Don't get me wrong - I'd love to see Brooks get on the field and have him end up as a multi-year starter at MLB.
If it weren't for Goony's presence in this class....
- Thread starter Richard the LIONhearted
- Start date
I think TE depth depends on the health of Bowers, but Holland would figure to be a very viable option at the TE spot. Pancoast was serviceable in his limited time last year so not sure I see the TE spot as one of urgent need for depth this year...and as you noted, there aren't any options in the true freshman class that would figure in here regardless, although a RS freshman like Dalton at 6'4"/247 may be intriguing option too.
You have one AA candidate and 4 backups.
I personally don't love any of the 4 backups - that is why I made my post.
Yep, it's easy to talk about McGoven now that we know what happened. And he stepped into a mess of an OL just looking for help But that does not keep me from believing it would be in the best interest of the team if Brooks can redshirt. Sure, 4-5 freshmen may play, as PSU has better depth, but not optimal depth. Especially at OLB and DE.
Yep, Brown will be a better player this year after having been thrown into the fray last year. But there is now doubt that CJF would rather have redshirted Brown last year. He has stated such. CJF is on record as wanting to build a program that can redshirt very good players - because he has depth across the board position wise. That, in combination with the fact that PSU is 3 deep at MLB (i.e. if Cooper plays MLB) is why in the case of Brooks I believe he will redshirt. And I believe CJF will want to redshirt him. And I believe your suggestion that CJF would want to get him snaps to groom him for being the 2018 MLB starter is B.S.
Will I be surprised if Brooks does not redshirt? Very surprised unless there are significant injuries at LB.
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Cooper has not exactly lit it up so far at PSU. But part of that resume, in my opinion, is that a good bit of his PT was during a true freshmen year when he was forced to play before he was ready, in combination with a number of injuries he reportedly had and having played while hurt.
Is he fully healthy now, and will he be really ready to show the talent he was blessed with coming out of H.S. this Fall?? No one here can really say....
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To date none of the backup TE's has had enough playing time for me to form an opinion. I did attend the B/W game and Holland had a very good showing. The fact that Bowers was ahead of Holland before Bowers got hurt tells me that Bowers must also have some talent. Will Bowers be fully healthy going into this coming Fall practice and season? Who knows. It's even earlier to make a judgement on Dalton. He was very light coming to PSU and I would not expect him to be physically ready to play B10 TE by this coming Fall. Look at how much work Gesicki put in to get to where he is at, and obviously he was a dominant H.S. player. He also dropped quite a few balls before he became recognized as a star. I'm not going to criticize the underclassmen TE's until they get a real chance to develop and show what the can do............
There was a feature on Cooper here 2 weeks ago; sounded encouraging
https://bwi.rivals.com/news/cooper-ready-for-his-return-
“There's a couple of guys that really are going to need to play, and that's Cam Brown, that's Brandon Smith and to me, that's Jake Cooper,” said Pry in an interview this week at his office. “Jake's a guy that's finally healthy I think.”
...."Now, another year older with an unspecified injury that appears to be in his rearview mirror, Pry is expecting the former Rivals.com three-star prospect to again make an impact in some capacity in the season ahead.
“Jake's been kind of an enigma. He does some things really well, but there were some real weaknesses in his game, and I think he's kind of at a point that I think he's ready to play his best football,” said Pry. “He's ready to kind of be the linebacker that he can be, take some big steps that way. He's had an injury that he's overcome, he's gotten bigger, he's gotten stronger, he's learned the defense and I think he's as hungry as he's ever been to show people that he can play linebacker here.”
Brown weighed 200 pounds at 6-5 last year...Brooks is already at 230+ pounds. CJF is also on the record wanting kids to get their degree in 3 years and saying the best players will play. He has also shown that over and over again at pretty much every position. Bowen would be a better example...special teams early on and then on to the field. If they stay 100% healthy, maybe he shirts....but that gives me a ton of heartburn about MLB next year. Let's put it like this of all the kids you think will get redshirts for frosh...he is further down the list than most.
The best players will be looking to go pro after 3 years, and I think we'll see more of that as the overall talent level is on the rise. I'm not sure it's a problem but it does suggest playing the best players as true freshmen, which is what Alabama and Ohio State have been doing more of.
It can be tricky -- I don't think I can identify with certainty who in the Class of 2017 would be NFL ready in 3 years. More likely there will be some in the 2018 class.
There is always a fine line of rushing a kid but also prepping a kid who you see at a player in the very near future. Some kids simply develop later, some are ready sooner, and sometimes depth will force your hand. In this case I see a hole at MLB next year and I'm suggesting that they may want to get him on to the field this year if they think he can handle it. It's not etched in stone, but he certainly one kid that "could" be on the field this year. Smart kid, big kid....so we'll see.
