I VOTED AGAINST THE $49 MILLION LASCH EXPANSION— THIS IS THE EXPLANATION FOR MY VOTE

[Raffycorn]

I have always had the question of what value does fielding a men's and women's golf/tennis/swimming/gymnastics/fencing team provide to any school? I see no benefit to the school fielding non-revenue generating sports with the exception of the possibility of a few more meaningless trophies in the hallway that no one cares about.

Because at the end of the day, those sports have a ton of student-athletes, most of which are paying a bunch of money in tuition because the NCAA doesn't allocate a lot of scholarships for those sports, and former student-athletes tend to be your more active and passionate alumni.

Mens and womens golf, tennis, swimming, gymnastics, and fencing combine to lose about $4M a year, and their rosters combine to have over 200 student-athletes - and, given the nature of those sports and the specialized (read: expensive) training that's required to get to the D1 level, you can wager a guess that most of those 200 student-athletes are students who come from a little bit of money. Those sports are actually pretty efficient when it comes to a "dollars spent per student athlete" perspective. Even moreso when you consider that most of the co-ed sports share the same coaching staff.

Women's basketball, to use an example, loses more money by itself ($5M) than all of the above-referenced sports combined. Women's volleyball loses $1.5M a year to support a roster of 16.

 

[Thomas1945]

Hopefully without being returned to the asylum for a recurring bout of schizophrenia I’m both for and against the Lasch expansion referendum. Entities should have a desire to improve themselves and take risks even in difficult economic times with an uncertain future. Otherwise stagnation often leads to failure. Based solely on the above I would have voted to pass the referendum.

However, the infusion of funds in difficult times must be matched with even more prudent fiscal management and often painful cost cutting. The present management of PSU has shown itself to be woefully inadequate in that regard. Thus I can understand why throwing more money into the pit to be squandered would upset others.

The mere fact that private donations for the project are severely lacking is quite telling. Very wealthy donors, just like the general public, don’t appreciate their money being used foolishly by incompetent individuals. I don’t believe that the economic situation caused by the pandemic is the overriding reason donations are lacking, although it is a contributing factor. Perhaps people who are concerned with recurring annual fiscal waste, no matter how much they are able to donate just feel they lack the power to correct the problem. Thus they don’t feel compelled to be complicit in its advancement. Personally that’s the way I feel, yet I still would love to see the improvements at the Lasch building occur. Hence the schizophrenic rumbling in my head, but this time I’m fairly certain that I can convince my doctors that external stupidity is the root cause of my problem.

The vast majority of us I believe just desire the best for PSU in all endeavors. Unfortunately our present senior leadership appears to be both often incompetent and devoted to a more personal self enrichment and empire building agenda. But I imagine you’ve probably heard this before from others. In any event it appears that the project will advance so be happy and don’t worry 😉.

 

[Art]

Art, I’m intrigued y this suggestion. I think it may be a step in the right direction, but would it be viable with the constraints of Title IX?

Shouldn't be a problem. Doesn't necessarily mean that varsity sports get cut. Just makes for transparency and better funding decisions.

 

[Art]

If you allotted some of the Big 10 & ESPN money to those programs, they would probably break even.

Except that the BTN and ESPN pay nothing for the broadcast rights. In fact ESPN considers it "air-time in lieu of cash" i.e. they would pay the conference more money if they didn't have to broadcast these losers.

 

[Art]

Because at the end of the day, those sports have a ton of student-athletes, most of which are paying a bunch of money in tuition because the NCAA doesn't allocate a lot of scholarships for those sports, and former student-athletes tend to be your more active and passionate alumni.

Mens and womens golf, tennis, swimming, gymnastics, and fencing combine to lose about $4M a year, and their rosters combine to have over 200 student-athletes - and, given the nature of those sports and the specialized (read: expensive) training that's required to get to the D1 level, you can wager a guess that most of those 200 student-athletes are students who come from a little bit of money. Those sports are actually pretty efficient when it comes to a "dollars spent per student athlete" perspective. Even moreso when you consider that most of the co-ed sports share the same coaching staff.

