If it weren't for Goony's presence in this class....

[Richard the LIONhearted]

I don't think there are any bona fide true freshmen that are guaranteed to see playing time this season. I think Wade is destined to play from Game One...I'm not sure there are too many other true
freshmen that are in that same boat. I think CJMFF could just redshirt the entire class and possibly get away with it....

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I don't think there are any bona fide true freshmen that are guaranteed to see playing time this season. I think Wade is destined to play from Game One...I'm not sure there are too many other true
freshmen that are in that same boat. I think CJMFF could just redshirt the entire class and possibly get away with it....

Who is going to be at MLB next year? Does that person get some snaps this year in anticipation of that? I could see Brooks possibly for that reason, maybe a CB like Fields as they tend to get dinged up. Phil stated maybe a Matos, but I think he will be in the yelllow light area unless people go down at DE. If that happens you could see him green lighted, but I think they will be cautious.

 

[Raffycorn]

Who is going to be at MLB next year? Does that person get some snaps this year in anticipation of that? I could see Brooks possibly for that reason, maybe a CB like Fields as they tend to get dinged up. Phil stated maybe a Matos, but I think he will be in the yelllow light area unless people go down at DE. If that happens you could see him green lighted, but I think they will be cautious.

I think the staff is hoping that Cooper is finally healthy enough to play the whole season in 2017 and to have him slide in as the starting MLB in 2018. He's kind of become the forgotten man in the linebacker rotation.

Then, 2019 is still far enough away that a number of kids - Brooks included - can naturally develop into the inside role. In any case, Pry's system seems to have quite a bit of flexibility in terms of inside/outside linebackers, and it seems like they try to train guys to be interchangeable between all three positions.

 

[Obliviax]

I think he's the only "given". I wouldn't be shocked to see Brown or Hippenhammer get some returns.

I also see some guys, potentially, make the DL rotation like YGM or Hansard. Finally, Ellis Brooks will get some time at LB since we are so thin there.

Lastly, word is that Miranda turned some heads but we are now pretty deep at OL so it would take a heck of an effort to get a lot of playing time (or injuries, Godforbid).

 

[ILLINOISLION]

They'll be a surprise breakout freshman that will get a lot of playing time this year. Just a WAG, I have no clue who, just have a very good feeling because of the higher level of talent that is coming on board.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

One other is Miranda who very well could end up in the 2 deep apparently.

 

[BBG65]

The team in 2017 is so deep and experienced compared to previous years that there just isn't much opportunity for true freshmen and that's a good thing. I'm sure a couple will play, but that's all. Wade is almost a sure thing.

 

[Pennsy_Kraken]

I don't think there are any bona fide true freshmen that are guaranteed to see playing time this season. I think Wade is destined to play from Game One...I'm not sure there are too many other true
freshmen that are in that same boat. I think CJMFF could just redshirt the entire class and possibly get away with it....

It really comes down to athletic ability and physical development relative to trFR seeing the field. In that regard, Journey Brown is as ready as any of the other trFR, so I'm not sure I totally agree....

 

[Obliviax]

They'll be a surprise breakout freshman that will get a lot of playing time this year. Just a WAG, I have no clue who, just have a very good feeling because of the higher level of talent that is coming on board.

well, interestingly, this is a bit of a new test for the staff: To see how they can mix in young players to develop them. It is a true first world problem!

 

[Raffycorn]

It really comes down to athletic ability and physical development relative to trFR seeing the field. In that regard, Journey Brown is as ready as any of the other trFR, so I'm not sure I totally agree....

I think with Brown playing in 2017 it will come down to whether the staff thinks his ability to return kicks and punts gives them a better chance at success than who they have right now that wouldn't require burning a redshirt - I think the offensive backfield in 2017 is just a little too crowded for Brown to reasonably get carries at RB. Brown, I think, will definitely be given a chance to win the job as a returner in camp - over Sanders as KR and over the relatively open slate at PR (McPhearson?). But if he doesn't win either of those jobs, I think he ends up redshirting almost by default, rather than redshirting because the staff thinks he needs to put on weight, recover from injury, etc.