Significant injuries? Brooks is one injury away from being backup and two away from starting. There are ALWAYS injuries.
There was a great article in the Sunday paper about tOSU recruiting. Basically, they go after five stars telling them they have to compete to play in the NFL. And that starts with beating out upper classmen who are also four and five stars. And if it doesn't work out, they stay five years and get a good education. Either way, they play in at least on BCS championship series to showcase their talents.
These kids want to play in the NFL. tOSU and AL are the pipeline to the NFL and first round kids; they've established that. Penn State, especially coming off sanctions, doesn't have that history for kids that are only 17 years old. They were 11 when Joe Paterno was last on the sidelines. Last year was the only major bowl they ever saw PSU play in that they can remember. The 2006 Orange Bowl and they were only ~6 years old.
CJF is getting us there, but it takes time.
You guys sound like Ohio State fans. And I mean that in a positive sense. This is the kind of preseason discussion Ohio State has had the luxury of having for the last umpteen years. Good players queued up at every spot. Nobody plays before they're ready. Even super talented recruits typically train and practice for a couple years before they play as redshirt sophs. I've almost forgotten what it's like to be a Top 10 program.
Really? Count to 4 and then start subtracting....
1. Cabinda
2. Smith
3. Cooper
4/???. Brooks (and he has yet to even "win" the 4th team on the depth chart....)
AND we don't know that CJF might see Bowen as his 4th team MLB. Or 3rd team for that matter. Come October and an injury or injuries to MLB(s), we don't know that the young OLB's, early entry Faison-Walden and/or others such as Miller, might be ready to play and allow Bowen to move to MLB.
Right now Brooks isn't even on the "chart"......
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Good points.
But even at oh-high-ya there are players that redshirt and then just explode and become NFL players. Didn't a couple of their recent 1st round DB draft choices redshirt, compete to start, then start for only 1 year before becoming 1st or 2nd round draft choices? Hooker and others....?
Bowen can only play ONE position at a time. Listing a starter at more than one position on the depth does not work.
Brooks is on the chart as much as Cooper is on the chart. JF's depth charts are window dressing anyway. AS soon as there is an injury he shifts players around and plays the best players.
PSU will probably have 4 or 5 freshman that play from the incoming class, not 1 or 2.
Tell that to CJF. He has listed starters as backups at other positions every year he has coached at PSU and it has worked pretty well so far. It has occurred at LB, OL.... during CJF's tenure...
Saying that Brooks is on the chart as Cooper is the stupidest "thought" so far in this thread. Cooper has played and started games at PSU, and as reported by Pry (see above post) is now healthy, addressed some of his shortcomings, and is ready to play. On the other hand, Brooks has not practiced once at PSU and Pry and not even evaluated him in practice to see what his shortcomings are, let alone having time to address them once they are identified......
Did my post have a number that MAY play this year?
No.
You are responding to the wrong post.....
Not responding to the wrong post.... PSU will have more freshman playing than you or OP have stated. Some of the freshman who play will simply be physically and athletically ready to contribute, so the staff will selectively get them game time early in the season so they can adapt to the DIA game-speed (which is significantly faster than High School) and are more prepared to play at "crunch time" late in the year as well as next year, etc...
True but as soon as there was an injury he tossed the depth chart and had to play a walk on at LB. The same goes for OL. Go back and look at last year's opening day LB depth chart and tell me where Smith and Johnson were listed.
Listing starters as backups creates holes at MULTIPLE positions when that starter goes down. That is why PSU had to play walk ons at LB last year. How many games before they had to start last year? Week 3?
Brooks will play this year. It is just a matter of time. Crossing your fingers and hoping for 0 injuries does not work in football.
You act like you are talking to CJF or somehow hold more knowledge on the matter. It's odd how you consider the MLB depth chart done for the season already, but run with it.
Voltz is Gunsie-ish/WallaceBreen.
Notice the upper case MULTIPLE and expressing opinions as FACT.
Not surprised there. I'm certainly not citing him and I went down this rabbit hole last year with Gregg. To say any kid at LB is a definite shirt is a stretch and even more so the most physically ready one.
I don't care if it's Guns or not. Leopard never changes its spots.
As far as LBs, I don't have an opinion. I do have an observation. None of the true freshmen have played a down yet. We don't know who's up to playing at the Power 5 level. Time will tell.
More than 1 frosh at PSU in 2017 will play and one at LB won't be a shock. JMO, but I guess you cannot speculate about frosh playing with this site. It's a different conversation elsewhere or on the Den.
There's nothing wrong with speculation. It can be fun. I do it with recruiting. Once they're on the field it all changes. I just like to wait and then enjoy a surprise like Windsor (though I really liked his video and he did RS) It's true that Brooks already has the size. BFW is on the light side. Franklin hasn't played much LB lately. I suppose it depends on where the need is, if there is one, which one is shining in camp, and how Cooper looks.
