General consensus is that it was an issue with the auto-pilot, the stall warning system and the pilots not being able to disable those systems and take back control of the plane, which is what happened in the LionAir crash several months ago. But what has bothered me is that multiple witnesses on the ground said the plane was smoking and dropping debris from the rear. It was also making strange noises. Something different happened this time.
Yesterday, someone named Tom McAndrew posted a link to a Reuters article on the crash.
From the article;
The aircraft’s ground speed after departure was unusually high, the Reuters source said, reaching around 400 knots (460 miles per hour) rather than the 200 to 250 knots that is more typical minutes after departure.
“That is way too fast,” the source said.
Think about driving your car in a parking lot. To make a right turn at 15 mph, you need to turn the wheel quite a bit. But on a road at 30 mph, you turn the wheel much less to make the same turn. Keep that in mind.
The Max planes have much more powerful engines than the old 737s. When the crew started down the runway, they over-powered the engines and were going way too fast.
As it started the take off roll at 460 mph the pilot used the same inputs he would at 230 mph so the nose of the plane lifted up more quickly than normal. And at that speed the air pressure on the underside of the fuselage and wings would cause the nose to lift even faster.
This rapid and extreme rotation caused the tail of the plane to hit the runway very hard, causing heavy damage to the tail and rear stabilizers. (Watch a normal take off and you will see that as the nose rises, the tail drops and often comes pretty close to the runway. There have been several incidents where the tail struck the runway and the planes had to return and be repaired.) At the same time, the flight control systems would register the nose as being too high, activate the stall system, and try to bring the nose down.
Now the pilot would have felt the impact of the tail and knows he needs to get altitude quickly to buy time to regain control. He would try to keep nose up and de-activate the computerized flight. You have the computers trying to bring the nose down, the pilot trying to keep the nose up and gain altitude, and both having problems because the plane isn't responding as it should because of the tail damage. Even if the pilot was successful in turning off the computer control system and was flying fully manual, he would still have trouble keeping level flight with tail so badly damaged.
No more than two minutes later, the air traffic controller was in communication with other aircraft when the voice from Ethiopian Airlines flight 302 interrupted, saying “break, break” - signaling that other non-urgent communications should cease. He sounded very scared, the source said.
“He requested permission to return. Air traffic control granted him permission to turn on the right because to the left is the city,” he said. “Maybe one minute passed before the blinking dot on the radar disappeared.”
He kept the plane going for two minutes and requested a return to the airport. He made a right turn and then disappeared of the radar. I think he was able to control the plane until he tried to turn. But by now he would have going over 500 knots. Turning at that speed in heavy air (low altitude) the plane would turn much quicker than a normal approach turn at lower speed. And a quick turn would put additional stresses on an already damaged plane. Thats when he lost control and the plane crashed.
This explains why the plane was smoking and trailing debris. Also explains why an experienced pilot would have trouble controlling the plane even if he shut off the computer controls. If this is what happened, then the plane is safe to fly but pilots needed better training in controlling speeds and take off rotation.
Yesterday, someone named Tom McAndrew posted a link to a Reuters article on the crash.
From the article;
The aircraft’s ground speed after departure was unusually high, the Reuters source said, reaching around 400 knots (460 miles per hour) rather than the 200 to 250 knots that is more typical minutes after departure.
“That is way too fast,” the source said.
Think about driving your car in a parking lot. To make a right turn at 15 mph, you need to turn the wheel quite a bit. But on a road at 30 mph, you turn the wheel much less to make the same turn. Keep that in mind.
The Max planes have much more powerful engines than the old 737s. When the crew started down the runway, they over-powered the engines and were going way too fast.
As it started the take off roll at 460 mph the pilot used the same inputs he would at 230 mph so the nose of the plane lifted up more quickly than normal. And at that speed the air pressure on the underside of the fuselage and wings would cause the nose to lift even faster.
This rapid and extreme rotation caused the tail of the plane to hit the runway very hard, causing heavy damage to the tail and rear stabilizers. (Watch a normal take off and you will see that as the nose rises, the tail drops and often comes pretty close to the runway. There have been several incidents where the tail struck the runway and the planes had to return and be repaired.) At the same time, the flight control systems would register the nose as being too high, activate the stall system, and try to bring the nose down.
Now the pilot would have felt the impact of the tail and knows he needs to get altitude quickly to buy time to regain control. He would try to keep nose up and de-activate the computerized flight. You have the computers trying to bring the nose down, the pilot trying to keep the nose up and gain altitude, and both having problems because the plane isn't responding as it should because of the tail damage. Even if the pilot was successful in turning off the computer control system and was flying fully manual, he would still have trouble keeping level flight with tail so badly damaged.
No more than two minutes later, the air traffic controller was in communication with other aircraft when the voice from Ethiopian Airlines flight 302 interrupted, saying “break, break” - signaling that other non-urgent communications should cease. He sounded very scared, the source said.
“He requested permission to return. Air traffic control granted him permission to turn on the right because to the left is the city,” he said. “Maybe one minute passed before the blinking dot on the radar disappeared.”
He kept the plane going for two minutes and requested a return to the airport. He made a right turn and then disappeared of the radar. I think he was able to control the plane until he tried to turn. But by now he would have going over 500 knots. Turning at that speed in heavy air (low altitude) the plane would turn much quicker than a normal approach turn at lower speed. And a quick turn would put additional stresses on an already damaged plane. Thats when he lost control and the plane crashed.
This explains why the plane was smoking and trailing debris. Also explains why an experienced pilot would have trouble controlling the plane even if he shut off the computer controls. If this is what happened, then the plane is safe to fly but pilots needed better training in controlling speeds and take off rotation.
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