Jax Forrest Thread

[nerfstate]

over last 5 classes, number of top 10 commitments (according to Matscouts)
PSU: 10
OKST: 8
tOSU: 6
IOWA: 4
UM: 3

Top 10 in their weight/graduating classes isn't really what I'm talking about though. I'm talking top of the top. Age level world gold medalists (or close to it--add in your odd late bloomer like Carter).

No, maybe Michigan hasn't had as many of those--but I think their RTC is attractive enough to those types of guys. Maybe Cornell should be #2. But I appreciate your quantitative approach. So feel free to add up the age-level gold/silvers by school for us to compare ;-)

 

[wrestlingfan22]

Top 10 in their weight/graduating classes isn't really what I'm talking about though. I'm talking top of the top. Age level world gold medalists (or close to it--add in your odd late bloomer like Carter).

No, maybe Michigan hasn't had as many of those--but I think their RTC is attractive enough to those types of guys. Maybe Cornell should be #2. But I appreciate your quantitative approach. So feel free to add up the age-level gold/silvers by school for us to compare ;-)

I agree with you that Michigan and Cornell are likely the top competitors with PSU but it isn't like Cael has missed out on many kids he wanted recently. Off the top of my head I can only think of Mendez to tOSU, Shapiro and Knox to Cornell and maybe like Figs or someone else that is slipping my mind who was a top talent. And even with Shapiro/Knox/Mendez there wasn't an obvious spot for them at PSU. Obviously talent is talent and it would have worked out but I thought that was pretty crazy. I will look at age-level gold/silvers but it is going to be a whole lot of PSU lol

 

[El-Jefe]

I agree with you that Michigan and Cornell are likely the top competitors with PSU but it isn't like Cael has missed out on many kids he wanted recently. Off the top of my head I can only think of Mendez to tOSU, Shapiro and Knox to Cornell and maybe like Figs or someone else that is slipping my mind who was a top talent. And even with Shapiro/Knox/Mendez there wasn't an obvious spot for them at PSU. Obviously talent is talent and it would have worked out but I thought that was pretty crazy. I will look at age-level gold/silvers but it is going to be a whole lot of PSU lol

It's hard to say who Cael really wanted without saying "he didn't want them if they went elsewhere" -- but your list is a good start.

Here are some of the better guys Cael did recruit, who committed elsewhere.

2021: Figueroa, Cael Valencia, Poulin
2022: Bouzakis, Crookham, Mendez, Berge, Rogers
2023: Shapiro, Mullen, McGowan
2024: Neves, possibly Hopke
2025: Knox, Correa, Rath, Gaj, Bambinelli, Sahakian

Mendez, Figs, and Crookham are the biggest misses. And yet somehow PSU has scraped by without them. Probably because Cael gets a lot of top guys, and the rest scatter.

 

[wrestlingfan22]

Going by HSers who made finals at u17 or u20 worlds before their freshman year of college and what school they were at as a true freshman in college.
U20 Team:
2024: Lilledhal, and Ryder to PSU, Lockett to OKST, *Cortez to Cornell
2023: Lilledhal to PSU, Shapiro to Cornell
2022: Volk to Wyoming, MM to Cal Baptist (Transfer to PSU), Berge to SDSU, Kueter to Iowa
2021: Amos to Wisconsin
2020: Covid
2019: Yonger Batisda to ISU (Cuban idk if he really counts)
2018: Brooks to PSU, Z. Elam to Mizzou,

Cadet Team:
2024: No Finalists have committed yet
2023: Lockett to OKST, Blaze and Kenny TBD (Raney* TBD Also)
2022: Lilledahl, Sealy, Kasak to PSU, Castillo to ISU, Hopke to Minny, Adams* to UM, Forrest TBD, Munaretto TBD
2021: See 2022, 2023, 2024 for LL, Shapiro to Cornell, Rowley to Wisco (Transfer to Purdue), Mullen to VT, *Land to UNI
2020: COVID
2019: McGowan to Princeton
2018: Figs to ASU, Ramos to Minnesota (Transfer to Purdue), Kervliet to tOSU (also commited to Minny and OKST) (Transfer to PSU)

So over the last 6 age group world level championships, number of people that were age group world finalists before college by school
PSU: 5
ISU: 2 (Counting Yonger so really 1)
Minny: 2 (Ramos left so effectively 1)
Wisco: 2 (Rowley left so effectivey 1)
Conrell: 2 (Cortez*)
OKST: 1
tOSU: 1 (Never wrestled for them effectively 0)
Cal Baptist: 1 (Left, effectively 0)
Wyoming: 1
Mizzou: 1
SDSU: 1
Iowa: 1
UM: 1*
UNI: 1*
VT: 1
Princeton: 1

*Greco

Let me know if I missed anyone it is definitely possible. Really all this shows is there is PSU then everyone else is about the same in terms of bringing in age group world finalists. Also something about Bono wasting talent and Minny being underrated in terms of recruitment

 

[wrestlingfan22]

It's hard to say who Cael really wanted without saying "he didn't want them if they went elsewhere" -- but your list is a good start.