"PSU will...."
Have you replaced CJF as coach of PSU?
Thank goodness, no....
But it would not surprise me to see 4 or 5 true freshmen play in 2017. It's just that other than Wade at CB, there are really no positions that have a great need for depth. So Fall practice, as well as the impression that the 4 early enrollee's made, will determine if any additional true freshmen play out of the gate. And barring very significant injuries at a particular position it will take some real head turning in practice to get a true freshman on the field. And the true freshmen, unless they make the depth chart out of the box, usually all play on the foreign team during the season.
As talented and highly acclaimed as JJ was coming out of H.S., as physically mature that he was when he arrived at PSU, and the fact that CJF told us that he may play during his true freshman year, he was redshirted.
It will surely be interesting to see how many true freshmen CJF green lights coming into the first game, and to see how many of the "yellow lights" actually end up seeing the field during the year. That seems like about all we can agree on..........
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That was last year. PSU has better depth at LB and particularly on the OL this year.
Smith was. Johnson was not. Last year's LB injuries, clustered together at the beginning of the year, are not likely to be repeated at PSU. Ever. The lack of depth is obviously why Johnson had to play. Smith had earned a scholarship last year so was he really a walk on LAST year?
Brooks seems to be a great prospect. But he was not even in the staff''s priorities until they lost the MLB commit. And PSU now has at least 3 MLB's coming back with game experience. 4 if you count Johnson.
If we lose Cabinda or Smith for the year, I still don't see Brooks playing. You believe Brooks will play as soon as the first LB gets bumped up? Not likely.
Faison-Walden is more likely to play in 2017 than Brooks.
Who said "any kid at LB is a definite shirt is a stretch and even more so the most physically ready one"? Not me.
I have just said that I don't believe Brooks will not play unless there are catastrophic injuries at LB. The LB depth is much better this year than it was last year, or the year that Cooper played as a true freshman.
Because Books is listed at 230 that makes him the most physically ready? That's quite an assumption. Faison-Walden has a big advantage having participated in not only Spring practice, but also the Winter conditioning program as well as getting a further jump on the incoming freshmen by being in the S&C program between the B/W game and the arrival of the freshmen (this week?).
Greg
One "G" at the beginning, and one "g" at the end..........
GreG with one G. I think I'll bump the McGovern thread tomorrow. Maybe you'll see a theme.
While we are on the subject, PL has their opinion as well..... They mention Hansard, but we seem to have lots of DT depth, and Jordan and Shelton also will be trying to get into the rotation.....
http://www.pennlive.com/pennstatefo...e_football_2017_summe.html#incart_river_index
http://www.pennlive.com/pennstatefo...e_football_2017_summe.html#incart_river_index
That way of thinking is so 19th century... to compete today in CFB, you need to play the best athletes as soon as they are ready and you can recruit better athletes by showing them that the better athletes will play as true freshmen if they are prepared to do so and beat out the guys with seniority. This builds competitiveness and then everyone strives to get better individually and the team is therefore better as a whole. Of course, you still will have to redshirt some of the class, but my point is that an entire class being redshirted would be a HUGE red flag as opposed to a positive.
So true and you could bet other coaches would say...you can go there and shirt or come here and play. You can't shirt a whole class in college football anymore...just is not how it works. It's an antiquated view to be honest.
Well, the only way even the best freshman athletes "get better" and make the necessary adjustments to the college game from the high school game is via playing time.... IOW, the notion that a freshman player has reached their maximum potential, and doesn't need development, the day they walk onto campus is just not how it works. If the staff believes a player is very close to being able to make positive contributions when they arrive, the staff will selectively get them game experience early in the season so they will make the necessary adjustments and corrections and be ready to make bigger contributions during "crunch time" late in the year and into the following years. Coaches are not going to RS a player that they will only likely have for 3 years total or 4 at the most.....RS your absolute best and most physically developed athletes just does not make sense due to the fact that you are probably not going to have them 5 years, so the quicker you can get them "ready" to make bigger contributions, the sooner you can get them on the field for more significant playing time.
The better depth is coming from TRUE FRESHMAN who you say won't play. There were ZERO redshirted scholarship LBs last season. Last season PSU played 5 LBs that were not originally on the depth chart. The problem was not the number of injuries at LB. The real problem was depth. Two injuries in and PSU was going to walk ons.
The better depth is coming from Brown and the other young players they played last year, and who wouldn't have played last year had there not been so many injuries.
And Cooper, who is returning from an injury.
And from Miller, who switched positions, has been practicing at LB, is now LB size, and reportedly is ready NOW to contribute on the field as a LINEBACKER.
That was last year. This is this year....
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