 

[Richard the LIONhearted]

It really comes down to athletic ability and physical development relative to trFR seeing the field. In that regard, Journey Brown is as ready as any of the other trFR, so I'm not sure I totally agree....

Journey Brown - no way, Robinson, Sanders, Allen.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I think with Brown playing in 2017 it will come down to whether the staff thinks his ability to return kicks and punts gives them a better chance at success than who they have right now that wouldn't require burning a redshirt - I think the offensive backfield in 2017 is just a little too crowded for Brown to reasonably get carries at RB. Brown, I think, will definitely be given a chance to win the job as a returner in camp - over Sanders as KR and over the relatively open slate at PR (McPhearson?). But if he doesn't win either of those jobs, I think he ends up redshirting almost by default, rather than redshirting because the staff thinks he needs to put on weight, recover from injury, etc.

Agree. Do you burn his shirt for a KR....well...if he is that electric the answer is yes. He isn't going to get carries with the 4 there ahead of him. Hell I feel bad Allen doesn't get more snaps as that dude is a warrior. Does he have the hands and instincts to be a KR...who knows. He's a guy that I expect to shirt due to the depth chart, but also wouldn't be totally shocked if you saw him back on KR's.

 

[Pennsy_Kraken]

Journey Brown - no way, Robinson, Sanders, Allen.

Brown also played SS on defense. Brown could potentially see the field on special teams or spot-duty due to his extreme athleticism and advanced physical development.

 

[Obliviax]

Journey Brown - no way, Robinson, Sanders, Allen.

I was thinking of being a return guy, not a RB. But there are a lot of good speed guys to consider too. Polk, for one. Hippenhammer as well. I suspect J-Brown will need a year to adjust to the speed of the game. he isn't coming from a 5 a state championship program.

If we see tr Frosh starting, i see it on the DL or at LB.

 

[artsandletters]

It really comes down to athletic ability and physical development relative to trFR seeing the field. In that regard, Journey Brown is as ready as any of the other trFR, so I'm not sure I totally agree....

How far is Meadville from Erie?

 

[KC-KS-Lion]

The good news is they are finally deep enough in areas like WR, LB, and DB where redshirts don't have to be burned for the wrong reason, including making a quick decision on a player's readiness for playing time. In some cases, like LB, it creates a problem that can last years. What would the difference in payback between Bowens' redshirt and fifth year senior be?

 

[Obliviax]

The good news is they are finally deep enough in areas like WR, LB, and DB where redshirts don't have to be burned for the wrong reason, including making a quick decision on a player's readiness for playing time. In some cases, like LB, it creates a problem that can last years. What would the difference in payback between Bowens' redshirt and fifth year senior be?

your post brings to mind a lot of the pre-season talk about running the defense into the ground with our high-octane offense. We really didn't see that. With the WR being two deep across the field, I think that there is ample opportunity to run them into the ground this year. We'll see.

 

[Judge Smails]

We still don't go much beyond a two deep at linebacker. I wonder if Ellis Brooks sees the field if we lose a linebacker or two. He seems to already be at the right playing weight. We also graduate Christian Campbell and Grant Haley after this year. Wonder if Tariq Castro Fields sees some playing time? Aren't necessarily thin at that position, but if they want Fields to push for a starting spot next year, wouldn't be a bad idea to get him some playing time in '17.

This is more unlikely, but no one has the starting punt returner job locked down. Mac Hippenhammer was spectacular returning punts in high school.. Unlikely Franklin wants a freshman in that role, but if he excels in camp....maybe.

 

[GregInPitt]

I think the staff is hoping that Cooper is finally healthy enough to play the whole season in 2017 and to have him slide in as the starting MLB in 2018. He's kind of become the forgotten man in the linebacker rotation.

