especially for how it has benefited other smaller sports, like wrestling. We have no Cael, and no wrestling dynasty without being in the B10. Volleyball, field hockey benefited too IMO.
Pretty impossible to make predictions on ghe ‘what if’ game but things would certainly be different.

As Jerry pointed out our joining the B2G gave them a big boost. Without us they don’t add Rutgers or Maryland? Without us do they get financing to start the BTN Network? Without that do they get the PAC teams?

I still contend that in an eastern conference teams like Pitt, Maryland, BC, Syracuse would all be better than they are now. It may have even picked up a couple ACC teams along the way.

This board gets more agitated for Rutgers games than Minnesota. We don’t even play Pitt but the rivalry is still strong. Travel to away games easier, cheaper, less time consuming and more fun.

Playing teams like Wisky, Minnie, Purdue, Northwestern is worse because they are so far off there is no overlap of fan base, little recruiting clashes, little press coverage. In short boring as hell.
 
Can’t compare that with the ACC’s current deal, IMO. The ACC’s deal with ESPN (including the network) essentially hamstrings the conference. Remember, Swofford did it as part of a “sweetheart” deal with his son’s RayCom network.

A hypothetical East coast league with the northeast markets likely would’ve had a deal that involved Comcast and would be much more lucrative. It also wouldn’t have been held down by Tobacco Road politics. That’s why I think it’d be in a much better position for realignment.
How? It was always going to be a 2 conference leggue.
I don't understand how you think this Eastern Conference is on par with the SEC or Big Ten. It's not--the TV money wouldn't be close to comparable
Yes, your plan is great for Pitt but not Penn State or USCe.
 
Playing teams like Wisky, Minnie, Purdue, Northwestern is worse because they are so far off there is no overlap of fan base, little recruiting clashes, little press coverage. In short boring as hell.
So you're excited when we play Maryland and Rutgers? Come on
I'd much rather play Wisconsin and Minnesota than any of the old school rivals that are pure garbage right now
I also don't see why forming an Eastern Conference would have made them better. Penn State is a brand but you need more than Penn State and Miami/FSU to carry a conference.
 
How? It was always going to be a 2 conference leggue.
I don't understand how you think this Eastern Conference is on par with the SEC or Big Ten. It's not--the TV money wouldn't be close to comparable
Yes, your plan is great for Pitt but not Penn State or USCe.
I think you have it backwards. It’s shifted to two conferences because of money. An east coast conference that had all the major northeast markets plus a few others (Atlanta, Miami) would’ve been on-par or exceeded the Big Ten and SEC. Remember, the Big Ten got the network and eventually took the lead in revenue thanks to PSU, Maryland, and Rutgers.

This hypothetical league likely could’ve agreed to a partnership with Notre Dame and could’ve been the one to pick off the Pac-12.
 
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I think you have it backwards. It’s shifted to two conferences because of money. An east coast conference that had all the major northeast markets plus a few others (Atlanta, Miami) would’ve been on-par or exceeded the Big Ten and SEC. Remember, the Big Ten got the network and eventually took the lead in revenue thanks to PSU, Maryland, and Rutgers.

This hypothetical league likely could’ve agreed to a partnership with Notre Dame and could’ve been the one to pick off the Pac-12.
It wouldn't have been on par with either of those. The Big Ten still will have expanded. I don't know how you're looking at the ACC today and believing any of this.
 
An Eastern League MIGHT still be around and highly successful today if Penn State, Miami, and Florida State put it together between '88 and '94. The issue is, the ACC existed already and we would have had to join it sooner (Miami as well, who ironically hasn't won squat since leaving the Big East). Additionally, we'd still probably be hamstrung by the ACCs folly's and terrible contracts.

While the Big 10 wouldn't have grown the way it did without us (say what you will, we upped the quality of football played in that league and then nose-dived at the tail end of '99), we still gained an exponential amount that we wouldn't have otherwise. Even if we weren't wanted, both sides have benefited.

That said, population shifts are as much to credit as anything. The south has seen the biggest influx of people. It's not a coincidence that they've seen the influx of talent (and money). At the end of the day, it was very likely always going to be the SEC and somebody else (currently the Big 10). Us being in the ACC just changes the dynamic of who did what.

I can't look back and predict any future that screams "a PSU led Eastern league would be the #2 conference today" unless PSU/FSU/Miami all could have convinced Notre Dame to join. Probably more likely the Big 10 poached Texas and Oklahoma before the SEC did if we never joined in '93.
 
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An Eastern League MIGHT still be around and highly successful today if Penn State, Miami, and Florida State put it together between '88 and '94. The issue is, the ACC existed already and we would have had to join it sooner (Miami as well, who ironically hasn't won squat since leaving the Big East). Additionally, we'd still probably be hamstrung by the ACCs folly's and terrible contracts.

While the Big 10 wouldn't have grown the way it did without us (say what you will, we upped the quality of football played in that league and then nose-dived at the tail end of '99), we still gained an exponential amount that we wouldn't have otherwise. Even if we weren't wanted, both sides have benefited.

That said, population shifts are as much to credit as anything. The south has seen the biggest influx of people. It's not a coincidence that they've seen the influx of talent (and money). At the end of the day, it was very likely always going to be the SEC and somebody else (currently the Big 10). Us being in the ACC just changes the dynamic of who did what.