Women's basketball, to use an example, loses more money by itself ($5M) than all of the above-referenced sports combined. Women's volleyball loses $1.5M a year to support a roster of 16.

All of whom could be easily replaced by non-athletes paying full freight, without the additional expenses incurred to field these teams.

 

[Art]

And what about the Big 10? The conference has an ownership interest in the network. You don't believe the they add viewership?

What about the Big Ten?

 

[Texas Lion]

Lavar chimes in. I think this goes both for Lubrano and Jay Paterno.

LaVar Arrington takes aim at Jay Paterno over Penn State facilities vote

...

247sports.com

 

[Art]

Lavar chimes in. I think this goes both for Lubrano and Jay Paterno.

LaVar Arrington takes aim at Jay Paterno over Penn State facilities vote

...

247sports.com

Yup, Lavar is a genius, financial and otherwise. Someone should tell him that the money generated from football goes to pay for other sports before it amortizes the debt.

 

[Connorpozlee]

I dont get this line of argument. How many tens of millions does this program have to spend on football to satisfy you?

The football team had chances in 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019 to beat tOSU and Michigan AND win the B1G. It did not happen. Franklin came close, but you know the line about hand grenades and horseshoes.

An expanded playground for coaches and players will not bring the "elite" status set as the goal by Franklin. Coaching will.

Well, expanded direst booster-to-recruit payments would give us a better chance than better facilities or a better coach.

 

[PSUPride1]

Why do keep referring to us as "you people".

You people = administration, past ADs, and boards.

 

[PSU Mike]

So it is preferable that surplus generated by football goes to provide, among other things, financial aid for some who might not need it (think: golf, tennis, swimming) than re-invested in the football program or, perish the thought, to some non-athlete who otherwise could not afford a PSU education? Wonder what CJF's thoughts might be on the matter.

Good gawd yes on the subject of country club sports. Draw zero interest form anybody outside the participants, and dole out schollies and private lessons to kids that in 90% of the cases don’t need as much financial help as their classmates.

 

[heckmans]

When the women's field hockey team draws 110,000 to its games, we can talk about gender equity.

uhh...that's not what the reference to field hockey was about at all.

 

[Harrisburg Dave]

Well, expanded direst booster-to-recruit payments would give us a better chance than better facilities or a better coach.

I am done with Penn State football when that happens.

 

[Connorpozlee]

I am done with Penn State football when that happens.

I believe that it what it takes to be consistently elite.

 

[Art]

I am done with Penn State football when that happens.

So I guess Sandy can't count on you for a check? 🙂

 

[Harrisburg Dave]

Yup, Lavar is a genius, financial and otherwise. Someone should tell him that the money generated from football goes to pay for other sports before it amortizes the debt.

Lavar must that think that a quality educational institution with a world wide attraction is less attractive than a football team.

 

[Harrisburg Dave]

So I guess Sandy can't count on you for a check? 🙂

I am busted anyway.

 

[Harrisburg Dave]

I believe that it what it takes to be consistently elite.

Then ask Franklin to kick in a few million. Joe did. The elite thing is his dumb goal anyway.

 

[Texas Lion]

I tend to think if Dambly would have said this people would be furious with him. I think there are still people that give a pass to a last name....Lubrano or Paterno can do no wrong.

 

[Art]

Lavar must that think that a quality educational institution with a world wide attraction is less attractive than a football team.

Let's do a little different take on this. Eric the Fat makes his annual pilgrimage to Harrisburg to plead for a(n) (increased) state subsidy. Some legislator observes, "You know, President Fat One, people in Pennsylvania are hurting from this pandemic. They've lost jobs, lost their homes, in many cases lost loved ones. They're looking to us for help. But tax revenue is also down as a result of this pandemic and we're looking at a huge hole in the state budget at a time when our citizens and localities need more aid.

"I hear that you're spending nearly $50 million on a football training facility. $50million!!! And you have the temerity to ask us for an increased appropriation....."