Then, 2019 is still far enough away that a number of kids - Brooks included - can naturally develop into the inside role. In any case, Pry's system seems to have quite a bit of flexibility in terms of inside/outside linebackers, and it seems like they try to train guys to be interchangeable between all three positions.

Yep. I agree that Brooks redshirting is almost guaranteed. And that Cooper, or possibly Johnson or Bowen, will begin the 2018 season as the starting MLB, with Brooks fighting for playing time initially and that if Brooks sets the world on fire he could nose his way into the starting job by late in the season or when/if injuries occur.

But from the 2018 class of incoming LB's, who's to say that Franklin may not be the better MLB prospect once they get to campus and begin competing for playing time and depth chart position.....

It's just great to see depth begin to build up at LB......

Other than Wade, I don't believe we will see other true freshmen DB's play this year. In addition to those normally in the discussion of the DB depth chart and fighting for playing time and the open starting Safety position, we have waiting in the wings:
- McPherson (CB) got great reviews upon his arrival at PSU.
- Taylor is transitioning to Safety and is reportedly very talented.
- Johnson (CB) showed talent and size in the B/W game
Just no need to play more true freshmen DB's.....

As someone mentioned, I see the next (after Wade) possible true freshmen playing being Matos. Our DE playing time is up for grabs, with both starters gone and other than Brown and Miller no scholarship DE's with any game experience (Costagna, walk on reportedly will get some PT). Yes there are redshirt freshmen that were acclaimed out of H.S. that will be fighting for PT, but if Matos is as good as CJF has said, DE is a position where the need to keep players fresh and the need to put QB's on their A$$'s may put Matos in the fray........

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I don't see Brooks as almost guaranteed, but a possibility to have a shirt lifted. I think the staff would probably love to shirt him, but they also need to look to the future if they think he has a shot at winning the spot next year. If that is the case they may consider getting him reps this year.

 

[VaNtyLion]

One of the reasons so few freshman figure into the depth chart right now for 2017 is the job the staff has done accumulating depth the past few years in the now sophomore/junior classes.

Think position by position and where there may be a need for a true freshman to step up in the here and now -

QB? No
RB? No
WR? No
TE? No
OL? No

DL? No
LB? Most thin position for depth so probably an opportunity for Brooks
S? No
CB? Opening created by Reid injury opens door for Wade

It's hard to sell early playing time right now for PSU

 

[GregInPitt]

Brown also played SS on defense. Brown could potentially see the field on special teams or spot-duty due to his extreme athleticism and advanced physical development.

He could if he was needed. But there are many redshirt freshmen such as Johnson (CB) that can fill that roll and that have been practicing for a year to do just that. I believe it very unlikely that Brown plays special teams unless he is a clear home run kickoff returner, in the mold of Blair Thomas....

 

[GregInPitt]

I don't see Brooks as almost guaranteed, but a possibility to have a shirt lifted. I think the staff would probably love to shirt him, but they also need to look to the future if they think he has a shot at winning the spot next year. If that is the case they may consider getting him reps this year.

He'll more than likely get his reps in practice and on the foreign team.....

 

[LaJolla Lion]

He'll more than likely get his reps in practice and on the foreign team.....

Or if they see him starting next year...on the field this year on special teams and reps. I'm not saying he won't shirt, but he's one that could end up playing this year. Even more so if any injuries occur at MLB.

 

[Raffycorn]

I still think that if a linebacker's redshirt is burned, it will be Faison-Walden just because he's been on campus for spring ball - and even then I think it only would happen if injuries demand it. They're not going to be burning redshirts to have kids play on the kickoff team and only get a handful of snaps at linebacker.

 

[GregInPitt]

Or if they see him starting next year...on the field this year on special teams and reps. I'm not saying he won't shirt, but he's one that could end up playing this year. Even more so if any injuries occur at MLB.