I can't look back and predict any future that screams "a PSU led Eastern league would be the #2 conference today" unless PSU/FSU/Miami all could have convinced Notre Dame to join. Probably more likely the Big 10 poached Texas and Oklahoma before the SEC did if we never joined in '93.
This...Texas and OU likely would be in the Big Ten. The Big XII probably never exists at least as it does today.
 
It wouldn't have been on par with either of those. The Big Ten still will have expanded. I don't know how you're looking at the ACC today and believing any of this.
And I’m not sure why you’re equating a hypothetical East coast league with today’s ACC. There are massive differences between the two:
  • The ACC never had five of the ten largest media markets
  • A hypothetical East coast conference wouldn’t have been plagued by a poor media deal driven by nepotism and Tobacco Road politics
Let’s say sometime between 1988-94, a conference was put together that looked like this: Boston College, FSU, Georgia Tech, Maryland, Miami, PSU, Pitt, Rutgers, South Carolina, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, and WVU.

They, not the Big Ten or SEC, would lead the way in TV revenue through the 2010s (instead of NBCSN, you likely get a linear Eastern Conference Network before the BTN or SECN). That also means they’d be in the best position for westward expansion or even adding Notre Dame, which would be theoretically possible if both have deals in place with NBC.
 
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And I’m not sure why you’re equating a hypothetical East coast league with today’s ACC. There are massive differences between the two:
  • The ACC never had five of the ten largest media markets
  • A hypothetical East coast conference wouldn’t have been plagued by a poor media deal driven by nepotism and Tobacco Road politics
Let’s say sometime between 1988-94, a conference was put together that looked like this: Boston College, FSU, Georgia Tech, Maryland, Miami, PSU, Pitt, Rutgers, South Carolina, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, and WVU.

They, not the Big Ten or SEC, would lead the way in TV revenue through the 2010s (instead of NBCSN, you likely get a linear Eastern Conference Network before the BTN or SECN). That also means they’d be in the best position for westward expansion or even adding Notre Dame, which would be theoretically possible if both have deals in place with NBC.
You’re new here. This cat Lando takes the opposite position from common sense on any topic known to man. Especially if he can get a dig in at Penn State, subtle or otherwise.
 
And I’m not sure why you’re equating a hypothetical East coast league with today’s ACC. There are massive differences between the two:
  • The ACC never had five of the ten largest media markets
  • A hypothetical East coast conference wouldn’t have been plagued by a poor media deal driven by nepotism and Tobacco Road politics
Let’s say sometime between 1988-94, a conference was put together that looked like this: Boston College, FSU, Georgia Tech, Maryland, Miami, PSU, Pitt, Rutgers, South Carolina, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, and WVU.

They, not the Big Ten or SEC, would lead the way in TV revenue through the 2010s (instead of NBCSN, you likely get a linear Eastern Conference Network before the BTN or SECN). That also means they’d be in the best position for westward expansion or even adding Notre Dame, which would be theoretically possible if both have deals in place with NBC.
As noted that Lando guy takes the opposite of whatever anyone says even when he is wrong which is most of the time and will drag it our for 50 pages of drivel - the dude has no life outside of the board it seems.
 
And I’m not sure why you’re equating a hypothetical East coast league with today’s ACC. There are massive differences between the two:
  • The ACC never had five of the ten largest media markets
  • A hypothetical East coast conference wouldn’t have been plagued by a poor media deal driven by nepotism and Tobacco Road politics
Let’s say sometime between 1988-94, a conference was put together that looked like this: Boston College, FSU, Georgia Tech, Maryland, Miami, PSU, Pitt, Rutgers, South Carolina, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, and WVU.

They, not the Big Ten or SEC, would lead the way in TV revenue through the 2010s (instead of NBCSN, you likely get a linear Eastern Conference Network before the BTN or SECN). That also means they’d be in the best position for westward expansion or even adding Notre Dame, which would be theoretically possible if both have deals in place with NBC.
I think this is delusional. If ND hasn't joined the Big Ten as is they aren't joining that. The Big Ten and SEC have way better options to expand westward.

The Eastern Conference would have still suffered the same fate. Miami/FSU aren't good enough to be 1 2 or 3 when completing with Michigan/Ohio State and half of the SEC. You'd have to hope that Miami-Penn State became an intense rivalry and never faded. There's so much mediocrity here there aren't even words. Also no idea why you think USCe and FSU join this.
You realize no one wants BC today despite the market, yes?
 
As noted that Lando guy takes the opposite of whatever anyone says even when he is wrong which is most of the time and will drag it our for 50 pages of drivel - the dude has no life outside of the board it seems.
Lol--I'm not wrong or alone in this argument.
 
I think this is delusional. If ND hasn't joined the Big Ten as is they aren't joining that. The Big Ten and SEC have way better options to expand westward.

The Eastern Conference would have still suffered the same fate. Miami/FSU aren't good enough to be 1 2 or 3 when completing with Michigan/Ohio State and half of the SEC. You'd have to hope that Miami-Penn State became an intense rivalry and never faded. There's so much mediocrity here there aren't even words. Also no idea why you think USCe and FSU join this.
You realize no one wants BC today despite the market, yes?
Baghdad Bob: “The Americans are being stopped in their tracks.”
Joe Biden: “Before God, I will always level with you.”
LeBron: “Christmas is the NBA’s day.
Lando: “I think this is delusional.”
 
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