Here are some of the better guys Cael did recruit, who committed elsewhere.

2021: Figueroa, Cael Valencia, Poulin
2022: Bouzakis, Crookham, Mendez, Berge, Rogers
2023: Shapiro, Mullen, McGowan
2024: Neves, possibly Hopke
2025: Knox, Correa, Rath, Gaj, Bambinelli, Sahakian

Mendez, Figs, and Crookham are the biggest misses. And yet somehow PSU has scraped by without them. Probably because Cael gets a lot of top guys, and the rest scatter.

Good catch on some of these. Crookham completely slipped my mind, he also had a weird end to his HS career because of injuries. Mullen and Neves I just forgot about. I was going to include McGowan but couldn't remember when he committed vs when Davis did. Bouzakis I also meant to include.

 

[diggerpup]

He should pass that list on to Bo, likely accurate to 90%+, cut to the chase.

10 schools is still a bit silly IMO

10 schools is a much better list than the 3,174 schools Bassett is still stuck on.

 

[dicemen99]

Going by HSers who made finals at u17 or u20 worlds before their freshman year of college and what school they were at as a true freshman in college.
U20 Team:
2024: Lilledhal, and Ryder to PSU, Lockett to OKST
2023: Lilledhal to PSU, Shapiro to Cornell
2022: Volk to Wyoming, MM to Cal Baptist (Transfer to PSU), Berge to SDSU, Kueter to Iowa
2021: Amos to Wisconsin
2020: Covid
2019: Yonger Batisda to ISU (Cuban idk if he really counts)
2018: Brooks to PSU, Z. Elam to Mizzou,

Cadet Team:
2024: No Finalists have committed yet
2023: Lockett to OKST, Blaze and Kenny TBD (Raney* TBD Also)
2022: Lilledahl, Sealy, Kasak to PSU, Castillo to ISU, Hopke to Minny, Adams* to UM, Forrest TBD, Munaretto TBD
2021: See 2022, 2023, 2024 for LL, Shapiro to Cornell, Rowley to Wisco (Transfer to Purdue), Mullen to VT, *Land to UNI
2020: COVID
2019: McGowan to Princeton
2018: Figs to ASU, Ramos to Minnesota (Transfer to Purdue), Kervliet to tOSU (also commited to Minny and OKST) (Transfer to PSU)

So over the last 6 age group world level championships, number of people that were age group world finalists before college by school
PSU: 5
ISU: 2 (Counting Yonger so really 1)
Minny: 2 (Ramos left so effectively 1)
Wisco: 2 (Rowley left so effectivey 1)
OKST: 1
Cornell: 1
tOSU: 1 (Never wrestled for them effectively 0)
Cal Baptist: 1 (Left, effectively 0)
Wyoming: 1
Mizzou: 1
SDSU: 1
Iowa: 1
UM: 1*
UNI: 1*
VT: 1
Princeton: 1

*Greco

Let me know if I missed anyone it is definitely possible. Really all this shows is there is PSU then everyone else is about the same in terms of bringing in age group world finalists. Also something about Bono wasting talent and Minny being underrated in terms of recruitment

I count 7 who ended up at PSU
Ryder
Lilledahl
MM
Brooks
Sealey
Kasak
Kerk

 

[El-Jefe]

Good catch on some of these. Crookham completely slipped my mind, he also had a weird end to his HS career because of injuries. Mullen and Neves I just forgot about. I was going to include McGowan but couldn't remember when he committed vs when Davis did. Bouzakis I also meant to include.

Neves belongs but was probably someone who more recruited PSU than the other way around. That "soft verbal" and saying he would continue looking at other schools ... Cael was probably interested, but not exclusively so.

 

[Ski]

Micic has more gold medals than the entire Hawkeye Wrestling Club roster combined.

Parris and Coon have both won multiple USA Trials, and Pantaleo and Dieringer have both been top 5 internationally.

Micic shows that you don't have to let 8 years in college go to waste.