I just do not believe that staff projects the next year's starters, as you imply. Cooper will likely be back in 2018 (could decide to move on) and it would not be surprising to see an OLB move to MLB as has been done frequently. I am more inclined to believe the staff strictly redshirts based on the current year's potential contribution to this year's wins, and CJF has stated as much. Getting a few actual game snaps is not that much of an advantage, especially given that We have such a solid 3 deep at MLB for 2017 (Cabinda, Smith, Cooper). Brooks, coming from H.S., will get plenty of development in practice and on the foreign team this year.

It would take 2 MLB's going out of an extended period for there to be a legit reason to play Brooks in 2017. And that would also depend on if he is really ready. Brown was not really ready when he was forced to play in 2016, but we have greater depth this year, and a move of one of the OLB's in side would be another option to deal with 2 MLB's getting hurt.

 

[GregInPitt]

I still think that if a linebacker's redshirt is burned, it will be Faison-Walden just because he's been on campus for spring ball - and even then I think it only would happen if injuries demand it. They're not going to be burning redshirts to have kids play on the kickoff team and only get a handful of snaps at linebacker.

And the fact that Faison-Walden plays outside, where the depth chart is not as solid as it is inside (Cabinda, Smith, Cooper)..... We may even see Cabinda and Cooper play outside some this year due to the depth at MLB....

 

[Obliviax]

One of the reasons so few freshman figure into the depth chart right now for 2017 is the job the staff has done accumulating depth the past few years in the now sophomore/junior classes.

Think position by position and where there may be a need for a true freshman to step up in the here and now -

QB? No
RB? No
WR? No
TE? No
OL? No

DL? No
LB? Most thin position for depth so probably an opportunity for Brooks
S? No
CB? Opening created by Reid injury opens door for Wade

It's hard to sell early playing time right now for PSU

I agree with exception on the DL. I think the rotation will be three deep. Will a Fr start? Not if we don't have catastrophic injuries. But I can see some guys rotating in with the talent we have on the fr team. But to the rest of your point, agree that there aren't a lot of positions open besides LB and CB. We may see some guys returning kickoffs. Punts typically go to a more senior person, given the risk of muffs and decision making requirements. But I can see a mature Fr back there like Wade if he earns it.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I just do not believe that staff projects the next year's starters, as you imply. Cooper will likely be back in 2018 (could decide to move on) and it would not be surprising to see an OLB move to MLB as has been done frequently. I am more inclined to believe the staff strictly redshirts based on the current year's potential contribution to this year's wins, and CJF has stated as much. Getting a few actual game snaps is not that much of an advantage, especially given that We have such a solid 3 deep at MLB for 2017 (Cabinda, Smith, Cooper). Brooks, coming from H.S., will get plenty of development in practice and on the foreign team this year.

It would take 2 MLB's going out of an extended period for there to be a legit reason to play Brooks in 2017. And that would also depend on if he is really ready. Brown was not really ready when he was forced to play in 2016, but we have greater depth this year, and a move of one of the OLB's in side would be another option to deal with 2 MLB's getting hurt.

Do you remember last year when you told me McGovern would not start? You were emphatic about it...how did that work out? I'm not sure why you think you have the absolute answer on this, but I know you don't nor do I. Good coaches are always thinking ahead and I don't think they like to talk about it, but they aren't idiots. You apparently have a higher opinion of some players than I do, but again I won't be shocked either way. Brooks is a guy that could be in play this year. We have no idea on what he will do once he arrives. He could fall flat on his face and have a long way to go or he could be a guy that shoots up the depth chart. A legit reason to play in 2017 is you are better of the guys ahead of you...this isn't 1974 and the best kids will get on the field. Time will tell on this one. I'm not the only one who feels he has an outside shot to play either.

 

[psuro]

So, is the staff going to double redshirt Menet?