Barron: "But we can afford it, sir."

State Representative: "You can afford it? I'm glad to hear that. Then you can afford a $50mm reduction in the state appropriation for this year."

 

[Harrisburg Dave]

Let's do a little different take on this. Eric the Fat makes his annual pilgrimage to Harrisburg to plead for a(n) (increased) state subsidy. Some legislator observes, "You know, President Fat One, people in Pennsylvania are hurting from this pandemic. They've lost jobs, lost their homes, in many cases lost loved ones. They're looking to us for help. But tax revenue is also down as a result of this pandemic and we're looking at a huge hole in the state budget at a time when our citizens and localities need more aid.

"I hear that you're spending nearly $50 million on a football training facility. $50million!!! And you have the temerity to ask us for an increased appropriation....."

Barron: "But we can afford it, sir."

State Representative: "You can afford it? I'm glad to hear that. Then you can afford a $50mm reduction in the state appropriation for this year."

They have been having that conversation with the Legislature for years.

Wait until they decide to play with the big boys and have a professional football team, with pay for play, the huge football buildings, and tens of millions sunk into a renovated Beaver Stadium. I am not the only one who will be raising questions at that point.

 

[Art]

They have been having that conversation with the Legislature for years.

True, but this one just might be a bit juicier.

 

[Connorpozlee]

Then ask Franklin to kick in a few million. Joe did. The elite thing is his dumb goal anyway.

You want me to ask Franklin to kick in a few million? OK, let me search through my contacts and see if I can get a hold of him.

 

[Raffycorn]

Then ask Franklin to kick in a few million. Joe did. The elite thing is his dumb goal anyway.

Didn't realize Joe paid out of his own pocket when Lasch and Holuba were built. Where'd you learn that?

I have a feeling that if Joe had kicked in for those projects out of his own pocket, Jay and Lubrano would not have hesitated to mention it.

 

[Harrisburg Dave]

They have been having that conversation with the Legislature for years.

True, but this one just might be a bit juicier.

No question. (I am now required to use that phrase every ten posts, in honor of Phil Gross.)

 

[BobPSU92]

Why do keep referring to us as "you people".

And people who look like us.

 

[BobPSU92]

So it is preferable that surplus generated by football goes to provide, among other things, financial aid for some who might not need it (think: golf, tennis, swimming) than re-invested in the football program or, perish the thought, to some non-athlete who otherwise could not afford a PSU education? Wonder what CJF's thoughts might be on the matter.

 

[Harrisburg Dave]

Didn't realize Joe paid out of his own pocket when Lasch and Holuba were built. Where'd you learn that?

I have a feeling that if Joe had kicked in for those projects out of his own pocket, Jay and Lubrano would not have hesitated to mention it.

Perhaps you have visited the Paterno Library? Joe believed a great University required a great library.

Perhaps Franklin, believing an Elite football program requires an elite football building, will follow Joe's example?

 

[Harrisburg Dave]

You want me to ask Franklin to kick in a few million? OK, let me search through my contacts and see if I can get a hold of him.

Thank you. He should be well rested after last season and willing to engage in discussion,

 

[Agoodnap]

I for one think it's great that Anthony stopped by to tell us his reasons. It appears many of you would have rather he hadn't stopped by.

 

[BobPSU92]

I for one think it's great that Anthony stopped by to tell us his reasons. It appears many of you would have rather he hadn't stopped by.

Not necessarily. People like to argue, even if they don’t know what they’re arguing about and even when they agree with the person with whom they are arguing.

 

[Raffycorn]

Perhaps you have visited the Paterno Library? Joe believed a great University required a great library.

Perhaps Franklin, believing an Elite football program requires an elite football building, will follow Joe's example?

We're talking about proposed renovations to football buildings that were constructed when Joe Paterno was the football coach - football buildings that, at the time, put Penn State at the top of the class in the facilities game. You seem to be asserting that Joe Paterno paid money out of his own pocket to pay for those buildings. If he didn't, why should Franklin be expected to?