 

[a_mshaffer]

Top 10 in their weight/graduating classes isn't really what I'm talking about though. I'm talking top of the top. Age level world gold medalists (or close to it--add in your odd late bloomer like Carter).

No, maybe Michigan hasn't had as many of those--but I think their RTC is attractive enough to those types of guys. Maybe Cornell should be #2. But I appreciate your quantitative approach. So feel free to add up the age-level gold/silvers by school for us to compare ;-)

i think a natty champ at each weight in the past xx years is unreal!

 

[McScoreley]

This is going to sound like another "Cael doesn't lose anyone, we just decide we don't want them" excuse but context on a few of the misses:

Rumors I heard was Figs was all but a Nittany Lion but could never visit because of COVID. If we got him, do we get Lilledahl? I like that trade (seems blasphemous to say since he was the national champ but Luke's ceiling is clearly higher and not getting Figs never cost us any title, though my lord imagine his points last year)

Mendez yes, definitely Cael wanted him and we missed. Cael waited a bit too late there (similar with Keegan O'Toole) but it's very likely it doesn't make a difference anyways, that was a tremendous get by Tom Ryan.

Shapiro - Cael opted for Kasak at the end. Is it a miss? Sure, we absolutely recruited him. Had nothing to do with talent obviously but more to do with scholarship considerations. Shapiro commanded a full (and it was offered after Cadet Worlds but he waited and Kasak was emerging and was able to be had for a lot less) that would have almost certainly cost us a top 2023, 2024 kid (or multiple)

Cael obviously doesn't have a 100% hit rate (despite the fact it feels like it) and he casts a wide net since his track record sells itself and so many wrestlers and parents are more than willing to make some financial sacrifices for the opportunity. But ultimately, we're not recruiting apples to apples here. A lot of times Cael has nowhere near a full to offer a kid. I know another example of an AA (with eligibility left) that turned PSU down because the wrestler was offered a greyshirt then partial scholarship compared to a full elsewhere.

 

[SWPA]

There is a big difference between wanting a recruit and needing one. All the other teams need who they get and more. PSU doesn't need any one recruit.

 

[El-Jefe]

This is going to sound like another "Cael doesn't lose anyone, we just decide we don't want them" excuse but context on a few of the misses:

Rumors I heard was Figs was all but a Nittany Lion but could never visit because of COVID. If we got him, do we get Lilledahl? I like that trade (seems blasphemous to say since he was the national champ but Luke's ceiling is clearly higher and not getting Figs never cost us any title, though my lord imagine his points last year)

Mendez yes, definitely Cael wanted him and we missed. Cael waited a bit too late there (similar with Keegan O'Toole) but it's very likely it doesn't make a difference anyways, that was a tremendous get by Tom Ryan.

Shapiro - Cael opted for Kasak at the end. Is it a miss? Sure, we absolutely recruited him. Had nothing to do with talent obviously but more to do with scholarship considerations. Shapiro commanded a full (and it was offered after Cadet Worlds but he waited and Kasak was emerging and was able to be had for a lot less) that would have almost certainly cost us a top 2023, 2024 kid (or multiple)

Cael obviously doesn't have a 100% hit rate (despite the fact it feels like it) and he casts a wide net since his track record sells itself and so many wrestlers and parents are more than willing to make some financial sacrifices for the opportunity. But ultimately, we're not recruiting apples to apples here. A lot of times Cael has nowhere near a full to offer a kid. I know another example of an AA (with eligibility left) that turned PSU down because the wrestler was offered a greyshirt then partial scholarship compared to a full elsewhere.

Crookham was another. Apparently we were very close to landing him, and he decided on Lehigh very late in the process. It happens.

 

[BrockBronson]

Is anyone as elite as Jax going to choose the Mich coaching staff over the staffs at PSU, OSU, and tOSU? I just find that hard to believe. His NIL offer would have to be 2x or 3x other schools to get him there.

The unintended consequences of hiring a team of transfers through NIL is that it gives an impression to everyone (including HS kids and parents) that the coaching staff isn't getting it done. I'm looking at you Michigan and Iowa.

I agree with this as well! Iowa for sure is in trouble. Michigan solid RTC but don’t develop kids like psu. They seem to develop kids like Pantaleo, Amine, Paris. All good coming out of Hs but not top 5 guys! Their focus on Cliff Keen has to be something Jax, Bo and Blaze are looking at. They must have unlimited money cause they keep buying wrestlers. Ohio State as well wins the recruiting trophy every year but Peter out in the big moments

 

[BrockBronson]

As far as developing wrestlers: PSU is second to none. Who would you guys ranked, staff wise developing wrestlers
Top 5