 

[Pennsy_Kraken]

He could if he was needed. But there are many redshirt freshmen such as Johnson (CB) that can fill that roll and that have been practicing for a year to do just that. I believe it very unlikely that Brown plays special teams unless he is a clear home run kickoff returner, in the mold of Blair Thomas....

Not so sure of that.... Today's coaches realize that they will only have their very best athletes for 4 years, and in many situations only 3 due to the change in the NFL Draft rules. If the coaches don't believe they will ultimately have JB, or any of the other athletes, for 5 years, they will get them "game experience" as quickly as they can via opportunities that present themselves during the season....that way they will be more game ready to play when the current starter moves on. Franklin has commented on this topic many times - he does not "plan" on having access to kids for 5 years in the current environment....he will likely only have his absolute best athletes for 3 or 4 years tops, so you need to get them "up-to-speed" and experienced via live game action quickly so you are not completely wasting one of the years they are going to be with the program.

 

[GregInPitt]

Do you remember last year when you told me McGovern would not start? You were emphatic about it...how did that work out? I'm not sure why you think you have the absolute answer on this, but I know you don't nor do I. Good coaches are always thinking ahead and I don't think they like to talk about it, but they aren't idiots. You apparently have a higher opinion of some players than I do, but again I won't be shocked either way. Brooks is a guy that could be in play this year. We have no idea on what he will do once he arrives. He could fall flat on his face and have a long way to go or he could be a guy that shoots up the depth chart. A legit reason to play in 2017 is you are better of the guys ahead of you...this isn't 1974 and the best kids will get on the field. Time will tell on this one.

No absolute answers from me, as you believe you have.....

Exactly, we have no idea and won't see practices either.

Legit reasons to you may not be legit reasons to CJF.....

 

[LaJolla Lion]

No absolute answers as you believe you have.....

Exactly, we have no idea and won't see practice either.

Legit reasons to you may not be legit reasons to CJF.....

I had this same discussion last year about McGovern and you stated since Bates shirted...no way does McGovern play and you were just as bullish on that. Phil had an article just this week about 4-5 frosh that will play...hint besides Wade...Brooks was listed. I had posted a thread this week about who could see time besides Wade and a few chimed in with Brooks and I get it. You have 2 seniors and a guy that didn't light it up in his limited time last year before getting injured. Being older doesn't make you a starter in college football anymore.

Read this...Brooks is a guy that I won't be surprised if he plays. It's a fair statement to make. That is all.

 

[Raffycorn]

Do you remember last year when you told me McGovern would not start? You were emphatic about it...how did that work out? I'm not sure why you think you have the absolute answer on this, but I know you don't nor do I. Good coaches are always thinking ahead and I don't think they like to talk about it, but they aren't idiots. You apparently have a higher opinion of some players than I do, but again I won't be shocked either way. Brooks is a guy that could be in play this year. We have no idea on what he will do once he arrives. He could fall flat on his face and have a long way to go or he could be a guy that shoots up the depth chart. A legit reason to play in 2017 is you are better of the guys ahead of you...this isn't 1974 and the best kids will get on the field. Time will tell on this one. I'm not the only one who feels he has an outside shot to play either.

McGovern was also an early enrollee, which the staff has said is something they place a huge emphasis on when evaluating whether to play a guy as a true freshman.

Brooks - like all the true freshmen - is absolutely going to be given an opportunity to go out and take playing time from someone else in training camp. But I think that the general operating procedure for true freshmen is that they're on track for a redshirt until their play on the practice field or injuries force their hand otherwise. I'd love for Brooks' redshirt to be burned if it means he tore it up at training camp - I just am skeptical right now that that will happen (which isn't saying anything negative about Brooks' ability or potential, just recognizing how difficult it is for true freshmen to steal playing time from established players higher on the depth chart).

 

[Pennsy_Kraken]

No absolute answers from me, as you believe you have.....

Exactly, we have no idea and won't see practices either.