 

[Zenophile]

Well, expanded direct booster-to-recruit payments would give us a better chance than better facilities or a better coach.

I believe that is what it takes to be consistently elite.

Then I'll settle for being occasionally elite or consistently great/good. I'm not OK with joining the proverbial Jackie Sherrills and Barry Switzers of the world.

 

[Texas Lion]

I would imagine Franklin donates plenty of money to outside of football things. Just because Paterno wanted a bigger library doesn't make what Franklin donates to less.

As for Lubrano coming on here and explaining? Kind of like Jay putting out a release. Who cares. Vote how you want to vote and live with it. I personally don't care why you did or didn't do something. I just hate that part of the world we live in. Can't just get the vaccine, you MUST post yourself with a picture of the card so everyone knows you care about others.....

Just gets old.

 

[Harrisburg Dave]

We're talking about proposed renovations to football buildings that were constructed when Joe Paterno was the football coach - football buildings that, at the time, put Penn State at the top of the class in the facilities game. You seem to be asserting that Joe Paterno paid money out of his own pocket to pay for those buildings. If he didn't, why should Franklin be expected to?

I did not "assert" that at all.

I will reference a January 24, 2012 PennLive report that states, "First and foremost, Paterno led by example. He and his wife have given the university more than $4 million for scholarships, endowed faculty positions and assorted building projects, most notably the library wing that bears their name."

Joe and his wife were also close friends of the Lasch family and they were instrumental in obtaining their financial support for the building that bears the family name.

The same article quotes that Paterno actively led two capital campaigns that raised over a billion dollars. The first came after the first MNC and raised over $300 million. Real money in those days.

Two months after Joe was fired he and his wife contributed $200,000 to the University, one of several annual six figure contributions Joe gave for programs and scholarships.

So if Franklin wants his edifice, he can chip in. Start with a significant contribution and lead a fund campaign as Joe did. Lead by example. It is not a novel concept. He contributes to things like Thon among others. Let him put up some cabbage here.

 

[Harrisburg Dave]

I would imagine Franklin donates plenty of money to outside of football things. Just because Paterno wanted a bigger library doesn't make what Franklin donates to less.

As for Lubrano coming on here and explaining? Kind of like Jay putting out a release. Who cares. Vote how you want to vote and live with it. I personally don't care why you did or didn't do something. I just hate that part of the world we live in. Can't just get the vaccine, you MUST post yourself with a picture of the card so everyone knows you care about others.....

Just gets old.

I would imagine Franklin donates plenty of money to outside of football things. Just because Paterno wanted a bigger library doesn't make what Franklin donates to less.

As for Lubrano coming on here and explaining? Kind of like Jay putting out a release. Who cares. Vote how you want to vote and live with it. I personally don't care why you did or didn't do something. I just hate that part of the world we live in. Can't just get the vaccine, you MUST post yourself with a picture of the card so everyone knows you care about others.....

Just gets old.

The man was asked for his opinion and reasons on this very site. He gave it. Imagine the audacity of the man!

 

[Connorpozlee]

Thank you. He should be well rested after last season and willing to engage in discussion,

Yeah, he’s always very engaging when we chat. This time I’ll just throw in, “Harrisburg Dave wants you throw a few millions dollars at the football program to solve the ills.” I appreciate your help with this Davey.

 

[Connorpozlee]

Then I'll settle for being occasionally elite or consistently great/good. I'm not OK with joining the proverbial Jackie Sherrills and Barry Switzers of the world.

Honestly after the way the NCAA slaughtered the program (albeit, with the board’s complicity) I don’t care what we do. If you follow all the rules and get that punishment, might as well go for the championships.

 

[Harrisburg Dave]

Yeah, he’s always very engaging when we chat. This time I’ll just throw in, “Harrisburg Dave wants you throw a few millions dollars at the football program to solve the ills.” I appreciate your help with this Davey.

Hey, I do what I can. Let's see Franklin do the same.

 

[BobPSU92]

I knew someone would argue with me about this.

No, you didn’t.

😁