Legit reasons to you may not be legit reasons to CJF.....

Exactly, you hit the nail on the head in your earlier post....CJF is likely to play his very best and most developed athletes so that they will be even better and more ready to play as "starters" next year. The reason is quite simple - no coach believes they will have their very best athletes for 5 years.....they will be lucky to have them 4! If you are potentially only going to have an athlete for 3 years, why are you going to waste one of those years when you can sporadically play them getting them live "game experience" to make the necessary adjustments and "learning function" to the speed and athletes of a DIA game, which is radically different than the HS game??? If the staff believes someone is athletically and physically "ready", they will attempt to pick some spots to get them in a game for the "learning experience" - they don't want them having this "learning experience" as a starter in future years!

 

[LemonEars]

I don't think there are any bona fide true freshmen that are guaranteed to see playing time this season. I think Wade is destined to play from Game One...I'm not sure there are too many other true
freshmen that are in that same boat. I think CJMFF could just redshirt the entire class and possibly get away with it....

I'd love to see Wade get a pic6 against the pitters. That would be sweet.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

McGovern was also an early enrollee, which the staff has said is something they place a huge emphasis on when evaluating whether to play a guy as a true freshman.

Brooks - like all the true freshmen - is absolutely going to be given an opportunity to go out and take playing time from someone else in training camp. But I think that the general operating procedure for true freshmen is that they're on track for a redshirt until their play on the practice field or injuries force their hand otherwise. I'd love for Brooks' redshirt to be burned if it means he tore it up at training camp - I just am skeptical right now that that will happen (which isn't saying anything negative about Brooks' ability or potential, just recognizing how difficult it is for true freshmen to steal playing time from established players higher on the depth chart).

I can name quite a few true frosh LB's prior to CJF being here that made their way on to the field...one even very late in the year in Sean Lee. Poz was out there in game 4-5 IIRC. I'm not saying Brooks can't redshirt or will be a starter this year....but I think he has a shot to see the field this year. That could be on Special teams and mop up duty...and maybe more as the year goes on. Bottom line is I don't want to pile on anyone, but I don't think next years MLB was playing or injured last year. Just a guess there though.

 

[ClarkstonMark]

One of the reasons so few freshman figure into the depth chart right now for 2017 is the job the staff has done accumulating depth the past few years in the now sophomore/junior classes.

Think position by position and where there may be a need for a true freshman to step up in the here and now -

QB? No
RB? No
WR? No
TE? No
OL? No

DL? No
LB? Most thin position for depth so probably an opportunity for Brooks
S? No
CB? Opening created by Reid injury opens door for Wade

It's hard to sell early playing time right now for PSU

I would say TE Yes, but are there any TE this class?

 

[ClarkstonMark]

McGovern was also an early enrollee, which the staff has said is something they place a huge emphasis on when evaluating whether to play a guy as a true freshman.

Brooks - like all the true freshmen - is absolutely going to be given an opportunity to go out and take playing time from someone else in training camp. But I think that the general operating procedure for true freshmen is that they're on track for a redshirt until their play on the practice field or injuries force their hand otherwise. I'd love for Brooks' redshirt to be burned if it means he tore it up at training camp - I just am skeptical right now that that will happen (which isn't saying anything negative about Brooks' ability or potential, just recognizing how difficult it is for true freshmen to steal playing time from established players higher on the depth chart).

Trying to say this without being too harsh on a player, but Brooks does not need to light it up to pass Cooper on the depth chart, and if he does, it is very possible that he plays this year.

 

[Raffycorn]

I would say TE Yes, but are there any TE this class?

How so? Gesicki is the established starter in a system that primarily plays with one tight end on the field. Holland had a great spring and looks like the primary backup, and then Bowers is coming off of injury, Dalton comes off a redshirt year, and Pancoast was the primary blocking backup last year. TE looks wide open for 2018 when Gesicki leaves, but we look pretty set coming into 2017.